The Batshit Insane QAnon Conspiracy Theory

[Pancho 44,437]

Yeah, she’s a single mom is going to be my deduced guess. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, I can see the jumping from one stone to the other because it kinda feels like a mini-rush to go down this path that only a select few even know exists.  But after a few steps, most people would pause and say, "That doesn't make sense at all, let me research that on my own and come back/not come back."  All humans are designed with critical thinking and higher reasoning.  Most people can even turn it off to play with their kids, enjoy a movie, or join an improv troupe.  But just as that's the case, there are some that can't engage their critical thinking skills when they need them most.  There are instances in all of our lives where our cognitive awareness can't engage the critical thinking fast enough/consciously enough.  This explains everything from impulse buys to substance abuse.  It happens to all of us multiple times a day, the inertia of our lives just allows us to gloss over something that needed contemplative thinking.  The Qanon crowd, I think, suffers from the opposite.  Whereas most humans have a default or reason/critique and have to engage (passive or actively) the skipper over of critical thinking...their default is that it is turned off and they have to actively engage it (likely only at work).  

Several folks discussed this upthread...what makes this movement so different?  Preying on people looking for answers, that have led broken lives?  That's called organized religion and drugs.  Society has been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.  People looking to validate their intolerant beliefs, feel part of a special group fighting for what's right, and have a little fun along the way with conspiracy theories?  Social media, internet chat rooms, fax machine chains, HAM radio operators, back to secret conversations via telegraph.  

This one is wildly different for some reason.  

She admitted she was vulnerable--lost her job, isolated because of the pandemic. It was talked about before that many of the strongest adherents are broken people leading broken lives due to a variety of reasons and issues--some wholly outside their control just as you mention above. But her mentioning the algorithm is probably one of the biggest clues: when you combine Trump's priming the pump (don't trust the news, fake news) along with the algorithm that knows what you want before you want it, it is very seductive and can ignite a conversion flame quicker than a preacher at a revival. Salem Witch Trial speed and fury combined with the isolation bubble has got to be toxic. Again, as you said--they have the answers: "this will happen, this will occur here, and then you will be special/saved/rewarded/employed once more."

Not an excuse, and I don't think applicable in her situation, but PPD in women with small children can mess with thoughts in a big big way. I had some of that and it was absolutely awful but that is only in retrospect. When I was suffering, I had no idea anything was wrong. It was my spouse and family that could tell. One of the worst things about the pandemic was the reluctance of leadership to proactively encourage outdoor social distance events that get people moving and engaged w/o increasing exposure.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

NewsMax is scarred shitless, too.  The MyPillow guy is too MAGA even for them. They pulled the plug on his interview after reading a statement that was obviously written by their lawyers:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pillow-guy-mike-lindell-newsmax-interview_n_6019d41ec5b684e5709dd2fa

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

1 hour ago, Homercles said:

Honey Boo Boo grew up fast

"I was the biggest Trump supporter there was."

Meh, she probably doesn't even weigh four hundred pounds.

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

Vic is pissed off. He kinda stays pissed off.

He's got a Youtube channel. 

[Guest Lobo]

So why would Biden agree to the face-swapping surgery if it meant he would have to stand trial as Trump, but really be punished for what he (Biden) has done?  

I mean, look...as a Patriot...I'm all in for an experimental procedure where they saw my face off my head and then staple the face of the most vile human being in our nation onto me.  That sounds like my American duty. I'll be dammed if I'm gonna sit here and listen to this Democratic-led Senate badmouth the United State of America.  Gentlemen!  

Serious question---do you think Qanon could reach some sort of critical mass where it's not the "in" thing anymore?  I assume there's a delicate balance right now between it having the allure of being "off-the-grid" and only embraced by a few million Americans and then it having enough followers in mainstream life where the really dedicated followers can look around and think, "Okay, if there's this many of us...we have to be on to something-right?"  It has to stay fringe for purposes of mystique and passion, but has to onboard enough followers so they can't just be dismissed as a few hundred random kooks.  You see this with movements, products, events, online sites, etc in America ever year...it's cool and underground then it expands and gets more mainstream but eventually just hits too much of the mass market and the "it" factor is deflated from it and it's reduced to the periphery forever, or it makes some desperate pivot down the road. 

The Qanon believers put their numbers at about 10% of America.  I think that's too high just given how many MAGA folks I know.  But I'd say it's probably getting close to that.  It's at least 1/3rd of the maga movement is Qanon, so yeah---maybe 25-30 million does make sense, so 1 in 7 adults.  So what's the marketing "critical mass" of this movement?  When is it took big where many begin to think it's just another manipulation tool to control the masses and they break off for something else?  

[Kyrie Eleison 9,312]

27 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Vic is pissed off. He kinda stays pissed off.

He's got a Youtube channel. 

[Mole 4,319]

We should keep celebrating these ex Q people: treat them like America heroes; even put up statues that we can tear down 100 years from now. It’s very difficult to go so public and admit just how lost from reality you were. It’s very affirming to see this happening.

As to the percentage of Q adherents, some Q ideas have seemed to infect the mainstream. Your next door neighbor might not believe that you’re JFK Jr. in a new lizard person form, but they might have believed the Wayfair sex trafficking thing or something else that is Q light.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Mole

[Beau Vine 53,978]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, I can see the jumping from one stone to the other because it kinda feels like a mini-rush to go down this path that only a select few even know exists.  But after a few steps, most people would pause and say, "That doesn't make sense at all, let me research that on my own and come back/not come back."  All humans are designed with critical thinking and higher reasoning.  Most people can even turn it off to play with their kids, enjoy a movie, or join an improv troupe.  But just as that's the case, there are some that can't engage their critical thinking skills when they need them most.  There are instances in all of our lives where our cognitive awareness can't engage the critical thinking fast enough/consciously enough.  This explains everything from impulse buys to substance abuse.  It happens to all of us multiple times a day, the inertia of our lives just allows us to gloss over something that needed contemplative thinking.  The Qanon crowd, I think, suffers from the opposite.  Whereas most humans have a default or reason/critique and have to engage (passive or actively) the skipper over of critical thinking...their default is that it is turned off and they have to actively engage it (likely only at work).  

I have identified the problem.

[wildcat09 29,213]

 

This is not fucking helpful you morons.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, just after you mention the GOP and Qanon...shut up and stop talking.  No reason to mention the college-education divide.  there's still more than enough non-college white voters out there, who probably tilt conservative have worked hard to cobble out a lifestyle that does not involve being lumped in with fucking lunatics.  Maybe not 74 million of them, but more than enough to fashion a coalition of 10-20mm voters who are white, range from independent/centrist to right of center, and not wanting to sashay  the GOP/Qanon dance to the bottom.  Do not pull some basket of deplorables shit and alienate them right now.  

But the GOP/Qanon courtship is certainly way more than fair game.  Broadcast it morning, noon, and night.  I'd make it a part of every interview with every Republican.  Don't ask them to denounce it, just ask and just keep it political, never personal.  "

Senator Cruz, Qanon and it's 25 million followers---many of whom are supporters and voters of yours---are reporting this morning that Joe Biden is going to allow China to come and take their babies.  What are you doing, as a lawmaker, to prevent these American babies from being, quote...Shanghaied to Shanghai?" "

[Guest Lobo]

nmnm

Edited February 3, 2021 by Lobo

[Biff Tannen 45,491]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

 

This is not fucking helpful you morons.

Getting hammered in the comments

 

[atomheartbevo 89,396]

7 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I still just don't get this.  Even if you're depressed and sucked into the internet world, where is your rational thought process?  There is no critical thinking here at all.

6 hours ago, Lobo said:

Several folks discussed this upthread...what makes this movement so different?  Preying on people looking for answers, that have led broken lives?  That's called organized religion and drugs.  Society has been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.  People looking to validate their intolerant beliefs, feel part of a special group fighting for what's right, and have a little fun along the way with conspiracy theories?  Social media, internet chat rooms, fax machine chains, HAM radio operators, back to secret conversations via telegraph.  

This one is wildly different for some reason.  

It wasn't that hard to pull off.

Go watch Social Dilemma on Netflix.

Now go back and look at how popular supermarket tabloids were in the past, the ones that had the batshittery going on (and Bat Boy!).  Go look at the UFO people.  Go look at various offshoots of various religions in here in the US that took things a little too far.  Go look at the prepper and/or militia movements that were scared shitless of the government (and ironically some of their actions brought the government into their lives, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts).

Part of what made all of this different, is that thanks to the internet/social media, these people  were connected to one another, and they kept being fed stories that "they might like".

But there's something else that took it to another level:  Friends and family didn't push back, they simply hit "IGNORE" OR "BLOCK" or whatever on their social media platform.

And even worse:  Politicians encouraged these people, because they saw these people as easy marks (and they certainly were easy marks).  They sent their money and their votes to the politicians who tolerated/encouraged these people.

The UFO movement didn't have a bunch of people in Congress or the White House encouraging them to believe some wild-ass shit.  The fringe Mormons in West Texas didn't have somebody in the White House saying "is it really illegal to have multiple wives?  I don't know, I'm just saying I've heard people talking about whether it's illegal or not.  That maybe something we should look into to." 

Edited February 3, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89,396]

5 hours ago, Lobo said:

Serious question---do you think Qanon could reach some sort of critical mass where it's not the "in" thing anymore?  I assume there's a delicate balance right now between it having the allure of being "off-the-grid" and only embraced by a few million Americans and then it having enough followers in mainstream life where the really dedicated followers can look around and think, "Okay, if there's this many of us...we have to be on to something-right?"  It has to stay fringe for purposes of mystique and passion, but has to onboard enough followers so they can't just be dismissed as a few hundred random kooks. 

It hit critical mass on January 6th, well more like shortly thereafter, when they began to be arrested, when Biden was still sworn in, when it came out that they killed a cop, and that one of their own was killed, when they began to lose jobs, watch their businesses suffer, etc. and they saw various politicians they believed in saying that they went to far.

Up until that moment, they felt pretty bulletproof (no pun intended - that woman was mentally ill, and it's a shame her life ended the way it did).

All of the sudden, there was a massive pushback from family, friends, customers, etc., who had all been ignoring their batshittery.

Don't get me wrong - it's hardened a very small group of these people - it's reinforced the bunker/martyr mentality they were already cultivating.  But those on the fringes, who weren't quite subsumed by it, it's driving them off after they saw the fallout, saw that no matter what happened on the 6th, Biden was still sworn in.

[gyroprotagonist 2,591]

5 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

NewsMax is scarred shitless, too.  The MyPillow guy is too MAGA even for them. They pulled the plug on his interview after reading a statement that was obviously written by their lawyers:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pillow-guy-mike-lindell-newsmax-interview_n_6019d41ec5b684e5709dd2fa

yep, lol.  Texags was like "I guess OAN is only mainstream news source left now"

[wildcat09 29,213]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, just after you mention the GOP and Qanon...shut up and stop talking.  No reason to mention the college-education divide.  there's still more than enough non-college white voters out there, who probably tilt conservative have worked hard to cobble out a lifestyle that does not involve being lumped in with fucking lunatics.  Maybe not 74 million of them, but more than enough to fashion a coalition of 10-20mm voters who are white, range from independent/centrist to right of center, and not wanting to sashay  the GOP/Qanon dance to the bottom.  Do not pull some basket of deplorables shit and alienate them right now.  

But the GOP/Qanon courtship is certainly way more than fair game.  Broadcast it morning, noon, and night.  I'd make it a part of every interview with every Republican.  Don't ask them to denounce it, just ask and just keep it political, never personal.  "

Senator Cruz, Qanon and it's 25 million followers---many of whom are supporters and voters of yours---are reporting this morning that Joe Biden is going to allow China to come and take their babies.  What are you doing, as a lawmaker, to prevent these American babies from being, quote...Shanghaied to Shanghai?" "

Oh yeah, drape QAnon all over the GOP, but don't fucking act like QAnon are all uneducated yokels. It's both false and incredibly stupid politics.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh yeah, drape QAnon all over the GOP, but don't fucking act like QAnon are all uneducated yokels. It's both false and incredibly stupid politics.

It's the quiet part out loud. The whole Neoliberal Dem agenda involves jettisoning the unions and working class in favor of a coalition of minorities and a meritocratic, suburban elite. 

It's been that way since the '80s; I'd say Mondale was the last of the old-school FDR coalition Dems. Once he got trounced they decided that was no longer a working model.

This new one is not working as well as they would hope, to wit:

Quote

“No guarantees, there never are, but the odds are more likely than not that we will take back the Senate,” Sen. Chuck Schumer said at a forum sponsored by the Washington Post Thursday afternoon. Schumer will be the next majority or minority leader of the Senate Democrats, depending upon how November unfolds. He suggested that the electorate’s sense of economic gloom was actually working to his party’s advantage: “The electorate is moving in a more Democratic direction. When middle class incomes decline, people tend to move in a more progressive direction.”

Schumer’s optimism is driven more by national demographics than by the specific traits of his candidates. He contends that Millennials, or voters aged 18 to 35, will be the largest age group voting in this year’s electorate, even if they don’t turn out in massive numbers.

“The number one factor in whether we retake the Senate is whether Hillary Clinton does well, and I think she’s going to do really well,” Schumer says of his former fellow New York senator. He notes that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell urged Senate Republicans in difficult races to localize their elections, rather than get too tied to Trump’s positions and comments and scoffs, “Sorry, Mitch, this is a national election if there ever was one.”

At least publicly, Schumer has no worries about his party’s dwindling fortunes among working-class white voters. “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

Totally failed in 2016 and barely squeaked in this year. Yet another "Blue Wave" fizzled before it got past the last sandbar. 

And when middle class incomes decline, some voters go progressive and others go fascist. It's not the 2-1 progressive break Schumer thinks it is, and it's especially not going that way when your party offers those declining middle class voters very little tangible in return, and your party from the leadership on down brands them as deplorables and shames them as racists and homophobes. 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[BrickHorn 18,186]

6 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The whole Neoliberal Dem agenda involves jettisoning the unions and working class in favor of a coalition of minorities and a meritocratic, suburban elite. 

I don’t think they intend to jettison labor. It’s just that the coffee house liberals forget their audience and end up acting like condescending pricks. 

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t think they intend to jettison labor. It’s just that the coffee house liberals forget their audience and end up acting like condescending pricks. 

 

Plenty of evidence to the contrary:

Democrats Paid a Huge Price for Letting Unions Die

How Democrats Lost Union Workers (article by Chuck Jones, Former President of United Steelworkers Local 1999 (Indianapolis)

The Democrats’ Labor Pains: How can unions rebuild their alliance with a party warming to free trade?

 

The DNC, as usual, shifts blame to the GOP for the destruction of unions, but they have been extremely complicit.

The unions, both rank and file and leadership, can see this, and so they went over to Trump in droves. Of course he didn't do shit for them but he at least understood their plight and addressed them in speeches, and he dreaded running against Sanders because Sanders also understands this, or more accurately, is willing to stump about it. Trump repeatedly crowed about how he just hammered the Dems on the issue of foreign trade -- one of a few ways he actually ran to the left of the Democrats. 

Not that long ago, Galveston and Jefferson counties would go blue because of all the union jobs.  Now that relationship has been severed, that's no longer the case. Repeat that across the Rust Belt 500 times. 

 

[Francisco 2.0 32,313]

 

 

[NWBuck 8,547]

4 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

That's because the same motherfuckers won't get vaccinated for either one.

[ROFL BOX 6,647]

My son, a 23-year-old army vet, put it pretty well a week or two ago: "The Republican Party is going supernova."
Collapsing into a Black Hole. 

Yeah, but they aren't washing away the rain.

[Beau Vine 53,978]

Am I the only one who thinks Liz is almost a dead ringer for Allison Brie?

Also, because I'm now thinking about Allison Brie:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Beau Vine

[ndawg 1,242]

16 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Plenty of evidence to the contrary:

Democrats Paid a Huge Price for Letting Unions Die

How Democrats Lost Union Workers (article by Chuck Jones, Former President of United Steelworkers Local 1999 (Indianapolis)

The Democrats’ Labor Pains: How can unions rebuild their alliance with a party warming to free trade?

 

The DNC, as usual, shifts blame to the GOP for the destruction of unions, but they have been extremely complicit.

The unions, both rank and file and leadership, can see this, and so they went over to Trump in droves. Of course he didn't do shit for them but he at least understood their plight and addressed them in speeches, and he dreaded running against Sanders because Sanders also understands this, or more accurately, is willing to stump about it. Trump repeatedly crowed about how he just hammered the Dems on the issue of foreign trade -- one of a few ways he actually ran to the left of the Democrats. 

Not that long ago, Galveston and Jefferson counties would go blue because of all the union jobs.  Now that relationship has been severed, that's no longer the case. Repeat that across the Rust Belt 500 times.

American manufacturing was always doomed by globalism. American companies tend to solely focus on cost reduction, and since wages are the principal expense, this leads to essentially designing as much skill out of the labor as possible. But we have a minimum wage much higher than what Chinese workers earn, so they'll always be cheaper on paper.

I'd like to see the Democrats win over more union workers, but l don't buy that the Democrats policies have actually hurt union workers. They certainly haven't helped, I'll admit, but I don't see how the government can do much to help American manufacturing. Not unless it can somehow pry shareholders away from their fixation on quarterly earnings reports long enough for companies to start realizing the benefits of upskilling their labor force -- the lynch pin to increasing compensation without inadvertently making offshoring more attractive.

[Brisketexan 104,537]

1 hour ago, ndawg said:

American manufacturing was always doomed by globalism. American companies tend to solely focus on cost reduction, and since wages are the principal expense, this leads to essentially designing as much skill out of the labor as possible. But we have a minimum wage much higher than what Chinese workers earn, so they'll always be cheaper on paper.

I'd like to see the Democrats win over more union workers, but l don't buy that the Democrats policies have actually hurt union workers. They certainly haven't helped, I'll admit, but I don't see how the government can do much to help American manufacturing. Not unless it can somehow pry shareholders away from their fixation on quarterly earnings reports long enough for companies to start realizing the benefits of upskilling their labor force -- the lynch pin to increasing compensation without inadvertently making offshoring more attractive.

What we haven't done is had any sort of plan/backstop for the inevitable pressures of globalization and automation.  We're not alone in that regard - it's a broadly western problem.

As our economy becomes one where the best path to economic security requires relatively high intelligence and education (yes, there are paths that can be done via trades and such, but as a percentage of opportunities, they are dwindling), then our economy does a poor job of accounting for what's going to happen to our less-intelligent brethren and sistren.  I say that as no insult -- literally half of Americans are necessarily of below median intelligence.

There used to be a lot of decent opportunities for them to make a good and dignified living.  The number of those opportunities are shrinking.  The party that SHOULD have been paying attention to that was asleep at the wheel, meaning that NOBODY is actually offering any solutions (the GOP offers only an outlet for grievance and blame, which appeals to angry people, so it's been a politically successful path.....even though it hasn't actually helped anyone).  The Dems very much should offer a counter-narrative to that, and man, talk about convenient -- expanding both broadband access (should be a national utility effort) and expanding access to education, including affordable higher education, is a plum right there for the picking.

[ndawg 1,242]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What we haven't done is had any sort of plan/backstop for the inevitable pressures of globalization and automation.  We're not alone in that regard - it's a broadly western problem.

As our economy becomes one where the best path to economic security requires relatively high intelligence and education (yes, there are paths that can be done via trades and such, but as a percentage of opportunities, they are dwindling), then our economy does a poor job of accounting for what's going to happen to our less-intelligent brethren and sistren.  I say that as no insult -- literally half of Americans are necessarily of below median intelligence.

There used to be a lot of decent opportunities for them to make a good and dignified living.  The number of those opportunities are shrinking.  The party that SHOULD have been paying attention to that was asleep at the wheel, meaning that NOBODY is actually offering any solutions (the GOP offers only an outlet for grievance and blame, which appeals to angry people, so it's been a politically successful path.....even though it hasn't actually helped anyone).  The Dems very much should offer a counter-narrative to that, and man, talk about convenient -- expanding both broadband access (should be a national utility effort) and expanding access to education, including affordable higher education, is a plum right there for the picking.

Agreed with all this. If I were magically appointed to be in charge of Dem policy on jobs, I'd definitely look at broadband/infrastructure. Longer term, I'd like to see government sponsor and/or subsidize capital expenditure of CNC milling and 3D printing. In the mass production age, it made sense for a factory to be single-purposed (i.e. pump out steering wheels all day). Now that the internet and computer automation have taken over consumer logistics (i.e. shopping, delivery), and we have technology that can produce whatever components the computer tells it to produce (with no changeover time), there's a real opportunity in front of us. Imagine placing an order for, say, a toaster on Amazon on Monday, a nearby plant worker printing out all the components and assembling them on Tuesday, and the toaster being delivered to the customer's hands on Wednesday.

This would be a big win for the consumer, because it would strip the inventory cost from the product's entire lifecycle and eliminate having to sometimes wait for backorders. The worker would frankly enjoy their job a lot more, because there would be a lot more variety (they get to assemble anything that customers purchase), and because they're adding more value, their compensation would rise. Good for the planet, too. Where I suppose the government could help is funding research in developing these fabrication technologies to make them cheaper and more broadly available. There's also a green play, too -- if your shit is assembled at a nearby plant from raw materials, the nearby plant becomes an attractive place to dispose of shit you don't want anymore (by turning it back in to raw materials, we conserve resources while lowering the bottom line even further).

Of course, this is just naive, pie-in-the-sky dreaming.. the batshit insane QAnon conspiracy theory will see to it we never get a break..

Edited February 4, 2021 by ndawg

[Born to Run 6,558]

Agreed with all this. If I were magically appointed to be in charge of Dem policy on jobs, I'd definitely look at broadband/infrastructure. Longer term, I'd like to see government sponsor and/or subsidize capital expenditure of CNC milling and 3D printing. In the mass production age, it made sense for a factory to be single-purposed (i.e. pump out steering wheels all day). Now that the internet and computer automation have taken over consumer logistics (i.e. shopping, delivery), and we have technology that can produce whatever components the computer tells it to produce (with no changeover time), there's a real opportunity in front of us. Imagine placing an order for, say, a toaster on Amazon on Monday, a nearby plant worker printing out all the components and assembling them on Tuesday, and the toaster being delivered to the customer's hands on Wednesday.
This would be a big win for the consumer, because it would strip the inventory cost from the product's entire lifecycle and eliminate having to sometimes wait for backorders. The worker would frankly enjoy their job a lot more, because there would be a lot more variety (they get to assemble anything that customers purchase), and because they're adding more value, their compensation would rise. Good for the planet, too. Where I suppose the government could help is funding research in developing these fabrication technologies to make them cheaper and more broadly available. There's also a green play, too -- if your shit is assembled at a nearby plant from raw materials, the nearby plant becomes an attractive place to dispose of shit you don't want anymore (by turning it back in to raw materials, we conserve resources while lowering the bottom line even further).
Of course, this is just naive, pie-in-the-sky dreaming.. the batshit insane QAnon conspiracy theory will see to it we never get a break..

I agree with this. Odd pandemic fueled shortages like bicycles and bike parts are ripe for high margins and very easy manufacturing. All sorts of niche markets...

[High Plains Drifter 10,970]

 

20 hours ago, ndawg said:

Agreed with all this. If I were magically appointed to be in charge of Dem policy on jobs, I'd definitely look at broadband/infrastructure. Longer term, I'd like to see government sponsor and/or subsidize capital expenditure of CNC milling and 3D printing. In the mass production age, it made sense for a factory to be single-purposed (i.e. pump out steering wheels all day). Now that the internet and computer automation have taken over consumer logistics (i.e. shopping, delivery), and we have technology that can produce whatever components the computer tells it to produce (with no changeover time), there's a real opportunity in front of us. Imagine placing an order for, say, a toaster on Amazon on Monday, a nearby plant worker printing out all the components and assembling them on Tuesday, and the toaster being delivered to the customer's hands on Wednesday.

This would be a big win for the consumer, because it would strip the inventory cost from the product's entire lifecycle and eliminate having to sometimes wait for backorders. The worker would frankly enjoy their job a lot more, because there would be a lot more variety (they get to assemble anything that customers purchase), and because they're adding more value, their compensation would rise. Good for the planet, too. Where I suppose the government could help is funding research in developing these fabrication technologies to make them cheaper and more broadly available. There's also a green play, too -- if your shit is assembled at a nearby plant from raw materials, the nearby plant becomes an attractive place to dispose of shit you don't want anymore (by turning it back in to raw materials, we conserve resources while lowering the bottom line even further).

Of course, this is just naive, pie-in-the-sky dreaming.. the batshit insane QAnon conspiracy theory will see to it we never get a break..

 

yeah, that way the hayseeds can get their conspiracy theories and post their memes about shooting Nancy Pelosi in the head at high speed.

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

20 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What we haven't done is had any sort of plan/backstop for the inevitable pressures of globalization and automation.  We're not alone in that regard - it's a broadly western problem.

As our economy becomes one where the best path to economic security requires relatively high intelligence and education (yes, there are paths that can be done via trades and such, but as a percentage of opportunities, they are dwindling), then our economy does a poor job of accounting for what's going to happen to our less-intelligent brethren and sistren.  I say that as no insult -- literally half of Americans are necessarily of below median intelligence.

There used to be a lot of decent opportunities for them to make a good and dignified living.  The number of those opportunities are shrinking.  The party that SHOULD have been paying attention to that was asleep at the wheel, meaning that NOBODY is actually offering any solutions (the GOP offers only an outlet for grievance and blame, which appeals to angry people, so it's been a politically successful path.....even though it hasn't actually helped anyone).  The Dems very much should offer a counter-narrative to that, and man, talk about convenient -- expanding both broadband access (should be a national utility effort) and expanding access to education, including affordable higher education, is a plum right there for the picking.

Not just that, Brisket, but the environment, national parks etc...

How hard is it to say "You want the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve .... because, for you, enough of the planet isn't polluted enough?" 

Almost everybody gets that. 

[Brisketexan 104,537]

15 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Not just that, Brisket, but the environment, national parks etc...

How hard is it to say "You want the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve .... because, for you, enough of the planet isn't polluted enough?" 

Almost everybody gets that. 

No, they don't.

Any measure for any minute sort of environmental protection is "Anti-jobs, anti-America!"  It's an easy, rote, response, and it works on a huge swath of voters.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, they don't.

Any measure for any minute sort of environmental protection is "Anti-jobs, anti-America!"  It's an easy, rote, response, and it works on a huge swath of voters.

You're wrong, Brisket.  This is a subject that I've tracked for over 20 years. 

Example: depending on the how the poll is worded, support for National Parks is always at least 75% and typically 80-90%.  This is just the most recent one I can find:

https://starexponent.com/opinion/editorial-bipartisan-support-for-national-parks/article_c417a403-5326-5f2c-8aa1-f9ba590cb5e4.html

And cleaning up the environment has shown equally strong support over the years, and is increasingly popular with young people. 

Don't conflate your misery out there on your ledge of isolation with what real people actually want. 

[Brisketexan 104,537]

3 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

You're wrong, Brisket.  This is a subject that I've tracked for over 20 years. 

Example: depending on the how the poll is worded, support for National Parks is always at least 75% and typically 80-90%.  This is just the most recent one I can find:

https://starexponent.com/opinion/editorial-bipartisan-support-for-national-parks/article_c417a403-5326-5f2c-8aa1-f9ba590cb5e4.html

And cleaning up the environment has shown equally strong support over the years, and is increasingly popular with young people. 

Don't conflate your misery out there on your ledge of isolation with what real people actually want. 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  You are talking about policy.

I'm not.  I'm talking about messaging.  And the GOP has won that messaging war, with brutal repetition.

People are for "protecting our air and water."  But the GOP gets them ginned up to oppose any tangible proposal, because "it's anti-jobs and anti-American."  The same person who answers "yes" to protecting our air and water also answers "yes" to "would you like to dissolve the job-killing EPA?"

The longer we continue to think of policy in terms of rational thought, logic, and evidence, the longer our losing streak will continue.  We live in a full-on propaganda state now.  Propaganda is all that matters.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  You are talking about policy.

I'm not.  I'm talking about messaging.  And the GOP has won that messaging war, with brutal repetition.

People are for "protecting our air and water."  But the GOP gets them ginned up to oppose any tangible proposal, because "it's anti-jobs and anti-American."  The same person who answers "yes" to protecting our air and water also answers "yes" to "would you like to dissolve the job-killing EPA?"

The longer we continue to think of policy in terms of rational thought, logic, and evidence, the longer our losing streak will continue.  We live in a full-on propaganda state now.  Propaganda is all that matters.

 

I'm saying the Democrats can quite easily take back that messaging because the wellspring of support is massive.  

"Under the Trump administration, the Republicans opened up 187 million acres of your land --- land that you own ---- to oil and gas development. They did this to appease the oil companies who contribute to their campaigns. We think that's wrong. We believe in clean air and clean water."

It won't play well in parts of Texas, but them's the breaks.

I see carpetbagger Chip Roy is all over the Biden administration this morning with "Come and Take It"  rhetoric re: oil and gas regulation. 

[Bookman 4,610]

The same Chip Roy that was so against oil and gas pipelines through his constituent's property?

[atomheartbevo 89,396]

11 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

yeah, that way the hayseeds can get their conspiracy theories and post their memes about shooting Nancy Pelosi in the head at high speed.

Give them better streaming capabilities so hopefully they waste their time on Netflix or whatever.

Oh wait, they'll get sucked down a YouTube rabbit hole

[Bullneck 18,983]

On 2/3/2021 at 11:06 AM, cactusflinthead said:

Vic is pissed off. He kinda stays pissed off.

He's got a Youtube channel. 

Vic seems like he might be from New Jersey.

On 2/3/2021 at 2:31 PM, wildcat09 said:

 

This is not fucking helpful you morons.

Seems like a good strategy to me.  Why don't you think so?

Edited February 6, 2021 by Bullneck

[aggie08 21,414]

33 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Seems like a good strategy to me.  Why don't you think so?

Because they largely already have the "college-educated voters'" support, and emphasizing the education divide between the GOP and Democrats only plays into the elitist narrative. Why immediately alienate millions of people who didn't go to college? Saying "you can do or Q, or you can do sanity and reality" would be a lot more useful.

Edited February 6, 2021 by aggie08

[UpperWestside 6,126]

2 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Vic seems like he might be from New Jersey.

He’s pretty funny. I missed a chance to see him in Yonkers three years or so ago. His videos he did during the bomb cyclone were pretty humorous. He is in the Lewis Black vein of comedy. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

He looks exactly like splitting 50-50 DNA of Jon Stewart and Dice Clay

[Ted Lange 16,040]

GOP incumbents in competitive districts...

Q ?  Someone say Q?
 

[UpperWestside 6,126]

This is the full Q rant of five minutes. He nails a lot of really good points home in this one. He should be posting here.

[washparkhorn 9,934]

29 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

This is the full Q rant of five minutes. He nails a lot of really good points home in this one. He should be posting here.

Excellent. 

He needs to be a character in the Ozark universe.

[Ted Lange 16,040]

Needs to be a speaker at CPAC 

[washparkhorn 9,934]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Because they largely already have the "college-educated voters'" support, and emphasizing the education divide between the GOP and Democrats only plays into the elitist narrative. Why immediately alienate millions of people who didn't go to college? Saying "you can do or Q, or you can do sanity and reality" would be a lot more useful.

Assimilation culturally and socially will be awkward at first. Especially for loved ones. But as we open up, with the awkwardness will spread post-covid. 

Trump shrines are disappearing in many areas. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by washparkhorn

[washparkhorn 9,934]

4 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Needs to be a speaker at CPAC 

Should nihilistic CPAC exist in a representative democracy? Do we want nihilists with no long plans to maintain the nation selling government access? 

Edited February 6, 2021 by washparkhorn

[Ted Lange 16,040]

[Bullneck 18,983]

8 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Because they largely already have the "college-educated voters'" support, and emphasizing the education divide between the GOP and Democrats only plays into the elitist narrative. Why immediately alienate millions of people who didn't go to college? Saying "you can do or Q, or you can do sanity and reality" would be a lot more useful.

"They can do QAnon, or they can do college-educated voters. They cannot do both."

Maloney is referring to the Republicans and how their party is not a majority and that it needs a consistent, reasonably sane message that appeals to all Republicans to survive.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

14 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

"They can do QAnon, or they can do college-educated voters. They cannot do both."

Maloney is referring to the Republicans and how their party is not a majority and that it needs a consistent, reasonably sane message that appeals to all Republicans to survive.

That was my take--that unless one has fallen prey to the delusion (see ag) and the big lie (see ag) the outflow is greater than the inflow. To wit: a former Trumpy friend who turned on Trump due to COVID response is now among that group and is now on the outs with family who remained behind with Trump, including family member who went Qwazy and is convinced Biden Bible Takers are a thing. Once outside the group and looking back, she has clarity to how destructive it all is.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]