The Charlie Strong Decision

[HtownHorn 14468]

I laugh at anyone that thinks James Franklin is a good coach. How many big games does he have to continue to lose every year before people understand he runs up the score on everyone he can, but chokes when he plays a team without a huge talent discrepancy. 8-14 against ranked teams while at Penn State, average score 25-31.

[Funk Doctor Spock 11920]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

I laugh at anyone that thinks James Franklin is a good coach. How many big games does he have to continue to lose every year before people understand he runs up the score on everyone he can, but chokes when he plays a team without a huge talent discrepancy. 8-14 against ranked teams while at Penn State, average score 25-31.

I'm with you on this. I don't get the Franklin love, either. He seems like a decent coach for where he's at, but I wouldn't want him at Texas. 

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

Sark before dark would’ve been really something.

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

I laugh at anyone that thinks James Franklin is a good coach. How many big games does he have to continue to lose every year before people understand he runs up the score on everyone he can, but chokes when he plays a team without a huge talent discrepancy. 8-14 against ranked teams while at Penn State, average score 25-31.

This is our logic.  A good coach is one that has either won championships or a young guy de jour that's at a smaller program that can't compete with the big dogs because of program disadvantages.  Everyone else is spare.  So cross off any guy at a P5 program that's not winning championships.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

I hate the offseason 

[HtownHorn 14468]

Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

This is our logic.  A good coach is one that has either won championships or a young guy de jour that's at a smaller program that can't compete with the big dogs because of program disadvantages.  Everyone else is spare.  So cross off any guy at a P5 program that's not winning championships.

No a good coach isn't 8-14 against ranked teams. The evidence is abundant that Franklin is not a good coach.

[Landomatic 3813]

23 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

This is our logic.  A good coach is one that has either won championships or a young guy de jour that's at a smaller program that can't compete with the big dogs because of program disadvantages.  Everyone else is spare.  So cross off any guy at a P5 program that's not winning championships.

You’re missing some context here.  We generally only have that logic with regard to comparing what’s available.  So it’s more like, I’d rather have someone who’s won championships at a P5 than someone who hasn’t.  Which should be a no-brainer, but is somehow lost on people like you when trying to make a point like you’re trying to make.

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

No a good coach isn't 8-14 against ranked teams. The evidence is abundant that Franklin is not a good coach.

I'd say that makes him not elite for sure.  I wouldn't say that takes good away from him.  Which good coaches (to you) at P5 programs have better records against ranked teams in that timeframe?  I'm not trying to be pro Franklin, but it's more of a language argument.  You are using the term good to probably mean elite.  That's fine but there a whole lot of degrees between the top and bottom.  It's not all either elite or they suck.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

32 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

No a good coach isn't 8-14 against ranked teams. The evidence is abundant that Franklin is not a good coach.

Not to mention he covered up rape at Vanderbilt.

We're not Baylor, gawdammit, Casey Horny or no.

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

3 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

You’re missing some context here.  We generally only have that logic with regard to comparing what’s available.  So it’s more like, I’d rather have someone who’s won championships at a P5 than someone who hasn’t.  Which should be a no-brainer, but is somehow lost on people like you when trying to make a point like you’re trying to make.

That's fair.  I agree I stranded from the context of who should we have hired.  I disagree that logic is limited to comparing what's available.  It's pretty much a thing on the internet that if something isn't the best it sucks. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26277]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I hate the offseason 

This is the new normal

[Tex Pete 20168]

2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

I don’t buy this at all. He wouldn’t have taken the Texas job, but he could absolutely succeed here. In the last 6 seasons, which is the applicable time frame, Patterson has one 12 win season and two 11 win seasons at TCU. And he’s done it with guys we don’t want. He would have been a massive upgrade over Strong (and Herman).

But really, Gary Patterson as a person is a piece of shit. He's every bit as egotistical and controlling as Tom Herman, but he's also two-faced, a liar, and a shitty human being.

[RollLeft 5040]

Franklin has done a mediocre job.  Also are we for or against rape cover up because he covered shit up.  He was not a miss.  

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

3 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

But really, Gary Patterson as a person is a piece of shit. He's every bit as egotistical and controlling as Tom Herman, but he's also two-faced, a liar, and a shitty human being.

True, but he won a Rose Bowl once, so there's that.

[Tex Pete 20168]

3 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

True, but he won a Rose Bowl once, so there's that.

For some, that's enough. Hell, people overlook that James Franklin covered up rape while being simultaneously pissed that we hired Casey Horny as an analyst. I'd think Gary Patterson beating up his ex-wife would also be a disqualifier(as well as covering for players who beat their S.O.s), but people on here are fucking weird.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Tex Pete

[Burt Macklin 18996]

5 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

Franklin has done a mediocre job. 

Huh?

He’s 41-10 in his last 4 years with 2 NY6 wins. If PSU wins their bowl game, he’ll have 11 wins 3 of the last 4 years. How is that mediocre?

Im not saying I’d want Franklin as our HC, though he’d undoubtedly be better than Herman, but idk where the fuck people get stuff like he’s done a mediocre job or he’s not good. He got Vandy to 9-4 two years in a row before turning PSU into a team that wins double digits almost every year and wins a NY6 bowl every year or two. 
 

He may not be elite, but the guy is absolutely a good coach. 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

6 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

For some, that's enough. Hell, people overlook that James Franklin covered up rape while being simultaneously pissed that we hired Casey Horny as an analyst. I'd think Gary Patterson beating up his ex-wife would also be a disqualifier(as well as covering for players who beat their S.O.s), but people on here are fucking weird.

Honestly, Herman gets a pass for me on a lot of character flaws simply because of his responses and apparent role in the Zach and Courtney Smith drama.

He doesn't, of course, get a pass for ridiculously stupid hiring decisions, nor for apparently flubbed coaching responsibilities.

[notre dame joe 172]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Huh?

He’s 41-10 in his last 4 years with 2 NY6 wins. If PSU wins their bowl game, he’ll have 11 wins 3 of the last 4 years. How is that mediocre?

Im not saying I’d want Franklin as our HC, though he’d undoubtedly be better than Herman, but idk where the fuck people get stuff like he’s done a mediocre job or he’s not good. He got Vandy to 9-4 two years in a row before turning PSU into a team that wins double digits almost every year and wins a NY6 bowl every year or two. 
 

He may not be elite, but the guy is absolutely a good coach. 

Franklin seems to take it to the 4th qtr against anOSU every year but then his offense hits a wall and loses. Not sure that says very much about his ability because everyone could have the same trouble.

[Fozzz 152]

 

 

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I hate the offseason 

If Herman makes a few half-decent hires the morale of this place will flip by June.

[Jkwellborn 6653]

Franklin has done a mediocre job.  Also are we for or against rape cover up because he covered shit up.  He was not a miss.  

I didn’t want him coaching at Texas because of this. Strangely enough, I wanted Briles until I found out he was a massive piece of shit.

[Bullneck 18987]

4 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

But really, Gary Patterson as a person is a piece of shit. He's every bit as egotistical and controlling as Tom Herman, but he's also two-faced, a liar, and a shitty human being.

 

4 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

For some, that's enough. Hell, people overlook that James Franklin covered up rape while being simultaneously pissed that we hired Casey Horny as an analyst. I'd think Gary Patterson beating up his ex-wife would also be a disqualifier(as well as covering for players who beat their S.O.s), but people on here are fucking weird.

I googled "gary patterson exwife" and "gary patterson domestic violence" and got nothing.  Can you post your link?

[EZ$ 2102]

6 hours ago, Saint Tacky said:

I was told by a BMD that the new coach had already been hired, but that the BMD wasn't told who the coach was (his source was our former AD).  BMD was told only that the deed was done and there was a veiled reference to the new hire's season being over before our own bowl game. 

I got info from a very reliable source that at one point Jimbo told certain members of his staff that they were going to Texas, then something fell apart (probably didn’t have room for KKL on the payroll). 

[swraith 336]

Lost in the wasteland we are.

[TreatyOak 16149]

4 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

But really, Gary Patterson as a person is a piece of shit. He's every bit as egotistical and controlling as Tom Herman, but he's also two-faced, a liar, and a shitty human being.

[Tex Pete 20168]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

I googled "gary patterson exwife" and "gary patterson domestic violence" and got nothing.  Can you post your link?

I have no link to his divorce records. 

[Jkwellborn 6653]

Not enough sweat and towels. Try again.

[Gil Bang 25897]

regarding Peterson, wasn't the story that his kid had some weird medical condition and the best doc in the world for such condition lives/lived in Boise?  

Am I making that up?

[Bullneck 18987]

35 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I have no link to his divorce records. 

Then how do you know?  Something other than divorce records?

[MoJames 8241]

20 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

regarding Peterson, wasn't the story that his kid had some weird medical condition and the best doc in the world for such condition lives/lived in Boise?  

Am I making that up?

I found this. I doubt the best of any type of doc in the world lives in Boise, but I could be wrong.

When Coach Petersen was the receivers coach at Oregon his then one-year-old son, Sam, fell and hit his head during a preseason scrimmage game. What was supposed to be a routine check to make sure everything was alright turned into any parent's worst nightmare. Sam had a brain tumor that had spread to his spine.  

This wake-up call gave Chris Petersen perspective and allowed him to put his ego of becoming a coach at a so-called "major program" on the back burner. Something that has stuck with him since. However, Dan Hawkins knew he wanted Petersen as his offensive coordinator in Boise, and knowing Petersen's situation at home Hawkins made him an unusual offer. He would only have to make recruiting trips in Idaho and for the occasional quarterback. One of those quarterbacks would eventually become Heisman finalist and perennial record breaker, Kellen Moore.    

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

9 hours ago, Fozzz said:

We actually employed this dip shit......   Let that sink in.   

[NateHitch 1282]

Should ban OP to texags cause this is some aggy shit right here

[TwiceHorn 31263]

I don't know why certain people seem to be pissed about this thread.

We haven't discussed the Strong hiring process in great detail in many years, if we ever did.

Sure, we've bitched about Strong plenty, but that's not what this thread is about.

[MoJames 8241]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't know why certain people seem to be pissed about this thread.

We haven't discussed the Strong hiring process in great detail in many years, if we ever did.

Sure, we've bitched about Strong plenty, but that's not what this thread is about.

It certainly wasn't my intention, but some people have thin skin about revisiting conflict. I honestly found it interesting that the majority of the potential hires would've been just as awful as Strong.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

Good thread. Thanks for posting. Brings up old memory lane 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

11 minutes ago, MoJames said:

It certainly wasn't my intention, but some people have thin skin about revisiting conflict. I honestly found it interesting that the majority of the potential hires would've been just as awful as Strong.

My recollection is that there weren't a lot of great choices at the time, certainly no obvious ones.  And,  as noted here, none of the potential choices has exactly set the world on fire.  And there's no evidence they would have duplicated what success they have had (Fleck) elsewhere in Austin.

Edited December 4, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[JBJ 3648]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

regarding Peterson, wasn't the story that his kid had some weird medical condition and the best doc in the world for such condition lives/lived in Boise?  

Am I making that up?

His son's cancer treatments are in Portland or somewhere around there.  Boise was about as far as he was willing to go.

Edited December 4, 2019 by JBJ

[MoJames 8241]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

My recollection is that there weren't a lot of great choices at the time, certainly no obvious ones.  And,  as noted here, none of the potential choices has exactly set the world on fire.  And there's no evidence they would have duplicated what success they have had (Fleck) elsewhere in Austin.

I think the sentiment was Saban or bust on the board by a large majority. Then you had your subsections propping up individual options. The other thing I recall was most if not all really wanted Strong to succeed and felt he potentially would. I think it probably took a good 3-4 months to have the Fire Charlie Strong thread to pop up, but then again it is surly in here so it could've been made before he was hired.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

My recollection is that there weren't a lot of great choices at the time, certainly no obvious ones.  And,  as noted here, none of the potential choices has exactly set the world on fire.  And there's no evidence they would have duplicated what success they have had (Fleck) elsewhere in Austin.

This is mine too.   We hired Charlie because he was the media darling which the ESPNs and other media latch on to as the next up and coming coach who deserves a shot at big name program.  We rinsed and repeated it with Tom as far as the same media driven hype helping to drive the process.  We will know by this time next year if Tom will have his tenure ended similar to Charlie’s.  

[Llewelyn Moss 203]

3 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is mine too.   We hired Charlie because he was the media darling which the ESPNs and other media latch on to as the next up and coming coach who deserves a shot at big name program.  We rinsed and repeated it with Tom as far as the same media driven hype helping to drive the process.  We will know by this time next year if Tom will have his tenure ended similar to Charlie’s.  

He was a search firm hire. 

[softlynow 1783]

With perfect hindsight, the best non-Saban play would've been to let Mack stay, but mandate he bring in Lincoln Riley (one year before OU did) as OC/HCIW.

That or try to get Dan Mullen, I guess.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

3 minutes ago, Llewelyn Moss said:

He was a search firm hire. 

Ok. The search firm bought the hype too.  

Refresh my memory,  on  the different message boards was Charlie generally hyped up by the fan base?   

[Tex Pete 20168]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

Then how do you know?  Something other than divorce records?

It’s in his divorce records. 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

I don't recall him being exactly a media darling.  He was doing well at Lville and Bridgewater was getting a lot of deserved hype.  Shaw and Franklin were kind of similar as young/new head coaches, and possibly also because they were black.  Shaw was intextricable from Stanford (thank God, most likely) and Franklin had the "character issues."

[Tex Pete 20168]

9 minutes ago, softlynow said:

With perfect hindsight, the best non-Saban play would've been to let Mack stay, but mandate he bring in Lincoln Riley (one year before OU did) as OC/HCIW.

That or try to get Dan Mullen, I guess.

Fuck Mack Brown. He was stealing at that point and defiantly refused to do his job. 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

2 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

It’s in his divorce records. 

Divorce records may contain an "allegation" of domestic violence, but unless it was tried and found to be a fact, is likely to be bullshit like most scurrilous allegations in divorce pleadings.

I did see that she was a Morm and he converted.

[MoJames 8241]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Divorce records may contain an "allegation" of domestic violence, but unless it was tried and found to be a fact, is likely to be bullshit like most scurrilous allegations in divorce pleadings.

I did see that she was a Morm and he converted.

I guess you aren't connecting the dots. Tex Pete used to be married to Patterson.

[Tex Pete 20168]

1 minute ago, MoJames said:

I guess you aren't connecting the dots. Tex Pete used to be married to Patterson.

Fat and sweaty isn’t really my type. Don’t believe the college rumors. 😂

[chitown bevo 17]

12 hours ago, SDG said:

Wasn’t Chris Petersen on some list as well?  

Petersen or Harsin would be excellent choices

[Gil Bang 25897]

11 hours ago, WBT said:

That was the thought during the 2013 season.  Then he left and went to Washington.

Harsin was pretty meh last time

[chitown bevo 17]

9 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Harsin was pretty meh last time

I would say Harsin was handcuffed and the proof is look at what he has done since he left. Did well at Ark St, and Boise now they have one loss this year. Mack had Major as a co OC coordinator too. If you look at the Offense setup that Harsin runs and how well he has done since leaving Texas its a much different offense no doubt Mack was sticking his nose into things.