The Batshit Insane QAnon Conspiracy Theory

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

From the LA Times: The GOP is in trouble. Apologize for the wonky formatting. 


 

Spoiler

By DOYLE MCMANUSWASHINGTON COLUMNIST 

JUNE 20, 2021 4 AM PT

The Republican Party has a problem with political violence: It’s not sure whether it’s for it or against it.

In the first days after a mob loyal to former President Trump stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 to try to block Congress from certifying President Biden’s election, GOP leaders delivered a sensible, unified response: There’s no place in our constitutional system for that kind of violence.

Since January, though, some leading Republicans have been backsliding — offering excuses for the insurgents who sought to overturn the election through extralegal means.

Rep. Andrew S. Clyde of Georgia has likened the forced entrance of the Capitol to “a normal tourist visit.” Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar complained last month that the FBI was “harassing peaceful patriots” by investigating the events. Twenty-one House Republicans voted against awarding a medal to the Capitol Police for attempting to defend the building; several said they objected to calling the riot an “insurrection.”

Last week, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin defended the protesters, too. “The vast majority of the crowd, they were in a jovial mood,” he said last week. “They weren’t violent.”

And retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who served briefly as Trump’s national security advisor, recently told an audience that a Myanmar-like coup “should happen here.” He later denied having said that, but it was captured on videotape.

These are not good signs for the Republican Party.

Those comments don’t reflect the sentiments of every Republican. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy of Bakersfield have both condemned the Jan. 6 riot.

But a significant chunk of the party’s most fervent supporters aren’t so sure, and they illustrate the GOP’s dilemma. At a time when the party needs every vote it can muster, it can’t risk alienating loyal supporters, even if they embrace violence.

In a survey by the conservative American Enterprise Institute after the riot in January, 56% of Republicans agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

In the same poll, 79% of Republicans said they still had a favorable view of Trump — and 36% said “very favorable.”

That consensus has made GOP politicians fearful of crossing Trump or questioning the actions of his most zealous supporters, including the Jan. 6 revolutionaries.

Republican officials in both Georgia and Arizona, where Trump is still agitating to reverse the election results, say their families have been physically threatened by the former president’s supporters.

When the House voted to impeach Trump in January, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) told CNN, “There were members who told me that they were afraid for their own security — afraid, in some instances, for their lives.”

The result, says Tufts University political scholar Daniel Drezner, is a GOP that has begun to resemble Lebanon’s Hezbollah, “a political party that also has an armed wing to coerce other political actors through violence.”

“The comparison is stronger now than before,” Drezner told me last week. “The Republicans who wanted to impeach Trump have been marginalized, and the state parties sound more and more secessionist with each passing day.”

The willingness of right-wing extremists to resort to violence didn’t begin on Jan. 6 — and Trump has long sounded as if he was encouraging them.

Amid the COVID-19 pandemic last year, for example, he urged supporters to “liberate” their states from Democratic governors. Trump backers in Michigan responded by storming the state Capitol, and six were later indicted on suspicion of plotting to kidnap and murder Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

Before Jan. 6, Trump summoned his loyalists to Washington (“Will be wild!” he promised) and told them: “If you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.” His defenders said he didn’t mean for the word “fight” to incite actual combat.

At this point, some readers may ask: But what about the Democrats? Don’t they have a violent fringe, too?

Not really. The antifa movement, which conservatives point to as an example of left-wing violence, isn’t part of the Democratic Party; its militants don’t wave Biden flags, show up at Biden rallies or, in most cases, support Biden at all. And while Republicans have attacked Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) for urging demonstrators to “get more confrontational,” that comparison doesn’t hold, either; whatever Waters meant by those words, she isn’t her party’s two-time presidential nominee and leader-in-exile.

This is the Republican Party’s problem, and Republicans need to solve it.

They are trying to tiptoe around a fundamental problem: Their candidate lost a presidential election, but he not only refuses to accept the voters’ verdict; he wants his party to “fight” to restore him to power.

They want to move past the embarrassment of Jan. 6 — but that can’t happen until they settle their internal debate: Are they a party that condones extraconstitutional violence or not?

 

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

11 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

They want to move past the embarrassment of Jan. 6 — but that can’t happen until they settle their internal debate: Are they a party that condones extraconstitutional violence or not?

They are trying to avoid answering this question by attempting to convince themselves and all of us that it was intraconstitutional violence. 

[Brisketexan 105096]

15 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

From the LA Times: The GOP is in trouble. Apologize for the wonky formatting. 


 

  Hide contents

By DOYLE MCMANUSWASHINGTON COLUMNIST 

JUNE 20, 2021 4 AM PT

The Republican Party has a problem with political violence: It’s not sure whether it’s for it or against it.

In the first days after a mob loyal to former President Trump stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 to try to block Congress from certifying President Biden’s election, GOP leaders delivered a sensible, unified response: There’s no place in our constitutional system for that kind of violence.

Since January, though, some leading Republicans have been backsliding — offering excuses for the insurgents who sought to overturn the election through extralegal means.

Rep. Andrew S. Clyde of Georgia has likened the forced entrance of the Capitol to “a normal tourist visit.” Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar complained last month that the FBI was “harassing peaceful patriots” by investigating the events. Twenty-one House Republicans voted against awarding a medal to the Capitol Police for attempting to defend the building; several said they objected to calling the riot an “insurrection.”

Last week, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin defended the protesters, too. “The vast majority of the crowd, they were in a jovial mood,” he said last week. “They weren’t violent.”

And retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who served briefly as Trump’s national security advisor, recently told an audience that a Myanmar-like coup “should happen here.” He later denied having said that, but it was captured on videotape.

These are not good signs for the Republican Party.

Those comments don’t reflect the sentiments of every Republican. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy of Bakersfield have both condemned the Jan. 6 riot.

But a significant chunk of the party’s most fervent supporters aren’t so sure, and they illustrate the GOP’s dilemma. At a time when the party needs every vote it can muster, it can’t risk alienating loyal supporters, even if they embrace violence.

In a survey by the conservative American Enterprise Institute after the riot in January, 56% of Republicans agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

In the same poll, 79% of Republicans said they still had a favorable view of Trump — and 36% said “very favorable.”

That consensus has made GOP politicians fearful of crossing Trump or questioning the actions of his most zealous supporters, including the Jan. 6 revolutionaries.

Republican officials in both Georgia and Arizona, where Trump is still agitating to reverse the election results, say their families have been physically threatened by the former president’s supporters.

When the House voted to impeach Trump in January, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) told CNN, “There were members who told me that they were afraid for their own security — afraid, in some instances, for their lives.”

The result, says Tufts University political scholar Daniel Drezner, is a GOP that has begun to resemble Lebanon’s Hezbollah, “a political party that also has an armed wing to coerce other political actors through violence.”

“The comparison is stronger now than before,” Drezner told me last week. “The Republicans who wanted to impeach Trump have been marginalized, and the state parties sound more and more secessionist with each passing day.”

The willingness of right-wing extremists to resort to violence didn’t begin on Jan. 6 — and Trump has long sounded as if he was encouraging them.

Amid the COVID-19 pandemic last year, for example, he urged supporters to “liberate” their states from Democratic governors. Trump backers in Michigan responded by storming the state Capitol, and six were later indicted on suspicion of plotting to kidnap and murder Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

Before Jan. 6, Trump summoned his loyalists to Washington (“Will be wild!” he promised) and told them: “If you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.” His defenders said he didn’t mean for the word “fight” to incite actual combat.

At this point, some readers may ask: But what about the Democrats? Don’t they have a violent fringe, too?

Not really. The antifa movement, which conservatives point to as an example of left-wing violence, isn’t part of the Democratic Party; its militants don’t wave Biden flags, show up at Biden rallies or, in most cases, support Biden at all. And while Republicans have attacked Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) for urging demonstrators to “get more confrontational,” that comparison doesn’t hold, either; whatever Waters meant by those words, she isn’t her party’s two-time presidential nominee and leader-in-exile.

This is the Republican Party’s problem, and Republicans need to solve it.

They are trying to tiptoe around a fundamental problem: Their candidate lost a presidential election, but he not only refuses to accept the voters’ verdict; he wants his party to “fight” to restore him to power.

They want to move past the embarrassment of Jan. 6 — but that can’t happen until they settle their internal debate: Are they a party that condones extraconstitutional violence or not?

 

No it's not.  The party has already made its decision -- it is okay with violence, and it isn't embarrassed about January 6 at all.  This is the problem.

We don't have two political parties anymore.  We have one political party that is blah and aimless, and we have another that is a violent separatist movement.  It would be nice if the remaining political party would realize that, because we're kind of in a fight for our lives.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Brisketexan

[atomheartbevo 89652]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

No it's not.  The party has already made its decision -- it is okay with violence, and it isn't embarrassed about January 6 at all.  This is the problem.

We don't have two political parties anymore.  We have one political party that is blah and aimless, and we have another that is a violent separatist movement.  It would be nice if the remaining political party would realize that, because we're kind of in a fight for our lives.

On the one hand, agree completely - the GOP has embraced the violence and isn't embarrassed about January 6.

On the other hand, the GOP lost the House, the Senate, and the White House within the last few years, and that was before January 6.  Nothing about January 6 is going to make the folks who had been sitting on the sidelines (not voting), or who were independent, sit up and say "ohhh, that's the party I want to support!"  And the GOP has jack shit to rally around - nobody gave a fuck about Hunter's laptop or who he was banging.

The GOP knows this, which is why they are freaked the fuck out and trying to make it as difficult as possible for various groups to vote.  But at the same time, they are making it harder for their own olds to vote, and they are pissing people off, who are going to make sure and vote just to spite them.  Hell, this latest stunt about "Trump could be made Speaker" is going to do wonders to drive up Democrat/Independent voting.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

And the Q idiots have jack shit to show so far, other than emptier bank accounts, and when September rolls around and Joe is still Prez, they'll be even more demoralized.   

[Brisketexan 105096]

26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The GOP knows this, which is why they are freaked the fuck out and trying to make it as difficult as possible for various groups to vote.  But at the same time, they are making it harder for their own olds to vote, and they are pissing people off, who are going to make sure and vote just to spite them.  Hell, this latest stunt about "Trump could be made Speaker" is going to do wonders to drive up Democrat/Independent voting.

....which is why they may give up on elections altogether and just shoot their way in to Congress.

Never forget that January 6 was a practice run.

[Macanudo 12976]

21 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They wish they could be one of Putin's side pieces

He already said Melania.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

....which is why they may give up on elections altogether and just shoot their way in to Congress.

Never forget that January 6 was a practice run.

They learned two things from that "practice" run:

1. Trump has no interest in helping to bail them out of their financial/legal difficulties, even as he took their money.
2. They are losing current jobs and losing out on future jobs, businesses, family and friends, and being humiliated forever on the internet

Dipshit Republicans can call them patriots who were just on a tour, but that doesn't pay their legal bills, nor does it win them their jobs or businesses back.

Now are there idiots who are glossing over all of the negatives (Trump refusing to help them, financial and legal issues, employment issues, etc.)?  Sure, but there's also a shitload who are watching them be arrested and identified and realizing that they don't want any part of that.  And plenty of those people know that they are the type that, had they been there, they would have been caught up in everything and would have went inside and fucked around, and it scares the shit out of them to think about the consequences.

And none of them tried to stop Biden's inauguration.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No it's not.  The party has already made its decision -- it is okay with violence, and it isn't embarrassed about January 6 at all.  This is the problem.

We don't have two political parties anymore.  We have one political party that is blah and aimless, and we have another that is a violent separatist movement.  It would be nice if the remaining political party would realize that, because we're kind of in a fight for our lives.

I see that the author's point sailed right over your head.

[Brisketexan 105096]

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They learned two things from that "practice" run:

1. Trump has no interest in helping to bail them out of their financial/legal difficulties, even as he took their money.
2. They are losing current jobs and losing out on future jobs, businesses, family and friends, and being humiliated forever on the internet

Dipshit Republicans can call them patriots who were just on a tour, but that doesn't pay their legal bills, nor does it win them their jobs or businesses back.

Now are there idiots who are glossing over all of the negatives (Trump refusing to help them, financial and legal issues, employment issues, etc.)?  Sure, but there's also a shitload who are watching them be arrested and identified and realizing that they don't want any part of that.  And plenty of those people know that they are the type that, had they been there, they would have been caught up in everything and would have went inside and fucked around, and it scares the shit out of them to think about the consequences.

And none of them tried to stop Biden's inauguration.

Huh.  I think they learned a lot more than that.

 

1.  The Capitol is lightly defended.

2.  It would be very easy to breach the building, with firearms, and kill as many members of Congress as you'd like.  Then force the remainder to take action that you demand.

3.  The GQP will happily support the end result and treat it as the law of the land, so long as it involves the GQP being at least nominally the party in power.

4.  And it probably only takes a couple dozen armed and remotely disciplined people (ex military?) to pull off the scenario above.

 

Those are the really dangerous lessons they learned.

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

Plus why put yourself out there when trump is actually secretly still in charge either from Florida or from the WH via face transplant. 
 

does lead to quite the predicament though, questioning the policy of the administration that you claim is still being run by your guy. 

[Brisketexan 105096]

3 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I see that the author's point sailed right over your head.

Nope.  The author's point was that the GQP is torn by a dilemma.  That is false.  There is no dilemma.  None.  There's no split.  They are all-in on taking and holding power by extra-electoral/extra-legal means.  The ones who SAY they're against it?  They'll happily accept those results, so long as they get to keep their seats.  Which means they are for it.

[BrickHorn 18219]

59 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Dipshit Republicans can call them patriots who were just on a tour, but that doesn't pay their legal bills, nor does it win them their jobs or businesses back.

Maybe a few hundred Trumpers — the ones who are currently working their way through the criminal justice system —learned their lesson. Maybe. 

But do you honestly think the remaining 99.999% of his followers learned a damned thing? Do you think they’ve internalized the hardships of the relatively few insurrectionists who got caught? If they did, do you honestly believe they blame Trump? 

No one in MAGA land learned shit from January 6 except that a little more planning and organization might have resulted in a successful takeover. All of the consequences these jackasses should be pondering are instead being blamed on nefarious bogeymen (Antifa, the FBI, etc.) Trumpublicans are perfectly pliable cultists. The idea that the limited fallout from January 6 will serve as anything other than confirmation of the justness of their previous coup attempt and motivation for them to try again is fucking naive.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Huh.  I think they learned a lot more than that.

1.  The Capitol is lightly defended.

2.  It would be very easy to breach the building, with firearms, and kill as many members of Congress as you'd like.  Then force the remainder to take action that you demand.

3.  The GQP will happily support the end result and treat it as the law of the land, so long as it involves the GQP being at least nominally the party in power.

4.  And it probably only takes a couple dozen armed and remotely disciplined people (ex military?) to pull off the scenario above.

Those are the really dangerous lessons they learned.

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Maybe a few hundred Trumpers — the ones who are currently working their way through the criminal justice system —learned their lesson. Maybe. 

But do you honestly think the remaining 99.999% of his followers learned a damned thing? Do you think they’ve internalized the hardships of the relatively few insurrectionists who got caught? If they did, do you honestly believe they blame Trump? 

No one in MAGA land learned shit from January 6 except that a little more planning and organization might have resulted in a successful takeover. All of the consequences these jackasses should be pondering are instead being blamed on nefarious bogeymen (Antifa, the FBI, etc.) Trumpublicans are perfectly pliable cultists. The idea that the limited fallout from January 6 will serve as anything other than confirmation of the justness of their previous coup attempt and motivation for them to try again is fucking naive.

Where have they been since then?  Why haven't they been knocking off Democrats at the state or national level?  Why didn't they try and stop Biden's inauguration?  Why didn't they turn out in March for Donnie's "actual" inauguration?  Why aren't they prepping for his "other actual" inauguration in August?

It's fucking June, and they haven't risen up and taken over any statehouses or the Capitol, they haven't knocked off any sitting Governors.

These people are idiotic fucking cowards.  The testimony/statements in court from the 1/6 fallout show it.

5-and-a-half fucking months since 1/6 and they aren't doing shit other than posting on TexAgs or whining about Republicans who don't have Trump's endorsement.

Call me when they start strapping on suicide vests, or getting together and storming some state's legislature in a hail of gunfire, or knocking off a governor with an IED.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

I care for the Antifa folks about as much as I do for the GQPers, but for fuck's sake, the Antifa crowd shows up with actual gear to protect themselves, and medics. to take care of everything from injuries caused by pepper balls or rubber bullets to tear gas to whatever.

These fucking GQPers showed up with fucking selfie sticks so they could film themselves walking around, which was then used against them in court, after it was used to identify them.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Plus why put yourself out there when trump is actually secretly still in charge either from Florida or from the WH via face transplant. 

does lead to quite the predicament though, questioning the policy of the administration that you claim is still being run by your guy. 

Like "why isn't Trump pardoning us? I don't get it.  Is he waiting until we serve our time?  I've lost my business, why isn't he helping me, he said he'd have my back?"

[Captainant 27655]

18 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Where have they been since then?  Why haven't they been knocking off Democrats at the state or national level?  Why didn't they try and stop Biden's inauguration?  Why didn't they turn out in March for Donnie's "actual" inauguration?  Why aren't they prepping for his "other actual" inauguration in August?

It's fucking June, and they haven't risen up and taken over any statehouses or the Capitol, they haven't knocked off any sitting Governors.

These people are idiotic fucking cowards.  The testimony/statements in court from the 1/6 fallout show it.

5-and-a-half fucking months since 1/6 and they aren't doing shit other than posting on TexAgs or whining about Republicans who don't have Trump's endorsement.

Call me when they start strapping on suicide vests, or getting together and storming some state's legislature in a hail of gunfire, or knocking off a governor with an IED.

Historically speaking, there's usually a year or two between fascist insurrections. Typically the next one happens around the next political inflection point such as an election or end of term. So it's not much comfort that there hasn't been any further action considering we still haven't done shit to punish those who instigated, enabled, and spread the planning for the attack

[BrickHorn 18219]

23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Where have they been since then?

Where were all of Hitler’s little buddies after the Beer Hall Putsch?

Trumpers are busy curtailing voting rights and electing or appointing partisan yes-men to election oversight positions. They’re exchanging stupid conspiracy theories and race war fantasies with their idiot friends on dark corners of moron.com. They’re getting themselves mentally prepared to claim election fraud and support fascist power grabs justified by that pretext next year and in 2024. 

This shit isn’t over. It’s simmering. Hardly anyone on the right continues to condemn the January 6 assault. The vast majority run active interference and spread apologetic propaganda on behalf of the fascists. Meanwhile, you’re whistling past the graveyard.

 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/

Go through that interactive article & then go get in line on the Ledge. The cancer is growing.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Huh.  I think they learned a lot more than that.

 

1.  The Capitol is lightly defended.

2.  It would be very easy to breach the building, with firearms, and kill as many members of Congress as you'd like.  Then force the remainder to take action that you demand.

3.  The GQP will happily support the end result and treat it as the law of the land, so long as it involves the GQP being at least nominally the party in power.

4.  And it probably only takes a couple dozen armed and remotely disciplined people (ex military?) to pull off the scenario above.

 

Those are the really dangerous lessons they learned.

It was lightly defended because trump was the president and he wanted it that way. 
 

As I’m sure you are aware, possession is 90 percent of the law. The democratic party possesses exclusive control of the executive branch now and for the next four years. The trumpkins are in for some hard sledding going forward. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

I'm less concerned about Qidiots attacking DC again and more worried about what they're going to do at the local level. Shit, a city council in Sequim, WA appointed a Q-nut as mayor not long ago. Idyllic town of 7,000 just outside ONP. The citizens are trying to get him thrown out but the GQP city council wants him there, and there isn't money in the budget for a special election to get him out.

How long until something similar happens in Texas? Hell, our governor, lt governor, attorney general & those looking to run for said seats are sucking the Cheeto's balls in hopes of an endorsement.

[atomheartbevo 89652]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

Historically speaking, there's usually a year or two between fascist insurrections. Typically the next one happens around the next political inflection point such as an election or end of term. So it's not much comfort that there hasn't been any further action considering we still haven't done shit to punish those who instigated, enabled, and spread the planning for the attack

3 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Where were all of Hitler’s little buddies after the Beer Hall Putsch?

There's a big difference between 2021 and 1923 Germany.

Does HItler and Co. still rise to power if photos and videos all of their actions are blasted across all of the available media across the entire country, if all of their backgrounds (various failures, perversions such as incest, etc.) were blasted across all of the available media? Something that was happening in Munich didn't always make it over to Hamburg, because Hamburg people were dealing with Hamburg shit - the 1920s were a shitty time in Germany.  The Beer Hall Putsch certainly shocked the country, and Hitler was able to use the trial to basically introduce himself to the country in a manner in which he wanted to be introduced.  That's not the case in 2021.   The McCloskey fucks don't get to introduce themselves to the nation through their own words with a carefully crafted narrative - instead, you see their fucking insanity of pointing firearms at people walking by, showing the world how not to handle firearms, and just looking like scared little snowflakes standing in front of their ugly-ass mansion.

Here in 2021, we hear about a fucking cat stuck in a well half-way across the country, or about a real-estate agent who took a private plane to the protests, and the internet doesn't forget.  When an employer or investor or customer hits up Google and sees somebody doing something really fucking stupid/awful, that's going to affect them.

 

[atomheartbevo 89652]

3 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

I'm less concerned about Qidiots attacking DC again and more worried about what they're going to do at the local level. Shit, a city council in Sequim, WA appointed a Q-nut as mayor not long ago. Idyllic town of 7,000 just outside ONP. The citizens are trying to get him thrown out but the GQP city council wants him there, and there isn't money in the budget for a special election to get him out.

How long until something similar happens in Texas? Hell, our governor, lt governor, attorney general & those looking to run for said seats are sucking the Cheeto's balls in hopes of an endorsement.

It's a problem, but thankfully these people are willing to out themselves on the internet and through social media.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:00 AM, atomheartbevo said:

And the Q idiots have jack shit to show so far, other than emptier bank accounts, and when September December Feb '22  May '22 ___ ? ___? rolls around and Joe is still Prez, they'll be even more demoralized.   

It's a sure thing.  Just you wait & see.

[BrickHorn 18219]

19 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/

Go through that interactive article & then go get in line on the Ledge. The cancer is growing.

Yep. That CNN profile series reveals how unrealistic atomheartbevo’s optimism is. 

[Sawbonz 27547]

Y’all ledge sitters point out the last successful violent overthrow of government in a country not in the midst of an economic crisis with starvation and collapse of governmental services 

[atomheartbevo 89652]

35 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Yep. That CNN profile series reveals how unrealistic atomheartbevo’s optimism is. 

Why aren't they acting?  Why aren't they rising up?  The Watkins boys shut down Q, but plenty of Republicans and Alex Jones wannabes have been trying to encourage them, but they aren't doing shit.

Are they waiting to make sure they have a government informant in their midst before they act, so they can be quickly arrested?

And don't say "well it takes a year or two for things to happen" because that may have applied in 1921, but in 2021, people get stirred up on social media within minutes - shit the whole Jan 6th thing, outside of the militia groups, the rest of the "tourists" jumped in because Trump encouraged them and they couldn't wait to livestream themselves to social media.

Or maybe the very social media that allows them to quickly organize, also allows them to constantly vent on a nation-wide scale to fellow "patriots", which maybe reduces the steam in the pressure cooker quite a bit.  That and internet porn.

[Sawbonz 27547]

Or maybe there aren’t enough fat dudes with roofs over their heads and high speed internets who are angry or loony enough for an effective armed revolt

[Brisketexan 105096]

55 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Y’all ledge sitters point out the last successful violent overthrow of government in a country not in the midst of an economic crisis with starvation and collapse of governmental services 

Wilmington insurrection of 1898.  Not a whole country, but absolutely an overthrown government, and right here in the good ole USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898#:~:text=The coup was the result,Fusionist biracial government in Wilmington.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

29 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wilmington insurrection of 1898.  Not a whole country, but absolutely an overthrown government, and right here in the good ole USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898#:~:text=The coup was the result,Fusionist biracial government in Wilmington.

One of the more terrifying stories in American history. These insurrectionists even had their own  “White Declaration of Independence.”  

[wildcat09 29349]

22 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Where have they been since then?  Why haven't they been knocking off Democrats at the state or national level?  Why didn't they try and stop Biden's inauguration?  Why didn't they turn out in March for Donnie's "actual" inauguration?  Why aren't they prepping for his "other actual" inauguration in August?

It's fucking June, and they haven't risen up and taken over any statehouses or the Capitol, they haven't knocked off any sitting Governors.

These people are idiotic fucking cowards.  The testimony/statements in court from the 1/6 fallout show it.

5-and-a-half fucking months since 1/6 and they aren't doing shit other than posting on TexAgs or whining about Republicans who don't have Trump's endorsement.

Call me when they start strapping on suicide vests, or getting together and storming some state's legislature in a hail of gunfire, or knocking off a governor with an IED.

The most dangerous elements of the right largely disappeared from the public eye after Charlottesville until the "gun rights" protest in Virginia in January 2020. We all know what followed. Them being quiet for awhile doesn't mean they're no longer a threat.

[Sawbonz 27547]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Wilmington insurrection of 1898.  Not a whole country, but absolutely an overthrown government, and right here in the good ole USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898#:~:text=The coup was the result,Fusionist biracial government in Wilmington.

So none

[wildcat09 29349]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Y’all ledge sitters point out the last successful violent overthrow of government in a country not in the midst of an economic crisis with starvation and collapse of governmental services 

It's not exactly hard to imagine another economic crash and the collapse of some basic services. This is specific to Texas at the moment, but we're all already watching the ERCOT grid conditions pretty much daily. California isn't much better than us, and the GOP has already annihilated government services in infrastructure in plenty of states they control.  

If they retake the House in 2022 (which they're probably favored to do at the moment) they'll be able to do a lot more damage and they'll have at least some substantial success blaming the resulting fallout on Democrats, because Democrats are worthless at political messaging. Shit is much more fragile than you're acknowledging.

[Sawbonz 27547]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not exactly hard to imagine another economic crash and the collapse of some basic services. This is specific to Texas at the moment, but we're all already watching the ERCOT grid conditions pretty much daily. California isn't much better than us, and the GOP has already annihilated government services in infrastructure in plenty of states they control.  

If they retake the House in 2022 (which they're probably favored to do at the moment) they'll be able to do a lot more damage and they'll have at least some substantial success blaming the resulting fallout on Democrats, because Democrats are worthless at political messaging. Shit is much more fragile than you're acknowledging.

I’m not saying it can’t happen. I’m saying the chain of events that have to happen collectively for it to happen is highly unlikely, and certainly not worth the amount of handwringing seen around here. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21191]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not exactly hard to imagine another economic crash and the collapse of some basic services. This is specific to Texas at the moment, but we're all already watching the ERCOT grid conditions pretty much daily. California isn't much better than us, and the GOP has already annihilated government services in infrastructure in plenty of states they control.  

If they retake the House in 2022 (which they're probably favored to do at the moment) they'll be able to do a lot more damage and they'll have at least some substantial success blaming the resulting fallout on Democrats, because Democrats are worthless at political messaging. Shit is much more fragile than you're acknowledging.

If a combination of this and dotard running again, and losing, in 24 happens....it will be scary AF. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not saying it can’t happen. I’m saying the chain of events that have to happen collectively for it to happen is highly unlikely, and certainly not worth the amount of handwringing seen around here. 

Famous last words

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Some of these folks are willing to die fighting for Donald Trump or whatever fever dream they get fed.  They’ve already proven it and our previous collective negligence on this stuff is how they’ve gotten this far. 

[Brisketexan 105096]

It's not exactly hard to imagine another economic crash and the collapse of some basic services. This is specific to Texas at the moment, but we're all already watching the ERCOT grid conditions pretty much daily. California isn't much better than us, and the GOP has already annihilated government services in infrastructure in plenty of states they control.  
If they retake the House in 2022 (which they're probably favored to do at the moment) they'll be able to do a lot more damage and they'll have at least some substantial success blaming the resulting fallout on Democrats, because Democrats are worthless at political messaging. Shit is much more fragile than you're acknowledging.

This. In fact, the “failed state” aspects of our existence that keep piling up are not a bug of the GQP world, they are a feature.

They need the people to be miserable and suffering, so they’re angry (and no matter whose fault it REALLY is, it’s always the libtard dems’ fault). Anger is the currency of the GQP. They need people to be miserable, or at least be convinced they’re miserable. And the GQP is very, very good at that.

[Post Oak 20210]

On 6/20/2021 at 5:55 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

From the LA Times: The GOP is in trouble. Apologize for the wonky formatting. 


 

  Reveal hidden contents

By DOYLE MCMANUSWASHINGTON COLUMNIST 

JUNE 20, 2021 4 AM PT

The Republican Party has a problem with political violence: It’s not sure whether it’s for it or against it.

In the first days after a mob loyal to former President Trump stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 to try to block Congress from certifying President Biden’s election, GOP leaders delivered a sensible, unified response: There’s no place in our constitutional system for that kind of violence.

Since January, though, some leading Republicans have been backsliding — offering excuses for the insurgents who sought to overturn the election through extralegal means.

Rep. Andrew S. Clyde of Georgia has likened the forced entrance of the Capitol to “a normal tourist visit.” Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar complained last month that the FBI was “harassing peaceful patriots” by investigating the events. Twenty-one House Republicans voted against awarding a medal to the Capitol Police for attempting to defend the building; several said they objected to calling the riot an “insurrection.”

Last week, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin defended the protesters, too. “The vast majority of the crowd, they were in a jovial mood,” he said last week. “They weren’t violent.”

And retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who served briefly as Trump’s national security advisor, recently told an audience that a Myanmar-like coup “should happen here.” He later denied having said that, but it was captured on videotape.

These are not good signs for the Republican Party.

Those comments don’t reflect the sentiments of every Republican. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy of Bakersfield have both condemned the Jan. 6 riot.

But a significant chunk of the party’s most fervent supporters aren’t so sure, and they illustrate the GOP’s dilemma. At a time when the party needs every vote it can muster, it can’t risk alienating loyal supporters, even if they embrace violence.

In a survey by the conservative American Enterprise Institute after the riot in January, 56% of Republicans agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

In the same poll, 79% of Republicans said they still had a favorable view of Trump — and 36% said “very favorable.”

That consensus has made GOP politicians fearful of crossing Trump or questioning the actions of his most zealous supporters, including the Jan. 6 revolutionaries.

Republican officials in both Georgia and Arizona, where Trump is still agitating to reverse the election results, say their families have been physically threatened by the former president’s supporters.

When the House voted to impeach Trump in January, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) told CNN, “There were members who told me that they were afraid for their own security — afraid, in some instances, for their lives.”

The result, says Tufts University political scholar Daniel Drezner, is a GOP that has begun to resemble Lebanon’s Hezbollah, “a political party that also has an armed wing to coerce other political actors through violence.”

“The comparison is stronger now than before,” Drezner told me last week. “The Republicans who wanted to impeach Trump have been marginalized, and the state parties sound more and more secessionist with each passing day.”

The willingness of right-wing extremists to resort to violence didn’t begin on Jan. 6 — and Trump has long sounded as if he was encouraging them.

Amid the COVID-19 pandemic last year, for example, he urged supporters to “liberate” their states from Democratic governors. Trump backers in Michigan responded by storming the state Capitol, and six were later indicted on suspicion of plotting to kidnap and murder Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

Before Jan. 6, Trump summoned his loyalists to Washington (“Will be wild!” he promised) and told them: “If you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.” His defenders said he didn’t mean for the word “fight” to incite actual combat.

At this point, some readers may ask: But what about the Democrats? Don’t they have a violent fringe, too?

Not really. The antifa movement, which conservatives point to as an example of left-wing violence, isn’t part of the Democratic Party; its militants don’t wave Biden flags, show up at Biden rallies or, in most cases, support Biden at all. And while Republicans have attacked Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) for urging demonstrators to “get more confrontational,” that comparison doesn’t hold, either; whatever Waters meant by those words, she isn’t her party’s two-time presidential nominee and leader-in-exile.

This is the Republican Party’s problem, and Republicans need to solve it.

They are trying to tiptoe around a fundamental problem: Their candidate lost a presidential election, but he not only refuses to accept the voters’ verdict; he wants his party to “fight” to restore him to power.

They want to move past the embarrassment of Jan. 6 — but that can’t happen until they settle their internal debate: Are they a party that condones extraconstitutional violence or not?

 

A more apt title would be "America has a GOP problem"

[Brisketexan 105096]

46 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So none

I'd suggest that if you are taking the position of "a violent overthrow of a government can't happen here," then an example of.....a violent overthrow of a government here....is rather illuminating.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Wilmington insurrection of 1898.  Not a whole country, but absolutely an overthrown government, and right here in the good ole USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898#:~:text=The coup was the result,Fusionist biracial government in Wilmington.

That was not an isolated incident -- the Jaybird-Woodpecker was pretty much that exact scenario right around that same time*. I think the difference is a gigantic majority white male Americans were titanically racist, ranging up from sharecroppers and factory workers to everyone in Congress, the president and all the BMDs. Bi- and tri- and multiracial governments today are so common we take them for granted.

America as a whole sold out on freed slaves. 

Now there are certainly thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands or even a million or two yahoos willing to commit political violence for Trump. That is a lot of people but a far cry from the majority of the nation's "right-thinking" citizens.

*To this day there is a monument in downtown Richmond, TX the "brave white men" who "restored order and good government" to Fort Bend County. I find it more disgusting than any Civil War memorial because there are exactly zero fig leaves you can use to conceal this naked ode to White supremacy. No states' rights, no heritage not hate, no "I just want to honor my ancestors, who were only common soldiers," etc. This is just a Fuck You to Black people and liberals, and have no idea why it's still standing. 

[Sawbonz 27547]

38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'd suggest that if you are taking the position of "a violent overthrow of a government can't happen here," then an example of.....a violent overthrow of a government here....is rather illuminating.

Ok counselor. In a contract dispute, omitting a definite article may allow you to shoehorn in the argument you are trying to make, but not on a message board of cretins like we have here. When I said government I meant THE government of the country, not some local municipality. So do you have any such examples? Or maybe you think Elgin needs to watch its ass?

[Brisketexan 105096]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Ok counselor. In a contract dispute, omitting a definite article may allow you to shoehorn in the argument you are trying to make, but not on a message board of cretins like we have here. When I said government I meant THE government of the country, not some local municipality. So do you have any such examples? Or maybe you think Elgin needs to watch its ass?

I ALWAYS think Elgin needs to watch its ass, because of those shifty bastards in Manor, but that's beside the point.

I don't have examples of a well-to-do western government being overthrown by such a mob.  Then again, till Germany in the 30s, I didn't have an example of a modern European country building a massive machine of genocide.  There's always someone bucking to be first in any shitty category.  And, the fact that numerous factors DO track with successful violent authoritarian seizures of power should trouble anyone who is paying attention.  The number of plays being run that come directly out of the mid-20th century fascist playbook is problematic as shit.

[Sawbonz 27547]

Fair enough. But we have rehashed over and over on this and other threads the unique set of circumstances in Germany post World War I with reparations, a debased currency, military a shambles, and an elderly leader all in the setting of a global depression. Add the very real threat of a communist takeover, and you have a perfect storm without which Hitler would not have stood a chance. Again, it will take a very unique set of circumstances for anything like that to happen here. Could it? Of course. I wouldn’t bet money on it happening

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

We haven’t lived in a world with this much social media, disinformation, technology, and wealth inequality, so I feel like we are in the process of a preventable cautionary tale right now.  

[Brisketexan 105096]

12 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Fair enough. But we have rehashed over and over on this and other threads the unique set of circumstances in Germany post World War I with reparations, a debased currency, military a shambles, and an elderly leader all in the setting of a global depression. Add the very real threat of a communist takeover, and you have a perfect storm without which Hitler would not have stood a chance. Again, it will take a very unique set of circumstances for anything like that to happen here. Could it? Of course. I wouldn’t bet money on it happening

And I don't disagree with you.  Is it more likely than not?  Absolutely not.

Are the chances unacceptably high?  Fuck yeah they are.

We live in a country that SHOULD be pegged at a .1% chance of violent, authoritarian overthrow, max.  Today, we're at.....what, maybe 10% chance?  That's low.  But it's also WAY too fucking high.  Ask the 17 men executed after they drew a black bean on the Mier expedition.  We should never, ever be in a position where we're drawing with a 1 in 10 shot of getting a black bean.  Or even a 1 in 20 shot.

[Sawbonz 27547]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Today, we're at.....what, maybe 10% chance? 

Disagree it’s that high but it’s not really quantifiable. I would say less than 1%. My worry is legal usurpation by changing laws. I put that at about 10%.  And if that happens it’s what we deserve

[Brisketexan 105096]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Disagree it’s that high but it’s not really quantifiable. I would say less than 1%. My worry is legal usurpation by changing laws. I put that at about 10%.  And if that happens it’s what we deserve

The legal usurpation is a tool to get to the thing we're afraid of, not an end in itself.  Misinformation, voter suppression, and ultimately, violence, are all tools to achieve the same goal: authoritarian rule by the minority.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 with roofs over their heads

It's all easy goings right up until the end of the job when the customer comes outside & says "Hell, if I'd-a known you had all-a them Messicans up there, I wouldn't have let them on my proppity."

[Sawbonz 27547]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The legal usurpation is a tool to get to the thing we're afraid of, not an end in itself.  Misinformation, voter suppression, and ultimately, violence, are all tools to achieve the same goal: authoritarian rule by the minority.

I think you’ve got that backwards, especially if you want to continue the comparisons with Germany. The brown shirts outnumbered the German army 2-3 to one and used violence to suppress the vote. Without that violence the nazi party never gains control