2020 General MLB off-season

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

Please do not expand the playoffs. Jesus. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Do not expand and do not make it reality TV lite. Please do not fuck up baseball

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

I think I'm okay with the playoffs expansion, with a modification.  Either:

1.  Only expand to 12  (thus 2 byes per league) 

or

2.  You must have a winning record to qualify for wildcards 3 & 4.  So a league could have 1 to 3 byes for division champs, increasing the Sept drama & intrigue without watering down the playoffs quite as much.

I do like the 3-game series at the home of the division champ and highest WC better than the current 1 game winner take all WC format.   Or maybe the WC 1 vs WC 2 matchup do an alternating cities series with no travel days, because tough crap, you shoulda won your division.

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by clapclapclap
Also, if you hit the foul pole you should get to name an opposing player to kick out of the game.  Could include the manager or base coaches, and they couldn't replace coaches.

[Beau Vine 54246]

 

[thetruth 149]

Bauer goes off on Manfred

 

Don't care for Tyler Bauer, but I agree with all of this. Manfred is an asshat. 

[ss13 1832]

Embedded 

 

[Beau Vine 54246]

Really bad look for Beltran:

Quote

You’re an accessory to a robbery, and now you’re in the backseat of the getaway car. You never intended to be part of a criminal act. But the doors are locked, the driver is speeding away, and you’re unable to escape.

One member of the 2017 World Series champion Astros uses that analogy to explain the feeling in the clubhouse as the team deployed a real-time sign-stealing scheme that season.

Carlos Beltrán, a highly respected veteran with a Hall-of-Fame resume, had helped create the system, and as the senior member of the team, his voice functionally prevailed over all others. Clubhouse dynamics are a powerful force, conditioning players to keep quiet and respect veterans, and ultimately played a role in the Astros’ snowballing scandal.

Few players voiced any objections at the time to Beltrán or anyone else in authority, and the Astros continued with a different form of illicit sign stealing the following season, after Beltrán had retired. Major League Baseball had failed to take enough action to prevent such activity in the seasons leading up to 2017.

In that context, Beltrán, along with former bench coach Alex Cora, became a driving force behind the trash-can banging system that marked a culmination of the Astros’ use of electronics to steal signs illegally.

And some Astros players, even manager A.J. Hinch, felt powerless to stop him.

Hinch, in his recent interview with MLB Network, did not make excuses for his failure to prevent the Astros’ illegal practices, which led to his suspension for the 2020 season and subsequent firing. Beltrán’s sway over the clubhouse, however, helps explain the inaction of Hinch and his other coaches and players, even as some who were there say they felt conflicted about the team’s misconduct. The reluctance of anyone in uniform to challenge Beltrán spoke to the power of the accomplished veteran in the sport’s political pecking order.

The Astros during home games would use a video monitor positioned near the dugout to decode signs from a center-field camera, then bang on a trash can to alert the hitter to which pitch was coming. They used a different system on the road, decoding signs during games from feeds to the video replay room, then relaying the sequences from the replay room to the dugout to a runner at second base to the hitter.

“I was in my first year, man,” former Astros pitcher Joe Musgrove, now with the Pirates, said in a Jan. 24 interview on MLB Network. “Along with (Alex) Bregman and a lot of those guys, and in your first year in the big leagues you’re around guys like Beltrán and (Brian) McCann, some big names. And I’m not going to be the pitcher to walk up and tell ‘em to knock it off.”

Both McCann and Beltrán played for the Yankees during the 2014, ’15 and ’16 seasons before joining the Astros in ’17. But it was Beltrán who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were “behind the times.”

During the season, small groups of Astros discussed their misgivings. McCann at one point approached Beltrán and asked him to stop, two members of the 2017 team said.

“He disregarded it and steamrolled everybody,” one of the team members said. “Where do you go if you’re a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, ‘We’re doing this’? What do you do?”

Beltrán did not respond to a request for comment. Half a dozen members of the 2017 team interviewed by The Athletic for this story spoke on the condition of anonymity.

---

Recently, commissioner Rob Manfred’s designation of the Astros’ cheating system as player-driven came into question.

The Wall Street Journal reported last week on a letter MLB sent Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow as part of its disciplinary process. In the letter, the league described efforts of lower-level Astros front office members, including director of advance information Tom Koch-Weser and director of team operations Derek Vigoa, in one segment of the sign-stealing process. Vigoa had developed an algorithm called “Codebreaker” in Excel that helped decode signs more quickly.

The introduction of Codebreaker was ultimately part of an attempt by the Astros to steal signs using their video replay room — something other teams were known to have been doing at the time, in various forms. During the 2017 season, the video replay room systems had been largely unchecked until the commissioner punished two teams, the Red Sox and Yankees, that September.

(As The Athletic previously reported, the Yankees used the video replay room to decode signs as early as 2015, Beltrán’s second season with the club. At the time, MLB’s rules for electronic sign stealing were broader and largely unenforced. Following the 2017 season, and again after 2018, MLB put more detailed and stricter measures in place to try to prevent real-time electronic sign-stealing.)

The Astros’ development of an algorithm to decode signs from video was legal as an advance scouting tool, and the use of that algorithm would have remained legal if it had not been deployed live during games — a practice the Astros eventually adopted. However, it was their other sign-stealing effort, involving the trash-can banging to signal pitches in real time, which Beltrán and Cora helped direct, that MLB found most egregious.

“What happened was Cora and Beltrán decided that this video room stuff Koch-Weser was doing (with Codebreaker) was just not working, inefficient, too slow,” a person with direct knowledge of the investigation said. “They just had some lower-level guy put up this monitor and did it themselves.”

“But it was two different things,” that person continued. “The real kind of crime here was they didn’t stop (in September) and the banging on the trash can was over the top compared to what happened before.”

The front-office clearly had a role in developing the Astros’ rule-breaking methods, and the environment in which those flourished. But the trash-can banging — the sign-stealing main event — originated with uniformed personnel.

---

Members of the 2017 Astros use various terms to describe Beltrán — El Jefe, the Godfather, the king, the alpha male in the building. Beltrán was 40 that season, capping off a 20-year career, seeking to add to his Hall of Fame resumé. No other person in the Astros’ clubhouse carried the same stature, including McCann, who was 33 that season and a less accomplished player.

In the culture of a major-league clubhouse, players adhere ritualistically to longtime codes. To at least some, former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers broke one of those codes — what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse — when he confirmed the Astros’ trash-can system to The Athletic. Deference to accomplished veterans is another enduring clubhouse dynamic.

Astros second baseman José Altuve was not yet an MVP. Future Hall of Fame pitcher Justin Verlander did not join the team until Aug. 31. Hinch, who had averaged 85 wins in his first two years with the Astros after a failed stint with the Diamondbacks, was not yet a World Series-winning manager.

Manfred’s report states that Hinch attempted to signal his disapproval of the Astros’ scheme by twice physically damaging a monitor that team members used to decode signs from the center-field feed, necessitating its replacement. But Hinch evidently feared he would lose credibility in his clubhouse by taking further steps.

“It’s complicated when you’re talking about a team and all the inner workings of a team,” Hinch told MLB Network, without referring specifically to Beltrán and Cora — the latter of whom remains under investigation by MLB for his roles both with the 2017 Astros and ’18 Red Sox. “But I just feel like I could have done more, looking back, especially the leader I feel like I am in 2019 versus where I was in 2017.

“I’m much more confident today than I was in 2017. Where I fell short is that I didn’t believe that at the time. Otherwise, I probably would have handled it differently. And I should have.”

Even for the Astros’ players, things are clearer in hindsight.

Nearly three years after the fact, some say they were uncomfortable with the trash-can banging system. Some members of the 2017 team, however, do not recall players dissenting at the time.

“No one ever said anything about how they didn’t agree with the system,” one team member said. “They loved hitting with the system.”

The players also continued their rule-breaking in 2018, after Beltrán had retired and Cora had left to become manager of the Red Sox. While The Athletic and MLB’s investigation found no evidence of the Astros using the trash-can banging system in ’18, Manfred’s report said, “the team’ replay review room staff continued, at least for part of the 2018 season, to decode signs using the live center field camera feed, and to transmit the signs to the dugout through in-person communication.”

The belief among many Astros that opponents also were skirting rules to gain a competitive advantage contributed to the players’ mixed feelings; one member of the 2017 team referred to electronic sign stealing during that time as an “epidemic.”

“Did we know for sure? No, but there was so much BS in the air about what to believe other teams were doing and not doing,” another team member said. “And so it got really muddled.”

---

Beltrán retired after the 2017 season, a World Series champion for the first time. Less than two months later, he returned to one of his former teams, the Yankees, as a special advisor to general manager Brian Cashman.

By that point, paranoia about illegal sign stealing had reached a fever pitch around the league. A good portion of that paranoia was directed at the Astros, and the Yankees already held suspicions about their seven-game loss to Houston in the 2017 American League Championship Series. Manfred’s report later made clear that the Astros used both the video replay room and the monitor next to the dugout to decode signs during the 2017 postseason.

One Yankees official said whenever he would ask what the Astros “were doing down there,” Beltrán would chuckle and say, “Nothing no one else is doing.” Two other former Yankees with the Astros, McCann and Joe Espada, who took over for Cora as bench coach in ’18, essentially would say the same in casual conversations with their former club. But Beltrán, according to one team source, divulged particulars of the Astros’ scheme to certain low-level Yankees officials, providing confirmation the team was justified in ramping up its efforts to combat sign stealing.

True to his reputation as a savvy observer of the game, Beltrán also astonished the Yankees with his ability to determine through video — legally — which of their prospects were tipping pitches. While his information proved useful, his overall impact was minimal, some with the team say.

Cora, on the other hand, had risen to stardom as the Red Sox manager, winning the World Series in 2018, his first season. In 2019, he and Beltrán were on opposite sides of the game’s biggest rivalry. And that June, without prompting, Cora made Beltrán’s role a surprising topic of discussion in a news conference after the Red Sox gave up 29 runs in two losses to the Yankees in the London Series.

“I was joking with someone that (the Yankees’) biggest free-agent acquisition was Carlos Beltrán,” Cora said, with a big wink. “I know how it works, you know? He’s helping a lot. They’re paying attention to details and we have to clean our details.”

“It was eye-opening the last few days, from top to bottom,” Cora continued. “And I’m not saying devices and all that stuff, it’s just stuff that the game will dictate and will scream at people and is right there. Throughout the evening, I was looking and I saw it, you know? And right now, they’re a lot better than us, so we need to get better.”

Even at the time — months before anyone learned of Cora’s and Beltrán’s role in rule-breaking with the 2017 Astros — the Yankees’ coaches found Cora’s comments curious. Beltrán was on the trip, but the coaches rarely saw him otherwise, and he had not been part of their preparation for the series. One player recalled clubhouse chatter in London about Beltrán’s relationship with Cora, and — in another example of the widespread paranoia throughout the industry — questions about whether Beltrán could be trusted with the Yankees’ secrets.

The Yankees again lost to the Astros in the ALCS, this time in six games. For Beltrán, the sting of José Altuve’s walk-off homer off Aroldis Chapman lasted only so long. On Nov. 1, he was named the new manager of another of his former teams, the Mets.

On Nov. 12, The Athletic reported that the Astros had stolen signs illegally in 2017, following with a story the next day identifying Beltrán and Cora as playing key roles in the system. Beltrán, in statements to The Athletic and New York Post, said he was not aware of the camera in center field, and said the Astros only stole signs legally.

Manfred announced the Astros’ punishment on Jan. 13, prompting the dismissals of Hinch and Luhnow. No players were suspended, but Manfred’s report confirmed Beltrán’s involvement in the Astros’ scheme.

The Red Sox fired Cora the next day.

The Mets parted ways with Beltrán two days after that.

“Over my 20 years in the game, I’ve always taken pride in being a leader and doing things the right way, and in this situation, I failed,” Beltrán said in a statement he released to media outlets. “As a veteran player on the team, I should’ve recognized the severity of the issue and truly regret the actions that were taken.

“I am a man of faith and integrity and what took place did not demonstrate those characteristics that are so very important to me and my family. I’m very sorry.”

Nearly a month has passed. Beltrán has not commented since.

As the Astros begin spring training this week, they will face numerous questions about their conduct in 2017 and ’18. Baseball is considering a series of changes to further clamp down on illegal sign stealing. Increased scrutiny and attention may prevent a system like the Astros’ from ever sprouting again, but the enduring lesson is that, if unchecked, teams will always seek an edge. And clubhouse dynamics generally do not prepare players to say, “enough.”

Key part for Helobius:

Quote

Both McCann and Beltrán played for the Yankees during the 2014, ’15 and ’16 seasons before joining the Astros in ’17. But it was Beltrán who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were “behind the times.”

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Beau Vine

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I found nothing but agreement with everything Bauer said there.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Rosenthal implies that Beltran learned the sign stealing techniques prior to his arrival in Houston. National media: crickets

Some chick claiming to be Beltran’s niece claims the Astros were using buzzers. National media: WE HAVE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS

[clapclapclap 9000]

Edit:  wrong thread

Edited February 12, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Beau Vine 54246]

Quote

On the evening of Oct. 22, 2019, a group of umpires, Major League Baseball officials and the brain trusts of the Washington Nationals and Houston Astros — the respective general managers, Mike Rizzo and Jeff Luhnow, and managers Dave Martinez and A.J. Hinch — filed into a room beneath Minute Maid Park in Houston for a pre-World Series meeting. While ordinary in nature, the meeting would become notable in the weeks that followed.

Joe Torre, the Hall of Fame manager who now serves as MLB’s chief baseball officer, cut through the standard review of ground rules and other on-field matters with an unusual, “no-shenanigans” warning, according to people familiar with the meeting: No cameras trained on dugouts or catchers, and no electronics in the dugout.

 

Although the same message had been delivered before other playoff series in an era in which technology has crept ever closer to the dugout, neither Torre, his staff, nor the Astros knew what Rizzo and Martinez did: The Astros’ reputation for being rampant cheaters had so preceded them that the Nationals had arrived prepared.

 

 

By the end of the month, the Nationals would wrap up a World Series championship. Thirteen days after that, the Astros’ franchise would be stained by an electronic sign-stealing scandal that has tainted its own 2017 World Series title and consumed the sport for much of the offseason.

The Astros’ system for using electronics to steal signs came into full public view Nov. 12, when former pitcher Mike Fiers exposed the machinations in a story published by the Athletic. The report prompted an MLB investigation that resulted in the suspension and firing of both Luhnow and Hinch. Paranoia about the Astros’ methods had gripped baseball, affecting the way other teams scouted and prepared to face Houston — in some cases crippling officials with worry.

According to people at all levels throughout the sport — players, clubhouse staff members, scouts and executives — the idea that the Astros employed nefarious methods was an open secret.

 

“The whole industry knows they’ve been cheating their a---- off for three or four years,” said an executive from a team that faced the Astros in the playoffs during that span. “Everybody knew it.”

Thomas Boswell: Baseball has a problem, and the Astros are only a symptom

Like most of the people interviewed for this story, the executive spoke on the condition of anonymity to defy an MLB request that personnel from other teams refrain from speaking freely about the Astros. He estimated “10 to 12” teams had complained to MLB about the Astros over the years. An executive from another team agreed with that number.

While the logistics of the ­Astros’ scheme — a camera in center field, a video monitor near the dugout, banging on trash cans to signal pitches and what the Wall Street Journal reported was an operation called “Codebreaker” to decipher the catcher’s signs — remained unknown as it was happening, suspicions that games against the Astros were contested on an uneven playing field skyrocketed.

 

 

“It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019], things were going on that were blatantly against the rules.”

Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship.

As one member of the Nationals put it, “It was amazing, once [it was assured] we were playing the Astros, how many people were coming out of the woodwork to let us know what they were doing.”

The Astros faced the Dodgers in the 2017 World Series. Houston went 8-1 at Minute Maid Park that postseason. (Jamie Squire/Getty Images)

A long time coming

In the first part of the 2017 season, an American League club made a trip to Minute Maid Park to face an Astros team that was loaded with talent. Second baseman José Altuve was on his way to an MVP season. Shortstop Carlos Correa had been the first pick of the draft five years earlier. Third baseman Alex Bregman was the second pick in the draft three years after that. Lefty Dallas Keuchel had won a Cy Young Award.

 

When the series ended, the manager and general manager of the visiting team met in the visiting clubhouse. They couldn’t help but think the Astros had something on them, something extra.

“They seemed to be all over certain pitches from our guys and laying off others,” the GM of that team recalled of the Astros’ ­hitters.

By the 2017 season, video was ingrained in baseball culture. Hitters had become so reliant on analyzing their at-bats that they frequently did so midgame, back in the clubhouse. When MLB introduced instant replay review in 2014, it served to bring a familiar tool even closer to the dugout because teams now relied on video staffers to relay to the manager whether he should ­challenge a particular call.

 

Late in the 2017 season, the potential for misuse of the video system became both explosive and obvious: The Boston Red Sox were caught relaying sequences of signs from the video room to a trainer who was in the dugout and received them on an Apple Watch. Commissioner Rob Manfred fined the Red Sox and issued a memo to all teams, outlining that electronic sign-stealing was illegal and that a team’s manager and general manager would be held accountable for violations.

 

But as the 2017 season wore on, the proximity of video equipment to the dugout remained. The Astros went into first place in the AL West on April 14 and never trailed again. They won 101 games. And as they did, a buzz spread: Something’s amiss. Scouts tasked with evaluating the Astros and then relaying their tendencies to their own clubs found their reports filled with material that had never before been necessary — essentially, counterespionage.

“It was all brought up” in the advance reports the scout handed over to his superiors, one AL scout said. “It was as much a part of the report as anything else, because we had to be prepared to counter it, if that were possible. [Use] a bunch of sign systems . . . just any way possible to try to combat an advantage we all knew they had but couldn’t do anything about. It felt helpless. You felt silly almost, sitting there knowing [they were doing something] but having to just put it in a report as if it was a normal thing to contend with. It sucked.”

 

That level of suspicion and frustration began to seep through opposing organizations. One AL executive described meetings of his team’s analytics department. The members were so frazzled before playing Houston that they seemed almost resigned to the idea, as the executive said, that “we can’t beat them if they’re cheating.” The executive said he implored them, in one meeting, to drop the speculation.

“Guys,” he said, “we’ve got to get it out of our minds.”

The Astros’ A.J. Hinch said accusations by the Yankees during the ALCS “made me laugh because it’s ridiculous.” (USA Today Sports)

Word gets around

After the Nationals swept the Cardinals to win the pennant and waited to see whom they would face in the World Series, five of Rizzo’s top lieutenants scouted the Astros-Yankees ALCS in person. The Astros, who under ­Luhnow’s regime fired many scouts and instead relied heavily on video scouting, had no advance scouts at the Nationals-Cardinals series.

 

By this point, the suspicions about Houston’s illicit methods began to gain some public traction. The Yankees accused the Astros of using a system of whistles to relay stolen signs to batters — to which Hinch, at the time the Astros’ manager, replied, “It made me laugh because it’s ­ridiculous.”

Yet any Astros opponent felt it had to do its due diligence, just in case. So during the ALCS games in Houston, at least one of the Nationals’ scouts kept a pair of binoculars trained on the area beyond center field, keeping watch for any suspicious cameras or personnel. When that failed to turn up anything nefarious, one of the scouts, on at least one occasion, went out to the center field area in person to canvass it.

The Nationals never found anything suspicious, but they were told: Don’t let your guard down. And they trained their sights on Game 6 of the Yankees-Astros series, played at Minute Maid Park.

 

The Yankees occupy a unique place in the Astros’ sign-stealing scandal, having been beaten by them in the ALCS in 2017 — when they are known to have used their scheme — and in 2019, during which MLB said it did not find evidence of its use. The Astros went a combined 6-1 at home during those series.

That Saturday night in Game 6, the Yankees lost the pennant on a walk-off home run by Altuve, who hit a slider from closer Aroldis Chapman. Among baseball people, that play has furthered the circumstantial case against Houston throughout baseball.

A video of Altuve was widely shared online that showed him appearing to warn his teammates not to rip off his jersey as he approached home plate and immediately running to the clubhouse to change shirts afterward.

“You’re covering up and holding your shirt closed when you hit a homer to win the pennant?” the executive asked rhetorically. “Who ever hit a home run to win the pennant and goes to the clubhouse and 20 seconds later comes out in a different shirt? No. You celebrate with your teammates.”

On the evening of Oct. 22, 2019, a group of umpires, Major League Baseball officials and the brain trusts of the Washington Nationals and Houston Astros — the respective general managers, Mike Rizzo and Jeff Luhnow, and managers Dave Martinez and A.J. Hinch — filed into a room beneath Minute Maid Park in Houston for a pre-World Series meeting. While ordinary in nature, the meeting would become notable in the weeks that followed.

Joe Torre, the Hall of Fame manager who now serves as MLB’s chief baseball officer, cut through the standard review of ground rules and other on-field matters with an unusual, “no-shenanigans” warning, according to people familiar with the meeting: No cameras trained on dugouts or catchers, and no electronics in the dugout.

 

Although the same message had been delivered before other playoff series in an era in which technology has crept ever closer to the dugout, neither Torre, his staff, nor the Astros knew what Rizzo and Martinez did: The Astros’ reputation for being rampant cheaters had so preceded them that the Nationals had arrived prepared.

By the end of the month, the Nationals would wrap up a World Series championship. Thirteen days after that, the Astros’ franchise would be stained by an electronic sign-stealing scandal that has tainted its own 2017 World Series title and consumed the sport for much of the offseason.

The Astros’ system for using electronics to steal signs came into full public view Nov. 12, when former pitcher Mike Fiers exposed the machinations in a story published by the Athletic. The report prompted an MLB investigation that resulted in the suspension and firing of both Luhnow and Hinch. Paranoia about the Astros’ methods had gripped baseball, affecting the way other teams scouted and prepared to face Houston — in some cases crippling officials with worry.

According to people at all levels throughout the sport — players, clubhouse staff members, scouts and executives — the idea that the Astros employed nefarious methods was an open secret.

 

 

“The whole industry knows they’ve been cheating their a---- off for three or four years,” said an executive from a team that faced the Astros in the playoffs during that span. “Everybody knew it.”

Thomas Boswell: Baseball has a problem, and the Astros are only a symptom

Like most of the people interviewed for this story, the executive spoke on the condition of anonymity to defy an MLB request that personnel from other teams refrain from speaking freely about the Astros. He estimated “10 to 12” teams had complained to MLB about the Astros over the years. An executive from another team agreed with that number.

While the logistics of the ­Astros’ scheme — a camera in center field, a video monitor near the dugout, banging on trash cans to signal pitches and what the Wall Street Journal reported was an operation called “Codebreaker” to decipher the catcher’s signs — remained unknown as it was happening, suspicions that games against the Astros were contested on an uneven playing field skyrocketed.

 

“It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019], things were going on that were blatantly against the rules.”

Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship.

As one member of the Nationals put it, “It was amazing, once [it was assured] we were playing the Astros, how many people were coming out of the woodwork to let us know what they were doing.”

The Astros faced the Dodgers in the 2017 World Series. Houston went 8-1 at Minute Maid Park that postseason. (Jamie Squire/Getty Images)

A long time coming

In the first part of the 2017 season, an American League club made a trip to Minute Maid Park to face an Astros team that was loaded with talent. Second baseman José Altuve was on his way to an MVP season. Shortstop Carlos Correa had been the first pick of the draft five years earlier. Third baseman Alex Bregman was the second pick in the draft three years after that. Lefty Dallas Keuchel had won a Cy Young Award.

When the series ended, the manager and general manager of the visiting team met in the visiting clubhouse. They couldn’t help but think the Astros had something on them, something extra.

“They seemed to be all over certain pitches from our guys and laying off others,” the GM of that team recalled of the Astros’ ­hitters.

By the 2017 season, video was ingrained in baseball culture. Hitters had become so reliant on analyzing their at-bats that they frequently did so midgame, back in the clubhouse. When MLB introduced instant replay review in 2014, it served to bring a familiar tool even closer to the dugout because teams now relied on video staffers to relay to the manager whether he should ­challenge a particular call.

 

Late in the 2017 season, the potential for misuse of the video system became both explosive and obvious: The Boston Red Sox were caught relaying sequences of signs from the video room to a trainer who was in the dugout and received them on an Apple Watch. Commissioner Rob Manfred fined the Red Sox and issued a memo to all teams, outlining that electronic sign-stealing was illegal and that a team’s manager and general manager would be held accountable for violations.

But as the 2017 season wore on, the proximity of video equipment to the dugout remained. The Astros went into first place in the AL West on April 14 and never trailed again. They won 101 games. And as they did, a buzz spread: Something’s amiss. Scouts tasked with evaluating the Astros and then relaying their tendencies to their own clubs found their reports filled with material that had never before been necessary — essentially, counterespionage.

“It was all brought up” in the advance reports the scout handed over to his superiors, one AL scout said. “It was as much a part of the report as anything else, because we had to be prepared to counter it, if that were possible. [Use] a bunch of sign systems . . . just any way possible to try to combat an advantage we all knew they had but couldn’t do anything about. It felt helpless. You felt silly almost, sitting there knowing [they were doing something] but having to just put it in a report as if it was a normal thing to contend with. It sucked.”

 

That level of suspicion and frustration began to seep through opposing organizations. One AL executive described meetings of his team’s analytics department. The members were so frazzled before playing Houston that they seemed almost resigned to the idea, as the executive said, that “we can’t beat them if they’re cheating.” The executive said he implored them, in one meeting, to drop the speculation.

“Guys,” he said, “we’ve got to get it out of our minds.”

The Astros’ A.J. Hinch said accusations by the Yankees during the ALCS “made me laugh because it’s ridiculous.” (USA Today Sports)

Word gets around

After the Nationals swept the Cardinals to win the pennant and waited to see whom they would face in the World Series, five of Rizzo’s top lieutenants scouted the Astros-Yankees ALCS in person. The Astros, who under ­Luhnow’s regime fired many scouts and instead relied heavily on video scouting, had no advance scouts at the Nationals-Cardinals series.

 

By this point, the suspicions about Houston’s illicit methods began to gain some public traction. The Yankees accused the Astros of using a system of whistles to relay stolen signs to batters — to which Hinch, at the time the Astros’ manager, replied, “It made me laugh because it’s ­ridiculous.”

Yet any Astros opponent felt it had to do its due diligence, just in case. So during the ALCS games in Houston, at least one of the Nationals’ scouts kept a pair of binoculars trained on the area beyond center field, keeping watch for any suspicious cameras or personnel. When that failed to turn up anything nefarious, one of the scouts, on at least one occasion, went out to the center field area in person to canvass it.

The Nationals never found anything suspicious, but they were told: Don’t let your guard down. And they trained their sights on Game 6 of the Yankees-Astros series, played at Minute Maid Park.

The Yankees occupy a unique place in the Astros’ sign-stealing scandal, having been beaten by them in the ALCS in 2017 — when they are known to have used their scheme — and in 2019, during which MLB said it did not find evidence of its use. The Astros went a combined 6-1 at home during those series.

That Saturday night in Game 6, the Yankees lost the pennant on a walk-off home run by Altuve, who hit a slider from closer Aroldis Chapman. Among baseball people, that play has furthered the circumstantial case against Houston throughout baseball.

A video of Altuve was widely shared online that showed him appearing to warn his teammates not to rip off his jersey as he approached home plate and immediately running to the clubhouse to change shirts afterward.

“You’re covering up and holding your shirt closed when you hit a homer to win the pennant?” the executive asked rhetorically. “Who ever hit a home run to win the pennant and goes to the clubhouse and 20 seconds later comes out in a different shirt? No. You celebrate with your teammates.”

 

But with many of the industry’s suspicions confirmed by the investigation, some assume the lack of evidence regarding 2019 only means the Astros managed to hide those transgressions. In an interview with MLB Network last week, Hinch notably did not address head-on a question about whether the Astros used buzzers to signal pitches, instead pointing out MLB had investigated the Astros’ alleged use of buzzers and found no evidence.

One Yankees official believes that, by the 2019 postseason, the Astros had abandoned their scheme out of fear they were close to being caught. But many Yankees players and front-office personnel apparently believed ­otherwise — and the mere suspicion of an ongoing Astros scheme was itself a competitive disadvantage for the Yankees, because it made them spend too much time focused on counterespionage in the run-up to the ALCS.

“We’re so focused on them cheating,” one Yankees official blurted out during an advance meeting, “we’re forgetting we have to just go out and play.”

Many in baseball are asking why it took a whistleblower — Fiers, the former Astros pitcher — to spark MLB to action when so many people had suspected the Astros of wrongdoing for years, with some taking the extra step of reporting those suspicions to MLB.

“We investigate any allegation that’s brought to this office,” an MLB spokesman said Monday, declining to say how many of those allegations it received.

Max Scherzer called former teammate Tony Sipp to ask whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros stealing signs. (John McDonnell/The Washington Post)

Gone but not forgotten

The Yankees’ failures against the Astros, particularly at Minute Maid Park, only made the Nationals’ success more remarkable.

Even before Houston had beaten the Yankees, the Nationals’ video department — along with Rizzo and uniformed personnel that included pitching coach Paul Menhart and Martinez, the manager — took measures to cleanse their mind of the chatter.

And there was lots of chatter. The Los Angeles Dodgers, who lost the 2017 World Series to Houston, were particularly forthcoming. Several Dodgers reached out to Washington second baseman Brian Dozier, who had been with Los Angeles the previous year, to say Houston was stealing signs, according to one person with knowledge of the talks.

Martinez spoke with Alex Cora, the former Houston bench coach, who was by that point managing the Red Sox, according to two people with knowledge of the conversations. Cora, named in the MLB report as a primary instigator of the Astros’ scheme, was subsequently fired by the Red Sox, with whom he won the World Series title in 2018 but failed to make the playoffs in 2019.

Martinez, according to one person, also reached out to Tony Sipp, a reliever for Houston from 2014 to 2018 who spent the first part of 2019 with Washington. Martinez and Sipp didn’t connect, but Nationals pitcher Max Scherzer took his own steps to track down Sipp. It is standard for pitchers and catchers to switch to a more complex set of signs with runners on second — to prevent the runner from stealing the sign and signaling it to the batter, a practice that for years has been considered acceptable — but Scherzer asked Sipp whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros even with no runners on base. Sipp said yes, according to a person familiar with the conversation.

Hank Aaron thinks sign-stealing Astros players should be banned from baseball

So the Nationals’ plan took shape. The pitchers first met on the Friday before the World Series started. They assigned each pitcher five sets of signs, all of which could be affixed to the inside of their caps. They outfitted catchers Yan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki with wristbands with all those signs, much like a quarterback who wears plays on his forearm. Although traditional sign-stealing requires a runner on second base who can see the catcher put down his fingers, the Nationals instructed their catchers to put down multiple signs even when there was only a runner on first or there was no one on base.

The idea was to cleanse the pitchers’ minds of any idea that Houston had an unfair advantage.

“It’s the worst feeling in the world stepping on that mound and having an idea that that hitter knows what’s coming,” Menhart said in November. “It’s one of the most unnerving feelings. You feel helpless. You just get ticked off to the point where you lose total focus and confidence.”

The Nationals’ diligence paid off across the taut, seven-game series. They won the championship by taking all four games in Minute Maid Park.

On Wednesday, pitchers and catchers from the Astros report for spring training at the West Palm Beach, Fla., facility the teams share. On opposite sides of the same ballpark, players from the two teams will face questions, externally and internally, about the scandal that dominated not only the offseason discourse but the inner workings of baseball going back years. The new season is beginning before the entirety of the impact of Houston’s improprieties is known.

“This is really frustrating,” Nationals closer Sean Doolittle tweeted last week. “A month after MLB’s report and all we have now is more evidence and more questions. . . . The integrity of the game is at stake and players and fans deserve some answers.

“It feels like there’s still no closure and everything has been thrown into question — past outcomes are being second guessed and even future games will be cast in doubt. There can be no redemption arc after an institutionalized scandal like this until there’s some accountability.”

 

But with many of the industry’s suspicions confirmed by the investigation, some assume the lack of evidence regarding 2019 only means the Astros managed to hide those transgressions. In an interview with MLB Network last week, Hinch notably did not address head-on a question about whether the Astros used buzzers to signal pitches, instead pointing out MLB had investigated the Astros’ alleged use of buzzers and found no evidence.

One Yankees official believes that, by the 2019 postseason, the Astros had abandoned their scheme out of fear they were close to being caught. But many Yankees players and front-office personnel apparently believed ­otherwise — and the mere suspicion of an ongoing Astros scheme was itself a competitive disadvantage for the Yankees, because it made them spend too much time focused on counterespionage in the run-up to the ALCS.

“We’re so focused on them cheating,” one Yankees official blurted out during an advance meeting, “we’re forgetting we have to just go out and play.”

Many in baseball are asking why it took a whistleblower — Fiers, the former Astros pitcher — to spark MLB to action when so many people had suspected the Astros of wrongdoing for years, with some taking the extra step of reporting those suspicions to MLB.

“We investigate any allegation that’s brought to this office,” an MLB spokesman said Monday, declining to say how many of those allegations it received.

Max Scherzer called former teammate Tony Sipp to ask whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros stealing signs. (John McDonnell/The Washington Post)

Gone but not forgotten

The Yankees’ failures against the Astros, particularly at Minute Maid Park, only made the Nationals’ success more remarkable.

Even before Houston had beaten the Yankees, the Nationals’ video department — along with Rizzo and uniformed personnel that included pitching coach Paul Menhart and Martinez, the manager — took measures to cleanse their mind of the chatter.

And there was lots of chatter. The Los Angeles Dodgers, who lost the 2017 World Series to Houston, were particularly forthcoming. Several Dodgers reached out to Washington second baseman Brian Dozier, who had been with Los Angeles the previous year, to say Houston was stealing signs, according to one person with knowledge of the talks.

Martinez spoke with Alex Cora, the former Houston bench coach, who was by that point managing the Red Sox, according to two people with knowledge of the conversations. Cora, named in the MLB report as a primary instigator of the Astros’ scheme, was subsequently fired by the Red Sox, with whom he won the World Series title in 2018 but failed to make the playoffs in 2019.

Martinez, according to one person, also reached out to Tony Sipp, a reliever for Houston from 2014 to 2018 who spent the first part of 2019 with Washington. Martinez and Sipp didn’t connect, but Nationals pitcher Max Scherzer took his own steps to track down Sipp. It is standard for pitchers and catchers to switch to a more complex set of signs with runners on second — to prevent the runner from stealing the sign and signaling it to the batter, a practice that for years has been considered acceptable — but Scherzer asked Sipp whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros even with no runners on base. Sipp said yes, according to a person familiar with the conversation.

Hank Aaron thinks sign-stealing Astros players should be banned from baseball

So the Nationals’ plan took shape. The pitchers first met on the Friday before the World Series started. They assigned each pitcher five sets of signs, all of which could be affixed to the inside of their caps. They outfitted catchers Yan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki with wristbands with all those signs, much like a quarterback who wears plays on his forearm. Although traditional sign-stealing requires a runner on second base who can see the catcher put down his fingers, the Nationals instructed their catchers to put down multiple signs even when there was only a runner on first or there was no one on base.

The idea was to cleanse the pitchers’ minds of any idea that Houston had an unfair advantage.

“It’s the worst feeling in the world stepping on that mound and having an idea that that hitter knows what’s coming,” Menhart said in November. “It’s one of the most unnerving feelings. You feel helpless. You just get ticked off to the point where you lose total focus and confidence.”

The Nationals’ diligence paid off across the taut, seven-game series. They won the championship by taking all four games in Minute Maid Park.

On Wednesday, pitchers and catchers from the Astros report for spring training at the West Palm Beach, Fla., facility the teams share. On opposite sides of the same ballpark, players from the two teams will face questions, externally and internally, about the scandal that dominated not only the offseason discourse but the inner workings of baseball going back years. The new season is beginning before the entirety of the impact of Houston’s improprieties is known.

“This is really frustrating,” Nationals closer Sean Doolittle tweeted last week. “A month after MLB’s report and all we have now is more evidence and more questions. . . . The integrity of the game is at stake and players and fans deserve some answers.

“It feels like there’s still no closure and everything has been thrown into question — past outcomes are being second guessed and even future games will be cast in doubt. There can be no redemption arc after an institutionalized scandal like this until there’s some accountability.”

Saying it again... at least three different teams have publicly said they complained to the Commissioner's office about the Astros.  At least once, Manfred announced that he investigated and found nothing.  What the fuck was he doing?  He needs to be fired for letting this continue to go on and blow up into a much bigger scandal.  

[Helobious 9454]

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

[shnsajax 3591]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Saying it again... at least three different teams have publicly said they complained to the Commissioner's office about the Astros.  At least once, Manfred announced that he investigated and found nothing.  What the fuck was he doing?  He needs to be fired for letting this continue to go on and blow up into a much bigger scandal.  

Yep, it has continued to get worse every week that new information has dropped. He was afraid to scrutinize the results of the WS, and hold players accountable and that is clearly backfiring. I still think its going to get worse before it gets better. Manfred's one saving grace so far is that the Astros lost this past WS. Them being the reigning WS Champs and 2 out of 3 would blow everything up. 

[TonyTexas 10515]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

Let’s make a bet on the Astros making the playoffs.  It can be money, avatar or banning. Pick your poison. 

[TonyTexas 10515]

I retract my offer, not because I don’t believe the Astros will make the playoffs. Rather, betting a welcher is not a great idea. 
 

On 10/15/2019 at 3:56 PM, Helobious said:

I’m curious what about either’s performance so far makes you think I’m wrong. EE in particular is insanely lost up there. 
 

The Yankees have no pitching left, this series is ending in game 5. I’m so confident that Encarnacion fucking sucks that if he gets even ONE hit the rest of the series, I’ll never post on the baseball board again. Ever. It’s out there in writing. I’ve never gambled money but I’ll offer this up. If I break my promise blacklab can IP ban me or I can be negstormed, I don’t care. Encarnacion is that goddamn terrible that I’m just not concerned. Fuck. 

 

On 10/18/2019 at 12:32 PM, Helobious said:

I tried, I can’t do it. I can’t fucking let Edwin Encarnacistrikeout dictate anything about my life, even something as meaningless as posting on an internet message board. I am a man of my word, always, when it’s convenient. I don’t feel bad breaking a bet I made only with myself. He literally has ONE fucking hit this whole series. ONE. As in one more than I have.

UpperWest is a good guy and a smart baseball fan, and his cuddles & rainbows outlook is one I wish I had in my frustrating life. I can’t just stand by & let the Astros fans eat him alive. You guys are jerks. I want the Astros to lose this series, and if not I want the Nationals to mudhole their ass and curbstomp Orbit on live television. I want to see a young Astros fan crying on TV. It would bring me joy.
 

 

 

4 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Let’s make a bet on the Astros making the playoffs.  It can be money, avatar or banning. Pick your poison. 

 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

7 hours ago, shnsajax said:

Yep, it has continued to get worse every week that new information has dropped. He was afraid to scrutinize the results of the WS, and hold players accountable and that is clearly backfiring. I still think its going to get worse before it gets better. Manfred's one saving grace so far is that the Astros lost this past WS. Them being the reigning WS Champs and 2 out of 3 would blow everything up. 

Pardon my obvious bias, but what is the new information here?  We knew teams were suspicious and the Astros had received multiple complaints.  We knew the Nationals were protecting their signs even with nobody on base.  We knew that the Altuve shirt thing has raised eyebrows.  It is all packaged nicely in an ominous sounding article, and I guess they elaborated on what the suspicions do to an opponent mentally, but the only real concrete piece of info that I hadn't seen elsewhere was that the Nationals really wanted to catch the Astros cheating and were unable.

[huge 3793]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

never change

[shnsajax 3591]

3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Pardon my obvious bias, but what is the new information here?  We knew teams were suspicious and the Astros had received multiple complaints.  We knew the Nationals were protecting their signs even with nobody on base.  We knew that the Altuve shirt thing has raised eyebrows.  It is all packaged nicely in an ominous sounding article, and I guess they elaborated on what the suspicions do to an opponent mentally, but the only real concrete piece of info that I hadn't seen elsewhere was that the Nationals really wanted to catch the Astros cheating and were unable.

This is a very valid point, I guess I am still surprised that really the entire organization was taking part.

[Beau Vine 54246]

4 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Pardon my obvious bias, but what is the new information here? 

That McCann asked Beltran to stop is new info.  I think the details on how much MLB knew it was already a problem is new info -- a GM saying 10-12 teams had complained and Torre meeting with the managers and GMs pre-World Series.  Like I said earlier, I think what really makes this scandal bigger is finding out that MLB knew what was going on and did zero about it until the Athletic article. 

[Beau Vine 54246]

12 hours ago, Helobious said:

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

You sound bidder.

[ss13 1832]

Pretty good offensive C. 

Quote

Toronto Blue Jays catcher Reese McGuire was arrested last weekend for the exposure of sexual organs and given a notice to appear in court, according to the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office.

The incident in question occurred Friday afternoon in a public parking lot outside a Dunedin strip mall, when a subject was seen inside an SUV exposing himself.

McGuire is due to appear at the Criminal Court Complex in Clearwater on March 16.

 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

5 minutes ago, ss13 said:

Pretty good offensive C. 

 

smh Astros should be ashamed

[ss13 1832]

Dunedin must be REALLY boring. 

[ss13 1832]

The best of the new rules. 

Quote

Pitchers will also have to stay on the injured list at least 15 days before being re-activated, and must spend at least 15 days in the minor leagues before being recalled.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 2/10/2020 at 10:53 PM, tx 3 putt said:

Once the teams clinch and the regular season ends, the plan gets congested:

• The division winner with the second-best record would select its wild-card opponent from the three wild-card winners not hosting a series.

• The division winner with the worst record would then choose its opponent from the remaining two wild-card teams.

• The final matchup would pit the wild-card winner with the best record against the wild-card team not yet chosen.

All of the selections, sources said, would be unveiled live on television the Sunday night of the final regular-season games.

Currently, two teams from each league play a winner-take-all wild-card game, and the winner faces the team with the league's best record.

The appeal of the changes, according to the Post, is twofold. It could increase fan interest and could benefit MLB via a richer television-rights package.

This is horrible.  This idea.

Choosing your opponent?  Fuck that shit.

Get rid of wild cards altogether.  Add an expansion team to each league and have 4 4 team divisions.  Done.

[tx 3 putt 76985]

Hand out a rose !!!!

[Smax 3800]

18 hours ago, Helobious said:

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

 

 

youve been wrong with just about every astro and yankee prediction on this forum... lol

[Beau Vine 54246]

1 hour ago, ss13 said:

The best of the new rules. 

 

Which AAAA pitcher fucked your mom?

[ss13 1832]

I just hated the Dodgers rotating their 7-man staff through the last couple years. 

[Constant 6732]

Astros once again highlighting their need for a PR upgrade with this press conference. Surprised they didn’t have Crane and Co buzzing in answers and announcing a new sponsorship with Waste Management. 

[Constant 6732]

 

[huge 3793]

Mmmmmmmm, shit sandwiches for everyone

[Beau Vine 54246]

Stark:

Spoiler

Wait. What’s that sound? Could it actually be (gasp) the pop of baseballs colliding with leather — as opposed to (oh no!) snow plows grinding down your street?

Well, if that’s true, you know what that means. It means we’ve done it again. It means we’ve officially persevered through another long (and especially insane) baseball winter.

It means there’s hope. For warmth. For daylight that extends past 4:30 in the afternoon. And, especially, for a glimpse of Mike Trout and Christian Yelich flashing across a gleaming green baseball field near you. It’s time for actual spring baseball, unfolding this week on the same planet you live on. How uplifting is that?

So unlock those gates of Hohokam Stadium. Open that Waze app and tap in “JetBlue Park.” Spring training 2020 has finally arrived. And to help us make sense of what’s about to unfold, we just finished polling 30 of the smartest baseball people we know, from outposts across this great land. How do they see the spring training landscape that’s about to take shape? Read on. You’re about to find out.

Are the Astros ready for the onslaught?

As part of this survey, we asked our panelists to name the spring stories that intrigued them most. You’ll never, ever guess the first thing we learned: That those 2020 Houston Astros haven’t begun to grasp the fury, the questions, the boos or the derision that’s about to descend upon them. Here’s just a sampling of the answers in the category of “Most Intriguing American League Storyline.”

• “Come on, man. Isn’t it kind of obvious what the biggest story in the American League is going to be — all year?”

• “Was there any other story this winter besides sign-stealing?”

• “Are opposing teams actually going to throw at the Astros all the time? This seems scary.”

• “I don’t think the Astros thing is over. I still think there is something out there where someone is going to start chirping about things they know.”

And on and on and on. On one hand, we wonder: How will these guys answer the questions that are about to start spewing at them? Will they answer them at all? Do they understand that those questions are never going to stop, even if they say stuff like: “We’re only going to talk about this one time?”

Are they ready for that daily soundtrack of fans banging on trash cans in the stands? Do they understand there is now a dark shadow over everything they’ve accomplished — and it’s possible that shadow will follow them for years? Have they grasped how many people have already consigned them to the Cheaters Hall of Fame, right there alongside Lance Armstrong, the old Soviet Olympic teams and Tonya Harding?

But on the other hand, how long will it take for the rest of us to be able to put this aside and focus on anything else? As one NL exec put it, the story of this offseason should have been the wild, hyperactive free-agent market and the refreshing sight of so many mid-market teams trying to win. Instead, the Astros turned into the baseball eclipse that blotted out all other stories.

“It all got overshadowed by the Astros,” that exec said. “It was such a black eye for baseball and such a PR hit for baseball that we couldn’t really celebrate an offseason that both sides should be celebrating.”

SURVEY SAID … Various plot twists in the Astros’ saga got 25 votes for “Most Intriguing AL Story.” And to prove our earlier point, it was hard for our voters to muster interest in anything else. Even though panelists were allowed to vote for more than one, only two other storylines got more than one vote — the MLB-investigated post-Mookie Betts/Alex Cora Red Sox (six votes) and when/where will the Indians trade Francisco Lindor (two)?

Will Bryant or Arenado stay put through the spring?

At least we had furious competition for the prestigious title of “Most Intriguing National League Story.” There was Mookie in Dodger blue, the Reds “going for it,” the many swirling Mets plot lines — from ownership to the manager to the annual how healthy will their rotation be drama — and lots of NL East fascination in general. But let’s put those angles aside, because they took a back seat to the interest in the uncertain future of two of the best third basemen in baseball — Kris Bryant and Nolan Arenado.

When we asked our panel, in a separate category, which National League players they were most surprised didn’t get traded this winter, guess which two stars finished 1-2 for that “honor?” Yessir. It was Bryant (five votes) and Arenado (four).

At least that, technically, was the voting. But in reality, it wasn’t that close. We also awarded Bryant bonus points for two additional two votes that went to “any Cub.” Plus Bryant got extra-extra credit, since it’s the second week of February and the Kris Bryant rumors are still keeping MLB Trade Rumors hopping — at such a level that one NL exec said: “I wouldn’t be surprised if Bryant still gets traded.”

Funny he should say that because, as The Athletic’s Patrick Mooney wrote just this week, the Cubs and Rockies have even kicked around the idea of trading Bryant and Arenado for each other. Don’t bet your season tickets on that one happening this spring. But it’s also fair to ponder what happens if neither guy gets dealt after all these weeks of rumblings — especially Arenado, whose relationship with his bosses in Colorado has turned into what one exec described as “a debacle.”

“I’m not sure that (Arenado/front office) relationship is repairable,” said another of our voters. “That toothpaste is too far out of the tube.”

SURVEY SAID … Here come all the NL players who got mentioned in the “Surprised They Didn’t Get Traded” voting: Bryant 5, Arenado 4, “Any Cub” 2, Kyle Schwarber 1, Wil Myers 1, Josh Bell 1, J.D. Davis 1. Yep, J.D. Davis!

 

(Ken Blaze / USA Today)

Lindor’s last stand

We spent lots of time last week debating the last time a player as great as Mookie Betts got traded. So on that note, here’s a topic we can chew on for our next slow day in sports talk: When was the last time a shortstop quite like Francisco Lindor got traded?

As you think about that one over the next few months, remember that Lindor is a 26-year-old four-time All-Star and two-time Gold Glove winner who has averaged 34 homers, 21 steals and 79 extra-base hits a year over the last three seasons. And once upon a time, it took a court order to move a player like that out of any town. But in the AL division of the “Surprised They Didn’t Get Traded” balloting, Lindor was the only player who even got more than two votes.

So how serious were the Indians about moving him? One panelist whose team kicked those tires this winter described the Lindor rumors as “total B.S.” — not because the Indians didn’t listen but because “I think they just threw his name out there to set a market” for a deal down the road. But an exec from another team had a totally different take.

“They never act like they’re trying to move anybody,” he said. “That’s their whole thing … I thought for sure they’d move him, just to max out on his value. Two years of control. If you wait till the deadline, only certain teams need a shortstop so you don’t have the same amount of teams. Then you get to next offseason, and you’ve only got one year of control. So the longer you wait, the harder it gets.”

SURVEY SAID … How ’bout this eclectic mix of AL players who showed up in the “Surprised They Didn’t Get Traded” voting: Lindor 9, Mitch Haniger 2, Mychal Givens 1, Miguel Andújar 1. What? Couldn’t even muster a single vote for Whit Merrifield?

Will Gerrit Cole be the greatest free-agent pitcher ever?

Until now, there had never been such a thing on this earth as a $324 million pitcher. For that matter, there had never been a pitcher contract that came within 100 million bucks of that. But then Gerrit Cole showed up.

He’s not just the newest Yankee. He’s the highest-paid Yankee in the history of pinstripes. Nine years, $324 million. Can he possibly be worth it? Sheez, can anybody?

Apparently, yes — because check out the voting in the “Best Free Agent Signing” competition:

Gerrit Cole: 18
Didi Gregorius: 12
Anthony Rendon: 11
Stephen Strasburg: 7
Josh Donaldson: 5
Marcell Ozuna: 5
Madison Bumgarner: 5

We can report, with great amusement, that two of our voters put Cole on their list of best and worst signings — and made sure to let us know that wasn’t a mistake. But other than them, not one voter included Cole on their worst-signing list. And we can testify, after more than a decade of doing this survey, that’s pretty much unprecedented for any monster contract.

“He’s worth it,” said one exec known for his never-ending disdain for the free-agent starting-pitcher market. “He’d be worth it at 10 years at $30 million a year. He’s worth it because there’s just such limited access to talent of that magnitude.”

SURVEY SAID… You know this market was shockingly robust when 19 different free agents got votes in the “Best Signing” balloting. Our favorite guy who got a vote? Dusty Baker!

The new Big Red Machine?

Here’s a little trivia question you can use to stump your buddies down at the old corner tavern: The last time the Cincinnati Reds won a postseason series, which pitcher won the clincher?

The correct answer: None other than legendary Reds lefthander David Wells! Outdueled Hideo Nomo and the Dodgers in Game 3 of the 1995 NLDS. And in a related development, that’s also the last time the Reds won a postseason game in Cincinnati. Boy, those 25 years can sure whoosh by, can’t they?

But here’s some big news that should bring joy to everyone down at Skyline Chili: The Reds won the winter! That’s official — at least according to our annual spring training survey, where the Reds tied the Dodgers for “Most Improved NL Team.” Here’s the leader board (in which voters were asked to vote for their three most improved):

Reds: 23
Dodgers: 23
Diamondbacks: 19
Phillies: 9
Braves: 7

Just to catch you up on how the Reds attained this exalted status, they’ve been busy. They guaranteed $164 million to five free agents — Nick Castellanos, Mike Moustakas (to play second base), Wade Miley, Pedro Strop and Japanese outfielder Shogo Akiyama. Add all that to their deal last July that inserted Trevor Bauer into their rotation, and this is now one fascinating team.

But they should know that our voters also had their doubts. One NL exec wondered if this group will gel into “a better team,” as opposed to just “a better roster.” And another NL exec had so many questions about how the defensive pieces will fit (or not) that he pronounced this “the most overrated offseason I can remember in a long time.”

Historical note: The Reds also got 20 votes in last year’s “Most Improved NL Team” balloting — and were so inspired, they went out and started 1-8 and finished 75-87. So apparently, winning the winter isn’t always all it’s cracked up to be.

SURVEY SAID … Another sign it was quite the active offseason: Nine of the 15 NL teams got at least one vote for Most Improved. (The only exceptions: Rockies, Giants, Brewers, Cardinals, Cubs and Pirates.) On the other hand, five teams got votes for most and least improved: Mets, Marlins, Padres, Braves and Nationals.

 

(Ron Vesely / MLB Photos via Getty Images)

Are the White Sox now the team in Chicago?

That’s kind of a trick question, because if we polled the diners at Gino’s East, we’re pretty sure they’d try to convince us the White Sox won’t ever be the team in Chicago. But let’s ignore all that and go on just this survey.

Which team got the most votes for “Most Improved AL Team?” That would be your 2020 White Sox, with 25 votes — seven more than the Yankees. Meanwhile, which team finished second to the Rockies for “Most Unimproved NL Team?” That would be your 2020 Cubs, with 16 votes.

So what should we make of this? Who the heck knows? The White Sox laid out $196 million for five free agents: Yasmani Grandal, Dallas Keuchel, Gio Gonzales, Edwin Encarnación, Steve Cishek and the returning José Abreu. They also traded for Nomar Mazara and extended one of baseball’s most talented phenoms, Luis Robert, for six years, $50 million — before he’d ever played a game in the big leagues.

Yet we didn’t find much sentiment that they were now clearly better than the Twins or Indians. And one voter had so many doubts about every one of those additions, he said, flatly: “I don’t think this was as big an offseason as everyone seems to think.”

Meanwhile, the Cubs took lots of heat for not making any of the big roster-shakeup moves Theo Epstein had suggested were coming. Yet our voters still gave them a legitimate shot to win the NL Central — and thought David Ross could make a big impact from the manager’s office.

“They really didn’t have a lot they could do,” said one executive. “And adding David Ross does give them a different dynamic. I wonder how much (Joe Maddon’s) message had run its course … I think (the right) manager does make a difference.”

SURVEY SAID … Four teams dominated the “Most Improved AL Team” voting: White Sox 25, Yankees 18, Twins 17, Angels 15. Nobody else got more than four votes … But the “Most Unimproved NL Team” voting was an 11-team free-for-all. Every team but the Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Phillies and Reds got votes. And the top of the ballot looked like this: Rockies 23, Cubs 16, Pirates 15, Giants 12, Brewers 7, Cardinals 7.

How loaded are the Dodgers?

This just in: The Dodgers are going to be scary. They won 106 games last year. Then they made the trade that was the runaway winner for “Best Trade of the Offseason,” for that man they call Mookie. Before we tell you how scary, here’s the top three in that category:

Dodgers trade for Mookie Betts/David Price: 17
Diamondbacks trade for Starling Marte: 7
Rangers trade for Corey Kluber: 4

So how good are the Dodgers now? Wow. They just won 106 games — and led their league in runs, homers, slugging and OPS. In fact, their whole team had a higher OPS (.810) than Manny Machado, Marcell Ozuna or Joey Votto. And now they’ve added a six-to-10-win player in Mookie? That’s not fair, is it?

“That Dodgers’ offense has a chance, historically, to be one of the best of all time,” said one NL executive. “I mean, No. 1-through-8, is there a hole anywhere, especially if (Gavin) Lux pops the way he could? I don’t see one. They’re terrifying.”

SURVEY SAID … For all the heat the Red Sox are taking, there were five voters in this survey who either said they liked this deal for both teams (L.A. or Boston) or for “all three teams” (meaning they also were looping in the Twins) … Meanwhile, the four voters who mentioned the Kluber deal were vociferous in how much they loved it for Texas. Even if the Rangers don’t contend, said one exec, if Kluber has a bounce-back first half, “they can take him and flip him at the deadline and get five times what they gave up for him.”

Didn’t you used to be the Orioles?

It seems kind of crazy to think the Orioles played a postseason game more recently than the Phillies, Tigers or Mike Trout. But we are not making this up. Remember that 2016 wild card game? Who knew that painful defeat would look like the glory days compared to whatever the heck is going on in Baltimore at the moment.

Here’s another corner-tavern bet you’re sure to win. Walk into any bar outside the 410 or 301 area codes and ask: Name six Orioles. It’s so hard that even people who work in baseball — people who took part in this survey — were huffing and puffing mightily, trying to answer basic questions like: Can you name the Orioles’ lineup? How about their rotation? Or their bullpen?

“I don’t know who the hell is on their team,” said one longtime executive.

“I’m trying to do their lineup in my head right now, and I’m struggling,” said a pro scouting director.

“Let me try their bullpen,” said the same pro scouting director. “Let’s see. Mychal Givens … I’m trying to think of who else … Wow. I can name one guy in their bullpen.”

This is a major-league team, friends. But our perplexed voters will be relieved to learn it’s also the “Least Recognizable Team in Baseball,” according to our survey. Of the 30 voters, 22 picked the Orioles in this category — and one who didn’t said he refused to vote for them “because they are irrelevant.”

Not surprisingly, the Orioles also blitzed the field in the “Most Unimproved AL Team” competition. That vote looked like this:

Orioles: 22
Red Sox: 16
Mariners: 14
Tigers: 11
Astros: 7
Indians: 7

“They’ve got a chance,” one voter said of the Orioles, “to be one of the worst teams the game has ever seen. Could they lose 120 games? It wouldn’t shock me.”

So that wasn’t too rosy. But at least it was an excellent segue back to our bar bet. Roster Resource projects the Orioles’ 2020 lineup to include three guys claimed on waivers (Rio Ruiz, Renato Núñez and Hanser Alberto), one former Rule 5 pick (Anthony Santander) and their only free-agent addition this winter ($3 million man José Iglesias). We could also give you the other names, but we’d ruin that bet! (Invaluable hint: Yep, Chris Davis is still on the roster.)

SURVEY SAID … Your “Least Recognizable Team” leader board: Orioles 22, Mariners 11, Tigers 10, Marlins 6, Pirates 5 … Most shocking development in that category: A team that won the World Series 16 months ago — the Red Sox — got two votes!

 

(Orlando Ramirez / USA Today)

Who’s feeling the heat?

Every year, we ask our voters to name the teams, front offices and managers who are under the most pressure. It’s always a fascinating exercise. It was especially revealing this year, when several of these voters (theoretically kiddingly) named their own team or front office. No, we’re not telling you who the heck did that. But let’s review the four top vote-getters:

Padres front office (15 votes): Any time one of your owners says — in public, with real people listening — that if your team doesn’t win, “heads will roll,” that’s always a subtle tipoff that your front office is one of those under pressure. So not surprisingly, after hearing those words from Padres executive chairman Ron Fowler, GM A.J. Preller dialed it up this winter with one major signing (Drew Pomeranz) and trades for the likes of Tommy Pham, Jurickson Profar, Emilio Pagan, Zach Davies and Trent Grisham. But is that enough? One voter noticed how many former Orioles coaches the Padres brought in to try to keep Manny Machado’s fire burning. And another said, succinctly: “A.J. Preller must get at least 85 wins.”

Phillies front office (13 votes): Our voters were big fans of the hiring of Joe Girardi as the new manager in Philly. But they also were paying attention last fall, when the GM (Matt Klentak) and team president (Andy MacPhail) made it clear they wanted to keep the old manager (Gabe Kapler) — only to be overruled by team president John Middleton. So it’s no wonder that we’re now seeing more than a dozen rival execs casting doubt on how much faith Middleton has in his front office if another season takes a wrong turn.

Angels front office (11 votes): Here’s one more club that has rival teams wondering about the dynamic between the GM (Billy Eppler) and the owner (Arte Moreno). They see an owner who drove the firing of manager Brad Ausmus after one season, and then pushed the hiring of Joe Maddon. They also see an owner who got so impatient, he reportedly vetoed last week’s trade with the Dodgers, even though that delay had nothing to do with Eppler. So if another season ends without Mike Trout playing in October, it’s clear it won’t be Trout — or Maddon — who will take the heat.

Rockies front office (10 votes): Here’s a complete rundown of all of the Rockies’ major acquisitions this winter, after a 91-loss season:

.
.
.

Oh, wait. There were no major acquisitions. Or minor acquisitions. So GM Jeff Bridich’s offseason will be remembered, by his peers, as That Winter He Ticked Off His Biggest Star for No Apparent Reason. Now spring has sprung. An unhappy Arenado is still a Rockie. And as talented as this team might be if everything goes right, it could also be the biggest mess in baseball if things don’t go so right. “I honestly don’t know what they’re doing,” said one NL exec.

SURVEY SAID … Most of the “Under Pressure” votes were (obviously) inflicted on a bunch of GMs. But five managers also got at least one vote: Gabe Kapler (Giants), Dave Roberts (Dodgers), David Bell (Reds), Scott Servais (Mariners) and even a fellow who has never managed a game in the big leagues, Jayce Tingler (Padres). Sounds like a relaxing gig!

 

(Ron Vesely / MLB Photos via Getty Images)

The Phenom Watch

And now for one of our favorite questions in this survey — the one in which we ask people around the game which rookies they can’t wait to watch this spring. Does it tell you anything about how much young talent you’ll find in the game these days that an incredible 29 players got votes?

But the dude who led this pack is such a hot attraction that one voter answered the question this way:

“Luis Robert … Luis Robert … Luis Robert. He’s 1-2-3 for me.”

We only counted that as one vote, by the way, for the first player in history to be handed a $50 million contract before his first big-league at-bat. But the White Sox’s 22-year-old phenom didn’t need all three votes to win this balloting:

Luis Robert (White Sox): 16
Gavin Lux (Dodgers): 15
Jo Adell (Angels): 7
Jesus Luzardo (A’s): 6
Nate Pearson (Blue Jays): 6
MacKenzie Gore (Padres): 6

“Oh, he’s got some holes in his game,” said the exec who tried to vote for Robert three times. “I wonder if his approach at the plate will catch up to him at the big-league level, because you don’t have to throw him strikes … But the tools are outrageous. Out-rageous.”

SURVEY SAID … Other rookies who got at least three votes: Casey Mize (Tigers), Cristian Pache (Braves), Ian Anderson (Braves) and Wander Franco (Rays) … The love for Franco, who is already drawing Lindor comparisons at age 18, was so effusive that several voters asked if they were allowed to vote for him yet, even though he has never played above the Florida State League. “He’s going to be a super-super-super-super-superstar,” said one exec who scouted him last year. “I saw him play for six games, and he didn’t have one swing and miss. He’s going to be really, really special.”

In other voting news …

“The Five Worst Free-Agent Signings”

Drew Pomeranz (Padres): 15
Hyun-Jin Ryu (Blue Jays): 8
Zack Wheeler (Phillies): 6
Stephen Strasburg (Nationals): 5
(tie) Mike Moustakas (Reds): 4
(tie) Dallas Keuchel (White Sox): 4

SURVEY SAID … On any given journey to the mound, our voters could summon a lot of love for Strasburg — but not seven years, $245 million worth of love. Given his health history, he was the only free agent in our survey to show up in the top five best and worst signings….But he wasn’t the only player to get at least one vote for best and worst signings. Others who turned up on both lists: Wheeler, Gerrit Cole (see above), Yasmani Grandal, Madison Bumgarner, Nick Castellanos, Will Smith and Kyle Gibson.

“The Five Most Important Injury Comebacks”

Lance McCullers: 12
Shohei Ohtani the pitcher: 8
Andrew McCutchen: 8
Giancarlo Stanton: 7
Corey Kluber: 7

SURVEY SAID … Apparently, the trainers’ rooms were pretty crowded last year — because 28 different players got at least one vote. Among other big names who finished just behind that group: Dellin Betances 6, Luis Severino 5, Chris Sale 4, James Paxton 4 and the artist formerly known as Yoenis Céspedes 3.

“The Three Most Unlikely Non-Roster Invitees”

Ubaldo Jiménez (Rockies): 7
Tim Tebow (Mets): 6
Kyler Murray (Arizona Cardinals): 1*

 * Not actually invited — not yet at least

SURVEY SAID … Just so you know, since the last time Ubaldo appeared on a big-league mound (in September 2017), 481 different pitchers have started a game in the major leagues. But our voters were still delighted to see his name show up in their local transactions column. “That was great,” said one AL exec. “I had to read that one twice when I saw it.”… Others who received votes, despite the fact there’s no indication anyone has invited them to anybody’s camp: Garth Brooks, Russell Wilson and Bartolo Colon.

Five more intriguing spring storylines

1. Is Rob Manfred about to lock players out of the video room (and other tech hot spots) during games?

2. How will the Red Sox sign-stealing discipline compare with the Astros?

3. Do three new managers, hired just in the last three weeks, have time to put their stamp on their teams?

4. Will Mike Fiers be treated as a hero truth-teller or a code-busting villain by his fellow players?

5. Will any situational reliever conquer the new three-batter minimum and actually make a team?

 

[immortal13 4059]

21 minutes ago, Constant said:

 

What a douche

[Beau Vine 54246]

Quote

BRADENTON, Fla. — When Chris Archer returned to his hotel room in Houston after a puzzling start against the Astros on Aug. 1, 2017, his cell phone buzzed with a FaceTime call from an Astros player. Archer answered.

“Dude, you’ve got good shit,” the Astro told him. “You were just tipping.”

Archer had pitched into the seventh inning that night in a 6-4 Rays win, but on a few swings it seemed like the Astros hitters knew what pitch was coming. It turns out, they did. The player on FaceTime, whose name Archer won’t disclose, had his answer: He was tipping his pitches. It was fixable.

At the time, Archer bought that explanation. Now, he knows it was a lie. He wasn’t tipping. The Astros were stealing his signs and smacking a trash can.

“It’s pretty messed up,” Archer told The Athletic this week. “The whole thing is messed up.” Later, he added, “It sucks when you dedicate your whole life to something, and somebody’s out there doing some shady shit like that.”

As spring training begins, the fallout from the Astros’ sign-stealing scandal continues to unfold. This week, The Athletic reported Carlos Beltrán and former bench coach Alex Cora were the driving forces behind the Astros’ trash-can banging scheme during their 2017 World Series season, and the Wall Street Journal detailed how the Astros front office had developed an algorithm, called “Codebreaker,” to decode catchers’ signs in real time.

Chris Archer

 

✔@ChrisArcher22

 

 

I’m in a mood right now after hearing the latest bs teams have been up to.

 

6,172

4:00 PM - Jan 16, 2020

Twitter Ads info and privacy

 

678 people are talking about this

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of angry pitchers around baseball. One of them, former Blue Jays reliever Mike Bolsinger, is suing the Astros. For Archer, it’s personal.

“You heard some rumors,” he said, “but I don’t think anybody expected it to be to that extent, especially when you know these dudes on a personal level. You’ve talked to them. You’ve gone to dinners with them. You’ve even been on the same team with some of them — Team USA and stuff. FaceTimed with them throughout the season and offseason. Texted with them. Whatever.

“And then to find out, I was a part of them being successful. It was definitely disheartening. It’s bad for the game. They set out the punishments, and it is what it is at this point. I guess it’s time for everybody to move on.”

Archer won’t name names. He did say one of the players he’s referring to is one of the Astros’ top two players. (For what it’s worth, Archer played alongside Alex Bregman on Team USA in the 2017 World Baseball Classic.)

Archer said he learned of the Astros sign-stealing system in 2018, more than a year before former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers confirmed the trash-can scheme to The Athletic. Archer immediately thought of his start Aug. 1, 2017, and the swings he saw — specifically from Beltrán. (Coincidentally, Fiers, the whistleblower, started that game for the Astros.)

“I remember the whole thing,” Archer said.

When Archer took the mound at Minute Maid Park that night, he didn’t hear the thumps of the trash can. But they were there. Astros fan Tony Adams has logged every audible bang during Astros 2017 home games, and there were 39 bangs in the Aug. 1 game — 21 while Archer was pitching.  The system was simple. The Astros watched catcher Jesús Sucre’s signs on a live feed in the tunnel between the dugout and clubhouse, then relayed that to the hitter: no bangs for a fastball, one for a breaking ball, two for a changeup.

In an email obtained by the Wall Street Journal this week, former Astros director of advance information Tom Koch-Weser described Beltrán as “the godfather of the whole program.” During the game Archer started, there were 10 bangs while Beltrán was at bat. Beltrán’s first at-bat went slider (bang), changeup (two bangs), changeup (two bangs), slider (bang), fastball (no bang). Beltrán ripped the fastball, but the first baseman fielded it for a ground-out.

It was Beltrán’s second at-bat that sticks with Archer.

Archer started him off with two fastballs (no bangs) and got two strikes. Then Archer tried a backdoor slider. Beltrán heard a bang and laid off, taking a ball just off the plate away. Archer went back to the fastball. No bang. Archer reached back and sizzled a 96 mph heater at the top of the strike zone.

“A fastball up here,” Archer said, putting his right hand at chest level.

Beltrán was all over it. The baseball was scorched. It landed in the right-field bleachers. Archer spun and showed his disbelief. “I had looked at a lot of film,” Archer said. “Obviously, Beltrán is a great hitter. But we know strengths and weaknesses. I don’t think he’s ever hit two or three balls out of the strike zone at that velocity and pulled it for a home run. He wasn’t defensive.”

Two batters later, Bregman blasted an 0-1 slider into the left-field seats.

“Archer’s not going to be happy about it, pouting a little bit by dropping his glove,” Astros color analyst Geoff Blum said on the broadcast, “but welcome to Minute Maid Park and the Crawford Crushers.”

Crushers. Trash-can bangers. Whatever. Starting with May 28, 2017, the game the banging became more frequent, according to Adams’ tracker, the Astros had a .289/.350/.481 slash line and .831 OPS at Minute Maid Park. (The league-average home slash line in 2017 was .255/.327/.439, a .767 OPS.)

Archer allowed four runs in six-plus innings and won, just a small data point in his second All-Star season. But, win or lose, it was an unfair fight.

“I gave up a few extra runs, I feel, strictly because they knew what was coming,” Archer said. “Whether it allowed them to take pitches and get into a good count, or they actually hit the ball for extra bases or out of the ballpark.

“It was frustrating.”

After the trash-can scheme entered the mainstream this offseason, Archer started to see clips from that start on social media. He saw Beltrán’s homer and single off him in that game. The replay is on YouTube. Archer didn’t watch it. “I already knew,” he said. Archer was mad, and he grew even more upset when the punishments were doled out and no current Astros players apologized.

“The people who were receiving bangs, the people standing at the plate, haven’t addressed it at all,” Archer said, shrugging slightly. “Spring training starts soon, so hopefully they get time and a chance to (apologize).

“I hope that people can look at it and put themselves in that situation, saying, ‘I’ve dedicated two decades of my life to this job. And these people were able to win a championship or get to the highest pinnacle by cheating.’”

Chris Archer

 

✔@ChrisArcher22

 

 

Totally silent silent.. where that’s “swag” now? It was all a facade the whole time, the act, the game. All of it. https://twitter.com/STR0/status/1219294290997915650 …

Marcus Stroman

 

✔@STR0

 

Shit makes sense now. I remember wondering how these guys were laying off some of my nasty pitches. Relaying all my signs in live speed to the batter. Ruining the integrity of the game. These dudes were all about the camera and social media. Now, they’re all quiet! Lol https://twitter.com/BlueJayHunter/status/1194975912275656704 …

 

17.3K

10:54 AM - Jan 20, 2020

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As of now, the Astros sign-stealing scandal has taken the jobs of a general manager, Jeff Luhnow, and three managers — A.J. Hinch, Cora and Beltrán. The commissioner’s office granted immunity to Astros players in exchange for information about the team’s illicit operations. Archer said, “It sucks that there’s no repercussions for the players. But that’s what they agreed on.”

He takes little solace in knowing he wasn’t tipping his pitches.

“It’s weird,” Archer added, “because a lot of those guys have really good reputations. All of them do. But they’re willing to do anything to win.”

 

[WBT 20586]

On 2/11/2020 at 11:17 PM, Helobious said:

Mark my words, the Astros will be lucky to make it into the wild card game this year. Dusty fucking Baker at the helm, enough said. Expect guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa to all have their batting stats crater now that they can't cheat. It will be glorious. 

Vegas has the over/under at 97 wins.  Go bet the farm.

[tx 3 putt 76985]

Astros apology given, all is good !

Lets play ball !!!!!!

[Sbbruin 21858]

I think it's glorious reading astros fans in the astros thread desperately trying to justify their WS title as clean and untainted.  Sorry, you won a series in 7 games, and were cheating to do it.  Not to mention the prior series and regular season.  The championship is the most tainted perhaps ever.  In any sport. Enjoy.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

15 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I think it's glorious reading astros fans in the astros thread desperately trying to justify their WS title as clean and untainted.  Sorry, you won a series in 7 games, and were cheating to do it.  Not to mention the prior series and regular season.  The championship is the most tainted perhaps ever.  In any sport. Enjoy.

This is very much not the tone of that thread. 

I mean, you've certainly got your usual suspects, but an attempt to frame the entire thread as "desperately trying to justify their WS title as clean and untainted" is disingenuous at best.

[clapclapclap 9000]

37 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

 The championship is the most tainted perhaps ever.  In any sport. Enjoy.

I'm not the Astros Orange Emergency Response Team, but holy drama queen.  That's the problem with the current emo culture, everything is zero to nuke these days. 

Do you not have any historical perspective?  1998, 1999, and 2000 Yanks with at least 4, 7, and 10 Roiders on their roster?  1989 A's were a roids factory.  But I'm sure LaRussa was a boy scout in St. Louis... 2018 Red Sox were repeat offenders for video sign stealing, how is that not worse?  And that's just recent baseball.

Edited February 13, 2020 by clapclapclap
Hooray, we've only been officially convicted of 1 felony!

[Sbbruin 21858]

7 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

This is very much not the tone of that thread. 

I mean, you've certainly got your usual suspects, but an attempt to frame the entire thread as "desperately trying to justify their WS title as clean and untainted" is disingenuous at best.

No, it's not.  Sure, that sentiment is not universal, but it is highly prevalent. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

I assume you're holding a picket sign outside of Dodgers Stadium, demanding they release tainted Mookie Betts and David Price?

Edited February 13, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Constant 6732]

 

[Constant 6732]

43 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

No, it's not.  Sure, that sentiment is not universal, but it is highly prevalent. 

The best version of Astros fans are the ones that believe Altuve when he said he didn’t want his shirt ripped off because his wife would be upset with him. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constant

[WBT 20586]

JET FUEL COULDN'T MELT A BUZZER UNDER ALTUVE'S JERSEY!!11!!1

[Constant 6732]

4 minutes ago, WBT said:

JET FUEL COULDN'T MELT A BUZZER UNDER ALTUVE'S JERSEY!!11!!1

Almost the same in their absurdity, yet some believe one. 

[Sbbruin 21858]

1 hour ago, Constant said:

 

John Mulvaney cracks me up.

[Sbbruin 21858]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

I assume you're holding a picket sign outside of Dodgers Stadium, demanding they release tainted Mookie Betts and David Price?

 

I agreed to drop out of that thread after voicing my opinion that the Astros were cheaters, got caught, and their championship is tainted.  But I will continue to voice that opinion here, because it is tainted.  They may have won anyway.  But maybe not.  We'll never know.  But the asterisk is there.  And as to the comparison to the roid era, that was a time when truly everyone WAS doing it, Dodgers included.  This was a scheme hatched and executed by the Astros.  It was only adopted by the Red Sox because Cora imported it.  Sign stealing by having a man on second trying to see the signs, or guys trying to decode a 3rd base coaches signs is universal.  This was a sophisticated technological cheating scheme.  And no, nobody else was doing it.  Astros, and their fans, have to wear it.

[Hank Chinaski 6315]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

And no, nobody else was doing it.  

You sure about that? There is literally another team currently being investigated for this. And the Beltran stuff that came out this week, at the very least, raises some eyebrows.