2020 General MLB off-season

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, naija said:

There are enough players who have made their marks in baseball and had no direct conflict with the Astros who have come out and expressed their anger/disgust and explained why, that if you don't understand why players, not fans or the media, are pissed off about it, then you likely never will. Do Mike Trout or Bryant strike you as shit-stirrers for the heck of it? You will also notice that most of these comments are coming after  the attempt at apology/non-apology by the Astros. I think the noise from the players would have been dying down, not increasing at this point if there was any sense of real contrition on the part of the Astros.

It was sign stealing.

Boo hoo.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

It was sign stealing.

Boo hoo.

It’s more than sign stealing. Quit being disingenuous about what exactly y’all did.

[David Dennison 18,922]

6 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

It’s more than sign stealing. Quit being disingenuous about what exactly y’all did.

No, it was sign stealing. That's all it was.

[txhorns 2,409]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Questions about this scandal....

 

Why is this such a big deal? Why do people want this title vacated? How is this "cheating" when you could totally negate it by just constantly changing your signals? Is that how it works?

 

Why are the Dodgers crying so hard? Do they think the Astros were still cheating in 2019? If they were, then doesn't that make the Nats one of the great teams of all time? Or were they just a lot less lazy about changing their signals? If Altuve was wearing a buzzer, and the whole team is in on the cheating, why would he have to remind everyone not to rip his shirt off?

 

Do people honestly believe that the Astros were the only ones engaging in such behavior?

 

If the Astros were cheating in 2017 but not 2019 then that proves that they were good enough to win it without cheating. But if they were still cheating in 2019 and the Nats still beat them then that proves that either whatever cheating they were doing either wasn't that effective, or that the Nats were doing it too....

It's a big scandal because they cheated and were the champions.  The World Series went to game 7, so they likely don't win without cheating.  Why would they continue to cheat if it didn't work?  Anyone who has played baseball knows that if you know what pitch is coming you have a much greater chance of hitting it.

The Dodgers are pissed because the cheating directly cost them a championship.  Would you not also be pissed?

No one truly believes that the Astros were the only team doing this.  We just don't and won't ever know how widespread it was.  Likely only a few teams at most, not the entire league as Astro fans would have you believe.  The Astros seem to have been the dumbest and most obvious about it, though.  

The 2019 Astros were better than the 2017 Astros.  Both teams were good enough on talent alone to win a championship though.  The two biggest instigators of the cheating, Beltran and Cora, were gone by 2019.  That probably played a big role in their cheating being stopped, if it actually did.

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, txhorns said:

It's a big scandal because they cheated and were the champions.  The World Series went to game 7, so they likely don't win without cheating.  Why would they continue to cheat if it didn't work?  Anyone who has played baseball knows that if you know what pitch is coming you have a much greater chance of hitting it.

The Dodgers are pissed because the cheating directly cost them a championship.  Would you not also be pissed?

No one truly believes that the Astros were the only team doing this.  We just don't and won't ever know how widespread it was.  Likely only a few teams at most, not the entire league as Astro fans would have you believe.  The Astros seem to have been the dumbest and most obvious about it, though.  

The 2019 Astros were better than the 2017 Astros.  Both teams were good enough on talent alone to win a championship though.  The two biggest instigators of the cheating, Beltran and Cora, were gone by 2019.  That probably played a big role in their cheating being stopped, if it actually did.

But in the end, it was sign stealing. An offense as old as the sport.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

1 hour ago, Bevo VIII said:

I’m shocked the players they investigated did not bring this up. Shocked I tell ya

Gerrit Cole, Will Harris, Wade Miley, Jake Marisnick, and Robinson Chirinos are all gone from the 2019 Astros team.  I'm sure they were all interviewed by the league with promised immunity and anonymity, just like the rest of the team.  Chirinos went back to the Rangers after 1 year, and along with Cole as a Yankee would have had incentive to mention any buzzers if they were aware (especially the 3 pitchers, who would not have been in a position to use them and thus not worried about implicating themselves.)  Yet Manfred said not a single person verified the buzzers.   It now appears to be probably a bogus accusation.

Edited February 17, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Skipper 6,136]

1 hour ago, naija said:

There are enough players who have made their marks in baseball and had no direct conflict with the Astros who have come out and expressed their anger/disgust and explained why, that if you don't understand why players, not fans or the media, are pissed off about it, then you likely never will. Do Mike Trout or Bryant strike you as shit-stirrers for the heck of it? You will also notice that most of these comments are coming after  the attempt at apology/non-apology by the Astros. I think the noise from the players would have been dying down, not increasing at this point if there was any sense of real contrition on the part of the Astros.

Yeah, I value Huston Street's opinion just a tad more than the douchebag Astros fans/Correa's bitch ass trying to justify or trivialize what went on.

[David Dennison 18,922]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yeah, I value Huston Street's opinion just a tad more than the douchebag Astros fans/Correa's bitch ass trying to justify or trivialize what went on.

Sign stealing is trivial, so what do you expect? 

[Beau Vine 54,252]

2 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Well you're probably not an idiot or an arlington fan, so it's hard to understand.

aggy

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

1 hour ago, naija said:

There are enough players who have made their marks in baseball and had no direct conflict with the Astros who have come out and expressed their anger/disgust and explained why, that if you don't understand why players, not fans or the media, are pissed off about it, then you likely never will. Do Mike Trout or Bryant strike you as shit-stirrers for the heck of it? You will also notice that most of these comments are coming after  the attempt at apology/non-apology by the Astros. I think the noise from the players would have been dying down, not increasing at this point if there was any sense of real contrition on the part of the Astros.

 

All this.  The anger and/or disappointment from players directly goes against the "everybody did/does it" or "its not a big deal" theories.

 

[Pam Cummings 9,645]

1 hour ago, txhorns said:

It's a big scandal because they cheated and were the champions.  The World Series went to game 7, so they likely don't win without cheating.  Why would they continue to cheat if it didn't work?  Anyone who has played baseball knows that if you know what pitch is coming you have a much greater chance of hitting it.

The Dodgers are pissed because the cheating directly cost them a championship.  Would you not also be pissed?

No one truly believes that the Astros were the only team doing this.  We just don't and won't ever know how widespread it was.  Likely only a few teams at most, not the entire league as Astro fans would have you believe.  The Astros seem to have been the dumbest and most obvious about it, though.  

The 2019 Astros were better than the 2017 Astros.  Both teams were good enough on talent alone to win a championship though.  The two biggest instigators of the cheating, Beltran and Cora, were gone by 2019.  That probably played a big role in their cheating being stopped, if it actually did.

I very highly doubt that they considered what they were doing as "cheating". Sign stealing is allowed. They probably justified it as something everyone was doing. And again, something that can be counteracted/neutralized by simply constantly changing your signals.

 

And really, this is another situation where the rules of baseball are dumb. Yeah, sign stealing is allowed, but not if you use electronics! 

 

So fuckin stupid. Just say sign stealing isn't allowed. Then when people get caught doing it there is no confusion about it.

[David Dennison 18,922]

35 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

All this.  The anger and/or disappointment from players directly goes against the "everybody did/does it" or "its not a big deal" theories.

The vocal handful of players who have expressed anger and/or disappointment should tell you just how overblown the media and fan reaction really is.

[wild_turkey 3,166]

Just say sign stealing isn't allowed. Then when people get caught doing it there is no confusion about it.

The MLB updated their sign stealing policies in 2017 and notified all teams of the rules prior to the postseason. The Astros continued to violate those rules. That’s called cheating. There is no confusion. Even the Astros knew they were cheating.

[David Dennison 18,922]

5 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

The MLB updated their sign stealing policies in 2017 and notified all teams of the rules prior to the postseason. The Astros continued to violate those rules. That’s called cheating. There is no confusion. Even the Astros knew they were cheating.

 

What are you gonna do?

[clapclapclap 9,000]

53 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

The anger and/or disappointment from players directly goes against the "everybody did/does it" or "its not a big deal" theories.

I tend to agree, except that some seem to be barking as cover for their earlier cheating.  Rather galling to hear the Yankees cry about it when they were caught using electronic devices in 2016.  Some players and former players have specifically mentioned teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, and Dodgers as also being involved in various cheating schemes this decade.  It seems like Cashman and the Yankees are more mad that the Astros didn't quit particular methods of cheating at the same time that the Yankees quit (or switched to something else.)

I LOLed this weekend hearing Cashman bitching about unfair competition.  This is the GM with the highest revenues that allows for the highest potential payroll in a league with unequal revenue sharing and no salary cap.  Sure, that's a little different, because unlike cheating, everyone knows the uneven playing field going in,.  But c'mon dude.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by clapclapclap

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

He has spoken.

https://es.pn/37yOum5

TEMPE, Ariz. -- Mike Trout has played 55 games at Minute Maid Park in Houston since his rookie season in 2011, but said he didn't remember hearing any trash can banging when he met with the media on Monday morning. He recalled hearing something of more significance.

"I noticed the banging on the bat," Trout said. "It just feels like they weren't missing pitches." 

Trout, the Los Angeles Angels center fielder who is widely considered the face of baseball, joined the long list of established major league players taking pointed shots at the Houston Astros, who have been tainted by the cheating scandal that might have helped them secure the 2017 World Series championship.

Trout's Angels weren't impacted by the Astros' sign-stealing methods during the postseason, but as a division rival that plays them nearly 20 times each season, they might have been among those most affected.

"It's sad for baseball," Trout said. "It's tough. They cheated. I don't agree with the punishments, the players not getting anything. It was a player-driven thing. It sucks, too, because guys' careers have been affected, a lot of people lost jobs. It was tough. Me going up to the plate knowing what was coming -- it would be pretty fun up there."

Trout, 28, a three-time American League MVP, wouldn't venture a guess as to what his batting average would look like if he knew which pitch was coming. "But it would be fun," he repeated. Trout said a few members of the Astros reached out personally to explain what happened, but it didn't sound as if that was good enough.

"I lost some respect for some guys," Trout said. "... All the stuff coming out, it's tough to see."

Anthony Rendon also reported to his new team Monday, but the Angels' new $245 million third baseman was more circumspect in his thoughts on the Astros, his hometown team. Rendon's Washington Nationals beat Houston in the World Series last year.

"Even when I watched their games over the previous years, it was suspicious," Rendon said. "It looked weird. They were (sitting) on balls that were very tough pitches, and just the way that they were playing the game. They're all talented players. I love those guys over there, especially what they've done in my city of Houston to help us out. But it definitely raises a lot of question marks, watching those games."

[TonyTexas 10,515]

Lulz. 

 

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

He has spoken.
https://es.pn/37yOum5
TEMPE, Ariz. -- Mike Trout has played 55 games at Minute Maid Park in Houston since his rookie season in 2011, but said he didn't remember hearing any trash can banging when he met with the media on Monday morning. He recalled hearing something of more significance.
"I noticed the banging on the bat," Trout said. "It just feels like they weren't missing pitches." 
Trout, the Los Angeles Angels center fielder who is widely considered the face of baseball, joined the long list of established major league players taking pointed shots at the Houston Astros, who have been tainted by the cheating scandal that might have helped them secure the 2017 World Series championship.
Trout's Angels weren't impacted by the Astros' sign-stealing methods during the postseason, but as a division rival that plays them nearly 20 times each season, they might have been among those most affected.
"It's sad for baseball," Trout said. "It's tough. They cheated. I don't agree with the punishments, the players not getting anything. It was a player-driven thing. It sucks, too, because guys' careers have been affected, a lot of people lost jobs. It was tough. Me going up to the plate knowing what was coming -- it would be pretty fun up there."
Trout, 28, a three-time American League MVP, wouldn't venture a guess as to what his batting average would look like if he knew which pitch was coming. "But it would be fun," he repeated. Trout said a few members of the Astros reached out personally to explain what happened, but it didn't sound as if that was good enough.
"I lost some respect for some guys," Trout said. "... All the stuff coming out, it's tough to see."
Anthony Rendon also reported to his new team Monday, but the Angels' new $245 million third baseman was more circumspect in his thoughts on the Astros, his hometown team. Rendon's Washington Nationals beat Houston in the World Series last year.
"Even when I watched their games over the previous years, it was suspicious," Rendon said. "It looked weird. They were (sitting) on balls that were very tough pitches, and just the way that they were playing the game. They're all talented players. I love those guys over there, especially what they've done in my city of Houston to help us out. But it definitely raises a lot of question marks, watching those games."

“Who the fuck is mike trout? Fucking nobody needs to keep his mouth shut he doesn’t know shit about baseball. Fuck him, World Series champs 2017, we didn’t cheat” - Astros Fans(baseball aggy)

[David Dennison 18,922]

3 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Lulz. 

 

Or they can just keep yelling at clouds. That seems to be working.

[ss13 1,832]

About as well as your hundreds of posts repeating the same shit. Will be great when actual games are played & we never see your handle again. 

[David Dennison 18,922]

2 minutes ago, ss13 said:

About as well as your hundreds of posts repeating the same shit. Will be great when actual games are played & we never see your handle again. 

Are you going somewhere?

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

We can all agree that Manfred sucks, right?  Really, really sucks?

 

 

[Guadaloopy 10,973]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Lulz. 

 

[Carl Spackler 3,486]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

No, it was sign stealing. That's all it was.

Are you being deliberately disingenuous or are you really that stupid?

[closetohumping 17,445]

Houston Buckeyes

[David Dennison 18,922]

9 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Are you being deliberately disingenuous or are you really that stupid?

The former. Because that's how serious this is, meaning it isn't.

It's sign stealing. That's why the Astros got a slap on the wrist from the commissioner. It doesn't warrant anything more and the overreaction to this whole affair is laughable.

[Beau Vine 54,252]

2 hours ago, CowtownHorn said:

Me [Trout] going up to the plate knowing what was coming -- it would be pretty fun up there."

That's a pretty fucking frightening thought.

[Beau Vine 54,252]

nm

Edited February 17, 2020 by Beau Vine

[Zepol87 9,188]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The former. Because that's how serious this is, meaning it isn't.

It's sign stealing. That's why the Astros got a slap on the wrist from the commissioner. It doesn't warrant anything more and the overreaction to this whole affair is laughable.

First problem here is using anything Manfred did to help your case. He is a clown

Edited February 17, 2020 by Zepol87

[Beau Vine 54,252]

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Lulz. 

 

What Marly didn't tell us is that the player suggesting this punishment was Justin Verlander.

[closetohumping 17,445]

On 2/13/2020 at 3:04 PM, Bevo VIII said:

Astros Fans = aggy

Ohio St Astros

[David Dennison 18,922]

8 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

First problem here is using anything Manfred did to help your case. He is a clown

Nothing anyone else is doing is hurting it. It's a whole bunch of whining from butthurt fans.

[Js1 85,387]

14 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

What Marly didn't tell us is that the player suggesting this punishment was Justin Verlander.

 

"well, if they're going to win 95-105 games anyway, we may as well spot then 81."  - some dumbass idiot in Marly's head

[Helobious 9,461]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Nothing anyone else is doing is hurting it. It's a whole bunch of whining from butthurt fans.

The most butthurt fanbase in all of this is the Astros fanbase, and you’re leading the charge. No one is whining and complaining about any of this more than you.

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

The most butthurt fanbase in all of this is the Astros fanbase, and you’re leading the charge. No one is whining and complaining about any of this more than you.

LOL. You mad.

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Nothing anyone else is doing is hurting it. It's a whole bunch of whining from butthurt fans.

[closetohumping 17,445]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

LOL. You mad.

The Astros thread is full of saltiness.  You guys are angry.

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

The most butthurt fanbase in all of this is the Astros fanbase, and you’re leading the charge. No one is whining and complaining about any of this more than you.

[David Dennison 18,922]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

The Astros thread is full of saltiness.  You guys are angry.

Everybody's angry. It's great. 

The best part is, there's nothing you can do about it.

Edited February 17, 2020 by David Dennison

[closetohumping 17,445]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Everybody's angry. It's great. 

The best part is, there's nothing you can do about it.

There's nothing I need to or want to do about it?  I love y'alls "alright it's us against them, this one's for Melanie" attitude.  Have at it.  Everyone's laughing at you though and there's nothing you can do to change perception.  You look like cheating fucks.  Well, cuz you are.

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

There's nothing I need to or want to do about it?  I love y'alls "alright it's us against them, this one's for Melanie" attitude.  Have at it.  Everyone's laughing at you though and there's nothing you can do to change perception.  You look like cheating fucks.  Well, cuz you are.

So what? 

[closetohumping 17,445]

Just now, David Dennison said:

So what? 

The one time you guys were able to win one you got busted cheating.  You cheated at least three years and still only came out with one?  

[David Dennison 18,922]

Just now, closetohumping said:

The one time you guys were able to win one you got busted cheating.  You cheated at least three years and still only came out with one?  

It's been great. 

[closetohumping 17,445]

Just now, David Dennison said:

It's been great. 

The attention?  Yeah, I'm sure it is considering your franchise and city are afterthoughts in the national landscape.  Bad publicity is better than no publicity.  

[Helobious 9,461]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Everybody's angry. It's great. 

The best part is, there's nothing you can do about it.

Very, very ironic that you laugh about that. I can think of a certain 100% inevitable scenario later this year that you have no control over and can do nothing about, yet you bitch about more than anyone on the board. I’ll just say it rhymes with “pee-erection”. 

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

The attention?  Yeah, I'm sure it is considering your franchise and city are afterthoughts in the national landscape.  Bad publicity is better than no publicity.  

Absolutely. The Astros matter to MLB in a big way. It wasn't like that when I was growing up.

[David Dennison 18,922]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Very, very ironic that you laugh about that. I can think of a certain 100% inevitable scenario later this year that you have no control over and can do nothing about, yet you bitch about more than anyone on the board. I’ll just say it rhymes with “pee-erection”. 

Dude. This is sports. It's entertainment and nothing more. Have some perspective.

[closetohumping 17,445]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Dude. This is sports. It's entertainment and nothing more. Have some perspective.

kettle pot.

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Absolutely. The Astros matter to MLB in a big way. It wasn't like that when I was growing up.

Not really.  Other than the cheating thing, nobody really cares.  Take this from someone who doesn't live in Katy.  That goes for all Houston teams.  Nobody hates the Texans, Stros or Rockets.  Flyover city.  Other Texas teams?  Sure. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

Very, very ironic that you laugh about that. I can think of a certain 100% inevitable scenario later this year that you have no control over and can do nothing about, yet you bitch about more than anyone on the board. I’ll just say it rhymes with “pee-erection”. 

Lmao dead ass he’s being exactly what he hates.

Better hop on that Stros train 2020 it’s inevitable lmao

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

Dude. This is sports. It's entertainment and nothing more. Have some perspective.

So is the other thing you follow now. Jump on the train beta cuck tears boy