The Eyes of Texas

[texifornia 56511]

40 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

The idea that The University would need two bands makes me feel like laying some pipe.

I feel like we're working off two very different definitions of "laying pipe"

[Newy25 7638]

I’d be surprised if the alternative band has much participation after the first year or two. I know high school bands actually have competition but in college without sports, is there really another venue to perform? 

[TrashMaster G 17387]

14 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I’d be surprised if the alternative band has much participation after the first year or two. I know high school bands actually have competition but in college without sports, is there really another venue to perform? 

From reading the links, they are clearly trying to give a marching band experience to those who are interested in becoming directors but are dumb enough to buy into the idea that The Eyes is racist.

[Bigbend1812 12886]

[Steel Shank 9414]

1 hour ago, texifornia said:

I feel like we're working off two very different definitions of "laying pipe"

Nope, it's still the same definition. I got "triggered".

[Armybrat 40734]

55 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I’d be surprised if the alternative band has much participation after the first year or two. I know high school bands actually have competition but in college without sports, is there really another venue to perform? 

The Cactus Cafe.

[markstanco 12505]

That's my initial thought.
I don't think it's a terrible PR idea to at least promote the option of an alternative marching band for students uncomfortable with the Eyes,  

Well it got made fun of today on ESPNU radio twice (maybe more but I wasn't listening all day) so if you are an "any PR is good PR" person then you got your wish.

One of the comments was after stating the separate bands was "what are we (as a society was his reference) doing here?"

[Rimbo 25778]

If you haven't read the entire report the commission wrote, you really should. It's not that long, and it's really fascinating.

That is all.

[Surly Bevo 24696]

Band On The Run

[LonghornSean 3942]

2 hours ago, markstanco said:

 

 

Well it got made fun of today on ESPNU radio twice (maybe more but I wasn't listening all day) so if you are an "any PR is good PR" person then you got your wish.

One of the comments was after stating the separate bands was "what are we (as a society was his reference) doing here?"

 

Seems better than the press that would occur whenever the "play the EOT or you're kicked out the band" letter were sent out.

But no, "any PR is good PR" clearly does not hold true in relation to the Eyes story.

Edited April 23, 2021 by LonghornSean

[Rimbo 25778]

this guy (the head of the committee) says it a lot better than I could:

 

[Dnaguy 11772]

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Dnaguy

[956 Worldwide 34428]

18 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

My guess is one band has big turnout(gameday/the eyes band), other(marching band to no where?) does not, and the one that does not numbers dwindle before it's phased out. 

 

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that it will be two years, tops, before an op-ed that gets national attention is penned by a student who will say the university made him or her choose between a commitment to anti racism and the thrill of performing on game day at DKR.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

5 hours ago, Rimbo said:

this guy (the head of the committee) says it a lot better than I could:

 

I’m indifferent with the whatever outcome but scratching my head why he skipped over the minstrel show in this talk. Wasn’t that the point of the committee to learn about what went in those initial years? I understand that some “leaders” like to lessen or ignore ugly incidents and talk about moving on and upward.  But are they truly leaders if they can’t say what happened?

UT leaders failed this story from Day 1 so no surprise their messaging continues to be bad. Separate but equal bands so the woke band members can do there own thing elsewhere? Weak.

Of the 3 apparent decision available, this is the one that a bureaucrat would take. If the song has a racist background, tell the alumni to F off and that’s it’s gone. If it doesnt, tell the players and band to F off. Instead the decision is neither and hope the controversy goes away. 

[Droopy 2623]

This is the dumbest fucking argument. 
 

If you don’t want to play the song, then don’t go to The University of Texas and join the band.
 

If you do join the band, you have to play the song. It’s the school song, it should be played. 
 

Also, to the band members that want to be part of the band but don’t want to play the song, leave the band and find another marching band to play in. You’re not owed anything and you’re not special. 
 

“Now, Son, how do we get people to do what we want? Tell them, “I’m offended.” That’s right.” - Family Circus 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Droopy

[Hookem2147 20931]

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m indifferent with the whatever outcome but scratching my head why he skipped over the minstrel show in this talk. Wasn’t that the point of the committee to learn about what went in those initial years? I understand that some “leaders” like to lessen or ignore ugly incidents and talk about moving on and upward.  But are they truly leaders if they can’t say what happened?

UT leaders failed this story from Day 1 so no surprise their messaging continues to be bad. Separate but equal bands so the woke band members can do there own thing elsewhere? Weak.

Of the 3 apparent decision available, this is the one that a bureaucrat would take. If the song has a racist background, tell the alumni to F off and that’s it’s gone. If it doesnt, tell the players and band to F off. Instead the decision is neither and hope the controversy goes away. 

They used to sing happy birthday to people in the audience at minstrel shows. If that’s the criteria we are using to make decisions then everyone who sings happy birthday should feel uncomfortable and stop.

[Captainant 27447]

Scott Hana is fucking up LHB so badly. He needs to go. 

[Hookem2147 20931]

1 hour ago, Dnaguy said:

 

 

The media click bait worked again. There are 5+ bands and have been for a long, long time. There’s the Longhorn band, the pep band, the jazz band, the percussion band, etc. This new band is another option being added. It is not “choose one band or the other”. The Tribune, Daily Texan and Kate McGee will do anything for clicks.

[MirrOlure 14625]

Well it got made fun of today on ESPNU radio twice (maybe more but I wasn't listening all day) so if you are an "any PR is good PR" person then you got your wish.

One of the comments was after stating the separate bands was "what are we (as a society was his reference) doing here?"

What we are doing is saying: we have six bands. Here’s what they do, where and when they play, and a list of the songs they perform. Choose which one(s) you want to try out for.

Pretty fucking simple.

[Surly Bevo 24696]

[GW Hayduke 1952]

34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m indifferent with the whatever outcome but scratching my head why he skipped over the minstrel show in this talk. Wasn’t that the point of the committee to learn about what went in those initial years? I understand that some “leaders” like to lessen or ignore ugly incidents and talk about moving on and upward.  But are they truly leaders if they can’t say what happened?

UT leaders failed this story from Day 1 so no surprise their messaging continues to be bad. Separate but equal bands so the woke band members can do there own thing elsewhere? Weak.

Of the 3 apparent decision available, this is the one that a bureaucrat would take. If the song has a racist background, tell the alumni to F off and that’s it’s gone. If it doesnt, tell the players and band to F off. Instead the decision is neither and hope the controversy goes away. 

I agree with the idea that leadership is hard in that it requires addressing difficult things and it is often easier to gloss over, hide, or ignore things.  I think the report did a bit of that when it came to presenting issues surrounding the confederacy.  One example was the executive summary chose to not address General Gregg.  Another was that the executive summary points out that the research team couldn't find a primary source that Lee said "the eyes of the south are upon you" but then on page 11 disclose a primary source of him saying the "eyes of the country are upon you," with country obviously being the confederacy.  THose ties to the confederacy wouldn't IMO change a conclusion like "the inception of the song did not have overtly racist intent" but glossing over the ties does a disservice IMO, especially when dealing with a topic where perceptions differ among groups.   

[immamac 42516]

Fml. Really guys? Like really? Start a thread somewhere else. 

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

9 hours ago, Rimbo said:

It's not that long, and it's really fascinating.

Motto worthy. 

[BurntOrange&White 39648]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m indifferent with the whatever outcome but scratching my head why he skipped over the minstrel show in this talk. Wasn’t that the point of the committee to learn about what went in those initial years? I understand that some “leaders” like to lessen or ignore ugly incidents and talk about moving on and upward.  But are they truly leaders if they can’t say what happened?

UT leaders failed this story from Day 1 so no surprise their messaging continues to be bad. Separate but equal bands so the woke band members can do there own thing elsewhere? Weak.

Of the 3 apparent decision available, this is the one that a bureaucrat would take. If the song has a racist background, tell the alumni to F off and that’s it’s gone. If it doesnt, tell the players and band to F off. Instead the decision is neither and hope the controversy goes away. 

Because I’d you read the report you would know that they found no actual evidence it was performed at minstrel shows but concluded that due to the times it was possible. They found no flyers, post show reviews, or advertisements of the song being performed at minstrel shows.
 

The whole two bands thing will die out eventually due to participation one way or another. The option is there to prevent some dipshit kid saying he was forced to play. They know what they’re signing up for and the expectations and criteria are laid out openly. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Laga4 1270]

1 hour ago, MirrOlure said:

What we are doing is saying: we have six bands. Here’s what they do, where and when they play, and a list of the songs they perform. Choose which one(s) you want to try out for.

Pretty fucking simple.

No way it can be that simple.

We have to choose sides and call people that don't agree with your side stupid, retarded or some such BS.  

[MAUFRAIS 6573]

no we don't you fuckin' retard

[immamac 42516]

seriously - this is the football board, if you want to talk about this change in non-sports context make a thread in the DT, keep this thread related to LHB split

[BurntOrange&White 39648]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

seriously - this is the football board, if you want to talk about this change in non-sports context make a thread in the DT, keep this thread related to LHB split

no u

Edited April 23, 2021 by immamac
FTFY (inserted image)

[Saint Austin 745]

13 hours ago, Bigbend1812 said:

I laughed much harder at this than anticipated.

[Saint Tacky 1610]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Scott Hana is fucking up LHB so badly. He needs to go. 

This is what happens when you try to keep one foot in the boat and one on the dock. To quote Engineman 3rd Class Jay "Chef" Hicks, "never get out of the boat."

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Because I’d you read the report you would know that they found no actual evidence it was performed at minstrel shows but concluded that due to the times it was possible. They found no flyers, post show reviews, or advertisements of the song being performed at minstrel shows.

Your statement is 100% wrong. The report says otherwise.

Quote

“The Eyes of Texas” was first performed on May 12, 1903. It was one number in a student-organized minstrel show at the Hancock Opera House in downtown Austin. The show was a fundraiser for UT’s track team, with performances and musical support by the university’s band. The event was chosen to debut the song because the students knew that President Prather was expected to attend the event and his presence was paramount in order to make fun of him.

The minstrel show was perhaps the most popular form of entertainment at the turn of the 20th century and was the forerunner to vaudeville, radio and TV. Our research reveals that the song was intended to affectionately parody President Prather’s famous signatory line. That “The Eyes of Texas” was most probably debuted in blackface is a painful reality of the song's origin.
 

Quote

Describing Sinclair as “a bear with a banjo”— evidently meant as a compliment—he said further of Sinclair, “He came out on the stage that night of the minstrel show with his face grotesquely blackened and his gaudy, ill-fitting, negroesque clothes, and sang his comic composition, ‘The Eyes of Texas

Now many traditions in the South and North have ties to racism. If not already done, I would think that the university should apologize for any official participation in the minstrel shows. State that it was wrong then.

The report is thorough even though the executive summary is nauseating in complimenting everyone. https://utexas.app.box.com/s/5o2a1klri1htyhq3mziyxdjgxvegprjj

 

[BurntOrange&White 39648]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Your statement is 100% wrong. The report says otherwise.

Now many traditions in the South and North have ties to racism. If not already done, I would think that the university should apologize for any official participation in the minstrel shows. State that it was wrong then.

The report is thorough even though the executive summary is nauseating in complimenting everyone. https://utexas.app.box.com/s/5o2a1klri1htyhq3mziyxdjgxvegprjj

 

Oh my bad, performed in black face....they couldn't prove. Hearsay isn't enough to change. And apologize for what exactly? If so then every song that is rooted in minstrel shows included happy birthday and etc should be apologized for as well. 

Song isn't racist and no need for an apology.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh my bad, performed in black face....they couldn't prove. Hearsay isn't enough to change. And apologize for what exactly? If so then every song that is rooted in minstrel shows included happy birthday and etc should be apologized for as well. 

Song isn't racist and no need for an apology.

Ok, reading comprehension.

I wrote the university should apologize for its past association with minstrel shows. 

[BurntOrange&White 39648]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Ok, reading comprehension.

I wrote the university should apologize for its past association with minstrel shows. 

Was it officially the university performing that song at the shows it was it students performing at the show not of official capacity?

[Tex Pete 20176]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

seriously - this is the football board, if you want to talk about this change in non-sports context make a thread in the DT, keep this thread related to LHB split

I understand how you feel, but the tempest surrounding The Eyes had a dramatic effect on our football team last fall. It is definitely pertinent to this board.

[BabaYaga 15210]

JFC, if you were to try and make up the dumbest possible response/ solution to this question - I don't think I could have come up with a gem quite like this.

[Rimbo 25778]

9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m indifferent with the whatever outcome but scratching my head why he skipped over the minstrel show in this talk. Wasn’t that the point of the committee to learn about what went in those initial years? I understand that some “leaders” like to lessen or ignore ugly incidents and talk about moving on and upward.  But are they truly leaders if they can’t say what happened?

UT leaders failed this story from Day 1 so no surprise their messaging continues to be bad. Separate but equal bands so the woke band members can do there own thing elsewhere? Weak.

Of the 3 apparent decision available, this is the one that a bureaucrat would take. If the song has a racist background, tell the alumni to F off and that’s it’s gone. If it doesnt, tell the players and band to F off. Instead the decision is neither and hope the controversy goes away. 

1. He didn't skip it. Did you even watch the video?

2. Have you read the report? If not, you should.

[Rimbo 25778]

8 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Because I’d you read the report you would know that they found no actual evidence it was performed at minstrel shows but concluded that due to the times it was possible. They found no flyers, post show reviews, or advertisements of the song being performed at minstrel shows.
 

The whole two bands thing will die out eventually due to participation one way or another. The option is there to prevent some dipshit kid saying he was forced to play. They know what they’re signing up for and the expectations and criteria are laid out openly. 

Uhm... if you read the actual report you'd know it DID open at a minstrel show. 

Seriously y'all... read the report. If you haven't read it by now and are spewing nonsense about it online, then it's not merely lazy, it's sus.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

12 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

1. He didn't skip it. Did you even watch the video?

2. Have you read the report? If not, you should.

I did watch the video, and read the report. 

I thought the report after the "open letter" section was very thorough and explained the connection with the infamous minstrel show of 1903. It indicated that all evidence points to the song being first sung in blackface at that show.

EDIT: A few people have referenced an 11-page document. Go read or at least scan through the 60+ page document. It states all of the findings. https://utexas.app.box.com/s/5o2a1klri1htyhq3mziyxdjgxvegprjj

Edited April 23, 2021 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Rimbo 25778]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I did watch the video, and read the report. 

I thought the report after the "open letter" section was very thorough and explained the connection with the infamous minstrel show of 1903. It indicated that all evidence points to the song being first sung in blackface at that show.

EDIT: A few people have referenced an 11-page document. Go read or at least scan through the 60+ page document. It states all of the findings. https://utexas.app.box.com/s/5o2a1klri1htyhq3mziyxdjgxvegprjj

Yeah. It really can't be stated enough: No matter what your opinion is, go read the full report before your start mouthing off online or anywhere. That report was made by some of the brightest people in the field, and it's the first time ever the topic had really been investigated in depth.

They found a lot of stories were myths, many were different from what we'd known, and it really is a colorful history.

 

I found that my opinion was affected in the same way that Quan Cosby's was. You can think what you want, but read it first.

[mchookem 16206]

i agree that the two bands idea doesn't seem long-lived. 

less likely but possible, it evolves into something completely different - a funky, MOB or drumlne type thing. i'm sure there are or will be restrictions on where they can play, but something fun during Longhorn City Limits or something is not unfathomable.  

[BurntOrange&White 39648]

ofc dumbass cnn runs this story. What a fucking joke of a tweet. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Deej 76560]

Meanwhile, aggy is still fellating Sul Ross, but that's ok. 

[markstanco 12505]

18-24 months ago the song wasn't an issue until some Karen told them it was an issue.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:38 PM, TrashMaster G said:

From reading the links, they are clearly trying to give a marching band experience to those who are interested in becoming directors but are dumb enough to buy into the idea that The Eyes is racist.

That’s just what high schoolers need in their band directors. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

17 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

on page 11 disclose a primary source of him saying the "eyes of the country are upon you," with country obviously being the confederacy. 

Why is that obvious? Everything I’ve read about Lee indicates that he wanted post-war healing more than for the South to rise again.

Edit:  I’m sure both Grant and Lee would agree that the alternative band is a splendid idea. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by ImissWallyPryor

[GW Hayduke 1952]

6 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Why is that obvious? Everything I’ve read about Lee indicates that he wanted post-war healing more than for the South to rise again.

Edit:  I’m sure both Grant and Lee would agree that the alternative band is a splendid idea. 

 

From page 11 of the report:

Quote

Lee did employ a phrase very much like that in the earlier version, about the Texas brigade, in an order to his troops on September 9, 1861. “The eyes of the country are upon you,” he told his men, referring to the Confederacy. “The safety of your homes and the lives of all you hold dear depend upon your courage and exertions.”

 

[GTNY 280]

25 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

 

From page 11 of the report:

 

Doesn’t it also say that the “the eyes of...” was a common phrase well before Lee’s usage? And the more direct stories of Prather hearing it from Lee like at the university showed no evidence? 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

2 minutes ago, GTNY said:

Doesn’t it also say that the “the eyes of...” was a common phrase well before Lee’s usage? And the more direct stories of Prather hearing it from Lee like at the university showed no evidence? 

It says a lot of things. You are correct in your understanding of what the executive summary says. My point is that the executive summary doesn't jive with page 11, which also seems to have left out some evidence.  

The executive summary appears to ignore Prather's own words (along with the words of those around Prather) which linked the phrase to Lee. The point about Lee's statements at the university and the executive summary's focus on Taylor's memoir is a sleight of hand thing IMO.  The section on Lee in the below paper addresses some of the specific Lee-related deficiencies with the report, but my overall point is that the report didn't appear to adequately address it

https://almartinezut.medium.com/true-origins-of-the-eyes-of-texas-3f2188569f0e

[Ignatius 4001]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:55 AM, immamac said:

Fml. Really guys? Like really? Start a thread somewhere else. 

Motto worthy