Black Widow

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

I thought it was just allright.  Not great not terribad.  I did really enjoy the movement in the first 30 minutes or so from idyllic playground to dinner to oh no here we go.  Felt that was well done.

The actress all of ya'll are praising--I thought her accent was pretty bad but maybe I'm the off one here?  If so, I'll take that.   Biased towards always liking the Stranger Things's sheriff, so I'm glad he was in it.  It didn't have time travel in it, so that was also good.   

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Scar Jo is suing Disney because of the hybrid release.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Scar Jo is suing Disney because of the hybrid release.

Yep.  Apparently her contract stipulated theatrical release only, and a big part of her comp was tied to performance at the theater.  Disney's gonna have to pay out on this one.

[ChickenSandwich 9,844]

Guessing written before Covid. Wonder what “acts of god” clauses her contract contains. 

[naija 2,869]

Might as well make as much now. The big ticket items are going to take a hit for an unknown number of years. If it isn’t a superhero movie or a sci-fi or fantasy series, who is paying at the same scale these days.

[Aqua Buddha 14,599]

Dick move by Disney.  They're going to have to pay out.  

Maybe the money they're not paying her is going to buy OU and Texas out of the Big 12.

[atomheartbevo 89,766]

3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  Apparently her contract stipulated theatrical release only, and a big part of her comp was tied to performance at the theater.  Disney's gonna have to pay out on this one.

3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Guessing written before Covid. Wonder what “acts of god” clauses her contract contains. 

Well, given that Disney is selling Disney+ access to it for $30 an account over the normal Disney+ price, I'm guessing she's (rightfully) going after a share of that $30.

 

 

[Bookman 4,639]

How is she going to prove how many would have seen it in the theater?

[ChickenSandwich 9,844]

She should have asked for a Disney +’show instead. 

[atomheartbevo 89,766]

18 minutes ago, Bookman said:

How is she going to prove how many would have seen it in the theater?

"See Black Widow before it's available to all Disney+ subscribers on October 6. Watch as many times as you like with Premier Access for $29.99 and your Disney+ subscription."  

If a million people paid the $30 extra to watch it on Disney+, she has a pretty good case.  That premier access is structured such that Disney knows exactly how many ponied up and watched BW while it's still in the theaters.

[atomheartbevo 89,766]

The tougher problem for her is that because of covid, a lot of people are simply not going back to the theaters (that and cheap big-ass TVs), and Marvel is about to rapidly cycle through a half-dozen movies or so over the next 9 months(?) or so, which means BW would not last long in the theaters, no matter how good it is.

[TwiceHorn 31,515]

4 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Guessing written before Covid. Wonder what “acts of god” clauses her contract contains. 

Generally speaking, force majeure voids the contract and lets both parties out of performance.

It's not much help for anyone in a situation like this, where her performance is complete.

[ChickenSandwich 9,844]

53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Generally speaking, force majeure voids the contract and lets both parties out of performance.

It's not much help for anyone in a situation like this, where her performance is complete.

Translation ?

[Bookman 4,639]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

"See Black Widow before it's available to all Disney+ subscribers on October 6. Watch as many times as you like with Premier Access for $29.99 and your Disney+ subscription."  

If a million people paid the $30 extra to watch it on Disney+, she has a pretty good case.  That premier access is structured such that Disney knows exactly how many ponied up and watched BW while it's still in the theaters.

And, I assume, she would have to prove how many of those people who streamed it would otherwise have gone to the theaters.

[TwiceHorn 31,515]

27 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Translation ?

Force majeure/Act of God= walk away from the contract before either side has completed their obligations.

It's not going to apply here.

[ChickenSandwich 9,844]

Understood. Her case a slam dunk?

[TwiceHorn 31,515]

16 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Understood. Her case a slam dunk?

No idea.  Highly dependent on the contract language.  I think it's fairly standard for stars to get a higher percentage of "box office" receipts and a lower percentage off cable, streaming, and dvd "sales."

If it's a fairly standard contract like that, I think she's going to have to show some kind of bad faith or intentional shifting from "box office" to streaming platforms to avoid their contractual obligations on the box office.  Otherwise, I think she just has to absorb the risk.

[AUS-97HORN 11,812]

I know of 3 families that had 4+ members who spent the $30.    2 of those families also had 1-2 friends over to watch it at the same time. 

so Disney pocketed $90 streaming dollars off those sales. and very good chance 14-16 of those folks would have watched it in a theater.   

Even if it was just 12 the average ticket is $10+ so the min they would have spent would have been $120  but more like 140.    She gets almost nothing from the $90 paid to stream, while she would have gotten a specific percentage of the real theater sales. 

multiply that same scenario by a million households and those numbers add up real quick.   Hell, even if its a single person who bought the $30 ticket that almost all went to disney

[TKthunder2 4,996]

3 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I know of 3 families that had 4+ members who spent the $30.    2 of those families also had 1-2 friends over to watch it at the same time. 

so Disney pocketed $90 streaming dollars off those sales. and very good chance 14-16 of those folks would have watched it in a theater.   

Even if it was just 12 the average ticket is $10+ so the min they would have spent would have been $120  but more like 140.    She gets almost nothing from the $90 paid to stream, while she would have gotten a specific percentage of the real theater sales. 

multiply that same scenario by a million households and those numbers add up real quick.   Hell, even if its a single person who bought the $30 ticket that almost all went to disney

How much would ScarJo get from that $10 ticket?  Not a ton after the theater, distributor, and Disney take their cut.

Plus, Disney postponed and tried to wait out COVID longer than most others for this film, but since they couldn’t wait any longer.  It’s going to be really hard for her to win if it’s all based on claiming Disney acted in bad faith.

[Gatorubet 30,275]

Generally speaking, force majeure voids the contract and lets both parties out of performance.
It's not much help for anyone in a situation like this, where her performance is complete.

Well, the release of the film was not made impossible, in a real sense. They could have released it later. It’s not like a refrigerator car full of Bluebell had an ac failure ‘cause a tornado hurled a tree at its now melting cargo.

So I’d love to know if the movie’s release timing is at Disney’s sole discretion - at least when box office release is contractually a measure of compensation.

[AUS-97HORN 11,812]

1 minute ago, TKthunder2 said:

How much would ScarJo get from that $10 ticket?  Not a ton after the theater, distributor, and Disney take their cut.

Plus, Disney postponed and tried to wait out COVID longer than most others for this film, but since they couldn’t wait any longer.  It’s going to be really hard for her to win if it’s all based on claiming Disney acted in bad faith.

assuming its like most movie deals for the star, its literally a % of ticket sales.   1% of gross, 1.5%  etc.   no one knows what her contract said, but since it was her Marvel swan song and she HAD to be the actress to do it, she might have gotten 5-8% maybe more of gross. 

 yeah that means on a $10 ticket shes only getting 50 cents.     But again,  if   10-15 million people would have paid for their ticket at the theater, but went streaming service instead,  she could literally be out $7-15M

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,913]

It will all depend on how many aggy on on the jury

[elfenix 34,331]

I heard it did 60 million dollars on streaming.

[AUS-97HORN 11,812]

another thing I just thought of.   SoJo was an ensemble actress in the series since IM2.  yes she got paid, but all the stars werent getting $30M each. 

Just a point, Chris Pratt got paid $12M to do Passengers.  No way in fucking hell he got that for GOTG1 &2 & endgame 1&2.   i would guess almost all of them got $2-3M per movie.

There is a damn good chance this movie was presented as her " thanks for 11 years being in the MCU, lets catch you up on making money" movie.    

[atomheartbevo 89,766]

2 hours ago, Bookman said:

And, I assume, she would have to prove how many of those people who streamed it would otherwise have gone to the theaters.

If you are paying $30 to stream it at home, chances are fairly decent you would have paid $10 for a ticket.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

If you are paying $30 to stream it at home, chances are fairly decent you would have paid $10 for a ticket.

Nah, we would have went to the $5 matinee @ showbiz cinemas.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,134]

$10 movie tickets? More like $20. And I think she has a strong case.

[Bookman 4,639]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If you are paying $30 to stream it at home, chances are fairly decent you would have paid $10 for a ticket.

The $30 allowed everyone in the household to see it, as many times as he or she wanted to.

[Scary Stranger 1,715]

I took my kids to see it in the theater. I expect a handwritten thank you.

[TXSooner518 2,438]

3 hours ago, Scary Stranger said:

I took my kids to see it in the theater. I expect a handwritten thank you.

Same, but I would prefer ScarJo offer me an alternate thank you.

[atomheartbevo 89,766]

7 hours ago, Scary Stranger said:

I took my kids to see it in the theater. I expect a handwritten thank you.

Did you tell the kids that the sticky floor was not from spilled Coke or popcorn butter?

[Js1 85,454]

Finally saw it (in theaters). Enjoyed it. Thought it would be more origin in story than actually what Nat was doing after Civil War. 

Florence Pugh was so awesome and can’t wait to see her in Hawkeye. Hoping for more Red Guardian too. 

[TKthunder2 4,996]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:11 PM, atomheartbevo said:

If you are paying $30 to stream it at home, chances are fairly decent you would have paid $10 for a ticket.

We would not have gone to the theater.  We paid $30 and I know multiple other families with unvaccinated kids that did the same.  I’m sure it cut down on how many people went to see it in person but I think a large chuck of that are people that simply would have waited until it was on VOD.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

This movie was awesome in my opinion. Between this and Cruella, very awesome movies with female leads this summer. 

[Js1 85,454]

Apparently ScarJo got a $40m settlement of the $125m from the D+ streaming premier. Good for her 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

On 9/30/2021 at 3:28 PM, babysdaddy said:

BT sure has been silent on the bills and mod vs progressive battle raging in DC.

 

Debt and deficit spending are interesting discussions.  Debasement of the US Dollar is clearly a goal of the government because debt is static and 'paying it back' (won't ever happen) is just adjusting the ratio of debt/gdp.  As long gdp grows in nominal terms then our debt ratio becomes smaller or grows less fast.  Over the past decade, debt and deficit spending have not impacted interest rates. If they don't matter, then Washpark is right in that the $3.5T number really doesn't cost that much to finance.  That also brings in another thought in that if debt and deficit spending do not matter, then why levy income taxes at all? 

 

On 8/8/2021 at 8:03 PM, TKthunder2 said:

We would not have gone to the theater.  We paid $30 and I know multiple other families with unvaccinated kids that did the same.  I’m sure it cut down on how many people went to see it in person but I think a large chuck of that are people that simply would have waited until it was on VOD.

This was us. We weren’t going to see this in theatres. Shang Chi is the first movie I’ve seen in theatres since Endgame (ironic), but I went by myself on a Thursday night when there were 6 other people on the theatre.  

10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Apparently ScarJo got a $40m settlement of the $125m from the D+ streaming premier. Good for her 

My understanding is the box office is split between theatres and movie studio. So they made equivalent of $250 million from screens. Do actors really get 15+% of the gross now?  That seems crazy high. 

[Js1 85,454]

26 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

 

This was us. We weren’t going to see this in theatres. Shang Chi is the first movie I’ve seen in theatres since Endgame (ironic), but I went by myself on a Thursday night when there were 6 other people on the theatre.  

My understanding is the box office is split between theatres and movie studio. So they made equivalent of $250 million from screens. Do actors really get 15+% of the gross now?  That seems crazy high. 

SJ got a settlement bc Disney tried to keep everything from the $30 streaming option for themselves bc her contract was only structured for theater and not theater + streaming. Disney decided it was worth 1/3rd of the streaming revenue to let it go. 

BW box office was $360 million + $125 million that Disney tried to keep for themselves 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Js1

[mdmost 43,013]

Scarlett has got a Tower of Terror movie she was going to be working on with Disney that now can proceed. My younger kid loves that ride and we've been watching the old Twilight Zone series with her.  

[Aqua Buddha 14,599]

16 hours ago, Js1 said:

Apparently ScarJo got a $40m settlement of the $125m from the D+ streaming premier. Good for her 

Disney couldn't have backed themselves into a corner more if they tried.  Their argument was that due to covid restrictions, they had to do a dual release but then literally weeks later, released Free Guy exclusive to theaters and then later announced all of their 2021 movies would be the same.

Major props to her for giving them the FUPM.  She has Colin Jost to support, after all.

[Brandywine 1,316]

22 hours ago, Js1 said:

Apparently ScarJo got a $40m settlement of the $125m from the D+ streaming premier. Good for her 

I would never have to work again. And I’d volunteer and live in a nice house and drive a fancy car. 

[Michael Knight 12,989]

15 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

I would never have to work again. And I’d volunteer and live in a nice house and drive a fancy car. 

I mean she was already worth 100+ million

[Brandywine 1,316]

44 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

I mean she was already worth 100+ million

There you go! What more did she need? 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

22 hours ago, Js1 said:

SJ got a settlement bc Disney tried to keep everything from the $30 streaming option for themselves bc her contract was only structured for theater and not theater + streaming. Disney decided it was worth 1/3rd of the streaming revenue to let it go. 

BW box office was $360 million + $125 million that Disney tried to keep for themselves 

I knew actors got paid a lot, but I didn’t realize it was that big of a cut. 

[trza-hawk 269]

You should look at the box office numbers with a little bit of skepticism.

Edited October 2, 2021 by trza-hawk
brevity

[Js1 85,454]

2 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

I knew actors got paid a lot, but I didn’t realize it was that big of a cut. 

I don’t think they usually get a huge cut unless it’s a super A list star franchise actor.  She had money owed to her related to a theatrical release and they violated it by doing the simultaneous release and not sharing anything from the streaming.  They settled at a higher number after horrible PR. 

Quote

Owed royalty payments specifically for theatrical release profits, Johansson's contract guaranteed such a release, a guarantee that was violated by the simultaneous debut on Disney+ Premier Access. D

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Js1

[AUS-97HORN 11,812]

2 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

I knew actors got paid a lot, but I didn’t realize it was that big of a cut. 

I said it previously on the thread, but other than RDJr and maybe Samuel L (depending on him being credited for IM1), she was the 2nd or 3rd longest tenured actor in the series.    they had so many stars in so many of the movies that their contracts were probably in the 500k-2M payment for each movie depending on their amount of on screen time.  Otherwise the movies would have been too costly to make paying every star $20M. 

 

meaning she was in something like 15 marvel movies, but maybe got paid $10-40M  total for those.

 

Every other major star got at least 2 movies dedicated to them where they got their $10-20M per movie. 

 

I absolutely guarantee this movie was presented to her as her "make right" movie back in 2015/16 when they were finalizing the Infinity stones storylines. 

it was her Marvel swan song and her contract reflected that they wanted to give her all the money she had earned for 12 years of Marvel movies. 

 

so the streaming rev was literally taken out of her pocket.  Disney had to cave on that. 

[Frank The Tank 1,497]

12 hours ago, Brandywine said:

There you go! What more did she need? 

To get paid what she was owed under her contract?

[52-80 19,213]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:53 PM, UT_OB1 said:

 

This was us. We weren’t going to see this in theatres. Shang Chi is the first movie I’ve seen in theatres since Endgame (ironic), but I went by myself on a Thursday night when there were 6 other people on the theatre.  

. 

I dont know what deficit spending has to do with Black Widow but the treasury levy income taxes to give the impression that debt issuance can be paid back.  There is demand for USD bonds while the US still has headroom for productivity increases and tax increase (which is still absurdly low). Kill that, and the coupons and rates would need to be astronomical. 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

13 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I dont know what deficit spending has to do with Black Widow but the treasury levy income taxes to give the impression that debt issuance can be paid back.  There is demand for USD bonds while the US still has headroom for productivity increases and tax increase (which is still absurdly low). Kill that, and the coupons and rates would need to be astronomical. 

Thanks!…?

[Brandywine 1,316]

My wife and I went to a multiplex last week for the first time in a year and a half. There was hardly anyone there. There were 6 total in the movie we saw. My concern is making sure the theaters stay open. I don’t want to watch certain movies for the first time streamed on my tv. And a lot of these theaters are barely hanging on.