The Surly Road Cycling Thread

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I love them, their modulation is so superior to rim brakes it isn't funny. That said, I don't think it's worth someone running out and getting another bike just for discs unless they are planning on bombing mountain passes in inclement weather. Generally, if you are looking for a bike, I'd get discs.
 
A lot of the reasons roadies give to downplay them are bullshit really, I've raced mtb and motocross for decades, and discs are juat part of the deal and they perform like no other brake can.

Thanks man. I’m taking a hard look at the road machine. My LBS only carries the lowest models, so I am riding that next weekend to test the geometry, but would have to special order after that which is a beating. I’m not crazy about buying online because I want a local shop to be on the hook for fully dialing in the fit, early maintenance tweaks, etc. What was your experience?

[G650 14229]

3 hours ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Thanks man. I’m taking a hard look at the road machine. My LBS only carries the lowest models, so I am riding that next weekend to test the geometry, but would have to special order after that which is a beating. I’m not crazy about buying online because I want a local shop to be on the hook for fully dialing in the fit, early maintenance tweaks, etc. What was your experience?

 

My local has a varied range, but I had to order mine. Ordered on Tues, bike was in that Thursday night.  So it was pretty painless.

 

I used to do online, as no one carried Ridley back then, but with this expensive of a bike, and one with so much proprietary shit on it, the LBS is the way to go. I've been building my own bike for decades, but I was more than happy to have the LBS do this one.

[G650 14229]

Hell of a mist this morning. Fucking dripping ass wet when I got home.

[Lou 264]

4 hours ago, G650 said:

Hell of a mist this morning. Fucking dripping ass wet when I got home.

What time do you ride?  Where do you ride?

[G650 14229]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

What time do you ride?  Where do you ride?

 

I usually do my Z2 rides outside about 430 in the morning.

I'm up in Virginia Beach, so pretty far away from the majority of our fellow posters here.

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

Can you guys school me on trainers?  I have an entry level Felt road bike, and I would love to log more hours.  Not that trainer miles are the same, but I only have time for quality longer rides on the weekends.  With young kids and stuff going on it's not always a given that i'll have time on the weekends.  Definitely not getting up at 4:30am, and as novice I would be kind of skittish riding in the dark anyways.  Would like to have a setup to stay fit so that when I do have time I can put up more miles.

Are cheap trainers just absolute junk?

Edited April 25, 2018 by Gene Parmesan

[G650 14229]

20 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Can you guys school me on trainers?  I have an entry level Felt road bike, and I would love to log more hours.  Not that trainer miles are the same, but I only have time for quality longer rides on the weekends.  With young kids and stuff going on it's not always a given that i'll have time on the weekends.  Definitely not getting up at 4:30am, and as novice I would be kind of skittish riding in the dark anyways.  Would like to have a setup to stay fit so that when I do have time I can put up more miles.

Are cheap trainers just absolute junk?

 

I actually so the majority of my riding on a trainer.

What kind of budget are you thinking? The short answer is yes, cheap trainers suck, but there's a pretty big range. You can go wild with smart retainers and such, or more modest. I run a Kurt Kinetic, which is the absolute gold standard in dumb trainers, and can be had for a shade over 300 bucks.

 

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

I'd like to keep it around $200.  Definitely looking at dumb trainers.  What about rollers do you have any experience with them?  I like the idea of the roller, but with no resistance afraid it's hard to get a workout on.

[52-80 19139]

Rollers are probably quieter too, so keep that in mind

 

At $200 look used.  Tons of folks (like me) buy trainers and then abandon them because it's a love it or hate it thing.

 

I'd do anything intermediate priced.  Either buy a cheapo roller or manual turbo, if you just want to clock up some miles.  Or go for a direct drive smart trainer, if you are into hardcore gekkery, because they are well priced now.

[G650 14229]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I'd like to keep it around $200.  Definitely looking at dumb trainers.  What about rollers do you have any experience with them?  I like the idea of the roller, but with no resistance afraid it's hard to get a workout on.

I personally am not a huge fan of rollers, because I'm mostly doing heavy intervals, which can be sketchy on rollers, or I'm doing very long Z2 rides, in which I just want to zone out and spin while watching tv. Some people love rollers though, so it's kinda an individual thing.

 

There are a couple newer products that are somewhat in the middle, the Blackburn Raceday, and the Omnium. Basically they pin your fork, and the back wheel is on mini rollers. The only thing is they can't take super high wattage.

 

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

 

At $200 look used.  

 

This is very good advice too.

[wild_turkey 3159]

I'm gonna move over to this thread. Thanks for those of you who gave guidance in my bike purchasing endeavors on the other subforum.

For casual daily riding, what's the advantage of a cycling jersey compared to a Nike/UA/Lulu shirt? I'm 6'2" and fairly trim. I bought a Castelli jersey size XL and it feels tiny on me and will probably show my midriff because it's shorter in front. I tried on a few other brands with similar results. Other than the cycling jersey having pockets, what other reason should I have for using that on a regular basis? I have a ton of workout shirts that seem like they would be just fine.

[52-80 19139]

If compared to other technical garments that has UV blocking and are  breathable....80% of it is just looking the part.  20% is go fast if you indeed go very fast.

 

Midriff shouldn't be a problem if you wear bibs.  Don't have a waistline like regular shorts do.  That said, sizing across brands and cuts are variable, and even within a single line, cycling QC is shit and you'll find variance even with Castelli and Rapha goods.

 

That said, I like Castelli stuff.  Also Santini and Sportful, and wiggle in-house DHB branded gear

[G650 14229]

You can't  really tell how it fits until you are on the bike. The front is supposed to  be a lot shorter because of how you are positioned. 

[idigTexas 2284]

13 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

I'm gonna move over to this thread. Thanks for those of you who gave guidance in my bike purchasing endeavors on the other subforum.

For casual daily riding, what's the advantage of a cycling jersey compared to a Nike/UA/Lulu shirt? I'm 6'2" and fairly trim. I bought a Castelli jersey size XL and it feels tiny on me and will probably show my midriff because it's shorter in front. I tried on a few other brands with similar results. Other than the cycling jersey having pockets, what other reason should I have for using that on a regular basis? I have a ton of workout shirts that seem like they would be just fine.

Cycling jerseys are designed to be functional.  They should fit somewhat snugly to reduce wind drag and evaporate sweat.  Pockets can hold whatever is essential for you to carry.  For casual riding, and if you don't need the pockets, then stick with whatever is comfortable. 

If you catch the bug and decide that you want to start taking cycling a little more seriously, you can shop jerseys then.  When that happens, you'll find that jersey fit will vary greatly from one brand to another.  One XL (or even XXL) will squeeze the ever loving life out of you, while another will feel baggy and inefficient.  Some jersey materials keep you cool and comfy, while others will feel itchy and irritating.  It's a lot like saddles and shorts.  You just have to try some until you find what works for you.  Don't be the guy who buys a full Italian racing kit after two weeks of riding the starter bike on the MUP...unless it will get you laid.

Also, if you start riding with a group, you will likely encounter multiple people who have several jerseys (and other gear) that they are willing to give away because they don't get used.  I regularly hand down my stuff to anyone who will make use of it.

 

[idigTexas 2284]

16 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Can you guys school me on trainers?  I have an entry level Felt road bike, and I would love to log more hours.  Not that trainer miles are the same, but I only have time for quality longer rides on the weekends.  With young kids and stuff going on it's not always a given that i'll have time on the weekends.  Definitely not getting up at 4:30am, and as novice I would be kind of skittish riding in the dark anyways.  Would like to have a setup to stay fit so that when I do have time I can put up more miles.

Are cheap trainers just absolute junk?

A lot of good advice has been given.  Logging training time will absolutely make you a better rider, and you will be surprised by how even minimal sessions can prevent significant loss of fitness.  If you are just getting started, I would not even consider rollers.  A basic magnetic or fluid trainer from Kinetic or Cyclops should fit the bill.  Looking for a gently used one is a great suggestion.   

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

Yeah did some digging last night based on the advice given, and I figured I probably need to up my budget.  I just figured cheap $100 trainers are probably junk so I doubled it thinking I could get something decent.  I really had no idea how expensive they can get.  Probably looking at the Kinetic Road Machine as it seems to be the go to for what it is.  Doesn't look like there is much difference price wise between the "dumb" and "smart" version, so I will probably opt for the smart, but I am not really sure the difference.  Does the smart have built in power meters and speed sensors that relay to an app, or is that stuff I would have to buy extra?  Also is a trainer tire a requirement, or more of a suggestion for those that roll on expensive tires?

[Lazarus Bocanegra 304]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:38 AM, idigTexas said:

Anyone have experience, good or bad, with any cycling touring companies?  I'm considering a trip, but haven't yet decided on the destination.  I've been reading a lot of online reviews, but it's nice to have first hand info.

I did a ride along with Pursuit from Madison - Chicago in the summer of 2016 that was organized by Trek Travel.  It was absolutely top-notch.  Food, staff, equipment, and accommodations were all outstanding.  10/10 would ride again.  

[G650 14229]

15 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah did some digging last night based on the advice given, and I figured I probably need to up my budget.  I just figured cheap $100 trainers are probably junk so I doubled it thinking I could get something decent.  I really had no idea how expensive they can get.  Probably looking at the Kinetic Road Machine as it seems to be the go to for what it is.  Doesn't look like there is much difference price wise between the "dumb" and "smart" version, so I will probably opt for the smart, but I am not really sure the difference.  Does the smart have built in power meters and speed sensors that relay to an app, or is that stuff I would have to buy extra?  Also is a trainer tire a requirement, or more of a suggestion for those that roll on expensive tires?

Personally, I don't think there is any value in the smart Kinetic, it's just another power estimate really. You can use Trainerroad or software of choice to do the same thing. It uses speed and known resistance to estimate power.

As far as trainer tires, I had one for a while, and eventually, I couldn't be bothered with it anymore. I run Conti GP 4Ks, and just figured the mileage is the mileage (honestly trainer miles are a little easier on them a there is no road debris). If you had some badass tubulars or something I would probably get another wheels, but not for just your usual good clincher. I have a dedicated trainer bike these days, so it's somewhat moot for me.

[52-80 19139]

15 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah did some digging last night based on the advice given, and I figured I probably need to up my budget.  I just figured cheap $100 trainers are probably junk so I doubled it thinking I could get something decent.  I really had no idea how expensive they can get.  Probably looking at the Kinetic Road Machine as it seems to be the go to for what it is.  Doesn't look like there is much difference price wise between the "dumb" and "smart" version, so I will probably opt for the smart, but I am not really sure the difference.  Does the smart have built in power meters and speed sensors that relay to an app, or is that stuff I would have to buy extra?  Also is a trainer tire a requirement, or more of a suggestion for those that roll on expensive tires?

If you want a trainer just to put in the riding time, all you're looking is for something to be stable (wide base, heavy, etc), and quiet enough for your environment.  Manual resistance is fine.

Smart trainers communicate with your phones and computers, it allows these remote devices to set resistance such as when replicating a virtual riding environment or virtual slopes.  It's extremely useful when you have a specific training plan, e.g. riding to power.

If you're going this route, I suggest going all the way to a direct drive trainer.  Their power measurements are more accurate; there is no tire slip; it is generally quieter; provides more realistic feel.

If not, if you just want to log time, just go with a basic turbo.

***

Trainer tires aren't really a requirement unless you run into issues of slip, or accelerated tire wear.  For me, actually running training tire (same brand as trainer) results in it depositing a gunk on the rollerwheel, whereas normal road tires kept it clean.  So it was a waste.  Most people just use a beat up tire and/or wheel for training duties.

 

 

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

41 minutes ago, G650 said:

Personally, I don't think there is any value in the smart Kinetic, it's just another power estimate really. You can use Trainerroad or software of choice to do the same thing. It uses speed and known resistance to estimate power.

As far as trainer tires, I had one for a while, and eventually, I couldn't be bothered with it anymore. I run Conti GP 4Ks, and just figured the mileage is the mileage (honestly trainer miles are a little easier on them a there is no road debris). If you had some badass tubulars or something I would probably get another wheels, but not for just your usual good clincher. I have a dedicated trainer bike these days, so it's somewhat moot for me.

The price difference is only $30 from what I can tell but I am not really sure what the difference is?  I know their top of the line smart control automatically adjusts resistance based on your training program of choice, but it's $500+ though, and I don't see any value for what I want to do.   At 369 they have a smart road machine and at 339 they have a road machine.  Not sure the difference other than the smart says compatible with apps.  I assume it has some built in sensors?  I only have a speed sensor on my front wheel so if it has some basic stuff i'll pay an additional 30 bucks, but if it just has Bluetooth capability and I would still need to purchase additional cadence/speed/power sensors then I'll go with the "dumb" version.

[G650 14229]

16 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

The price difference is only $30 from what I can tell but I am not really sure what the difference is?  I know their top of the line smart control automatically adjusts resistance based on your training program of choice, but it's $500+ though, and I don't see any value for what I want to do.   At 369 they have a smart road machine and at 339 they have a road machine.  Not sure the difference other than the smart says compatible with apps.  I assume it has some built in sensors?  I only have a speed sensor on my front wheel so if it has some basic stuff i'll pay an additional 30 bucks, but if it just has Bluetooth capability and I would still need to purchase additional cadence/speed/power sensors then I'll go with the "dumb" version.

Yeah, it just adds the smart sensor they make which used to be purchased separately. The trainer is the same. If you don't have a speedo on your bike then it would be worth it I guess.

[idigTexas 2284]

Not sure where you are looking, but the Kinetic Road Machine is only $270 on Amazon, and that's the Prime price, which tends to be a little inflated.

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

The prices are from the Kurt website which I suppose is just the MSRP. 

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

First ride on the road bike tonight.  Every Thursday, there's a group that meets up at the bike shop in my town and rides down the paved trail to the next town to the east.  You hit the bars there for a couple rounds, ride back to town, and have a few more.  Always a good time.

[52-80 19139]

preppin the girl for her first ride of the season 

 

o fuck this 

 

https://i.imgur.com/n6J6uLa.jpg

Edited April 26, 2018 by 52-80

[G650 14229]

46 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

preppin the girl for her first ride of the season 

 

o fuck this 

 

https://i.imgur.com/n6J6uLa.jpg

Just getting an error

[G650 14229]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

First ride on the road bike tonight.  Every Thursday, there's a group that meets up at the bike shop in my town and rides down the paved trail to the next town to the east.  You hit the bars there for a couple rounds, ride back to town, and have a few more.  Always a good time.

That actually sounds great.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

23 minutes ago, G650 said:

That actually sounds great.

It's pretty awesome.  We're really blessed with over 100 miles of paved trails accessible within 20 miles of my door step.  There's a bike shop in the town I live in (Cresco; population of about 4,000) and I'm pretty good friends with the owners.  They lead up this whole thing, and have built a solid community of folks who like to ride bike and party.  In the fall they host the Ride to Cure Chlamydia, and in the summer we always do a weenie roast ride, where someone drags a grill behind their bike, and someone else drags a cooler full of cheap hot dogs and Hamm's.  The town at the end of our trail (Calmar), and a neighboring town to the east (Decorah - home of Toppling Goliath beer) have big biking communities as well.  There's a new brewery in Calmar that's making really solid beer, so I'm looking forward to riding to the brewery (21 miles) and riding home buzzed on a traffic free trail.

My little corner of the world is seriously underrated for outdoor recreation, and I hope it stays that way.  

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Al_4_ISU

[idigTexas 2284]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

preppin the girl for her first ride of the season 

 

o fuck this 

 

https://i.imgur.com/n6J6uLa.jpg

Moose out front should have told you.  Surly no likely imgur. 

 

Love living where cycling season is all year long.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I'm in over my head on this one, but if the frame is not compromised, you wouldn't believe the price I paid used. It also had about $100+ worth of gadgets on it.

 

 

 

https://www.bikesourceonline.com/product/specialized-roubaix-expert-276800-1.htm

[52-80 19139]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:20 PM, G650 said:

Just getting an error

nag dabbit.

 

[G650 14229]

58 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

I'm in over my head on this one, but if the frame is not compromised, you wouldn't believe the price I paid used. It also had about $100+ worth of gadgets on it.

 

 

 

https://www.bikesourceonline.com/product/specialized-roubaix-expert-276800-1.htm

 

Dude, nice score!

 

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

nag dabbit.

 

 

Much mo bettah.

 

I love a De Rosa too.

[NBMisha 224]

Nice Roubaix, its not over your head.  My first serious bike was a Roubaix, in October 2011.  They say to get a bike that makes you want to ride, and that surely did it.  I still have that as my bike for hills, thought just about everything on it - wheels, drive train, etc have been switched out.  

For the flats I have a Venge.  I see Specialized just put out their S-Works Tarmac redesigned for disc brakes.  Bike Mag says that now is the best racing bike made.   For 11K it can be yours.

[G650 14229]

Sounds like a bargain. 

[52-80 19139]

100k pedal through the countryside today.

need to start adding base and doing structured workouts again

[G650 14229]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

100k pedal through the countryside today.

need to start adding base and doing structured workouts again

Beauty. Getting ready for a rain ride here

[G650 14229]

So 65 degrees and a light mist made for a pretty comfortable ride. At least until a head wind whipped up out of nowhere on the leg home.

 

 

[52-80 19139]

grey is best grey.  i did the ratchet upgrade on the dt240s hubs ... runs so choice 

 

[G650 14229]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

grey is best grey.  i did the ratchet upgrade on the dt240s hubs ... runs so choice 

 

 

Jawohl.

[G650 14229]

Sunrise over King Neptune and Ye Olde Atlantic Ocean.

 

 

[Jerry Callo 8694]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:50 AM, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah did some digging last night based on the advice given, and I figured I probably need to up my budget.  I just figured cheap $100 trainers are probably junk so I doubled it thinking I could get something decent.  I really had no idea how expensive they can get.  Probably looking at the Kinetic Road Machine as it seems to be the go to for what it is.  Doesn't look like there is much difference price wise between the "dumb" and "smart" version, so I will probably opt for the smart, but I am not really sure the difference.  Does the smart have built in power meters and speed sensors that relay to an app, or is that stuff I would have to buy extra?  Also is a trainer tire a requirement, or more of a suggestion for those that roll on expensive tires?

Not sure if you are still looking at trainers, but here is my advice.  Look for a good, used fluid trainer.  I have purchased to Cyclops Fluid 2 trainers on craigslist for $150 or cheaper.  Cyclops has great warranties and will replace parts relatively cheap even if you purchased used.

As for trainer tires.  I suggest using an old tire or dedicated trainer tire for the trainer.  The trainer will wear on the tire.  One side benefit of changing out tires for the trainer is the experience changing tires.  I got to where I could change a tire in 2-3 minutes - which is nice when you get a flat on the road or in a race.  Eventually, I got a second wheel that holds my training tire, so I just swap the wheels.

[G650 14229]

I totally got a flat Sunday morning. First-time in like 5 years.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Did 50 miles on Saturday.  We had got rained of the field the day before, so I was able to attend the first annual Tri-County Bike and Brew.  A concrete trail had recently been completed in my area that created a 20 mile long trail that mostly follows old rail lines, and actually goes past a few of our farms.

The ride started in a little town 4 miles from the south end of the trailhead at the bar.  We stopped in the 2 small towns along the trail, and about halfway through the ride, it passes and old ghost town that has nothing but a deer hunting cabin remaining.  They had a bunch of beer out there, and a bike toss competition, which was a hoot.

We drank a lot of beer, and my father in law crashed into a small pole at a road intersection that's meant to keep motorized vehicles off the trail.  He was a little cut up, but overall it was a fun day, despite being unseasonably cold (highs in the 50's, usually in the high 70's or low 80's in May).

[G650 14229]

8/10 for the bike toss.

[Atxracer 797]

So, I'm not a bicycler.  But, with an open mind, I really would like to hear from those that are the rationale why it's ok to ride a bike on a busy 2 lane road without a shoulder...especially during traffic time.  Or, is that frowned upon in the community too and these are rogue people?

[52-80 19139]

6 minutes ago, Atxracer said:

So, I'm not a bicycler.  But, with an open mind, I really would like to hear from those that are the rationale why it's ok to ride a bike on a busy 2 lane road without a shoulder...especially during traffic time.  Or, is that frowned upon in the community too and these are rogue people?

depends on the road - length, traffic density, nominal speed, location context (e.g. is it the only connection to a low-traffic winding rural road?).  

 

its a give and take.  riders have a right to the road.  that said, if someone rides in route where they are often in conflict with vehicular traffic... then they have chosen very poorly.

[Txzen 498]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:47 AM, G650 said:

Yeah, for sure.

I've not done it, certainly looks cool though. Currently I'm planning a Euro trip next year to ride either some of the Pyrenees or the Dolomites, so that's basically all the time I can spare.

I'm happy to say I've done three France trips. One was the Alps/Provence (Alpe d'Huez, Telegraph/Galibier, and Ventoux) and two trips to the Pyrenees (Hautacam, Tourmalet, Luz Ardiden, Soulor/Aubisque, Col Spandelles, Pla d'Adet, Plateu de Beille, La Hourquette d'Ancizan/Aspin). Let me know if you want any advice!

[G650 14229]

5 minutes ago, Txzen said:

I'm happy to say I've done three France trips. One was the Alps/Provence (Alpe d'Huez, Telegraph/Galibier, and Ventoux) and two trips to the Pyrenees (Hautacam, Tourmalet, Luz Ardiden, Soulor/Aubisque, Col Spandelles, Pla d'Adet, Plateu de Beille, La Hourquette d'Ancizan/Aspin). Let me know if you want any advice!

For sure. Where do I get enough EPO to do the Pyrenees Circle of Death in under 7 hours? Going the easy direction from Bagneres Luchon to Pau of course, wouldn t want to get crazy...

[Txzen 498]

It's France. Probably can get it at any roadside pharmacy. 

Can't help you with the Circle of Death. My schedule was usually: rise, croissant, 1 -2 climbs, lunch (with wine), back to B&B, cocktail hour, dinner, bed. Rinse, lather, repeat. Did not inlcude any garbage miles between climbs, instead preferring afternoons off for Negroni taste-tests.  

[G650 14229]

11 minutes ago, Txzen said:

It's France. Probably can get it at any roadside pharmacy. 

Can't help you with the Circle of Death. My schedule was usually: rise, croissant, 1 -2 climbs, lunch (with wine), back to B&B, cocktail hour, dinner, bed. Rinse, lather, repeat. Did not inlcude any garbage miles between climbs, instead preferring afternoons off for Negroni taste-tests.  

Yeah, you are much more intelligent than I.

 

I actually was sipping a Negroni yesterday dreaming of the Italian Alps. Need to get back there soon, been too long.