I'm trying to get my poker game to the next level

[SKJ 1317]

I'm a cash game player.  I don't understand tournament play. 

I'm probably a classic TAG. I win way more than I lose,  but some days I get up a lot,  then the cards pull a satan and I get crushed. 

I know I need work ranging hands and building a proper bank roll.  

I've never read a poker book. Should I start?

Should I investigate game theory? Or is that pretty much only tournament play?

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

There are good players on this site. They post here 

 

 

[SKJ 1317]

22 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

There are good players on this site. They post here 

 

 

Yes,  but I didn't want to hijack that thread

[Zwylde 822]

What is your current bankroll?

What stakes do you play right now?

How often do you play and where?  Home games, card rooms, casinos?

 

[Chewbacca 7828]

4 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

There are good players on this site. They post here 

 

 

Just don't take my advice.  Stick with Sooner, Lurch and a couple others.

[SKJ 1317]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:03 PM, Zwylde said:

What is your current bankroll?

What stakes do you play right now?

How often do you play and where?  Home games, card rooms, casinos?

 

My bankroll is flat right now.  I just changed companies so my bankroll paid for the transition. 

I play 1-2, in casinos.  I don't know any home games in Oklahoma. I played 4-5 times a week before the transition. 

I haven't played in the last month since the transition. 

[deech 2388]

1 hour ago, SKJ said:

vMy bankroll is flat right now.  I just changed companies so my bankroll paid for the transition. 

I play 1-2, in casinos.  I don't know any home games in Oklahoma. I played 4-5 times a week before the transition. 

I haven't played in the last month since the transition. 

You are starting your bankroll from scratch again.  Track diligently your sessions and your profit.  Keep your poker bankroll separate from your life bankroll.   

With regards to your first post regarding how you get up before you get snake bit by cards, recognize that is variance.  If you are making good solid poker decisions and getting the money in well then don't sweat the outcome if it costs you some profit.  

As for ranging hands, focus on position.   Start with pre-flop range charts like the ones found here:

https://upswingpoker.com/texas-holdem-starting-hands-guide/

80%+ of the opponents at 1-2 likely haven't used or seen the hand guide and likely don't focus as much on position.  If you are playing a good player the charts help you with a range you can typically expect.  

If you are as profitable as you state in your first post you are adequately incorporating ranges in your decision making.  I wouldn't sweat the books, but get active in serious discussions of hand histories in poker forums and here.  Learn for Lurch and Sooner and anyone else in this forum when they post their hand histories.  Chip in with your own thoughts and we all learn from each other.   Grind until your bankroll is up to 2/5.

 

 

[SKJ 1317]

1 hour ago, deech said:

You are starting your bankroll from scratch again.  Track diligently your sessions and your profit.  Keep your poker bankroll separate from your life bankroll.   

With regards to your first post regarding how you get up before you get snake bit by cards, recognize that is variance.  If you are making good solid poker decisions and getting the money in well then don't sweat the outcome if it costs you some profit.  

As for ranging hands, focus on position.   Start with pre-flop range charts like the ones found here:

https://upswingpoker.com/texas-holdem-starting-hands-guide/

80%+ of the opponents at 1-2 likely haven't used or seen the hand guide and likely don't focus as much on position.  If you are playing a good player the charts help you with a range you can typically expect.  

If you are as profitable as you state in your first post you are adequately incorporating ranges in your decision making.  I wouldn't sweat the books, but get active in serious discussions of hand histories in poker forums and here.  Learn for Lurch and Sooner and anyone else in this forum when they post their hand histories.  Chip in with your own thoughts and we all learn from each other.   Grind until your bankroll is up to 2/5.

 

 

Yeah,  I've found that ranging hands seems to be harder in 1-2, especially since I feel like the only one at the table that doesn't play limped hands. 

One of my problems I know I have is that I really dislike calling,  and tend to favor betting or raising. I've seen this get me into trouble a few times. Especially against 'any ace' players at the 1-2 level

[deech 2388]

13 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Yeah,  I've found that ranging hands seems to be harder in 1-2, especially since I feel like the only one at the table that doesn't play limped hands. 

One of my problems I know I have is that I really dislike calling,  and tend to favor betting or raising. I've seen this get me into trouble a few times. Especially against 'any ace' players at the 1-2 level

Agreed.  You can typically only range well if you know someone is good enough to know what a range is and to vary it by position.  It's always going to get you in trouble, but if you are doing it in late position and not overdoing it you will always have the profitable play in the long run.  So don't sweat losing some hands when that happens.  You have to find the fine line between raising to thin out the field and raising and getting too much action.  Most $1/$2 require raises $15 to even begin to deter your opponents from coming along. 

[SKJ 1317]

3 hours ago, deech said:

Agreed.  You can typically only range well if you know someone is good enough to know what a range is and to vary it by position.  It's always going to get you in trouble, but if you are doing it in late position and not overdoing it you will always have the profitable play in the long run.  So don't sweat losing some hands when that happens.  You have to find the fine line between raising to thin out the field and raising and getting too much action.  Most $1/$2 require raises $15 to even begin to deter your opponents from coming along. 

Yes.  I've found 10-15 to be a good spot to get smart money out of seeing a flop with shit and getting stupid money in to see a flop with shit. 

I usually buy in for  $100 and leave at least with a treble.  But there are some wild variance swings as well,  but I've only lost more than one buy in like 3x this year.

[Bookman 4755]

1-2 is hard to play if you're not getting cards. But if you're getting cards put your chips in! They almost always call.

[Bookman 4755]

1-2 in these Texas cardhouses can be difficult, because often they're not really 1-2 games. Some tables there's a straddle every hand and standard raise is $25. Some tables the standard raise is $7. Some tables have 3/4 players willing to put their stack in on every hand.

If you're in an action table, if it goes limp limp limp min-raise and you have AA try shoving in all your chips for a massive overbet. Someone will always call with J-10 suited or 8-8 or something like that. Otherwise you'll have to play those aces in a multi-way pot and some donkey will flop two pair on you because they called a 15x raise with 4-5 suited. And when you bet big unless you're balancing your range everyone assumes your range is AA, KK, QQ, or AK, so your cards are kind of face up.

 

[Bookman 4755]

But what do I know.

[dirtonia 271]

Buy in for more than 100 bucks. Come on mannnnnnnnn.....

[Zwylde 822]

^^^

Agreed.  Even at a 1-3 you should be buying in for at least $300.  If your bankroll allows I would also match the big stack if allowable and possible.  If you have the discipline I always want the max behind me when the nuts come along.  In these crazy card house games someone is almost always willing to call you off. 

 

I will always match the big stack (or reasonably close) and have at least two more buy ins in pocket just in case.

[TornACL 7792]

On 11/26/2019 at 12:23 PM, SKJ said:

I'm a cash game player.  I don't understand tournament play. 

I'm probably a classic TAG. I win way more than I lose,  but some days I get up a lot,  then the cards pull a satan and I get crushed. 

I know I need work ranging hands and building a proper bank roll.  

I've never read a poker book. Should I start?

Should I investigate game theory? Or is that pretty much only tournament play?

 

You gotta know when to hold em. Know when to fold em. 

[Lurch 5949]

Re: Bankroll

I generally want _at least_ 50 BBs on the table at all times, so $100 min for a $1/2. Ideally, I’d start w $200 and any time I get down to $100 I’d add another $100. If I don’t have enough to add on, it’s time to leave. You’ll find that if you’re not disciplined on this you’ll suddenly be “just gambling” with that last $50 or whatever. We’re not here to gamble, even if the rest of the table is.

Variance will absolutely make me add on frequently, so I always have 3 buyins to start the session, so $600 to play $1/2 properly.

Should I burn several buyins and then manage to win it back, I get up for the required 45 mins and then buy back in for my standard $200 start. This reduces my risk for the session.

Finally, we generally need 20 buyins to withstand long term variance, so $4k for $1/2. If you want to work up to $2/5, target building a $10k bankroll. This may feel like absurd overkill, but you want this cushion when the inevitable multi session losing streaks occur. Without it, you risk playing less than ideal because you’re defensive.

I can’t stress enough how much better we play when properly bankrolled. Maniacs can’t scare us out of hands. We can get max value from our monsters. And, importantly, those cracked Aces sting just a little bit less because we accounted for them in our plan.

[SKJ 1317]

On 11/30/2019 at 2:42 PM, Lurch said:

Re: Bankroll

I generally want _at least_ 50 BBs on the table at all times, so $100 min for a $1/2. Ideally, I’d start w $200 and any time I get down to $100 I’d add another $100. If I don’t have enough to add on, it’s time to leave. You’ll find that if you’re not disciplined on this you’ll suddenly be “just gambling” with that last $50 or whatever. We’re not here to gamble, even if the rest of the table is.

Variance will absolutely make me add on frequently, so I always have 3 buyins to start the session, so $600 to play $1/2 properly.

Should I burn several buyins and then manage to win it back, I get up for the required 45 mins and then buy back in for my standard $200 start. This reduces my risk for the session.

Finally, we generally need 20 buyins to withstand long term variance, so $4k for $1/2. If you want to work up to $2/5, target building a $10k bankroll. This may feel like absurd overkill, but you want this cushion when the inevitable multi session losing streaks occur. Without it, you risk playing less than ideal because you’re defensive.

I can’t stress enough how much better we play when properly bankrolled. Maniacs can’t scare us out of hands. We can get max value from our monsters. And, importantly, those cracked Aces sting just a little bit less because we accounted for them in our plan.

Yeah,  my bankroll was 2k, but then life took over.  I generally buy in for 100 as I'm a small stack pro it would seem, and I only usually take 200-300.

Earlier on in life when I didn't have a family and earned money how i earned it,  I'd play with a thousand behind me,  but at the games i played in,  it was understood that i was never all in.  

But things change when you're a citizen. 

200 is max buy in at the 1/2 table closest to me,  so I generally never need to top off

[Zwylde 822]

Well it doesn't sound like you have much to do other than build the bankroll up.  It sounds like you are winning at least 60% of the time?  I don't think you can expect anything greater than 70% win rate (others might disagree but I've never been able to top it) so I would just continue to play 1-3 until you get your roll up to $5k or so and move up to 2-5.  You will notice a little different level of play in 2-5 so adjust your expectations for the first few sessions.  

[Lurch 5949]

I’m averaging about 10 BBs an hour at $2/2 and $2/5. I understand seasoned pros cap at about 20 BBs an hour at these. If you think your far above these, it’s very likely you haven’t put in enough hours to experience full variance, particularly as the regulars learn your play.

Approx 65% of my sessions are winning. I see ample opportunity for improvement, but it’s unlikely to ever eclipse 75%. To rarely have losing sessions likely means insufficient sample size or, possibly, being too tight and thus negatively impacting your BBs/hr.

[Zwylde 822]

Since I began tracking (July 2016) I'm at about 55% winning sessions out of approx 300. At one point I was up to 60% but have come back down this year.  I play a weekly $5/5 game and the rest are $1/3 and $2/5 various casino sessions (Lake Charles and Vegas) and Houston club rooms.   

 

   

[StruggleBus 3922]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

To rarely have losing sessions likely means insufficient sample size or, possibly, being too tight and thus negatively impacting your BBs/hr.

Or maybe he’s going full Postle 

[deech 2388]

6 hours ago, Zwylde said:

Since I began tracking (July 2016) I'm at about 55% winning sessions out of approx 300. At one point I was up to 60% but have come back down this year.  I play a weekly $5/5 game and the rest are $1/3 and $2/5 various casino sessions (Lake Charles and Vegas) and Houston club rooms.   

 

   

What are your favorite rooms in Houston?  

[SKJ 1317]

18 hours ago, Zwylde said:

Well it doesn't sound like you have much to do other than build the bankroll up.  It sounds like you are winning at least 60% of the time?  I don't think you can expect anything greater than 70% win rate (others might disagree but I've never been able to top it) so I would just continue to play 1-3 until you get your roll up to $5k or so and move up to 2-5.  You will notice a little different level of play in 2-5 so adjust your expectations for the first few sessions.  

Well,  no,  I need help with gto, math,  and modernizing my game for sure. 

 

[Zwylde 822]

10 hours ago, deech said:

What are your favorite rooms in Houston?  

I live on the West side so I pretty much stay out there.  My favorite one closed this past Summer so now have to play at Freerolls but don't enjoy it at all.  New one just opened on Westgreen so hopefully they run a better room.  Really liked and did well at Post Oak before they closed and the West side clubs opened.  I'll go to Prime or Lions if thats my only option but prefer others.  I'm moving down to Galveston early next year so I'll probably be hitting Mint in Clear Lake the most often then. 

[Zwylde 822]

2 hours ago, SKJ said:

Well,  no,  I need help with gto, math,  and modernizing my game for sure. 

 

Probably way more than you could ever read on that stuff is on twoplustwo.com

 

[SKJ 1317]

56 minutes ago, Zwylde said:

Probably way more than you could ever read on that stuff is on twoplustwo.com

 

I've been reading a lot,  and I think it's clouding my head more than anything. 

 

[Lurch 5949]

I've been reading a lot,  and I think it's clouding my head more than anything. 
 

Quite possibly at $1/2. Much of the GTO components aren’t applicable at that level. Ie, there’s little need to balance ranges when few are capable of recognizing (much less capitalizing on) your tendencies.

Play ranges appropriate for your position. Yes, you should fold that AJo from UTG. Yes, you should open that 86s on the BTN.

Punish limpers when you have strong hands in position.

With your stronger hands, open and 3bet an amount sufficient to reduce the field to 3 players to the flop. Have a good cbet strategy from there.

Set mine only when you’re sure to get 9x the bet should you hit the flop. Particularly relevant when opponents are short stacked.

Know the rule of 2 and 4. Use it to ensure you’re getting proper odds to chase when you’re behind on the flop. Use it to ensure you’re charging opponents enough to chase when they’re behind you on the flop.

Unless they’ve -proven- to be capable of bluffing, assume they have it when they bet the river. Players generally grossly under bluff the river in small stakes games, even when your perception is that the table is wild. Capable river bluffers have generally advanced to higher stakes games. This does not mean, however, that you should aggressively bluff the river yourself, as low stakes players also tend to over-call, particularly when short stacked. Bluffing is much more prevalent and successful at $2/5 in my experience.

[Zwylde 822]

 

Quote

Quite possibly at $1/2. Much of the GTO components aren’t applicable at that level. Ie, there’s little need to balance ranges when few are capable of recognizing (much less capitalizing on) your tendencies.

^^^^

Agree with this.  I'm not really into the whole GTO thing.  That seems really applicable for all the high roller tourney players who play against each other all the time and totally non applicable for your random $1/3 game. 

 

Use your poker common sense, your table image and your stack to your advantage.  You are likely missing out on bigger session wins by playing short stacked.  You may be more comfortable playing short stacked but as you move up levels you will get targeted and put to the test more often by better players for playing like that imo.  

[Bookman 4755]

Loose, passive $1/$2 game. Seven handed. Game had just started and there wasn't a lot of money on the table.

This is a poker theory/strategy question.

Four limps to me, I have J-10 suited in the big blind. I check. 

Flop 10-10-K rainbow. Checks around.

Turn was a 7. Two diamonds now, 10d and 7d. I bet half the pot, $5. Guy to the left of me quickly calls. Button tanks and calls. I've played with both players lots of times.

River was a blank, like a 3. I value bet $15. Guy to the left of me gives me a speech, acts very weak, says "you don't have a 10," and and raises to $35. Button folds.

Am I good there 21% of the time? His value hands were 7-7 and K-10, which is 6 combinations. I did not put Q-10 or A-10 in his value-raising range.

His bluffs were J-Q or two diamonds, assuming he'd call chasing a draw on a paired board. I count 23 combinations of that.

I have the reputation of "always having it," so I didn't think he was bluffing trying to get me off a strong hand, especially with the speech/tell. Yet I called anyway since his range was real tight and I don't want to get the reputation of folding strong hands to small raises.

He showed K-10.

Was that donkey?

 

[Lurch 5949]

Certainly not donkey to call. He made an excellent bet size/speech combo. Tip cap, move on

[deech 2388]

When they hit you with the you don't have a _____ speech, snap fold.  

[TXSooner518 2455]

On 12/14/2019 at 5:44 PM, deech said:

When they hit you with the you don't have a _____ speech, snap fold.  

This. Without the speech, snap call, shrug, roll on. But when they say "I don't think you have ___", they 100.0% of the time can beat ___.  See Rounders. "I don't think you got the spades Teddy, so I'm gonna go all in."

That's where you need KK and say "You're right. I don't...have...ze ten. Kings fooool." 

Def not one to lose sleep over, just a gross flop and you could have lost a lot more. He just tried to let you off the hook.