Cowboy Boots

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Ankle socks for everything but dress shoes. After a couple days you won't notice. Much cooler in the summer heat as well. I have found, at least for me, that I need something to cover the ankles because my ankle bones always seem to be lower than what every pair of boots I've had was designed for. So the seam between the vamp and upper rubs ne pretty badly until they are good and broken in. 

[NoName 16351]

16 hours ago, MillerEP said:

Slightly related, but any good recommendations on a good boot sock? I’ve been wearing my old thorlos from my Marine days but they’re getting up in wear, too thin, and are made with a different boot and purpose in mind.

 

Still work fine, but if I need to replace them I might as well reshop around.

 

they have some newer, less thick ones that are pretty decent - but consider the height of your boot and the length of the sock to make sure they don't stop liek 3" below the top of your boot's shaft

[thrillhammer 683]

13 hours ago, kurioster said:

After following this thread for a bit, I decided on the Wyatt in Chocolate. I am not disappoint.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

great-looking boots

[Art Vandelay 1712]

13 hours ago, kurioster said:

After following this thread for a bit, I decided on the Wyatt in Chocolate. I am not disappoint.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

I have those same boots. Great choice. I love mine!

[chitwood 155]

22 hours ago, MillerEP said:

Slightly related, but any good recommendations on a good boot sock? I’ve been wearing my old thorlos from my Marine days but they’re getting up in wear, too thin, and are made with a different boot and purpose in mind.

 

Still work fine, but if I need to replace them I might as well reshop around.

 

Been using these for a few years with zero issues

https://www.amazon.com/Wrangler-Mens-Western-Boot-Socks-x/dp/B00MUKK2HY

 

[PilotsError 2286]

For those of us who aren't in the boot world, can someone explain the whole "round toed vs square toed" battle and why each side refuses to wear the other?  Is one just not acceptable?

[Coyote 269]

I like and wear both styles as I think they both look/feel good. Those that care one way or another likely sit to pee.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Coyote

[Llano Estacado 1257]

[Art Vandelay 1712]

1 hour ago, PilotsError said:

For those of us who aren't in the boot world, can someone explain the whole "round toed vs square toed" battle and why each side refuses to wear the other?  Is one just not acceptable?

I've always been a regular/round toe guy but I recently opened my mind to squared toes because of a great deal on some Anderson Beans I came across online that just happened to be in my size (AB's are almost exclusively square toe but are pretty high quality, handmade in Texas boots).

I've never had a pair of AB's but tried some on the other day that were super comfortable. So I went ahead and ordered the pair I found online.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Art Vandelay

[Masshole Horn 769]

I like and wear both styles as I think they both look/feel good. Those that care one way or another likely sit to pee.

This is a good answer. I prefer the look of round toes, and don’t have anything against square toes. Still, some of the extra wide toe boots look like Kevin Malone wearing tissue boxes.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

59 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I've always been a regular/round toe guy but I recently opened my mind to squared toes because of a great deal on some Anderson Beans I came across online that just happened to be in my size (AB's are almost exclusively square toe but are pretty high quality, handmade in Texas boots).

I've never had a pair of AB's but tried some on the other day that were super comfortable. So I went ahead and ordered the pair I found online.

Anderson Beans are awesome. Much better than any pair of Luccheses at a similar price point. I do wish they made some that weren't square toed, though.

[Art Vandelay 1712]

34 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Anderson Beans are awesome. Much better than any pair of Luccheses at a similar price point. I do wish they made some that weren't square toed, though.

Apparently they will make custom round toed boots. But yeah, agreed, I wish they had some in their stock line. They are really well made.

[NoName 16351]

3 hours ago, PilotsError said:

For those of us who aren't in the boot world, can someone explain the whole "round toed vs square toed" battle and why each side refuses to wear the other?  Is one just not acceptable?

toe cut examples are here: https://www.lucchese.com/fitguide

i think that "older" guys won't wear squared because it is new/different. "younger" guys don't like round because it looks old.

initially, i went with a pretty hard squared off toe (W) but since then have moved much more towards a more actually rounded (C or medium) or rounded square (7 toe) in Lucchese's terms.

my great great grandfather wore a C toe basically every day his entire life for example

 

[TXs 226]

Round toe looks better and more pleasing to me. Dont have anything against square toes. I know people with wide feet say they fit much better. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

7 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Anderson Beans are awesome. Much better than any pair of Luccheses at a similar price point. I do wish they made some that weren't square toed, though.

 

7 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

Apparently they will make custom round toed boots. But yeah, agreed, I wish they had some in their stock line. They are really well made.

Rios of Mercedes is the sister/parent company.  Probably same factory, but Rios has dressier stock models, and more round toes.

On the round/square debate, for most of the 20th century, a round toe (to include sharp snip toes) was conventional and thus traditional.  Square toes, particularly the wide squares, are a product mostly of the 21st century.  They do have "historical" roots in "cavalry type" boots from the 19th century. 

Now it's just a preference thing.  I can kind of see the comfort thing, but a properly fitted boot will be comfortable with a roach-killer X toe.

Edited April 19, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

I didn't want to start another thread for boot cut jeans. Could some please recommend some light blue and tan boot cut jeans? Straight, regular fit without goofy s*** on the back pockets. 

I love Tecovas jeans, but they only sell a blue and dark blue jean. I have a lot of 13MWZ Wranglers, but they aren't very comfortable. I do like the look though. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Levi's 517.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Probably ought to try some of the newfangled Cowboy Cuts.  Premium performance and stretch.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Wrangler makes a Slim Straight I picked up at Academy that I like.
Aside from that, Levi’s 505.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

I had a pair of Wrangler Rugged Wear Classic Fit from Academy that fit fairly similar to Cowboy Cut, but had the "twill" denim that seems to be a little more pliable.  Yet they didn't wear out in a year like Levis and cost like 20 bucks.  I hardly ever wear jeans anymore or I'd get more.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Levi's can be hit or miss as far as quality of denim. There are plenty that have good denim, but there are more that have cheaper thinner denim. The fit can also vary between different colors and finishes for the same style. They are made in so many different countries that you really need to be able to try them on to determine if they fit right. For me, Wranglers just fit terrible. Levi's fit much better. You just have to make sure you are getting the ones with decent denim and get them from somewhere like JC Penneys or Academy that has them for decent prices.

Ariat makes pretty budget boots, but their jeans can be quite good. A looser fit than some of the others, but comfortable. Those Tecovas jeans are just straight up city slicker jeans.   

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20392]

Anybody else hear that Tecovas was sold to a larger company? 

[texas08 1599]

....

[NoName 16351]

8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Anybody else hear that Tecovas was sold to a larger company? 

not sure, i know Paul (one of the founders) used to post over at Shaggy but not sure if he migrated over or not?

Edited April 22, 2019 by NoName

[BearSchlong 8083]

Here to endorse Ariat jeans. A little more expensive than Levi's but I think they're worth it.

 

 

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:15 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Levi's can be hit or miss as far as quality of denim. There are plenty that have good denim, but there are more that have cheaper thinner denim. The fit can also vary between different colors and finishes for the same style. They are made in so many different countries that you really need to be able to try them on to determine if they fit right. For me, Wranglers just fit terrible. Levi's fit much better. You just have to make sure you are getting the ones with decent denim and get them from somewhere like JC Penneys or Academy that has them for decent prices.

Ariat makes pretty budget boots, but their jeans can be quite good. A looser fit than some of the others, but comfortable. Those Tecovas jeans are just straight up city slicker jeans.   

Guilty. 

[Kennythetiger 9376]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:15 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Levi's can be hit or miss as far as quality of denim. There are plenty that have good denim, but there are more that have cheaper thinner denim. The fit can also vary between different colors and finishes for the same style. They are made in so many different countries that you really need to be able to try them on to determine if they fit right. For me, Wranglers just fit terrible. Levi's fit much better. You just have to make sure you are getting the ones with decent denim and get them from somewhere like JC Penneys or Academy that has them for decent prices.

Ariat makes pretty budget boots, but their jeans can be quite good. A looser fit than some of the others, but comfortable. Those Tecovas jeans are just straight up city slicker jeans.   

Everything that this gentleman said about Levis.  The right pair is the most comfortable jean that I can find, but a poor pair will wear holes in the crotch in no time at all.  I have started buying Arizona jeans from JC Penney.  Much, much more comfortable than the ball-pinching Wranglers that I used to wear, and sturdier material than Levis in case I have unexpected outside work come up.  

[TwiceHorn 31440]

3 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Everything that this gentleman said about Levis.  The right pair is the most comfortable jean that I can find, but a poor pair will wear holes in the crotch in no time at all.  I have started buying Arizona jeans from JC Penney.  Much, much more comfortable than the ball-pinching Wranglers that I used to wear, and sturdier material than Levis in case I have unexpected outside work come up.  

I mean Levis from 30 years ago didn't hold a candle to cowboy cuts for durability.  It's worse now.  I think part of the discomfort with cowboy cuts (the ball pinching) is that the material is so tough and not stretchy at all.  The "twill" denim goes a long way to helping that, and, I havent tried them in jeans, but some of the stretch fabrics are pretty miraculous.

[Art Vandelay 1712]

PSA: Cuero boots are 40% off right now. $138 for the Eastwood and $132 for the Austin (roper).

If you have any interest at all, it's almost a no-brainer at those prices. I got my Eastwoods on sale for $150 and thought it was a steal. I might buy another pair if I hadn't just bought some Anderson Beans. Hell, I might do it anyway.

[Godzillatron 292]

PSA: Cuero boots are 40% off right now. $138 for the Eastwood and $132 for the Austin (roper).
If you have any interest at all, it's almost a no-brainer at those prices. I got my Eastwoods on sale for $150 and thought it was a steal. I might buy another pair if I hadn't just bought some Anderson Beans. Hell, I might do it anyway.

Sizes pretty limited. Amazing deal if your size in stock.

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

I’ll probably get flamed by the Wranglers/Levi’s crowd, but what are the thread’s thoughts on 7 for all Mankind jeans and boots? The straight cut appears to be wide enough in the leg for a western style boot. 

Yes, I’m a city slicker. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

No problem as long as the denim is a decent weight, they aren't stretchy, they are two to four inches longer than the Jean's you wear with tennis shoes, and they fit over the shaft of the boots. If they don't fit far enough down on the vamp you can always make a cut about an inch long along the inside seam to make them fit lower.

[NoName 16351]

11 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

PSA: Cuero boots are 40% off right now. $138 for the Eastwood and $132 for the Austin (roper).

If you have any interest at all, it's almost a no-brainer at those prices. I got my Eastwoods on sale for $150 and thought it was a steal. I might buy another pair if I hadn't just bought some Anderson Beans. Hell, I might do it anyway.

Thanks for the heads up, just picked up a pair of Eastwoods.

They aren't really even trying to hide who is behind it btw, from their order confirmation page:

Quote

 

By ordering products, you have authorized RTIC Web Services LLC to charge your credit card for an amount equal to the purchase price and any applicable sales tax.

Orders will be fulfilled based on the order in which they are received.

You may cancel your order any time for any reason prior to shipment and receive a full refund. Your refund will be processed within 3 business days of your request but may take an additional 1 - 5 days to show up on your credit card statement. To cancel an order you can contact us via email at help@cuerocoolers.com or call us toll free at 1-855-527-6993.

If you don’t receive the confirmation within 15 minutes of your order submission, please check your junk email and spam blocker. Once the order ships, you will receive an email notification that your order has shipped along with your tracking information.

If you need to make any changes to this order, please Contact Us as soon as possible.

 

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

I kind of suspect that the internal quality of these direct retailers is not all that great, but I'm not willing to spend the money just to cut a pair of brand new boots open. I'd buy some of those Cueros at that price, but I just got a new pair of Beans. I also ordered a pair of lasts, so I'll get to try my hand at making my own pair of boots soon enough.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

If anybody here is interested, I have a couple pairs of boots that are worn out enough I could deconstruct and document how they were made for the most part. I have a pair of AB Horsepower boots (their made in Mexico line) and a pair of regular AB boots that are both pretty much beyond their life expectancy. I have been toying with the idea of filling the regular AB boots with molten polyethylene to make a last out of them because they fit me so well, but I've already ordered a pair of lasts to test the waters of boot and shoe making with, so it would probably do more good to just tear them apart and document the process.

[Art Vandelay 1712]

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If anybody here is interested, I have a couple pairs of boots that are worn out enough I could deconstruct and document how they were made for the most part. I have a pair of AB Horsepower boots (their made in Mexico line) and a pair of regular AB boots that are both pretty much beyond their life expectancy. I have been toying with the idea of filling the regular AB boots with molten polyethylene to make a last out of them because they fit me so well, but I've already ordered a pair of lasts to test the waters of boot and shoe making with, so it would probably do more good to just tear them apart and document the process.

Yeah, I would find that really interesting. If you don't mind documenting it here I think that would be pretty cool.

[Llano Estacado 1257]

I also ordered a pair of lasts, so I'll get to try my hand at making my own pair of boots soon enough.

That’s so badass. I’m jealous.

How does that work? Do you order them true to your size (US size and width)? Order custom? You shape them custom after comparing to your own foot?

You can build any shape toe box from the same last, correct?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

I ordered them from Brooklyn Shoe Supply just yesterday, so it will take a week or so to get here. From what I have read, last size does not always correspond to shoe size. But shoe size is pretty subjective anyways. So, for any given last, you can modify it by cutting away material (lasts are typically made from polyethylene or wood) or adding material to it. To add material to it you basically glue leather down and then shape it with a rasp. Obviously it is much easier to start with a last that is sized perfectly to your foot, but that isn't always possible, and finding lasts at a decent enough price to experiment with for a hobby leatherworker is pretty tough. So you can modify one within reason, like going up or down a size or two and increasing or decreasing the width, but there is definitely a point where it just isn't worth the hassle.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

41 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

Yeah, I would find that really interesting. If you don't mind documenting it here I think that would be pretty cool.

Ditto.

[PantsTent 2002]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

They aren't really even trying to hide who is behind it btw, from their order confirmation page:

 

Well that and the home page with a guy with his boots up on an RTIC cooler which has 2 other RTIC products on top of said cooler.

 

[NoName 16351]

11 minutes ago, PantsTent said:

Well that and the home page with a guy with his boots up on an RTIC cooler which has 2 other RTIC products on top of said cooler.

 

i probably should have looked closer at the home page lol

[staley 5]

I'm a huge Tecovas fan, however, I just had to order a pair of the Cueros at this price. The Austin in cherry should be here in 3-4 days. I'll update. 

[4th&Five 41516]

I got the same ones. No complaints after a few weeks. 

[Art Vandelay 1712]

26 minutes ago, staley said:

I'm a huge Tecovas fan, however, I just had to order a pair of the Cueros at this price. The Austin in cherry should be here in 3-4 days. I'll update. 

Yeah I caved and ordered the Austin in espresso (chocolate). My justification is I only have one pair of ropers in my boot collection, and they're Justins that are probably around 20 years old (I honestly can't even remember buying them).

[Masshole Horn 769]

Austin in Cherry as well at 40% off. Don’t have ropers nor anything in that color.

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

Well if this doesn't settle the Tecovas v Cuero debate, nothing will : 

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Ok, so here is an old pair of Anderson Bean Horsepower (ABH henceforth) boots I dug out of the back of my closet. Probably ten years old or so. ABH is Anderson Bean's budget hecho en Mexico line. Typically these go for somewhere in the $250 range at your local Cavender's, although this model either isn't made anymore or they don't carry it on their website.

Obviously these guys have seen some pretty serious use. They are pretty much worn completely out, but I guess one could argue that with a rebuilding they could still have some life left. AB does rebuild their boots for something like $150, but it isn't clear on their website whether or not they offer that for the ABH line.

I obviously haven't worn these guys in a while, so let's tear these puppies apart and see how they are built.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Prying the heel off...

The heel looks to be pretty standard stacked leather. This stuff was almost as hard as wood, but it is definitely leather. That's a good sign. There are cheaper boots out there that use wood or even plastic for this part. This is the traditional construction technique.

The outsole, pictured from the side facing the boot...

The first picture here is just an overall view of the outsole. The second and third point out the methods used to hold the shank area together since it is not welted like the front half of the boot. Notice that there are brass racks and wooden pegs used each in a different row. The traditional method would be to use lemonwood pegs to secure this. A hole would be punched with an awl and a peg inserted. Because of the diamond shaped tip of the awl, leather would be displaced rather than removed. Combine that with a wooden peg and moisture causes both to swell and create a secure hold. Brass tacks likely displace the leather just as well unless a drill is used to make the hole (as was shown in a making of video on the Tecovas website). However these brass tacks aren't cut for the thickness of the leather. They are longer and were curled up on the tip like they used a cast iron last instead of a traditional wood or plastic one. I suspect the row of wooden pegs was mainly for show.

Edited April 26, 2019 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4975]

Here's what the upper looked like after the outsole was ripped off.

The first pic shows pretty much what it looked like in its raw state. My knife is pointing out a layer of foam that was attached to this area. Because of the way the welt is attached to the boot and the sole is then attached to the welt there is some open space. The traditional method would be to fill this space with leather or cork filler. Leather is more traditional on handmade boots, while cork is common on dress shoes. The construction methods for both are pretty similar for this part, so I would say either is acceptable for quality traditional footwear. I think it's one of those things that is up to the individual bookmaker or cordwainer. Anyhow, they didn't use either in favor of what is likely cheaper and quicker. Remember, these are the economy model of their boots. Also, modern consumers may feel like their boots should be softer out the gate than traditionally constructed boots.

The second and third pictures were taken after the foam layer was pulled off. If the material shown looks sort of like cardboard, that's because it kind of is sort of like cardboard. This would traditionally be a leather insole you are seeing, but these guys have uppers built more like a tennis shoe than a traditional boot. We will see why later. If you pull all the insole material out of your tennis shoes or even cheaper dress shoes you will see this same type of material. I know I have a pair of Ralph Lauren driving mocs that are made with it. It is simply cheaper than leather and allows for cheaper construction techniques.

Now let's look at the third picture.  Notice that the upper isn't even sewn to the cardboardish insole. It is nailed together with brass tacks. More detail on this later.

Before I move on, I will note that even though the outsoles were worn pretty much to the point of ruining the boots I still had a pretty tough time pulling them off. Yeah all the stitches had worn through on the bottom, but there was a lot of resistance trying to pry the outsoles off. The double row of stitching obviously helps there.

 

So that's all I have for tonight. I have a lot more pictures to come with associated commentary, so stay tuned and hopefully everybody learns a little bit about proper traditional boot construction. I will say that not all boots need to meet the standards of traditional construction. This pair served me well for quite a while. If you don't intend to make a pair of boots last a lifetime there really isn't a need to worry about these details so much. Especially if you buy a pair of boots and wear them out and then replace them. But if you want something to last a lifetime and withstand being rebuilt multiple times this may matter.

[NoName 16351]

9 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Well if this doesn't settle the Tecovas v Cuero debate, nothing will : 

 

it is not *THAT* Aaron Watson, just to be clear 

it is a pretty solid review though. worth a watch...

-

edit: He made a shorter video (7 min) here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njbAcDEWFn8

"it's sketchy that they are sort of copying the look but they are different boots"

Isn't that RTIC's entire business plan? lol

Edited April 26, 2019 by NoName