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2020 General MLB off-season

Mo Horn

By Mo Horn
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ss13
ss13

I will personally thank the very first player to kneel solely for this...     

Player
Player

Am I taking crazy pills? Mr. “thin blue line” cop defender himself is crying about injustice? The same arrogant fuckface who assured everyone that HPD and Art fucking Acevedo’s actions in the Harding

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34630

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Constant said:

Jesus. You Astro fans have your head so far in the sand it’s unreal. The video I posted above is after Verlander was traded to the Astros. As are tons of other videos of the banging. I’m glad you think they all of the sudden just grew a conscience and stopped cheating after he arrived, but everyone else knows they continued it into 2018 and 2019. 
 

 

I agree some of the defenses are getting dumb, but so is some of this mob research. For example, first thing I looked at relative to this reddit post was this:

It's included in the above post as evidence that the Astros were looking at their bullpen in right center to get signals during the World Series. Except Altuve clearly checks the third baseman before the pitch, you know, like has been done a million times in baseball history.

Then one of the Springer videos where he supposedly glances to right center before every pitch he is clearly looking at the first baseman and runner.

Everyone is being dumb right now.

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Constant

Constant 6886

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1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

I agree some of the defenses are getting dumb, but so is some of this mob research. For example, first thing I looked at relative to this reddit post was this:

It's included in the above post as evidence that the Astros were looking at their bullpen in right center to get signals during the World Series. Except Altuve clearly checks the third baseman before the pitch, you know, like has been done a million times in baseball history.

Then one of the Springer videos where he supposedly glances to right center before every pitch he is clearly looking at the first baseman and runner.

Everyone is being dumb right now.

Right. The whistling and possible signaling from the bullpen are going to be impossible to prove. Tons of people like to whistle at games. And whats in a quick glance? But at the same time, I don’t believe they just up and stopped something that was working for no reason but out of the goodness of their hearts. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Constant said:

Right. The whistling and possible signaling from the bullpen are going to be impossible to prove. Tons of people like to whistle at games. And whats in a quick glance? But at the same time, I don’t believe they just up and stopped something that was working for no reason but out of the goodness of their hearts. 

All the reports say they thought it wasn't effective which is why they stopped.  So why continue to do something that isn't working?

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34630

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8 minutes ago, Constant said:

Right. The whistling and possible signaling from the bullpen are going to be impossible to prove. Tons of people like to whistle at games. And whats in a quick glance? But at the same time, I don’t believe they just up and stopped something that was working for no reason but out of the goodness of their hearts. 

Yeah, the "was working" thing is arguable. 

Don't get me wrong, the cheating part isn't arguable. But the effectiveness isn't really borne out by the results. I wish they hadn't cheated, but this will blow over. Nobody says anything after they talk about The Shot Heard 'Round the World other than the Giants lost the World Series after that. Multiple known cheaters are in the Hall of Fame (scuffing the ball, PEDs, pine tar on glove, corked bats, etc.). People have been cheating at baseball for as long as they've been playing baseball. Doesn't make it right, and they should all be punished in some way. But that's the truth.

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Constant

Constant 6886

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1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

All the reports say they thought it wasn't effective which is why they stopped.  So why continue to do something that isn't working?

Well forgive me for not taking the word of the Astros organization that has lied about this topic and others recently. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6274

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3 hours ago, Iceman said:

And the Yankees can lead the way by vacating anything Aroid and Roger Clemens were part of.

Rules were knowingly broken, right?

your position is one of convenience.

Go for it. I'll explain this again for you. I go to see the Yanks play because it is a short train ride from mid-town and because my mom is a lifelong fan. I could not care any less if they want to take the titles away when those two clowns were cheating.

My favorite player as a kid was McGwire. Knowing he was one of the biggest steroid users ruins the memories I had of him. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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Just now, UpperWestside said:

Go for it. I'll explain this again for you. I go to see the Yanks play because it is a short train ride from mid-town and because my mom is a lifelong fan. I could not care any less if they want to take the titles away when those two clowns were cheating.

My favorite player as a kid was McGwire. Knowing he was one of the biggest steroid users ruins the memories I had of him. 

Two clowns?

Bless your heart.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

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25 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Fiers popped of the first shot in a circular firing squad.  

I think what's really amazing about all of this is that Passan wrote a column back in 2018 about sign-stealing that detailed 4 different teams accusing the Astros and even mentioned the trash can banging.  And the commissioner's office twice did investigations that "cleared" the Astros, investigations that were apparently of comparable rigor to an SEC school investigating its boosters for paying its football players.  

Why is Manfred not being called on the carpet for his (at best) complete inaction at stopping this early or (at worst) his tolerance of this stuff?

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-red-sox-warned-indians-astros-attempting-steal-signs-information-032027336.html

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I think what's really amazing about all of this is that Passan wrote a column back in 2018 about sign-stealing that detailed 4 different teams accusing the Astros and even mentioned the trash can banging.  And the commissioner's office twice did investigations that "cleared" the Astros, investigations that were apparently of comparable rigor to an SEC school investigating its boosters for paying its football players.  

Why is Manfred not being called on the carpet for his (at best) complete inaction at stopping this early or (at worst) his tolerance of this stuff?

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-red-sox-warned-indians-astros-attempting-steal-signs-information-032027336.html

Because the entire league is full of cheaters and he knows it. They don't want to pick at that scab because it will reveal a culture that is neck deep in doing whatever it takes to get a competitive advantage.

Anyone who believes otherwise is kidding themselves.

Something tells me Mike Fiers isn't all that popular around baseball these days.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

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Lulz...

Quote

In his 1989 autobiography edited by Ira Berkow, Hank Greenberg: The Story of My Life (Times Books), published three years after the slugger’s death, Greenberg freely admitted to stealing signs beginning in early September of 1940 and credits that as one main reason Detroit won the pennant.

How it came about is rather unbelievable.

Greenberg said that the day after Tommy Bridges had pitched, the great Tiger hurler was sitting in the left field upper deck of Briggs Stadium with his hunting buddy, the injured third baseman Pinky Higgins. Bridges was holding a new rifle he had purchased that had a telescopic lens and when he looked through it at the catcher he could read the signs. (Something tells me that you will never again hear of or see a baseball player, let alone a fan, pointing a rifle towards home plate……at least I hope not.)

Here is how Hammerin Hank explained it:

“The next day we decided to test his (Bridges) ability to read the pitches and sure enough he sat up in the stands with Pinky. When the pitch was signaled for a fastball or a curveball, they had arranged a predetermined signal to relay it to the batter. It didn’t have to go to the coaches or the bench; it went directly to the batter. Strangely enough, you could look right over the shoulder of the pitcher and look out there in the stands and see the signal.”

Greenberg went on to explain that the team brought one of the minor league managers into Detroit and he sat up in the upper deck with binoculars where he gave the signals. Even when the stands were full Greenberg said the players knew exactly where he was sitting and could pick up the signs.

Greenberg said the two players who refused to use the signs were Charlie Gehringer and Gerald Walker and the two who profited most were Hank and fellow home run hitter Rudy York.

“I think the record will bear it out,” wrote Greenberg. “As I remember, between the two of us we hit one or two home runs for seventeen consecutive days during the month of September. Either Rudy would hit one, or I would hit one, or sometimes we would each hit two. I think it was picking up those signs that were instrumental in enabling us to win that 1940 pennant.”

Greenberg went on to write that “sign stealing is a fascinating aspect of the game.”

“I’m sure it goes on with other ball clubs. I know it went on with the Cleveland Indians in 1948, and in 1959 when I was with the White Sox (front office) and we won the pennant in Chicago. We stole the signs from the center field scoreboard and I’m sure a lot of other ball clubs do the same. As a matter of fact, it’s been rumored that the Yankees were stealing signs from their centerfield scoreboard for years. I know that they had a lot of success against Bob Feller. A lot of the hitters who didn’t figure to hit Feller had good records against him, and I’m sure they were helped by knowing what was being pitched to them.”

 

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ss13

ss13 1832

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Posted (edited)

Cue the classic Fiers McHugh gif... 

Quote

Longtime major league outfielder Carlos Gomez plans to retire once his season in the Dominican Winter League wraps up, Rolando E. Fermin of La Neuva 106.9 FM reports.

Gomez’s big league career began and ended with the Mets. He debuted in the league in 2007 as a highly touted youngster, but the Mets traded Gomez to the Twins in a package for then-superstar left-hander Johan Santana in the ensuing offseason. Gomez’s tenure with the Twins also proved to be short-lived, though, as they dealt him to the Brewers in a trade for shortstop J.J. Hardy in November 2009.

Gomez didn’t truly blossom until he got to Milwaukee, and he plans to retire as a member of the organization, according to Fermin. He posted star-level production at times as a member of the Brewers, with whom he slashed .267/.325/.452 and amassed 87 home runs and 152 stolen bases across 2,576 plate appearances from 2010-15. Gomez was especially outstanding from 2013-14, a 1,234-PA span in which he batted .284/347/.491, swatted 47 homers, swiped 74 bags and ranked seventh among position players in fWAR (12.4).

Unfortunately, Gomez’s output dropped off a cliff after his career-best two-year run. The Brewers traded Gomez (and sign-stealing whistleblower Mike Fiers) to the Astros in a 2015 blockbuster, which came after an attempt by the Mets to re-acquire him fell through. The Gomez pickup proved to be a failure for Houston, which released him in 2016 after he fell flat in an Astros uniform. Gomez wound up staying in Texas that year, though, as the Rangers took a low-cost flier on him that worked out well for them. He stayed with the Rangers the next season and once again recorded respectable production, but he was ineffective as a member of the Rays in 2018 and once again struggled in a Mets homecoming last year.

All told, the 34-year-old Gomez will end his MLB career a .252/.313/.411 hitter who totaled 145 HRs, 268 steals and 24.9 fWAR in 5,227 trips to the plate. He earned two All-Star nods and made just under $50MM in his playing days, according to Baseball-Reference. MLBTR wishes Gomez the best in retirement.

 

Edited by ss13
Wrong whitey
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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18 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Lots of current MLB players starting to rip the Astros on social media the past 24 hrs. I never thought I’d see the day when the Astros were baseball’s most hated team. Would be interesting to see if there’s an uptick in brawls this season.

It's a remarkably small number. That should tell you something.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34630

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This thing might not end for a while. Baseball players and managers have been cheating any way they can for well over a century. There's almost no way that the Astros, Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs (the 5 accused by some baseball folks this week) are the only 5 teams who used technology to cheat as soon as MLB was dumb enough to put video feeds in or next to the dugout.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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32 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This thing might not end for a while. Baseball players and managers have been cheating any way they can for well over a century. There's almost no way that the Astros, Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs (the 5 accused by some baseball folks this week) are the only 5 teams who used technology to cheat as soon as MLB was dumb enough to put video feeds in or next to the dugout.

Of course it's not just those teams. MLB tried to make scapegoats out of the Astros and Red Sox to try to make it go away.

Oops.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23047

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Lots of current MLB players starting to rip the Astros on social media the past 24 hrs. I never thought I’d see the day when the Astros were baseball’s most hated team. Would be interesting to see if there’s an uptick in brawls this season.

Aside from autistic pitchers in Cincinnati, the talk had been almost nonexistent until the buzzer accusations arose. Critical thinking would then lead me to believe that the “banging scheme” (or the concept behind it) may not be all that unusual among teams/players across the league.
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

What is the evidence against the Yankees, Dodgers, or Cubs? Or is this simply a case of Astros fans wanting others to be guilty to ease their own guilt?

Player accusations, just like Fiers. MLB has thus far not decided to investigate. 

It's obvious that the use of technology to gain a competitive advantage is a league wide issue. 

Also, why would a fan feel any guilt whatsoever?

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23047

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Posted
Please post specific sources where a current MLB player has claimed the Cubs, Dodgers, or Yankees are using technology to steal signs.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871359-logan-morrison-so-many-mlb-teams-cheat-using-video-names-yankees-dodgers

 

Weird how this got less publicity than a fake niece, right?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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Posted
2 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Please post specific sources where a current MLB player has claimed the Cubs, Dodgers, or Yankees are using technology to steal signs.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-logan-morrison-rob-manfred-yankees-astros-20200114-jzmuib45gbbnpjkqb4rmdf4mfe-story.html?outputType=amp

“I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs.”

 

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3296

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-logan-morrison-rob-manfred-yankees-astros-20200114-jzmuib45gbbnpjkqb4rmdf4mfe-story.html?outputType=amp

“I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs.”

 

This is a vague Instagram post (which has since been deleted) by a player who has no direct connection to any of the teams he accused. He provides no specifics other than to say he knows from first hand accounts.

Meanwhile, the original report on the Astros was a story written by Ken Rosenthal that cited not only Mike Fiers but also 3 other people from within the Astros organization who chose to remain anonymous. Fiers gets the blame by Astros fans because he was willing to out himself as the whistleblower, but there were multiple sources and they gave very specific information on how the cheating was performed. This was not a single social media post that was later deleted. If you haven't yet read the story, you can do so here:

https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/

The MLB then conducted an investigation that included multiple sources from within the Astros organization who gave very similar reports. Some of those were Astros players who admitted their own guilt. If you haven't read the report, you can do so here:

https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf

I'm sure there will be reports of other teams cheating in similar ways, and it's entirely possible that more teams are actually guilty of it. If the Yankees, Cubs, or Dodgers are guilty, then they should also be investigated with similar punishments if the evidence shows they were guilty. That being said, there is a HUGE difference in the evidence against the Astros and Red Sox compared to any single social media post that has surfaced regarding another team. 

I know every Astros fan would like a broader investigation that implicates all 30 teams, but that's highly unlikely to be the case. Teams were complaining about this prior to the Ken Rosenthal story, and a lot of those complaints were directed at the Astros specifically. Teams don't complain about something they are also guilty of. You didn't see Sammy Sosa trying to out Mark McGwire for being a cheater. That's not how cheaters operate. The fact that teams were getting angry about this shows you that at least a few teams had some integrity.

Edited by wild_turkey
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

I know every Astros fan would like a broader investigation that implicates all 30 teams, but that's highly unlikely to be the case. Teams were complaining about this prior to the Ken Rosenthal story, and a lot of those complaints were directed at the Astros specifically. Teams don't complain about something they are also guilty of. You didn't see Sammy Sosa trying to out Mark McGwire for being a cheater. That's not how cheaters operate. The fact that teams were getting angry about this shows you that at least a few teams had some integrity.

Right. It's unlikely because the league knows it's a league-wide issue. Baseball is built upon a culture of cheating. It always has been.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23047

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Posted

“Please post specific sources where a current MLB player has claimed the Cubs, Dodgers, or Yankees are using technology to steal signs.”

*multiple people post a specific source where a current player claims the Cubs, Dodgers, or Yankees are using technology to steal signs*

“Okay yeah but here’s 5,000 words about why it’s not the same”

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Helobious

Helobious 9818

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Posted

Astros fans having a very hard time accepting that their team was the worst offender here. That team has been morally bankrupt in just about every way possible ever since Luhnow took over. It’s fitting to see their run end like this. They’ll be fighting for a wild card spot next year now that they can’t cheat anymore, and will fall entirely back into irrelevancy after that. 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23047

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Posted
Astros fans having a very hard time accepting that their team was the worst offender here. That team has been morally bankrupt in just about every way possible ever since Luhnow took over. It’s fitting to see their run end like this. They’ll be fighting for a wild card spot next year now that they can’t cheat anymore, and will fall entirely back into irrelevancy after that. 

 

 

source.gif

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Astros fans having a very hard time accepting that their team was the worst offender here. That team has been morally bankrupt in just about every way possible ever since Luhnow took over. It’s fitting to see their run end like this. They’ll be fighting for a wild card spot next year now that they can’t cheat anymore, and will fall entirely back into irrelevancy after that. 

Your team cheated its way to its last five championships.

Get a grip.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Evidence? Maybe stick to your pointless political crusades & forget about sports.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/mitchell/index.jsp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_named_in_the_Mitchell_Report

You'll recognize a lot of names: Clemens, Pettitte, Knobloch, Giambi, Justice, Stanton. You can add Alex Rodriguez to the list.

 

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