BMW Audi and Benz Reliability and Cost

[Buzzrock 14903]

Motor and tranny mounts?  What'd that cost?

I don’t recall now, it was winter of 2018. It was expensive though. Mechanic said that mounts have become much more complex as everyone has chased the “Lexus ride”. Mounts on a Honda Odyssey cost as much as the ones on my Audi.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I don’t recall now, it was winter of 2018. It was expensive though. Mechanic said that mounts have become much more complex as everyone has chased the “Lexus ride”. Mounts on a Honda Odyssey cost as much as the ones on my Audi.

 

Well if Audi would quit using buzzy fourbangers for every damn thing, they wouldnt have to worry about it as much.

The worst thing about replacing motor mounts and tranny is you have to essentially remove them both from the chassis.

[wild_turkey 3159]

Wife has been interested in a BMW X5. We test drove a couple and liked them and the reviews are consistently good.

I’m kinda surprised reading this thread with multiple people expressing quality concerns. Is that legit or just anecdotal?

[Telegraph_it 3357]

At this point I’ll only lease a BMW. Just took my wife’s X3M in for yearly service and didn’t have to pay a dime. I realize it’s only a year old but there was one warranty item that was fixed and the oil changes are included.
 

It’s nice knowing that my only cost is the lease payment and insurance premium barring some at fault accident.
 

Also, I cannot recommend leasing a loaner vehicle from BMW enough. BMW does not title their fleet so they are considered new and don’t take a residual hit. I was able to get 15% off sticker and then BMW loyalty cash which brought my payment sub $500 with no money down except TT&L. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

38 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Wife has been interested in a BMW X5. We test drove a couple and liked them and the reviews are consistently good.

I’m kinda surprised reading this thread with multiple people expressing quality concerns. Is that legit or just anecdotal?

It's hard to find reliability information.  Reviews almost never include it.  It took C/D a month or two to update the jizz-splashed review of the AR Giulia Quadrifoglio with the horrors from its long-term test.

It's why I posted this thread.  Most of my friends that have had BMWs have sworn off them, but that was 10 years ago or more.  So I am biased against, but my information is out of date.  I have one friend that's an Audi-phile, but he admits to a fair share of problems and trades before warranty expires.

Edited December 12, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[G650 14243]

I can only comment on my own experience really, my X5s have been fine.

I will say I despised BMW before I got them because they are douchebag cars, and I still somewhat feel that way. The two I've had have been so ridiculously nice to drive though I basically had to suck it up and keep getting them.

 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

6 minutes ago, G650 said:

I can only comment on my own experience really, my X5s have been fine.

I will say I despised BMW before I got them because they are douchebag cars, and I still somewhat feel that way. The two I've had have been so ridiculously nice to drive though I basically had to suck it up and keep getting them.

 

Both Ms or no?

[G650 14243]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Both Ms or no?

One 4.8 and one M

[XYZ 2154]

All I can say is that I will never own a Mercedes again. I once had a 300D. Those things were supposed to easily get to 300k miles and more, and I’m sure that many of them did. But mine, my fucking car, with 78k miles, the timing chain broke and destroyed the engine. $11k repair. Fuck that.

[G650 14243]

So one Mercedes broke and you will never get another Mercedes again for ever and ever cross your heart?

[52-80 19147]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's hard to find reliability information.  Reviews almost never include it.  It took C/D a month or two to update the jizz-splashed review of the AR Giulia Quadrifoglio with the horrors from its long-term test.

It's why I posted this thread.  Most of my friends that have had BMWs have sworn off them, but that was 10 years ago or more.  So I am biased against, but my information is out of date.  I have one friend that's an Audi-phile, but he admits to a fair share of problems and trades before warranty expires.

i dont think you'll be shielded from any unforeseen repairs with any brand save for maybe lexus.  so get what you want, with original or extended warranty.  i wouldnt hesitate getting a G20 or a G30 platform car.  those things are nice.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

18 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's hard to find reliability information.  Reviews almost never include it.  It took C/D a month or two to update the jizz-splashed review of the AR Giulia Quadrifoglio with the horrors from its long-term test.

It's why I posted this thread.  Most of my friends that have had BMWs have sworn off them, but that was 10 years ago or more.  So I am biased against, but my information is out of date.  I have one friend that's an Audi-phile, but he admits to a fair share of problems and trades before warranty expires.

I should add that you can kind of get a feel for reliability just by googling a model.  Places like Repair Pal, truedelta, and reviews at various car aficianado and consumer sites can give you a kind of heuristic, if not statistically valid, sense of reliability.

Those places have most BMWs, including X series, rated below average in general reliability and above-average in repair cost.  My sense is that the data may be biased by older models.  By the same token, Audi is fairly average to slightly below average and I think most tend to think improving from a bad place, so maybe the data isn't skewed.  Benz is just average like most domestic vehicles, and the usual Japanese suspects top it out.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

18 hours ago, XYZ said:

All I can say is that I will never own a Mercedes again. I once had a 300D. Those things were supposed to easily get to 300k miles and more, and I’m sure that many of them did. But mine, my fucking car, with 78k miles, the timing chain broke and destroyed the engine. $11k repair. Fuck that.

Well, in the days of a 300D, just about any car was subject to timing chain failure around 100k miles.  Usually, such a failure is rather predictable.  Did someone at the shop screw the pooch?

[XYZ 2154]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, in the days of a 300D, just about any car was subject to timing chain failure around 100k miles.  Usually, such a failure is rather predictable.  Did someone at the shop screw the pooch?

The dealer had checked the chain at 75k. And it’s not just the chain failure. Everything was freaking expensive. Any part that costs $68 on a Japanese car, it was $400 on that POS. That car wasn’t very good at anything.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

The dealer had checked the chain at 75k. And it’s not just the chain failure. Everything was freaking expensive. Any part that costs $68 on a Japanese car, it was $400 on that POS. That car wasn’t very good at anything.

Sure it was, it took a boat load of cash from you, and pissed you off apparently.

[destroya 374]

I went to a Mercedes dealership and drove a certified pre-owned 2017 E 300 last week.  The salesman was a straightforward guy, but he advised me not to get a used MB that wasn't a CPO, saying that MB dealerships are buying all the cars they can CPO leaving the ones that don't meet the CPO standards for all the other used car dealerships.  Is this typical car salesman bullshit or not?

Also, thoughts on the new E 300s 4 cylinder engine.  Most cars in that class have a V6.

[52-80 19147]

22 minutes ago, destroya said:

Is this typical car salesman bullshit or not?

 

Is he a car salesman?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

39 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Is he a car salesman?

This statement cannot be liked enough.

[HiggyBaby 2529]

On our third MB since 2014. We tend to purchase off lease vehicles, so take my opinions for what it’s worth.

2012 C250: our first. Bought at 17k, sold at 70k. Ms. Higgbaby had a serous commute the first couple years. Car was completely trouble free up until around 65k miles. Starting throwing a random check engine light. Long story short, bad transmission valve body. Cost to fix; $2500. Fixed it, sold it a few months later.

2014 ML350 4Matic: purchased at 27k, sold at 60k. Rear brakes completely worn at 30k. Had to replace pads and rotors. $850. Otherwise trouble free. Towards the time we traded it in, the driver side strut started creaking in cold weather but functioned fine.

New vehicle is a 2018 GLS450. 17k miles. Just got it a couple months ago. Honestly, just based on the air suspension and other knick knacks, we will buy an extended warranty if we choose to keep if past factory warranty.

So generally speaking, no real horror stories to speak of. Our previous GM vehicles were generally less reliable.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

1 hour ago, destroya said:

I went to a Mercedes dealership and drove a certified pre-owned 2017 E 300 last week.  The salesman was a straightforward guy, but he advised me not to get a used MB that wasn't a CPO, saying that MB dealerships are buying all the cars they can CPO leaving the ones that don't meet the CPO standards for all the other used car dealerships.  Is this typical car salesman bullshit or not?

Also, thoughts on the new E 300s 4 cylinder engine.  Most cars in that class have a V6.

The standards for CPO from anyone are not hard to meet.  The value in CPO is the extension of the warranty.  I don't think any CPO car is any more or less likely to have problems than a non-CPO of similar mileage and without wrecks.

I would be somewhat wary of a low-mileage car at a dealership that would seem to qualify to be CPO but isn't.  Meaning a Benz at a Benz dealership, etc.  I'd ask em point blank why isn't it and what would it cost to get the CPO warranty.

[destroya 374]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Is he a car salesman?

Facts are facts...

[destroya 374]

56 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The standards for CPO from anyone are not hard to meet.  The value in CPO is the extension of the warranty.  I don't think any CPO car is any more or less likely to have problems than a non-CPO of similar mileage and without wrecks.

I would be somewhat wary of a low-mileage car at a dealership that would seem to qualify to be CPO but isn't.  Meaning a Benz at a Benz dealership, etc.  I'd ask em point blank why isn't it and what would it cost to get the CPO warranty.

That’s my thinking regarding the warranty. The CPO gets you one extra year unlimited mileage warranty, on top of the factory 5 yr 50k mile, and you can buy an extra two years of unlimited mileage for around 2500. For a 17 or 18 model year that’s 5 or 6 years of warranty.  

Edited December 19, 2019 by destroya

[Chewbacca 7767]

My 2016 S6 has been very reliable.  Had one recall but otherwise I just put in oil, gas, and lots of tires.  Sitting right at 50k miles now.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

56 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

My 2016 S6 has been very reliable.  Had one recall but otherwise I just put in oil, gas, and lots of tires.  Sitting right at 50k miles now.

Yeah I thought you had had a good experience.  Sample size of more than one, though?

[Chewbacca 7767]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah I thought you had had a good experience.  Sample size of more than one, though?

A neighbor of mine just got rid of a 2013 A6 with the 3.0 engine.  It was rock solid as well.  I think he had almost 150k on it when he sold it.  Was only ever in the shop because people kept hitting him in parking lots.  Audi has come a long way in terms of reliability.  I would not hesitate to buy another.

[G650 14243]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

My 2016 S6 has been very reliable.  Had one recall but otherwise I just put in oil, gas, and lots of tires.  Sitting right at 50k miles now.

Yeah, today is new tire day. Yay I guess..

[kangsta 50]

My 92 BMW 318iC still runs like a top and drives great at 113k miles. Would recommend them. 

[Buzzrock 14903]

A neighbor of mine just got rid of a 2013 A6 with the 3.0 engine.  It was rock solid as well.  I think he had almost 150k on it when he sold it.  Was only ever in the shop because people kept hitting him in parking lots.  Audi has come a long way in terms of reliability.  I would not hesitate to buy another.

When I was researching my A6 I read that Audi really turned quality around about 2012, so I think they are a lot less scary to own out of warranty than they used to be. I’ve had mine five years and still notice how much I enjoy it on a nearly daily basis.

I may have blown the B&O subwoofer though. Either that or something vibrated loose. I’ve got a buzz when the bass kicks in.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

When I was researching my A6 I read that Audi really turned quality around about 2012, so I think they are a lot less scary to own out of warranty than they used to be. I’ve had mine five years and still notice how much I enjoy it on a nearly daily basis.

I may have blown the B&O subwoofer though. Either that or something vibrated loose. I’ve got a buzz when the bass kicks in.

 

I hate rattles, buzzes, or any sound a cart isn't supposed to make.  It drives me crazy surly.

[Handcruser 2805]

I had an old BMW...a "E34" model.  It was, without a doubt, the finest car that I've ever owned, and a better car than any of my friends and family ever owned.  Fucking bulletproof. 

I now own one of the less-expensive MB's, and, although I like it very much, the CPO warranty came in very handy (new transmission, plus a few nuisance items).
My experience with American cars has been very good...with Jap cars not so good. 
Also, I have a tenant with a fairly-new Audi, and I really don't talk to him about it much, but I notice he's often got a loaner in his parking space. 

E34 and E39 were bulletproof. Just great cars. Wouldn’t hesitate to buy one at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Chewbacca 7767]

When I was researching my A6 I read that Audi really turned quality around about 2012, so I think they are a lot less scary to own out of warranty than they used to be. I’ve had mine five years and still notice how much I enjoy it on a nearly daily basis.

I may have blown the B&O subwoofer though. Either that or something vibrated loose. I’ve got a buzz when the bass kicks in.

I often think about selling my car for something like a 911, but every time i drive it, i still love it. Whenever i don't love it, I'll sell it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Orange&White 5522]

I’m looking at a 2024 A5 45 Sportback.
Anyone have a newer model A4 or A5 that they have opinions on?

Thanks

[RPM 26317]

Everyone should buy a German car every 20 years or so just to remind you.

[Orange&White 5522]

Well I guess I’ll find out. I take delivery on Friday.

A5 45 Sportback. Premium Plus. Blackout package. Convenience package. Air conditioned seats. Black paint, dark brown interior. $3k off msrp and includes 4 yr/50k mile warranty and 4 years of maintenance. It will be on the market at 3 years and 360 days.

[statsman 5451]

I’ve had a couple of Audis. They were fantastic cars until they hit 100k miles, at which point the necessary maintenance and required repairs got really expensive. Then we got an X5. At 100k miles, it needed a couple of repairs (can’t remember what) that would run $7k, and we traded it in on a RX350. 
 
Lexus (Toyota) builds a good car, but they’re not perfect. There is a small leak from the timing belt cover. There is a silicon seal bead that gaps. The repair requires the engine to be pulled, at a cost of $5,700. I googled, and this is really common. 
 
I asked the Lexus service person, “So, I get that you have to pull the engine. After that, what does the repair involve?” (I was hoping to hear that there was a redesigned part that would hold the seal). 
 
“We reapply the silicon seal and put it back together”. 
 
“Really? What keeps it from breaking again?”

”The repair is warrantied for 12 months”. 
 
So, I passed. I’m taking the car to an independent Toyota repair shop and see if they’ll just apply a bunch of sealant in accessible area without pulling the engine). 

[RPM 26317]

I had a '74 100LS. Great car with lots of zip. First front wheel drive car I ever saw. Also the first front wheel drive car any mechanic not working at Ryan Porsche had seen. A cv joint was over $600 in 1980's money. Then water pump, then fuel injection pump, then traded.

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

Every time I read this thread I am reminded of the importance of staying away from dealerships for non-warranty work.  Those dealership all serve the most expensive "free" cups of coffee that you'll ever drink.

[52-80 19147]

On 3/13/2024 at 1:45 AM, Orange&White said:

 

choice seat color

[Dbeasy 15042]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:52 PM, statsman said:

I’ve had a couple of Audis. They were fantastic cars until they hit 100k miles, at which point the necessary maintenance and required repairs got really expensive. Then we got an X5. At 100k miles, it needed a couple of repairs (can’t remember what) that would run $7k, and we traded it in on a RX350. 
 
Lexus (Toyota) builds a good car, but they’re not perfect. There is a small leak from the timing belt cover. There is a silicon seal bead that gaps. The repair requires the engine to be pulled, at a cost of $5,700. I googled, and this is really common. 
 
I asked the Lexus service person, “So, I get that you have to pull the engine. After that, what does the repair involve?” (I was hoping to hear that there was a redesigned part that would hold the seal). 
 
“We reapply the silicon seal and put it back together”. 
 
“Really? What keeps it from breaking again?”

”The repair is warrantied for 12 months”. 
 
So, I passed. I’m taking the car to an independent Toyota repair shop and see if they’ll just apply a bunch of sealant in accessible area without pulling the engine). 

This is pretty unusual. I know some folks don’t like Consumer Reports but it’s still one of the best resources out there for measuring car reliability.

I’ve been an owner of Toyota and Lexus vehicles for over 40 years. We’ve owned 8 Toyota or Lexus vehicles, and a few other brands along the way. Without question, the Toyotas and Lexuses were of substantially higher quality for a long period. We try to hold cars for 8-10 years. Some of the non-Toyotas were real crap.

There was about a 7 year period a few years ago where Toyota quality dipped, and there were problems with some vehicles. In the last few years the Toyota leader reemphasized quality and they’ve improved again. 

But the most important factor for us was that we had several Toyota/Lexus vehicles that went 8-10 years without requiring a single repair. It was amazing. Others required a specific repair that was a common issue for that model/year, but always affordable. There were two repairs required (across all those vehicles) out of warranty that were expensive and every one ended up getting covered by Toyota because they said that wasn’t right for the owner to pay.

My brother has been a mechanic for 40 years and said there is no question whatsoever that Lexus’ were the best quality of any brand. Interestingly Consumer Reports doesn’t value the brand as highly as in the past. I think they have a few models these days that are of slightly lower quality, pulling down the overall quality rating  

You will get several recalls typically, always paid by Toyota, because they are more likely to do them than the American car companies.    

I am an unabashed Lexus fan.  The only thing I didn’t like is that some models had weak designs but the stuff coming out right now is great  

 

 

 

[Hard Times 302]

BMW used to have a lot of issues, now they are #1. Audi and MB not so much. Friend had a MB rattlebox, was PITA. I wouldn't buy one.

BMW Ranked Top Overall Car Brand by Consumer Reports (bimmerpost.com)

[TwiceHorn 31440]

One thing that drives this is that certain manufacturers tend to be on the leading edge of tech while others plod along rarely slowly changing anything. 

 

[Dbeasy 15042]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

One thing that drives this is that certain manufacturers tend to be on the leading edge of tech while others plod along rarely slowly changing anything. 

 

That’s true. But there is also a fundamental culture difference between (most of) the Japanese car companies and the rest of the world.

Mazda, Honda, Toyota, and Subaru have implemented the world renowned Toyota quality system, and ingrained it into the culture. They are large enough to get the advantage of that quality system.

I worked in one of the largest non-auto maker companies that implemented the Toyota quality system and it really does make a big difference. It was interesting to see a non Japanese person take over Nissan and basically run their quality into the ground. 

[Mr. Drummond 2198]

21 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

That’s true. But there is also a fundamental culture difference between (most of) the Japanese car companies and the rest of the world.

Mazda, Honda, Toyota, and Subaru have implemented the world renowned Toyota quality system, and ingrained it into the culture. They are large enough to get the advantage of that quality system.

I worked in one of the largest non-auto maker companies that implemented the Toyota quality system and it really does make a big difference. It was interesting to see a non Japanese person take over Nissan and basically run their quality into the ground. 

Do you even IATF 16949 bro?

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

On 3/12/2024 at 7:45 PM, Orange&White said:

Well I guess I’ll find out. I take delivery on Friday.

A5 45 Sportback. Premium Plus. Blackout package. Convenience package. Air conditioned seats. Black paint, dark brown interior. $3k off msrp and includes 4 yr/50k mile warranty and 4 years of maintenance. It will be on the market at 3 years and 360 days.

That thing's going to be brutal come July - September.

[Orange&White 5522]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

That thing's going to be brutal come July - September.

Meh...it's got dark tint and air conditioned seats

[LebongJames 1791]

I love our X5 and have had no issues. Wife does not drive it much but overall it’s great. Only thing that’s a somewhat pain in the ass is the giant tires. We bought the 22s but only two manufacturers make the width, Continental and Pirelli. First set of tires made it 28k miles and cost $2200 for a new set.

 

I have had more issues with F150.

 

[EastHorn 281]

I'll probably jinx myself with this, but I have had no problems with a BMW.  I figure these days there is a slim chance of anything catastrophic first 3- 5 years while under manufacturer warranty.  After that it is all about preventative maintenance.  It may also help that I don't drive that much in a year (6k is what I calculated).