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The Batshit Insane QAnon Conspiracy Theory

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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My eyes have been opened to several things over the last four years: The U.S. is A LOT more racist than I thought. U.S. citizens are a lot dumber than I thought. Destroying the ent

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PsychMike

PsychMike 1541

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Man, this thread has really gotten academic. Cool, cool, cool. I have to admit that I haven't been checking in on it as much since mid-January, because with MTG in the news constantly I've been hearing a lot about QAnon.

So admittedly I was completely unaware of this:

 

I thought these poor dumb bastards had finally come to terms with their Savior getting shitcanned as the new President was sworn in and the insurrection got put down. But shame on me for thinking that these cultists would ever get grounded in reality...

 

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formermav43

formermav43 4606

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21 hours ago, Mole said:

Speaking as someone who is evangelicalish theologically, evangelicals and their political madness have caused the greatest damage to the stated evangelical cause of spreading the Gospel. They’ve done more harm to the Gospel message than every abortion doctor, married gay couple, anti-prayer lawsuit, and whatever other social issue they claim to care about combined (if these issues hurt the cause at all).

From my limited observations, Q beliefs have become deeply imbedded into evangelical churches. I doubt that you’ll find too much pure, uncut Q, but the less insane claims (still a low bar) seem to be easily and widely accepted. A lot of this stuff has become mainstream. I have no hard data; this is just what I’ve witnessed.

Completely agreed on the first point. I’ve been lamenting that for years.

As far as Q goes, I think it’s worth reiterating, consistent with some of the observations others have made on this thread, that serious evangelical scholars as well as popular but more intellectual publications like Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition have articles denouncing Q all the time and have ever since it first started making news. The question of who is swept up in this (or for the umpteenth time, who is an evangelical) is complex.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18215

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1 minute ago, formermav43 said:

As far as Q goes, I think it’s worth reiterating, consistent with some of the observations others have made on this thread, that serious evangelical scholars as well as popular but more intellectual publications like Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition have articles denouncing Q all the time and have ever since it first started making news. The question of who is swept up in this (or for the umpteenth time, who is an evangelical) is complex.

One thing about religion that doesn’t get a lot of play is that the vast bulk of believers generally don’t give a shit about orthodox theology. Most of the faithful believe what they want to believe and church membership is primarily a social bond.

And at the rank and file level, the framework of religious thought is pretty similar between different faiths. The real distinction is at the level of superficial details. In that sense, religious faith is like language. Different religions teach different vocabularies, but there’s a universal grammar shared by all.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34695

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16 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

For an outside perspective, here is a thread from Twitter that you might find a somewhat pertinent read based on the earlier conversations. First tweet and then rest is behind spoiler. The account holder is anonymous, was raised in a fundamentalist homeschool setting and left due to abuse. Uses the account to educate others/researchers (as it is a very 'closed' society to outside influencers).

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

That type of stuff absolutely exists and is bat-shit and toxic and needs to be combatted. Where I hesitate is the logical jump..."so don't engage with evangelicals because they are against democracy and always have been."  Home-schoolers for solely religious reasons have always been the fringe of evangelicalism, and there exist even fringes within that fringe.  

Most of us can see the logical flaws in these types of argument when they come from the right-side of the aisle: "Look at the anti-Semitism and authoritarianism on display in this literature we found in this Salafi medresseh. Clearly, we can't integrate orthodox Sunni Muslims into democratic societies." 

There's not a dispute that these extremes exist and that they need to be combatted. But you also run a real risk when you tell someone "your faith isn't compatible with life in a democratic, small-l liberal society." In fact at that point you're confirming what extremists are trying to tell them and if you push them into making a choice, it often won't be the one you want. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21481

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2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


So Mike Liddell is saying that the vaccine developed under the auspices of the Trump administration is the mark of the beast?

It humors me greatly that the one thing that Trump loyalists could legitimately hammer home about Trump's legacy as presidency is how he "parted the seas" for this society-saving revolutionary vaccine in record time. It's not entirely true as his administration's contributions were minimal, and the rollout has been suboptimal...but it did technically happen under his watch, and no one can take that away from him.

But they can't and won't do it because of Plandemic, Fauci's a criminal, Big Pharma, Bill Gates' microchips, Liberals support getting the vaccine, and "I don't need a vaccine for something with a 99.9% survival rate."

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It humors me greatly that the one thing that Trump loyalists could legitimately hammer home about Trump's legacy as presidency is how he "parted the seas" for this society-saving revolutionary vaccine in record time. It's not entirely true as his administration's contributions were minimal, and the rollout has been suboptimal...but it did technically happen under his watch, and no one can take that away from him.

But they can't and won't do it because of Plandemic, Fauci's a criminal, Big Pharma, Bill Gates' microchips, Liberals support getting the vaccine, and "I don't need a vaccine for something with a 99.9% survival rate."

They've cut off their nose to spite their face, you'd think they would want to wear a mask so others couldn't see.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30183

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One thing about religion that doesn’t get a lot of play is that the vast bulk of believers generally don’t give a shit about orthodox theology. Most of the faithful believe what they want to believe and church membership is primarily a social bond.
And at the rank and file level, the framework of religious thought is pretty similar between different faiths. The real distinction is at the level of superficial details. In that sense, religious faith is like language. Different religions teach different vocabularies, but there’s a universal grammar shared by all.

See Cowboy Church thing
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:


So Mike Liddell is saying that the vaccine developed under the auspices of the Trump administration is the mark of the beast?

So the "Operation Warp Speed" program was to lead us to this, where Satan himself uses Trump as his vessel to inject us all with his evil?  What started out as a play on a Star Trek trope is now going to be end of live on Earth?  All that's left to do I guess is for Liddell is to realize he was a pawn in Satan's 4-D chess game, grab a my pillow and scream into it..."KAHN!!!!!!!"  Only in this case, Kahn is Trump.  Or maybe Eric.  I dunno, the Lord works in mysterious ways.  

Speaking of mysterious pillows Liddell, I'm positive your Uncle Marcellus Wallace would like to furnish you with a whole new bedroom set.  How about you Liddell, "You an oak man?"  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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On 2/7/2021 at 3:20 PM, BrickHorn said:

One thing about religion that doesn’t get a lot of play is that the vast bulk of believers generally don’t give a shit about orthodox theology. Most of the faithful believe what they want to believe and church membership is primarily a social bond.

There was an article several years ago, talking about the rise of the mini-mega churches - churches that were a fraction the size of Joel Osteen's and others, but these smaller churches still had to have a very lavish infrastructure - fancy TVs/projectors, fancy social and dining areas, etc., to keep people coming back to the church throughout the week.  

The thing that stuck with me is that it described a lot of churches these days as "Sunday morning social clubs" or something to that effect.  People wanting to be seen, churches wanting to show off the wealth of their patrons, etc.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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^

The socialization factor of churches, in all their forms, has often intrigued me.  Probably a topic for another thread, but it's so wildly different not from one denomination to another (though, that's certainly true), but from one family to another in that congregation, and from one part of the country to the next and from one part of town to the next (within the same sect).  But it does seem like many churches are playing a 1000 year old catchup game with the Catholic Church in a game of "Keeping up with the Joneses" or in this case "Keeping up with the Jesuits."  

This is anecdotal, but that "mini-mega church" (to use the above parlance) at Bee Caves Road and Cuernavaca.  Holy cow.  Look at that thing next time your stuck at the long stoplight.  That is not some exurb mega church built where the rubes of rural America live.  That's an area of Austin of significant education, progressivism, and wealth.  And look at that opulent building.  It's like a community college and a country club got in a fight, and Jesus lost.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54203

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

There was an article several years ago, talking about the rise of the mini-mega churches - churches that were a fraction the size of Joel Osteen's and others, but these smaller churches still had to have a very lavish infrastructure - fancy TVs/projectors, fancy social and dining areas, etc., to keep people coming back to the church throughout the week.  

The thing that stuck with me is that it described a lot of churches these days as "Sunday morning social clubs" or something to that effect.  People wanting to be seen, churches wanting to show off the wealth of their patrons, etc.

Thata's the way the First Baptist Church of Denton was back in the 70s.  Shit, we had a bowling alley...

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Guest Lobo

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Seems weird that the former leader of the free world who sought to bring the Republic to its knees can golf on the Sabbath, but we all can't get in a few frames down at the lanes with coupl'a cold-coldones...

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Wanker Bob

Wanker Bob 379

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There was an article several years ago, talking about the rise of the mini-mega churches - churches that were a fraction the size of Joel Osteen's and others, but these smaller churches still had to have a very lavish infrastructure - fancy TVs/projectors, fancy social and dining areas, etc., to keep people coming back to the church throughout the week.  

The thing that stuck with me is that it described a lot of churches these days as "Sunday morning social clubs" or something to that effect.  People wanting to be seen, churches wanting to show off the wealth of their patrons, etc.

Even though I was raised in the church this is the main reason I just stopped going all together. It seemed to me it was nothing more than social hour as the religious aspects were all bullshit, but those weren't people I enjoyed socializing with. So I started my own church of the pigskin down at the sports bar. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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On 2/7/2021 at 11:11 AM, Brisketexan said:

 The problem with Q (well...A problem with Q) is that it is JUST a belief system, with no structure or institutional role. Q doesn’t get you to church on Sunday, where your kids get to go to Sunday school with your peers, doesn’t put on a Saturday picnic, doesn’t run a day school, doesn’t offer couples counseling, doesn’t bring your family together for big life milestones like baptism or marriage, etc. It just offers a batshit belief system that, while you share it with other people, you aren’t brought into an actual community. 

 

YET

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105043

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8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

YET

Actually, this is the one thing that has long been in our favor with all of these yahoos, over the decades: they're too fucking batshit and "independent-minded" to ever be able to build a cohesive and helpful institution.  They are the people who break shit, not the people who build anything.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I'm picturing you guys like Don and Lane at the movie theater in "Mad Men".  but you're on the steps looking down into a church-basement lock-in telling one another, "You know what's going on here, don't you?  Stinky Pinky."  

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MissingInAction

MissingInAction 25002

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I was in 8th grade when I went to my last lock in, and the closest I'd get to getting laid until Sr year of high school. We had the run of the entire church, so plenty of dark rooms for privacy. 

Nicole, my heavy petting buddy, and I were already dry humping and playing grab ass every chance we got. Eventually we made our way to the library where our pants came off and it was on. Until we heard the snickering onlookers. My "pals" had followed us, and were peeking through the book shelves. She freaks and runs off, I get pissed and start throwing shit at them. 

Fuckers.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I'm not sure how we got to Qanon to heavy petting in Church...but I'll allow it.  I grew up with lots and lots of German, Irish, and Italian Catholics near Chicago but they were fun and free-spirited (was raised Lutheran, FWIW).  Didn't realize how uptight church-goers could be until I moved to Texas and met Baptists and then met my staunch Catholic in-laws shortly after that.  

As far as I can tell Church in Texas is where you learned of the evils of beer.  And Catholic Church for the in-laws was where you went to find out that nothing wrong with alcohol, it's just that the diocese could really use that money more than the liquor store could, so spend accordingly (the guilt trip really worked, these people will drink plenty as long as somebody else is paying for it).    

Some of the first times I ever got drunk as a teenager was at church events.  First time I ever did mushrooms, marijuana, acid, and peyote were with church youth group kids at retreats/lock-ins.  Most of my first sexual experiences at church retreats.  First time questioning the true nature of organized religion and doubting it, at a church retreat at the Michigan sand dunes.  Probably only smoked 2 packs worth of cigarettes in my whole life, almost all of 'em at church events.  The guys I followed the Grateful Dead with for ~23 shows, all fellow church acolytes with me (one show, we literally left church on a Sunday at noon to go Soldier Field parking lot to drop acid and watch the Dead).  

Yeah, who knew locking a bunch of horny, curious kids in a building overnight wouldn't result in a third testament to the bible being written?  

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High Plains Drifter

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On 2/6/2021 at 9:05 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

I will disagree with you here hoss, I’d wager that a continuing slide in active religious practice is driving more people to conspiracy theories and not religion driving them to conspiracies. 

It is not going to be a popular truth around here, but nevertheless— active participation in organized religion in the U tied States strongly tied with all sorts of positive social outcomes from marital stability, overall contentment, fiscal responsibility, friendships, to social stability. It’s also been strongly associated with a lower level of belief in the paranormal, alien visitations, psychics, and other fringe beliefs. Note— this is for actual practice in organized religion, not people who simply claim an affiliation. 

Sure, you can make the argument that it’s just a more socially acceptable or shared delusion but the sociology is pretty clear that statistically, the “organized religion” one is more clearly linked to better outcomes. 
 

I am not going to argue causation, and I think that churches in the US have mostly themselves to blame for the collapse in confidence and attendance. But it is absolutely not clear that sliding levels of religious observation is leading to improved social stability, mental health, social cohesion, etc.....and the potential negative side is far more pronounced among people who are already living at the margins. 

 

yeah, gonna need some citations of actual peer reviewed work on this one, hoss.

 

I'm gonna guess that active participation in organized, secular,  non-profit or charitable organizations has the same correlation. 

 

 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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14 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I was in 8th grade when I went to my last lock in, and the closest I'd get to getting laid until Sr year of high school.

Pretty much my story.

Got caught by one of the high school kids, told them we were playing a game with the others, dragged in front of one of the deacons, thankfully a friend vouched for us and we got to stay the night, but the whole time I was

200.gif

 

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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On 2/6/2021 at 5:51 PM, Mole said:

Speaking as someone who is evangelicalish theologically, evangelicals and their political madness have caused the greatest damage to the stated evangelical cause of spreading the Gospel. They’ve done more harm to the Gospel message than every abortion doctor, married gay couple, anti-prayer lawsuit, and whatever other social issue they claim to care about combined (if these issues hurt the cause at all).

From my limited observations, Q beliefs have become deeply imbedded into evangelical churches. I doubt that you’ll find too much pure, uncut Q, but the less insane claims (still a low bar) seem to be easily and widely accepted. A lot of this stuff has become mainstream. I have no hard data; this is just what I’ve witnessed.

This is a great post. 

I'm not religious, but if I was, and would otherwise possibly be interested in evangelicism, their political batshittery would have put an axe in the chance I'd listen to the message. 

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3083

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On 2/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, TwiceHorn said:

On the religion/spirituality issue (acknowledging that the two are not the same, but religion is how spirituality is often expressed).

One thing that religion can deliver, apart from any specific beliefs of a sect, is a belief in a higher power.

What that means for the individual is, "I don't run this shit."  Similarly, neither does anyone else.  This is what is truly meant by "turn your life over to God."  It doesn't mean abdicate all responsibility for yourself to God or the flying spaghetti monster.  It means acknowledge that you don't run this shit, continuously, in every aspect of your life.  That's not something that happens overnight, but rather over a lifetime and it takes some wisdom to realize when and how you are attempting to control that over which you have none.

When you stop thinking you run this shit or have control over just about anything except your own personal behavior, quite a few good things happen.

You stop trying to control others.  You stop letting others control you.  

You begin to live outside yourself to a greater degree.  You help.  You accept help from others.  You create and participate in a positive community.

Now, this may all seem to be a bunch of happy crappy  AA shit, which it is.

But there's some main truth in it.  You don't have to go looking for explanations for everything that happens to you that you think is bad.  You stop blaming others when stuff happens to you that you think is bad.  Similarly, you are accountable for your own behavior and you don't blame it on externalities.

Most of the positively religious, or spiritual, people that I know seem to "get" this to a greater or lesser degree.  They don't obsess over theological questions, or whether the Bible is inerrant, or whether homosexuality is a sin, whether Presbyterians, Jews, or Catholics are saved, or any of that shit.  But they have a sense of their place in a complicated, confusing, and basically fucked up universe and therefore tend not to contribute to the fuckery.

Interesting thoughts. 

I'm a dyed in the wool agnostic and I've never thought or felt like I control jack shit other than my behavior, and the same for everyone else. And I still believe in helping others because we're all we've got. 

I know you weren't saying religion is the only way to realize those positives; this post is just my hot take on what you said, not any kind of argument.

Anyway, I've always felt that being religious, at least Christianity in the vein I was taught it, would be depressing in a way. That there's some entity that knows how everything will work out already, and can intercede in human affairs to grant wishes when he feels like it, but that we all still have free will supposedly (dictated in large part by the nature and nature it packaged us with), and that life on this planet is just some kind of fucked up test and you've got to be good or else...it all sounds horribly depressing to me. 

The community aspects, and believing in an afterlife of eternal paradise would be cool, though. On the latter point, the religious people I know seem to fear death about as much as I do, so I'm not sure how beneficial that belief/hope is, practically speaking. 

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