2019 Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State vs Clemson

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

NSIAP

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Bad officiating won you the championship against Miami. That is the most atrocious call i've ever seen.

ignorant

[Huckleberry 32997]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Lol at OSU fans having the audacity to bitch about reffing.

 

First off, fuck you. Bad officiating won you the championship against Miami. That is the most atrocious call i've ever seen.

 

Second, that dude didn't clearly possess the ball for long enough, i dont give a shit how many "steps" he took. Those weren't steps anyway as much as they were his feet kind of shuffling because he was having to work back to the ball at a weird angle.  

 

Also, here's what the rule says about whether something is a catch or not:

 

3. Maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent

 

Under this definition here, he didn't advance the ball, and he damn sure didn't maintain the ball as he tried to ward off the opponent. The rules say literally nothing about number of steps. That is an incomplete pass all fucking day you maroons.

 

Fuck Ohio St and fuck their whiny bitch coach and fans. Play better and let's go Clemson.

The pass interference call on Miami was correct. 

[wood 11227]

34 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

NSIAP

 

Seriously. When did running with the ball stop being a football move?

[C-Man 27230]

Seriously. When did running with the ball stop being a football move?

Running with the ball? I don’t think that happened. He gets his hands on the ball as he’s working back to Lawrence and is pushed by the defender. His feet hit the ground 2-3 times as he’s trying to secure the ball when it is knocked free. I don’t think he had it long enough for it to be a fumble.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

49 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The pass interference call on Miami was correct. 

It was questionable at best, most of the contact came within 5 yds of the line of scrimmage, and the flag was thrown waaaaayyyy late by a guy who did not have the angle to make the call. The judge who was watching the play, literally standing right there, did not throw a flag. It was garbage. You don't make that call in that situation.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It was questionable at best

nice backpedal

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

most of the contact came within 5 yds of the line of scrimmage

so, defensive holding then? you're mad because you think the wrong technical call was made?  

and FYI, the official review of the play by the Big 12 found four separate infractions by Glen Sharpe on that play-- holding, interference, another hold, and another interference. He had decided no matter what he wasn't letting Gamble catch the ball, and he got called for it as the DB usually does when they take that approach

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

the flag was thrown waaaaayyyy late

was the flag right, or wrong? the flag being late has absolutely nothing to do with whether it was the right call or not

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

If that play is in the endzone is it ruled a touchdown?  I believe it is and if that's so it was a fumble.

On to next year.  It was a great season.  Now we get to see how many juniors are lost to the NFL draft.  I can't blame any of them for going.  They're great players and represented the university well.

[Huckleberry 32997]

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It was questionable at best, 

You've already backed way off "worst call I've ever seen."

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

most of the contact came within 5 yds of the line of scrimmage, 

Completely irrelevant as the 5 yards illegal contact zone was not a part of the college football rulebook.

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

and the flag was thrown waaaaayyyy late by a guy who did not have the angle to make the call.

The flag was shown on TV late but wasn't actually thrown that late. And the guy who threw it had a great angle.

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

The judge who was watching the play, literally standing right there, did not throw a flag.

Both refs were "standing right there." One was to the side and one was behind.

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It was garbage. You don't make that call in that situation.

This opinion is garbage and is everything wrong with late game sports officiating. If it's a penalty on the first play of the game then it's a penalty on the last play of the game. This mindset essentially rewards the team more willing to cheat in a late game situation. It's dumb and you should feel bad about having that opinion.

It was 100% pass interference and there is so reasonable argument otherwise. Your post is like every other argument against it. 

"The flag was late!"
"The closest guy didn't throw it!"
"You can't call that in that situation!"

Notice what none of these arguments are saying. None of them are actually saying it wasn't pass interference. That's because it was pass interference.

 

 

Sharpe must be The Flash because it's incredible how he has Gamble completely wrapped up a tenth of a second after the ball got there without interfering. Hold on, wait a second, he's even faster than that. He has Gamble wrapped up a millisecond after the ball arrived:

It's almost like he initiated contact before the ball got there. If only there were some way to know.

 

"Man what a terrible angle." lulz

This official is literally right there watching the play which is 100% his responsibility.

"It was thrown late!" lulz

The flag is already hitting the ground and Gamble is still looking around to see if a ref is going to throw it. DJ Williams isn't even celebrating because he saw the ref throwing it before he started to get excited.

 

[Gene Parmesan 4008]

Did I just witness a murder?

[MrPhlegm 3413]

That's fine....then replace them with cameras and AI completely.  But if they are going to be there they need to add value.  Personally I would just get rid of them.  They don't ever even have to face the media and explain themselves to the public so might as well be some computer.  

I'm perfectly good with that.

replace with ai? wtf? what a stupid thing to advocate. boeing replaced the pilots' judgement with ai on the 737 max. utterly stupid.

if you do that stadiums every where will crash into the ground killing 10s of thousands.

open the pod bay door hal.

[utee94 15832]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Did I just witness a murder?

Justifiable homicide.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

In real time, I thought it was obviously not a catch. On replay, I thought it was obviously a catch. Therefore using replay to overturn the ruling of catch on the field felt fucking crazy.
It's a shame for Ohio State, they're never going to have a better team than this one. 

idoit.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

"There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer's hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone."

 

So please, tell me, based on the pass interference rule clearly laid out as above, where is the PI? The defender is not restricting the receiver after the ball leaves the QB's hand.

 

Plays like that happen ALL THE TIME and no PI gets called.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[MrPhlegm 3413]

NSIAP
 

worst Vince Young impression evah!

[Parliament 14260]

Sad pizza is this thing we do.

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, MrPhlegm said:

replace with ai? wtf? what a stupid thing to advocate. boeing replaced the pilots' judgement with ai on the 737 max. utterly stupid.

if you do that stadiums every where will crash into the ground killing 10s of thousands.

open the pod bay door hal.

We're not literally talking about replacing all the refs with AI tomorrow. It's a theoretical. Jesus.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

ignorant

yes you are

[Huckleberry 32997]

3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

"There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer's hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone."

 

So please, tell me, based on the pass interference rule clearly laid out as above, where is the PI? The defender is not restricting the receiver after the ball leaves the QB's hand.

I literally just posted a photo showing Sharpe restricting Gamble after the ball left Krenzel's hand.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

We're not literally talking about replacing all the refs with AI tomorrow. It's a theoretical. Jesus.

theoretical Jesus?

wtf?

you non computer literate morons are pathetic.

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, MrPhlegm said:

theoretical Jesus?

wtf?

you non computer literate morons are pathetic.

Get some sleep.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I literally just posted a photo showing Sharpe restricting Gamble after the ball left Krenzel's hand.

That shit is so cherrypicked. You can't tell who is initiating the contact based on that photo.

 

Furthermore, the ball hits Gamble in the fucking hands on that play. He should have made that catch. He did not deserve to be bailed out.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[EastTexan 662]

2 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

NSIAP

 

Sign this dude up.

[Huckleberry 32997]

24 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

That shit is so cherrypicked. You can't tell who is initiating the contact based on that photo.

 

Furthermore, the ball hits Gamble in the fucking hands on that play. He should have made that catch. He did not deserve to be bailed out.

You're all over the place. You can easily tell who is initiating the contact because Gamble's body is bent awkwardly back toward the ball.

Then your second paragraph is more of the same silliness that has nothing to do with the rules. Defensive pass interference should be nullified if the pass hits the receiver's hands now? That's somehow even worse than some of your previous points.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You're all over the place. You can easily tell who is initiating the contact because Gamble's body is bent awkwardly back toward the ball.

Then your second paragraph is more of the same silliness that has nothing to do with the rules. Defensive pass interference should be nullified if the pass hits the receiver's hands now? That's somehow even worse than some of your previous points.

Gamble is turning back to find the ball. You really can't tell what contact, if any, occurred from the photo you posted. What i'm saying is that if it is so egregious like you say, he wouldn't have been able to make the play on the ball.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I locked horns once with @Huckleberry re: an official’s call many years ago. After dozens of posts and even more screenshots, it ended in a draw.

[Scholz 11944]

Bang bang play.  Fumble/no fumble could've been called either way.  The game is fast.

That said, I can't get enough Buckeye tears.  They are sweet to be sure.  Buncha loudmouthed douchebags, the entire fanbase.  Very glad they lost.

[Pam Cummings 9645]

11 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I locked horns once with @Huckleberry re: an official’s call many years ago. After dozens of posts and even more screenshots, it ended in a draw.

I just wanted to share a "fuck ohio state" moment with yall. Guess i forgot where i was.

[Fico 1787]

 What has been touched on, and what is not reviewable but should absolutely be taken into account when looking at the play, is forward progress.  It is either an incomplete pass, or a catch and a tackle as forward progress was clearly stopped.  If we want to debate the call on the field and the ability to overturn that is one conversation,  but by the letter of the rule that was not a fumble.  In the end the correct call was made.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

18 minutes ago, Fico said:

forward progress was clearly stopped.

You think on that play there was enough time for his forward progress to be stopped???

[Huckleberry 32997]

8 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

You think on that play there was enough time for his forward progress to be stopped???

Considering he never made forward progress, absolutely. He took four steps backwards relative to the field. Fourth step as the ball starts to come out. If he had never dropped the ball where would it have been spotted?

edited to add: That's not all that matters, of course, but forward progress was established 4 steps before the fumble and the receiver (ball carrier at that point) never made an attempt to regain ground.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Huckleberry

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Considering he never made forward progress, absolutely. He took four steps backwards relative to the field. Fourth step as the ball starts to come out. If he had never dropped the ball where would it have been spotted?

I don't think that's how the person I was responding to meant it, conceptually. He referenced a tackle, meaning forward progress was stopped/the play was over. Are you saying you think the receiver was "tackled", in the sense of his forward progress being stopped? 

[Bill Lumbergh 7171]

I found it telling that the replay analyst on the broadcast predicted that the ruling of a fumble would be overturned, and it was.

So, the trained official reviewing the play for broadcast thought it wasn't a catch and fumble, the trained officials reviewing the play for the game ruled it wasn't a fumble, a bunch of Ohio State fans plus Ryan day and Kirk herbstreit think osu was robbed, and most other reasonable fans are divided on the call.

I know whose opinion I trust most out of that sample for what the correct call should have been.

[Saint Tacky 1614]

I missed the game this weekend and watched the replay last night. Football move or not, there wasn't enough evidence to overrule to call on the field of possession and fumble.  If that catch had been in the end-zone, it would have been in his possession long enough to be considered a touchdown.

Not going for two and then the third down bubble screen as well as not going for it on 4th down in the final possession and punting instead certainly fly in the face of the 4th and 1 call for Ohio State's last touchdown.  It seemed akin to folding with a good hand on the chance you might lose to a better one.  Disappointing because Ohio State versus LSU had a better chance of being more interesting. 

[wood 11227]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

This opinion is garbage and is everything wrong with late game sports officiating. If it's a penalty on the first play of the game then it's a penalty on the last play of the game. This mindset essentially rewards the team more willing to cheat in a late game situation. It's dumb and you should feel bad about having that opinion

Spot on.

The whole "the refs shouldn't influence the outcome by calling a penalty in [x] situation" line of thinking is complete and utter nonsense. By not calling the penalty they would call any other time, influencing the outcome of the game is precisely what they're doing.

[Jim Tressell’s Vest 10]

8 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Lol at OSU fans having the audacity to bitch about reffing.

 

First off, fuck you. Bad officiating won you the championship against Miami. That is the most atrocious call i've ever seen.

 

Second, that dude didn't clearly possess the ball for long enough, i dont give a shit how many "steps" he took. Those weren't steps anyway as much as they were his feet kind of shuffling because he was having to work back to the ball at a weird angle.  

 

Also, here's what the rule says about whether something is a catch or not:

 

3. Maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent

 

Under this definition here, he didn't advance the ball, and he damn sure didn't maintain the ball as he tried to ward off the opponent. The rules say literally nothing about number of steps. That is an incomplete pass all fucking day you maroons.

 

Fuck Ohio St and fuck their whiny bitch coach and fans. Play better and let's go Clemson.

I also don’t care how many steps he took, but controlling the ball, collecting his footing and turning to go up field sure seems pretty “common” in any game I’ve seen 

[Huckleberry 32997]

1 minute ago, Jim Tressell’s Vest said:

I also don’t care how many steps he took, but controlling the ball, collecting his footing and turning to go up field sure seems pretty “common” in any game I’ve seen 

I agree that the replay overturn was incorrect, but the receiver never turned to go upfield. He was turned by the defensive back while still moving backward.

The ball was also already out by the time he was turned.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Jim Tressell’s Vest 10]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

I agree that the replay overturn was incorrect, but the receiver never turned to go upfield. He was turned by the defensive back while still moving backward.

Eh, debatable, but nonetheless less he made a football move or two and the call should certainly should not have been overturned. If they had ruled It incomplete and then confirmed the decision it’d be different, but there wasn’t enough evidence to support an overturn there 

[C-Man 27230]

22 hours ago, Saint Tacky said:

Football move or not, there wasn't enough evidence to overrule to call on the field of possession and fumble.  If that catch had been in the end-zone, it would have been in his possession long enough to be considered a touchdown.

I keep seeing the "not enough evidence to overrule" as justification here. I actually applaud the officials for letting the play run it's course and then the replay guy looked at it and triggered the review. If they'd blown the play dead initially, you bring into play whether there was a clear recovery and you'd have eliminated the TD possibility for Ohio State. The play is so bang-bang and I honestly could've seen it ruled either way. It's about as close a play as I can remember in such a big game. Full disclosure: I am in no way a non-biased observer either. I'd probably be pretty pissed if I was a Buckeyes fan. But I'm not, so fuck 'em.