Hiring small time coaches leads to small time results

[ShowMeALoss 143]

I keep thinking why head coaches like Strong and Herman who were very successful with lesser talents shit their pants at Texas with an abundance of talent. The answer maybe very simple. It takes different tactics to motivate 2-3 stars to play hard than it does to 4-5 stars. Herman tried the same approach that worked for him at Houston but it didn't work here. When you bench a 5 star to teach him lesson, he reacts differently than a 2 star. It's time to act like We are Texas and make a big time hire.

Edited November 24, 2019 by ShowMeALoss

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

Not to mention wearing the target instead of aiming at the target.

[RiceOwl 74]

This is a stupid argument-Good coaches are good coaches... For example, Urban’s (everyone’s wet dream) tactics at Utah (who was a G5 team at the time) carried over at relative blue blood UF. 

That said-if you are to hire from the G5 level, you need to hire a coach who has succeeded at a G5 school where it’s tough to win (see Rhule, Matt or Fleck, PJ)... Not UH which will always have great talent (by G5 standards) due to its location and academic standards (lack thereof).

[Tx_2_Sc85 332]

Aim small, miss small. Aim small, miss small.

[NowThis 931]

Rhule came from Temple right?

[Ignatius 4001]

41 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Not to mention wearing the target instead of aiming at the target.

IT'S CUZ THEY'RE ALL JEALOUS!!!!! WE'RE TEXAS!!!!!

 

WE BEAT GEORGIA!!!! SECSECSECSEC!!!!

[SaucyJack 3487]

54 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

I keep thinking why head coaches like Strong and Herman who were very successful with lesser talents shit their pants at Texas with an abundance of talent. The answer maybe very simple. It takes different tactics to motivate 2-3 stars to play hard than it does to 4-5 stars. Herman tried the same approach that worked for him at Houston but it didn't work here. When you bench a 5 star to teach him lesson, he reacts differently than a 2 star. It's time to act like We are Texas and make a big time hire.

User name has aged well.

[satyanash 14281]

17 minutes ago, NowThis said:

Rhule came from Temple right?

Plus Riley came from East Carolina, and Matt Campbell came from Toledo. Those are the top three teams in the Big 12, led by "small-time" coaches.

[rantanamo 143]

Rhule or even Riley would come here and coach like shit and you know it.

[ShowMeALoss 143]

44 minutes ago, NowThis said:

Rhule came from Temple right?

Yes but Baylor doesn't recruit like Texas. 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

28 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Plus Riley came from East Carolina, and Matt Campbell came from Toledo. Those are the top three teams in the Big 12, led by "small-time" coaches.

Riley and Ryan Day were handed programs that were at the top. They spent some time in the program before taking over. Texas needed someone with experience running big time programs. For our situation  we made wrong hires.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

Shaka Smart is currently doing a better coaching job than Tom Herman. If that doesn't depress you, you're not a Texas fan.

Meanwhile, it doesn't matter where a guy coached previously. What matters is whether he makes dumbass staff hires.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Walden Ponderer
Autocorrect sucks worse than the Texas offense.

[BornOrange1955 77]

I'm not sure that we have as much talent as everyone assumes. Jalen Green can't cover his shadow without interfering, and he has no clue where the ball is. The OL? Do any of them ever get a push? Ingram? Geez, seems like a good kid, but he never makes anyone miss. Does our DL have any sacks? I mean, literally, any?

You can blame the coaches, and I personally think our head coach sucks, but I'm not sure we have as much talent as people think. Relying on the people who evaluate high schoolers isn't really a great idea. My thinking is Herman isn't any better at evaluating potential than Mack Brown was. I didn't see one player on our team that would oust one of Baylor's starters, other than Duvernay. And by the way, he preferred Baylor until their fiasco was uncovered with Briles.

 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

Look at our most successful coaches in recent history and where they came from. If you are going to hire a coach from a small program, make sure he had a long and sustained success there, which takes away the sample size bias. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[PRONG HORN 3107]

1 hour ago, ShowMeALoss said:

Hiring small time coaches leads to small time results

 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

9 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Look don't get me wrong Rhule is a great coach but he has not beaten a highly ranked team yet. This year they flew under the radar but when you have the target on your back, we don't know how his team is going to do. They took a huge lead on OU in the first half but could not close it out. This is a good year for them but the jury is still out as to whether they can sustain it at the top. Again, these examples are rare and definitely not the norm.

[Zavala 1384]

12 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Oh yeah Baylor is a total monster now lulz

 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

4 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Oh yeah Baylor is a total monster now lulz

 

Herman had a better season last year than Rhule has this year. If Herman blew a lead like Baylor did against OU, Texas fans would be calling for his head. Let's tap the brakes on anointing Rhule as an example of the type of coach that can be successful at Texas. Thinking like that has got us in this mess.

[C-Man 27052]

Look don't get me wrong Rhule is a great coach but he has not beaten a highly ranked team yet. This year they flew under the radar but when you have the target on your back, we don't know how his team is going to do. They took a huge lead on OU in the first half but could not close it out. This is a good year for them but the jury is still out as to whether they can sustain it at the top. Again, these examples are rare and definitely not the norm.

Fully expect them to get exposed in Bowl game.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 minute ago, ShowMeALoss said:

Herman had a better season last year than Rhule has this year. If Herman blew a lead like Baylor did against OU, Texas fans would be calling for his head. Let's tap the brakes on anointing Rhule as an example of the type of coach that can be successful at Texas. Thinking like that has got us in this mess.

Rhule took over a devastated and decimated Baylor program, and in three years has them in the conference title game with 10 wins.  MF’er can coach. 

If the occasional embarrassing loss bother you then you better not go hunting Urban Meyer.

[Zavala 1384]

1 minute ago, ShowMeALoss said:

Herman had a better season last year than Rhule has this year. If Herman blew a lead like Baylor did against OU, Texas fans would be calling for his head. Let's tap the brakes on anointing Rhule as an example of the type of coach that can be successful at Texas. Thinking like that has got us in this mess.

Yup.

They are a meme team. Everything rolling their way, they are getting away with shit in this piss conference, they look amazing. Just like blowU. They get the momentum and roll shitty teams but then get rekt when the field isn't tilted and the pressure gets applied.

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Fully expect them to get exposed in Bowl game.

 

Hope they play the Gators.

They are projected to play Jawgia in the Sugar but that's if Chokelahoma gets into the playoff.

[NowThis 931]

14 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

Look don't get me wrong Rhule is a great coach but he has not beaten a highly ranked team yet. This year they flew under the radar but when you have the target on your back, we don't know how his team is going to do. They took a huge lead on OU in the first half but could not close it out. This is a good year for them but the jury is still out as to whether they can sustain it at the top. Again, these examples are rare and definitely not the norm.

their bowl game will tell a lot. The Big 12 is full of mediocre teams, even OU, so i'm guessing Baylor will fall against a real top 10 team.

[Zavala 1384]

3 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Rhule took over a devastated and decimated Baylor program, and in three years has them in the conference title game with 10 wins.  MF’er can coach. 

If the occasional embarrassing loss bother you then you better not go hunting Urban Meyer.

Wow 10 wins who have they beat?

Oh right, they beat a bunch of shitty big12 teams.

[ShowMeALoss 143]

I think you miss the point of my original post. Yes, Rhule has done a tremendous turnaround, so did Herman last year. Herman hasn't been able to carry over his success when his team was expected to be good. My point was that these small time coaches do well when they are underdogs or flying under the radar. When everyone expects you to win every week, can you keep it up?

[RiceOwl 74]

The Big 12 is the second best conference per the computers...

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 minute ago, Zavala said:

Wow 10 wins who have they beat?

Oh right, they beat a bunch of shitty big12 teams.

Yes, well that would also be the case if UT were 10-1. They can only play their schedule. 

[Laga4 1270]

It's time for CDC to earn his pay.  If he thinks opening up Bevo Blvd. and changing the scoreboard bs is going to fix our problems he's wrong.  

The guy really doesn't need an inept football coach right now with all that's going on with B'ball stadium and such,  but it sure looks like that's what he has.

He's going to have to deal with that also.

[Mole 4320]

To borrow a phrase from our beloved head coach, picking a winning coach is really hard. 

It was time for Mack to go, but the odds were that the next several coaches would be clearly worse. There are maybe 2 or 3 sure thing coaches. Everyone else’s success relies somewhat on the right fit. Success at one school, no matter the size, doesn’t necessarily mean success at Texas. 

We may be exceptionally bad at picking coaches, but even with a great process, the odds are that you’ll pick more duds than not. This applies at directional state and the blueblood football factory.

[Treefidy 1463]

15 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

Herman had a better season last year than Rhule has this year. If Herman blew a lead like Baylor did against OU, Texas fans would be calling for his head. Let's tap the brakes on anointing Rhule as an example of the type of coach that can be successful at Texas. Thinking like that has got us in this mess.

He did blow a lead like that to OU, but we still squeaked out the win at the very end.  

HCs primary job is to hire good assistants, and replace them when they get promoted away or you fire them for underperforming. Guys who can coach, recruit, develop talent, and game plan.   Ideally you find guys who do all of those things well, but really you have to pick your poison.   recruiting is the only function his staff appears to do well.

 Fuckface sucks at his job.  He might have been a good OC, who really knows?  2 years as a HC at a midmajor tells you absolutely nothing about his competency or ability to do job #1.  

[Surly Bevo 24696]

The issue with Rhule, Herman and any coach is that anybody can upset somebody here or there, have an overachieving great season here or there.  What we expect but don't seem to any longer actually demand at Texas is sustained consistency.  It's not small time or G5 or whatever category they get put in coaches that are the problem, it's hiring coaches who have not shown that they can sustain success week after week, month after month, year after year. 

Does that mean they are winning titles every year...no, but it does mean that every year once they have fully gained control of their program (should take 2 years) they are beating teams they should beat, winning 9/10/11 or more games, winning big games with their "big" opponents more often than they lose them (though they will lose them) and only OCCASIONALLY getting surprised by the little guy (because you are fucking unrealistic if you don't think that is going to happen from time to time...but it should be a surprising exception)

People rail against G5 or whatever the fuck they rail against and that is not the measure we should be looking at, fuck that.  We should be looking at coaches who sustain excellence at their level within their program as the candidate pool and THEN we should probe in well thought out interview process their ability to continue to do that at the University with the unique mix of demands it brings (because unless we are hiring one of about 5 coaches from the likes of the biggest of the blue bloods it is unlikely they have any demonstrable history we can rely on when it comes to that facet of the diligence process)

 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

I am frustrated with our inability to conduct a well thought out coaching hire in any revenue sports. 

[BradWilcox 115]

3 hours ago, ShowMeALoss said:

I keep thinking why head coaches like Strong and Herman who were very successful with lesser talents shit their pants at Texas with an abundance of talent. The answer maybe very simple. It takes different tactics to motivate 2-3 stars to play hard than it does to 4-5 stars. Herman tried the same approach that worked for him at Houston but it didn't work here. When you bench a 5 star to teach him lesson, he reacts differently than a 2 star. It's time to act like We are Texas and make a big time hire.

The problem with some of thinking is UT ALREADY made a big time hire. Remember the hoopla when Tom was rumored to take the LSU job and it seemed UT lucked out when he got hired? What about the big time hire when Strong was hired? Other programs hired less known coaches and are prospering. My question then is WHO out there is up for grabs and willing to give it a try knowing he's risking his career if he too fails? UT keeps passing out millions of dollars and recruiting big time players but continue being a step above mediocre. Something is definitely wrong and I don't know what it is or how it can be fixed. All I know is hiring a new HC every 3 years is ridiculous. 

[Zavala 1384]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Yes, well that would also be the case if UT were 10-1. They can only play their schedule. 

No dummy we schedule 1 good OOC opponent and beat blowU when we are gonna make a run.

They've beat NOBODY.

[Zavala 1384]

54 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue with Rhule, Herman and any coach is that anybody can upset somebody here or there, have an overachieving great season here or there.  What we expect but don't seem to any longer actually demand at Texas is sustained consistency.  It's not small time or G5 or whatever category they get put in coaches that are the problem, it's hiring coaches who have not shown that they can sustain success week after week, month after month, year after year. 

Does that mean they are winning titles every year...no, but it does mean that every year once they have fully gained control of their program (should take 2 years) they are beating teams they should beat, winning 9/10/11 or more games, winning big games with their "big" opponents more often than they lose them (though they will lose them) and only OCCASIONALLY getting surprised by the little guy (because you are fucking unrealistic if you don't think that is going to happen from time to time...but it should be a surprising exception)

People rail against G5 or whatever the fuck they rail against and that is not the measure we should be looking at, fuck that.  We should be looking at coaches who sustain excellence at their level within their program as the candidate pool and THEN we should probe in well thought out interview process their ability to continue to do that at the University with the unique mix of demands it brings (because unless we are hiring one of about 5 coaches from the likes of the biggest of the blue bloods it is unlikely they have any demonstrable history we can rely on when it comes to that facet of the diligence process)

 

Tweet that to CDC

[HtownHorn 14486]

47 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

I am frustrated with our inability to conduct a well thought out coaching hire in any revenue sports. 

Due to recruiting constraints, you can't conduct a well thought out coaching search for football.

[Zavala 1384]

7 minutes ago, BradWilcox said:

The problem with some of thinking is UT ALREADY made a big time hire. Remember the hoopla when Tom was rumored to take the LSU job and it seemed UT lucked out when he got hired? What about the big time hire when Strong was hired? Other programs hired less known coaches and are prospering. My question then is WHO out there is up for grabs and willing to give it a try knowing he's risking his career if he too fails? UT keeps passing out millions of dollars and recruiting big time players but continue being a step above mediocre. Something is definitely wrong and I don't know what it is or how it can be fixed. All I know is hiring a new HC every 3 years is ridiculous. 

Maybe look at playing in a conference where the officials all didn't grow up in shithole tiny towns like Lubbock and hate Texas.

[perfectchaos007 6596]

Pretty much every successful head coach at one time were "small time" coaches, but big time programs generally only hire coaches who have an impressive resume at the P5 level. Why?? Because it's like choosing a 3 star recruit over a 5 star recruit. Sure at the end of the day the 3 star may outperform the 5 star, but the chances of the 5 star being more successful are exponentially greater.

[CTC2 2745]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue with Rhule, Herman and any coach is that anybody can upset somebody here or there, have an overachieving great season here or there.  What we expect but don't seem to any longer actually demand at Texas is sustained consistency.  It's not small time or G5 or whatever category they get put in coaches that are the problem, it's hiring coaches who have not shown that they can sustain success week after week, month after month, year after year. 

Does that mean they are winning titles every year...no, but it does mean that every year once they have fully gained control of their program (should take 2 years) they are beating teams they should beat, winning 9/10/11 or more games, winning big games with their "big" opponents more often than they lose them (though they will lose them) and only OCCASIONALLY getting surprised by the little guy (because you are fucking unrealistic if you don't think that is going to happen from time to time...but it should be a surprising exception)

People rail against G5 or whatever the fuck they rail against and that is not the measure we should be looking at, fuck that.  We should be looking at coaches who sustain excellence at their level within their program as the candidate pool and THEN we should probe in well thought out interview process their ability to continue to do that at the University with the unique mix of demands it brings (because unless we are hiring one of about 5 coaches from the likes of the biggest of the blue bloods it is unlikely they have any demonstrable history we can rely on when it comes to that facet of the diligence process)

 

Mike Gundy falls in this category.  He looks stupid in that hair but year in and year out he goes to a bowl being the second best team in a crappy state.

Edited November 24, 2019 by CTC2

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

2 hours ago, Ignatius said:

IT'S CUZ THEY'RE ALL JEALOUS!!!!! WE'RE TEXAS!!!!!

 

WE BEAT GEORGIA!!!! SECSECSECSEC!!!!

Odd response, but you don’t seem to buy into the fact that big time programs like Texas are not extra motivation. You can add to that the uniqueness of Texas being the only program in the country that is located in a football-crazed state (not called Florida) with more than one or two even more highly motivated in-state opponents.

And no, California is not a football-crazed state  

Your typical mid-major success story isn’t up to the task of resurrecting a Texas program. To deny that Texas is a tougher job than just about any other is to ignore the facts. 

[Trey3216 15325]

1 hour ago, Zavala said:

Maybe look at playing in a conference where the officials all didn't grow up in shithole tiny towns like Lubbock and hate Texas.

Your continued blaming of officials and the conference is hilarious.  You’re such a miserable fuck.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

4 hours ago, Zavala said:

No dummy we schedule 1 good OOC opponent and beat blowU when we are gonna make a run.

They've beat NOBODY.

Well, dummy, we would also have a loss to OU or our one special OOC opponent at 10-1. But I’m sure they’ll put an asterisk on the trophy should BU win the conference. 

[Iceman 2640]

I know it's hoops, but is this 'sustained success' before Beard came to Tech?  I don't believe it is, in the context people are throwing it around in this discussion. One could make the argument Beard never actually coached his own players until the last 2 seasons at Tech. You never know how a coach is going to turn out.

1991–1995	Texas (GA)
1995–1996	Incarnate Word (GA)
1996–1997	Abilene Christian (assistant)
1997–1999	North Texas (assistant)
1999–2000	Fort Scott CC
2000–2001	Seminole State JC
2001–2011	Texas Tech (assoc. HC)
2011–2012	South Carolina Warriors
2012–2013	McMurry
2013–2015	Angelo State
2015–2016	Little Rock
2016–present	Texas Tech

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

7 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue with Rhule, Herman and any coach is that anybody can upset somebody here or there, have an overachieving great season here or there.  What we expect but don't seem to any longer actually demand at Texas is sustained consistency.  It's not small time or G5 or whatever category they get put in coaches that are the problem, it's hiring coaches who have not shown that they can sustain success week after week, month after month, year after year. 

Does that mean they are winning titles every year...no, but it does mean that every year once they have fully gained control of their program (should take 2 years) they are beating teams they should beat, winning 9/10/11 or more games, winning big games with their "big" opponents more often than they lose them (though they will lose them) and only OCCASIONALLY getting surprised by the little guy (because you are fucking unrealistic if you don't think that is going to happen from time to time...but it should be a surprising exception)

People rail against G5 or whatever the fuck they rail against and that is not the measure we should be looking at, fuck that.  We should be looking at coaches who sustain excellence at their level within their program as the candidate pool and THEN we should probe in well thought out interview process their ability to continue to do that at the University with the unique mix of demands it brings (because unless we are hiring one of about 5 coaches from the likes of the biggest of the blue bloods it is unlikely they have any demonstrable history we can rely on when it comes to that facet of the diligence process)

 

Rhule took a shit Temple job and in three years had righted the ship. He just duplicated that feat at Baylor. Something absolutely no one saw coming. I believe he is the real deal.

 

[Girdwood 118]

8 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

The issue with Rhule, Herman and any coach is that anybody can upset somebody here or there, have an overachieving great season here or there.  What we expect but don't seem to any longer actually demand at Texas is sustained consistency.  It's not small time or G5 or whatever category they get put in coaches that are the problem, it's hiring coaches who have not shown that they can sustain success week after week, month after month, year after year. 

Does that mean they are winning titles every year...no, but it does mean that every year once they have fully gained control of their program (should take 2 years) they are beating teams they should beat, winning 9/10/11 or more games, winning big games with their "big" opponents more often than they lose them (though they will lose them) and only OCCASIONALLY getting surprised by the little guy (because you are fucking unrealistic if you don't think that is going to happen from time to time...but it should be a surprising exception)

People rail against G5 or whatever the fuck they rail against and that is not the measure we should be looking at, fuck that.  We should be looking at coaches who sustain excellence at their level within their program as the candidate pool and THEN we should probe in well thought out interview process their ability to continue to do that at the University with the unique mix of demands it brings (because unless we are hiring one of about 5 coaches from the likes of the biggest of the blue bloods it is unlikely they have any demonstrable history we can rely on when it comes to that facet of the diligence process)

 

Hi

[Girdwood 118]

1 hour ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

Rhule took a shit Temple job and in three years had righted the ship. He just duplicated that feat at Baylor. Something absolutely no one saw coming. I believe he is the real deal.

 

He’s not. He’ll be exposed soon. 

[El Diablo 4232]

8 hours ago, Zavala said:

Maybe look at playing in a conference where the officials all didn't grow up in shithole tiny towns like Lubbock and hate Texas.

It seems to be that you believe that the other teams in this conference suck, the officiating sucks and that if UT were simply somewhere else then all would be good and the Longhorns would be winning. The deck is stacked against Texas. <- This is the mentality of a loser.

The grass is greener in the SEC because it sits on top of a septic tank.

[Chet Steadman 940]

55 minutes ago, Girdwood said:

He’s not. He’ll be exposed soon. 

Rhule is out there winning 11+ games a year, amassing HC offers from the NFL and a shoe-in for coach of the year, yet some of the experts like this clown know he’s not a good coach because...well, the evidence will present itself soon.  

Lulz. 

[softlynow 1783]

Tressel was at Youngstown St. Good coaches can be found anywhere. All you have to do is know what you’re looking for, and not get wowed by pretty lights. 

[Revolution512 1480]

10 hours ago, Zavala said:

Wow 10 wins who have they beat?

Oh right, they beat a bunch of shitty big12 teams.

He’s playing better defense than anybody with spare parts

[GreenspointTexas 9566]

2 hours ago, Chet Steadman said:

Rhule is out there winning 11+ games a year, amassing HC offers from the NFL and a shoe-in for coach of the year, yet some of the experts like this clown know he’s not a good coach because...well, the evidence will present itself soon.  

Lulz. 

This