2019 Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State vs Clemson

[NowThis 931]

2 hours ago, Tribe171 said:

Ohio State was obviously the better team. But a combination of injuries, questionable calls, and bad luck allowed Clemson to slip by.

true, they didn't execute perfectly at key moments - the 2 Dobbins drops in the redzone/endzone, 2 INTs, roughing the kicker.  TOSU outgained Clemson 516-417 and had 28 first downs to 21.  Dobbins being out for 3 or 4 series meant they didn't move the ball at all.  JK Dobbins is their most important player and he could have played even better, which would have assured them a victory. I'd say if they played 10 times, Ohio State wins 6.

[NoctambulantBrobdingnagian 530]

8 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

Let’s offer Dabo 20 years 15 million a year?

didn't mean to like this post, mea culpa

 

meant to say, "is he bringing his church and it's voluminous offerings with him?"

[Bevo&Pevo 5,173]

OSU finally played a worthy team and couldn't finish the deal.  LSU had some better opponents (like our boys) during the year.

[Dewey 3,286]

Osu and Clemson are pretty evenly matched, I thought Clemson scored too early, and it looked to be the case, but a bad route or throw, int, and it was over. If Osu coaches and fans want to look at one play overturned, they should look at the entire game, the mistakes that cost them. Clemson made fewer mistakes. 

[David Dennison 18,894]

If you go into turtle mode with three minutes to play on the opponent's 39 up by two, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[EastTexan 662]

On December 8, 2019 at 11:52 AM, USMCHorn said:

December 28th in Glendale, AZ. This one should actually be competitive. I'm taking Clemson in a close one.

Called it dude.

 Glad ohi st got that ass beat. Have not gave shit for them since woody slugged that kid on the side lines.

 Now Clemson has to take care of business. They are the lesser despised of the four. imo.

 

 

[EastTexan 662]

5 hours ago, NowThis said:

true, they didn't execute perfectly at key moments - the 2 Dobbins drops in the redzone/endzone, 2 INTs, roughing the kicker.  TOSU outgained Clemson 516-417 and had 28 first downs to 21.  Dobbins being out for 3 or 4 series meant they didn't move the ball at all.  JK Dobbins is their most important player and he could have played even better, which would have assured them a victory. I'd say if they played 10 times, Ohio State wins 6.

Furk o st!

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

8 hours ago, Tribe171 said:

Ohio State was obviously the better team. But a combination of injuries, questionable calls, and bad luck allowed Clemson to slip by.

Shit post.

[EastTexan 662]

10 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

About that first part, yea maybe.  I get the sense more and more that officials just let shit play out.  If they whistle it there the play is for SURE dead.....hence one of the issues with "that's the way it was called on the field".   think in a lot of those turnover score situations more and more if there is a question they just let it play out and then let replay deal with it.  

Correct. Refs don't want the responsibility. Can't blame them sometimes. Would not want a horde of fat, dumb ass, nose picking, crotch grabbing, snaggled tooth, body stenchy, inbred cock suckers chasing me out the dark tunnel of some stadium.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

8 hours ago, Tribe171 said:

Ohio State was obviously the better team. But a combination of injuries, questionable calls, and bad luck allowed Clemson to slip by.

 

7 hours ago, Pablo said:

there wasn't anything obvious about OSU being better.  Clemson and OSU were very evenly matched, but Clemson had the experience and the bigger playmakers.

it was a great game...

 

7 hours ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Dont agree, from midway in the 2nd quarter till pretty much the end of the game, I felt like Clemson controlled Ohio State through tempo and good defense. They played disciplined and made great in game adjustments that ultimately made the difference in the end. 

We’ll never know, but I honestly think Ohio State wins by 10+ if wade doesn’t come in like a fucking idiot with the crown of his helmet and get ejected from the game. That was the turning point in the game. Ohio state dominated up until that point. Did Clemson come back because that play lit a fire under their ass? Did Ohio state deflate after one of their best players got ejected from the game? Was it neither, and eventually Clemson was going to mount a comeback either way? Well never know, but I think Ohio state wins by 10 if not for that play. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,188]

Don't turnover the ball. Don't take a stupid targeting penalty. Don't run right into the punter. Don't allow the QB to run 67-yards for a TD.

In other words, play better football. 

[Huckleberry 32,896]

11 hours ago, troph said:

Reversal still seems like an egregious call.

Been thinking about this. Receiver's forward progress had clearly been stopped. I think if that play had been called perfectly it's a completion and no fumble. 

Let's put aside the aspect of instant replay and imagine the two extremes. First extreme: if the ball had been knocked out during the receiver's first step then everyone could agree that he hadn't demonstrated control long enough so it's an incomplete pass. Other extreme: If the ball had been knocked out after 10 steps then everyone could agree forward progress had been stopped and the play was over. 

So in order for that to correctly be a defensive touchdown we have to say that the receiver demonstrated control long enough for it to be a completion but that his forward progress hadn't been stopped. I don't see it. The receiver was moving backward from the moment of the reception and just as importantly never moved forward or even fought to move forward. 

Now as for instant replay, forward progress isn't reviewable and you have to have indisputable evidence to overturn. So I can agree with the argument that it shouldn't have been overturned. But in terms of justice? In that case I don't think it should have been an Ohio State touchdown. 

[Dewey 3,286]

I think the biggest turning point is when Clemson played the better game and won. 

[Beau Vine 54,246]

11 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

About that first part, yea maybe.  I get the sense more and more that officials just let shit play out.  If they whistle it there the play is for SURE dead.....hence one of the issues with "that's the way it was called on the field".   think in a lot of those turnover score situations more and more if there is a question they just let it play out and then let replay deal with it.  

I've seen them let plays like that play out, then come back and announce that the call on the field is incomplete.  Letting it "play out" does not mean you have to make the call that would not have stopped the play.

[Hagbard Celine 10,867]

11 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Maybe I have battered Herman syndrome. But anytime I see this scenario I assume an automatic L because Texas never stops anyone 

this.  later in the season after fucking up several times in this manner in prior games (beginning with the end of the lsu first half) we actually managed the clock correctly on a very late game winning drive.  can't remember what game.

 

it's all a blur.

battered herman syndrome.

[Nivek 16,943]

3 steps with possession , then a strip.

If you want to point out calls there were two targeting hits on Trevor on that same drive. There were more than a few pi’s not called on ohio state as well.

Take the loss, pussy.

[Bevo 13,577]

10 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I've seen them let plays like that play out, then come back and announce that the call on the field is incomplete.  Letting it "play out" does not mean you have to make the call that would not have stopped the play.

Exactly. Just let the play finish and then make the call.

[Hagbard Celine 10,867]

11 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Have a safe flight home tOSU. Clemson v LSU should be good, but holy shit they’re gonna need a better start than they had tonight.

way upthread i repped someone's take about Clemson starting slow because they haven't seen this level of competition in a year, but once they got going they were an equal match.  dabo should have them ready in 2 weeks.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

13 minutes ago, Dewey said:

I think the biggest turning point is when Clemson played the better game and won. 

Well sure but had Clemson not played better Ohio State would have probably won by 10+.

Edited December 29, 2019 by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

[Wraith 3]

We need a committee to assess all these ‘what ifs’ and declare a proper winner.

[Horndog 2,228]

13 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

 

[Horn80 6,127]

Talk about a painful loss for OSU.

[PittsburghTiger 6,188]

Ohio State's first five possessions amassed 297 yards, but resulted in just one TD & 3 FGs. Clemson's first four possessions amassed 86 yards and a missed FG. The fifth possession, for Clemson, when OSU could have ended it but instead targeted Lawrence and that leads to a TD rather than Clemson's fourth straight punt.

The Buckeyes would have led 16-0 with all the momentum in the world. After the targeting possession was finished and Clemson scored they still had only 161 yards to OSU's 297. After that OSU had just over 200 yards of offense.

Three drives, totaling 31 plays and 221 yards led to nine points, not 21, for the Bucks.

It's like Memphis having more yards than State Pen yesterday. Score touchdowns, instead of FGs, and you win. Memphis had 6 FGs yesterday and the Nitters scored TDs. 

[Nivek 16,943]

true, they didn't execute perfectly at key moments - the 2 Dobbins drops in the redzone/endzone, 2 INTs, roughing the kicker.  TOSU outgained Clemson 516-417 and had 28 first downs to 21.  Dobbins being out for 3 or 4 series meant they didn't move the ball at all.  JK Dobbins is their most important player and he could have played even better, which would have assured them a victory. I'd say if they played 10 times, Ohio State wins 6.

Okay, matt leinart.

But see they did play and Clemson won 100% of the time. All you have left is your fantasies.

[XYZ 2,154]

“Ohio State was obviously the better team”

Also, USC was the better team on 1/4/2006. Who gives a shit.

[pyrohornIII 4,815]

Sometimes being the better team doesn't work.  Even when it's obvious.  Sometimes hubris gets in the way.

[C-Man 27,230]

I think the biggest turning point is when Clemson played the better game and won. 

You mean by scoring 29 of the final 36 points scored in the game?

[Hagbard Celine 10,867]

11 hours ago, bamachine said:

Fully aware of the way the rest feel about Bama. I just do not want Clemson to win another and become an even bigger monster. I am kinda hoping this is mostly a one and done thing for LSU. Not that they will completely collapse but if they loses several coaches, along with their generational QB, they will be easier to deal with down the road. 

Do you want us and the rest of college football to get on board with you?  Drop the FCS creampuff across the board, play another crossover game in it's place, and require a P5 ooc home & home contract being played every year by every school in your league.  Neutral site P5 OOC does not fulfill the P5 ooc home & home requirement.  From 1941 to 1965 you played Georgia home and away every year.  Beginning 53 years ago in 1966 with only 11 teams in your league you started ducking each other.

In the last 53 years:

ALGA games in Athens: 1972, 1976, 1985, 1990, 2003, 2008, 2015 (7)

ALGA games in Tuscaloosa/Birmingham: 1973, 1977, 1984, 1991, 1994, 2002, 2007 (7)

You have ducked each other in the regular season 39 of the last 53 years.

You play Georgia next year, but do you turn around and actually do a home and home with the same players?

Of course not.

Do you play them again in '21?  Nope.

'22? Nope.

'23? Nope.

'24? Nope.

'25? Nope.

And that's as far out as your league has "fixed" your league opponents.

At the end of the 2025 regular season you will have ducked Georgia 45 of the prior 60 years.

75% of the time.

The bottom line is you and your league don't have a say or any ground to stand on when it comes to having any position on anything in college football.

[hookem48 4,692]

11 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

you realize if he caught that in the endzone and got stripped after those 3 steps it would have been called a TD- right?  

 

so if its a TD if caught and 3 steps taken in the endzone, its a fucking fumble if caught and 3 steps taken in the field

why would the same replay official call it different in the endzone?

[texaslong 678]

Amazing that all Day can talk about right now is the officiating. His players have moved on and didn't even bring up the officiating yesterday. Day needs to stop being a little bitch and man up. 

[Surly Bevo 24,980]

Exactly. Just let the play finish and then make the call.

Wut are you guys talking about? In a sport becoming more and more obsessed with player safety you are saying that an official KNOWS it’s incomplete and then lets a return where guys routinely get blown the fuck up and injured etc just carry out.

If you are CERTAIN make the call. Don’t retcon shit. If you are uncertain you let it play out. Your whistle is there to protect players when there is nothing more to be gained or lost from a particular play.

There can’t be this “oh we knew it was incomplete all along but decided we would it play out didn’t blow the whistle and Trevor Lawrence got his ACL demolished in the ensuing return that didn’t matter because it was incomplete all along.... LOL Sorry not sorry”

[Surly Bevo 24,980]

Exactly. Just let the play finish and then make the call.

Wut are you guys talking about? In a sport becoming more and more obsessed with player safety you are saying that an official KNOWS it’s incomplete and then lets a return where guys routinely get blown the fuck up and injured etc just carry out.

If you are CERTAIN make the call. Don’t retcon shit. If you are uncertain you let it play out. Your whistle is there to protect players when there is nothing more to be gained or lost from a particular play.

There can’t be this “oh we knew it was incomplete all along but decided we would it play out didn’t blow the whistle and Trevor Lawrence got his ACL demolished in the ensuing return that didn’t matter because it was incomplete all along.... LOL Sorry not sorry”

[Surly Bevo 24,980]

And I fully understand that the problem there is was the guy just uncertain and let it play out or was he certain it was a catch and a fumble...that’s what’s really hard to tell but they way this officials reacted tends to lead me to believe they were just letting it play out”

Officials actually need to become more accountable for signaling what they believe is going on as the play is happening. Unfortunately it’s gone the other way where there is a lot of sort of passive officiating and staring at each other.

[Hagbard Celine 10,867]

12 hours ago, dcar00 said:

OU is crying about the officiating in a 35 point drubbing?

early on they were apoplectic when they were getting flagged for holding and then went berserk when a clear PI was not called for them.

in other words, another day at the office for all of their league opponents.

[Huckleberry 32,896]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

early on they were apoplectic when they were getting flagged for holding and then went berserk when a clear PI was not called for them.

in other words, another day at the office for all of their league opponents.

The holding thing also needs to be addressed at a national level. During the second semifinal, the announcer actually quoted their officiating expert as saying that DBs can hold, but they just can't severely impede the receiver. 

That's bullshit and it's the same thing that has devolved into a holdfest on the offensive side. Grabbing and holding is a penalty. Fucking call it and they will stop doing it. The college rulebook actually specifically states the legal ways to block an opponent including hand placement and positioning. If you're not doing that then you're cheating. Call it. 

[Js1 85,353]

 

[C-Man 27,230]

The holding thing also needs to be addressed at a national level. During the second semifinal, the announcer actually quoted their officiating expert as saying that DBs can hold, but they just can't severely impede the receiver.
That's bullshit and it's the same thing that has devolved into a holdfest on the offensive side. Grabbing and holding is a penalty. Fucking call it and they will stop doing it. The college rulebook actually specifically states the legal ways to block an opponent including hand placement and positioning. If you're not doing that then you're cheating. Call it. 

It was actually Fowler who said that, I think.

On-air official was all over Dobbins’ drop and non-fumble strip. Officials could blow dead and give Bucks ball if there’s clear recovery. They just wouldn’t get TD.

[bamachine 1,231]

2 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

 

The bottom line is you and your league don't have a say or any ground to stand on when it comes to having any position on anything in college football.

Cut out all but your bottom line. My post was about what I want, not what anyone else wants. On here, it is all about what "I" want, that goes for every individual "I" that posts here. As for Bama and their SEC schedule, they have no control over that, they have repeatedly asked to go to 9 game conference schedule but keep getting voted down by the rest of the conference. A few more have joined in, each year but still not enough. Saban has also said he would like all P5 teams to adopt a P5 only schedule. Of course, he is not going to jump on the grenade and hope everyone else follows. Why should he make it harder, when his program gets the benefit of the doubt many times anyway. They have went back to marquee home and home series starting after next year. They have home and homes set up with Texas, Notre Dame, Florida State(maybe by then they will be good again). The two years of the FSU home and home, '25 and '26, they also have Wisconsin('25) and WVU('26) on the schedule.

My last post in this thread, on this subject. I merely expressed my wishes for the results of the title game and my reasoning, then every Dick, Dick and Dick on here wanted to draw me into some form of debate. Bunch of assholes, I tell ya.

[Jkwellborn 6,704]

Saban is only saying that shot because he knows it will never happen but it makes him look like he’s trying.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

On 12/28/2019 at 9:54 AM, Snacks said:

 

 

But as you state, Clemson hasnt played anyone that could walk through an open, other than aggy.

 

 

I'm not going to say I predicted that outcome per se, but Ohio State lost in the way I thought they might: they gave too many chances to the first team on their schedule that had both the athletes to take advantage of it, and the athletes to likewise prevent Ohio State from simply deciding "OK, we need to play with more focus for a bit" and re-seizing control of the game.

Against Penn State, that kind of loss of focus cut a 21-0 lead to 21-17 before Ohio State took a deep breath and pushed it back to 11 and then held it there. Against Clemson, they didn't have the same margin for error and couldn't just buckle down and impose their will and win. They blew their chance to control the game with sloppiness, and then they lost a dogfight in the final seconds. 

[MrPhlegm 3,413]

Ohio State was obviously the better team. But a combination of injuries, questionable calls, and bad luck allowed Clemson to slip by.

[BradInATX 9,208]

6 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

And I fully understand that the problem there is was the guy just uncertain and let it play out or was he certain it was a catch and a fumble...that’s what’s really hard to tell but they way this officials reacted tends to lead me to believe they were just letting it play out”

Officials actually need to become more accountable for signaling what they believe is going on as the play is happening. Unfortunately it’s gone the other way where there is a lot of sort of passive officiating and staring at each other.
 

No way man. This take couldn't be more wrong. The officials need to be less authoritative as the play is happening and err on the side of "let the play finish then make a call and figure it out". Whether or not you believe the result of the review was correct, letting the play run is the correct call. 

The alternative is that they blow it dead as it unfolds, and we end up with absolute garbage like this: https://www.neworleanssaints.com/video/cam-jordan-fumble-touchdown-called-back-new-oleans-saints-la-rams-highlights

The game is ridiculously fast and the refs are generally terrible. The powers that be should always tell them to err on the side of letting the play unfold, then figure it out later. Under no circumstances should we try to put more snap judgement calls in the hands of the referees who have proven time and time again they can't get those right on a consistent basis.

Edited December 30, 2019 by BradInATX

[Surly Bevo 24,980]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

No way man. This take couldn't be more wrong. The officials need to be less authoritative as the play is happening and err on the side of "let the play finish then make a call and figure it out". Whether or not you believe the result of the review was correct, letting the play run is the correct call. 

The alternative is that they blow it dead as it unfolds, and we end up with absolute garbage like this: https://www.neworleanssaints.com/video/cam-jordan-fumble-touchdown-called-back-new-oleans-saints-la-rams-highlights

The game is ridiculously fast and the refs are generally terrible. The powers that be should always tell them to err on the side of letting the play unfold, then figure it out later. Under no circumstances should we try to put more snap judgement calls in the hands of the referees who have proven time and time again they can't get those right on a consistent basis.

That's fine....then replace them with cameras and AI completely.  But if they are going to be there they need to add value.  Personally I would just get rid of them.  They don't ever even have to face the media and explain themselves to the public so might as well be some computer.  

Edited December 30, 2019 by Surly Bevo

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, Surly Bevo said:

That's fine....then replace them with cameras and AI completely.  But if they are going to be there they need to add value.  Personally I would just get rid of them.

I'm perfectly good with that.

[C-Man 27,230]

22 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Yes! Our hiring Yurcich to keep Ohio State from winning worked just as Tom planned!

Latest narrative among Buckeye mouth-breathers is that Ryan Day told Yurcich to find another job for 2020.

[Modessit 5,603]

Latest narrative among Buckeye mouth-breathers is that Ryan Day told Yurcich to find another job for 2020.

Yurcich: I'm taking the Texas OC job.

Day: Get out of here with that bullshit.

Bucknuts: Day told Yurcich to leave.

[texaslong 678]

56 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Latest narrative among Buckeye mouth-breathers is that Ryan Day told Yurcich to find another job for 2020.

The old "you can't quit, you're fired!" It makes the Buckeye fans feel better. 

[Jim Tressell’s Vest 10]

That was 100% a fumble and that’s all I have to say 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

5 hours ago, Jim Tressell’s Vest said:

That was 100% a fumble and that’s all I have to say 

In real time, I thought it was obviously not a catch. On replay, I thought it was obviously a catch. Therefore using replay to overturn the ruling of catch on the field felt fucking crazy.

It's a shame for Ohio State, they're never going to have a better team than this one. 

[Pam Cummings 9,644]

Lol at OSU fans having the audacity to bitch about reffing.

 

First off, fuck you. Bad officiating won you the championship against Miami. That is the most atrocious call i've ever seen.

 

Second, that dude didn't clearly possess the ball for long enough, i dont give a shit how many "steps" he took. Those weren't steps anyway as much as they were his feet kind of shuffling because he was having to work back to the ball at a weird angle.  

 

Also, here's what the rule says about whether something is a catch or not:

 

3. Maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent

 

Under this definition here, he didn't advance the ball, and he damn sure didn't maintain the ball as he tried to ward off the opponent. The rules say literally nothing about number of steps. That is an incomplete pass all fucking day you maroons.

 

Fuck Ohio St and fuck their whiny bitch coach and fans. Play better and let's go Clemson.