Former B12 Teams ~ Better Off?

[Cairn Horn88 8,262]

For all those teams who chose to leave the Big 12, has it really gotten any better?

quote:

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Breakups are bad enough, but never so devastating as when it turns out your ex can get along just fine without you.  And if your new life is actually harder, well, maybe it’s time to rethink your position.  Given the circumstances and the season, then, let me be the first to extend an olive branch as well as an invitation:
Come on back, Texas A&M.
You, too, Nebraska.
We’ve got room for Missouri. We’ll even take back Colorado. And if I can’t get an amen on that, how about Arkansas?

In case you’re having a hard time keeping up, the schools listed above were once members of either the Big 12 or the old Southwest Conference. All left of their own volition. Most packed up because of grudges with Texas or felt the ground shifting under their feet. Maybe both. They were looking for stability and, God bless ’em, they found it.  But if all are better off financially — well, except for Colorado, mired in the Pac-12 muck — was it worth the price?   Because for the most part, they don’t win at football as much as they used to. And isn’t that the real bottom line in sports?

Consider the number of winning seasons each has experienced before and after their exits from the Big 12. Before it bolted for the Big Ten, Nebraska had 12 winning records in 15 Big 12 seasons. Since then? Only five in the last nine.

Missouri had 10 winning seasons in 16 years as a Big 12 member. Since then, it’s been four of eight in the SEC.

Colorado’s even worse off: one winning season in nine in the Pac-12 after six in 15 in the Big 12.

Arkansas bolted the SWC for the SEC 28 years ago because Frank Broyles was told the Razorbacks wouldn’t be included in any realignment that included Texas or A&M. The move saved the Hogs’ bacon. But as Broyles once told me, it’s never been the same since. Nearly three decades after joining the SEC, Arkansas has yet to develop a feud as blood-boiling as Texas. Of course, that’s the thing about leaving old rivalries. Anyone who was a senior at Arkansas when the Razorbacks left the SWC is still young enough to remember what it was like.

And it doesn’t help matters when you’re not as good at football as you were then. Arkansas competed for SWC titles. Even won it all in ’64. Since leaving the league of their youth, the Razorbacks have posted winning seasons half the time and only fleetingly competed for the top of the SEC West.

Which brings us to A&M. The Aggies are the only school among the expatriates with a better record in the SEC than the Big 12. They’ve produced a winning season every year as opposed to 10 in 16 Big 12 seasons.

But exactly how competitive have the Aggies been in the SEC West? This season’s fourth-place finish is the average. Only twice have they finished better. Came in third in Jimbo Fisher’s first season and second in 2012, A&M’s SEC debut.

You remember Johnny Manziel taking college football by the collar and shaking it silly. His win over Alabama remains one of A&M’s signature athletic moments.

If the Aggies had still been members of the Big 12 in 2012, they wouldn’t have had the chance to make history in Tuscaloosa. They also wouldn’t have had to play Florida in Johnny Football’s debut. Let me go out on a limb here. Considering that Manziel ran circles around Oklahoma in the 2013 Cotton Bowl, I’d say odds are good the Aggies would have gone undefeated in the Big 12 that season. And a 12-0 A&M — with a Heisman-apparent quarterback — would have at least been in the conversation for the BCS title game.

As it was, the 10-2 Aggies finished ninth in the 2012 regular-season BCS rankings, four spots back of 11-1 Kansas State.  Maybe it doesn’t bother Aggies that Johnny Football didn’t get an opportunity to play for everything. Maybe Jimbo can still deliver on the $60 million left in his deal. If nothing else, it might allow him to outlast Nick Saban. Even if he does, though, Dabo Swinney will be the next coach up at Alabama. And if not Dabo, then surely Kirby Smart.

The problem in the SEC is that it’s not just Alabama. Ed Orgeron may be only getting started at LSU. Gus Malzahn is always spoiling for something at Auburn.  What if Lane Kiffin finally grows up in Oxford?

Meanwhile, over here in the Big 12, they have some good teams. Coaches, too. If Jerry Jones doesn’t cherry-pick one, that is. Bob Bowlsby, the commissioner, says, top to bottom, this is the best the Big 12 has been in his tenure. Maybe so. Winning the conference title certainly got Oklahoma an invitation to the tournament, which is all the recommendation anyone needs.

Just the same, it seems safe to say it’s probably easier to win in this league than in the SEC or Big Ten. At least that’s what the records of the expats suggest.

So what do you say? Come back home! No one’s saying it wouldn’t be tough. First you’d have to swallow your pride, then get out of those pesky grant-of-rights deals.

The good news is, the Big Ten’s TV contract is up in 2023. The Pac-12’s expires in ’24. But, unless the lawyers get going, the SEC’s TV contract runs through 2034. That’s a long time beating your head against a wall.

Anyway, think about it. The Big 12 is far more stable these days. Practically boring. No, it doesn’t pay as much as the Big Ten or SEC, but it might be more fun. Oh, and DeLoss Dodds has retired, if that makes any difference.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/2019/12/10/for-all-those-teams-that-chose-to-leave-the-big-12-has-it-really-gotten-any-better/

 

[Victor Lazlo 1,776]

[Pato del Muerto 52,489]

I had to click the link to see the author of that shallow piece of shit. It’s Kevin Sherrington. Now nobody else needs to click. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[Iceman 2,701]

Aggy is better off, butmore importantly, we’re WAY the fuck better off.

[MrPhlegm 3,413]

fuck off kevin you fucking mindless poltroon.

no backsies.

[Radical Larry 28,587]

[HtownHorn 14,677]

Since they left the 4 teams are a combined 229-203, while they were 245-188 during the same time spans to end their Big 12 runs. Only aggy has improved their record, and that's mainly due to their shitty scheduling and having South Carolina as their permanent cross over game.

[Horn Dogg 3,895]

I don’t believe any team has improved their situation by leaving the big 12 or in Arky’s case the SWC.  But fuck them, they ran off and can deal with it.

[Sejjr 3,246]

Funny that Kevin Shithead mentions Kirby Smart as a successor possibility to Saban. Alabama would never be that fucking stupid. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,489]

2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Since they left the 4 teams are a combined 229-203, while they were 245-188 during the same time spans to end their Big 12 runs. Only aggy has improved their record, and that's mainly due to their shitty scheduling and having South Carolina as their permanent cross over game.

What’s their combined and individual conference record?  Since we are talking about conferences and not how often you can get lamar on your schedule. 

[Whatever 700]

I didn't have a problem with Colorado or Mizzou but I never want to be associated with aggy or corn aggy again.

[Houtexjhawk 7]

The four schools are finding that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side, but none are coming back.  The move has probably worked out best for A&M.  Maybe there is a better cultural fit with Colorado, but they moved to a conference that is worse off financially and that is pretty much ignored by most of the rest of the country.  Colorado football got more national exposure in the Big 12.   NU and MU are now making a lot more money, but are pretty irrelevant within their conference.   Nebraska has become a mid tier program in the Big 10.  MU is a disaster, but has money now to pay for its bad coaching decisions.   Missouri is in a division with schools it has nothing in common with.  Do you thing South Carolina or Florida cares about MU?   At least in the Big 10, NU can and probably has developed rivalries with Iowa and Wisconsin. 
 

I do like a ten team conference better than a 14 team conference.   I bet there some teams in the SEC West that hasn’t played a football game in Columbia yet. 

['stache 21,805]

If Arky had stayed in the SWC would they not have made the Big 12 over baylor? Wouldn’t Texas and the Oklahoma schools want them, if nothing else, for geographical reasons?

[Mossyhorn 143]

Puke on all of ‘em, glad they left. Especially anm. 

[Loco 3,752]

6 hours ago, Sejjr said:

 Alabama would never be that fucking stupid. 

Look at what you just wrote...  now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

[Shaggy3.0 1,695]

Glad they’re all gone. Don’t miss them one bit.

[C-Man 27,218]

7 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I had to click the link to see the aurhor of that shallow piece of shit. It’s Kevin Sherrington. Now nobody else needs to click. 

Did the exact same thing. Read it, saw DMN and knew immediately that had to be a Sherrington piece. Waste of time.

[bejezuz 329]

37 minutes ago, 'stache said:

If Arky had stayed in the SWC would they not have made the Big 12 over baylor? Wouldn’t Texas and the Oklahoma schools want them, if nothing else, for geographical reasons?

Baylor and Tech alums in the Texas legislature basically strong-armed Texas and Texas A&M into taking Tech and Baylor with them from the SWC into the Big 12.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Big_12_Conference#Texas_politicians

[Zavala 1,384]

This stupid fucking conference will probably bring in Houston and Tulsa or some dumb shit.

At least they are in a league that won't throw their one of their best DL out of the game for hitting a receiver in the shoulder pads too hard. Oh, and maybe call a roughing or targeting on our QB once in a while.

 

 

The conference is a joke, they are better off in the Pac12 and the SEC, even if they aren't having much success. 

 

 

[Randolph Duke 4,034]

I continue to be amazed at how so many writers prefer to be lazy and completely ignore the actual facts of why the schools actually left the SWC or Big 12.

"In case you’re having a hard time keeping up, the schools listed above were once members of either the Big 12 or the old Southwest Conference. All left of their own volition. Most packed up because of grudges with Texas or felt the ground shifting under their feet. Maybe both."

If people go back and research  what was going on when the schools actually left, the picture is a bit different and much of the historical record is unearthed. UT Austin wasn't the proximate cause of each of the schools leaving. There are a number of reasons the various schools left. As for Arky....

 

[Pig Bellmont 8,715]

No mention of 9 conference games plus a championship game against a team you already played. Look, it’s easier to have a winning season in the SEC bc you get to play garbage OOC and only 8 conf games while often avoiding cross division opponents.
 

Aggy’s best year they couldn’t even win their division. The truth is they don’t fantasize about playing in the BigXII bc they are too afraid they would have lost to us that year. Now, they get the privilege of failing to live up to expectations against different teams. The article ignores the fact that aggy will never achieve anything of significance and it doesn’t matter what conference they play in 

[DFW Horn 6,123]

Arky and Nebraska would be way better off in the Big 12 Conference.

Fuck aggy. Those idiots somehow think playing the Mississippi teams every year is prestigious.

[Underdog 28,614]

8 hours ago, Sejjr said:

Funny that Kevin Shithead mentions Kirby Smart as a successor possibility to Saban. Alabama would never be that fucking stupid. 

Mike Shula

George O'Leary

Bill Curry

 

[Sandman 3,403]

26 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

 failing to live up to expectations against different teams.

I'm not an aggie hater, but I expect them to be mediocre every year. So no, they haven't failed to live up to expectations IMO.

[Valmy77 13,226]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

If Arky had stayed in the SWC would they not have made the Big 12 over baylor? Wouldn’t Texas and the Oklahoma schools want them, if nothing else, for geographical reasons?

Definitely.  Of course if Arky had not left the SWC I am not sure the Big 12 ever happens.

[bluto 4,919]

Writer even uses aggy logic saying they finished 2nd in Sec W in 2012 when they tied for second with LSU who beat them head to head.

[bullet 1,596]

3 hours ago, Houtexjhawk said:

The four schools are finding that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side, but none are coming back.  The move has probably worked out best for A&M.  Maybe there is a better cultural fit with Colorado, but they moved to a conference that is worse off financially and that is pretty much ignored by most of the rest of the country.  Colorado football got more national exposure in the Big 12.   NU and MU are now making a lot more money, but are pretty irrelevant within their conference.   Nebraska has become a mid tier program in the Big 10.  MU is a disaster, but has money now to pay for its bad coaching decisions.   Missouri is in a division with schools it has nothing in common with.  Do you thing South Carolina or Florida cares about MU?   At least in the Big 10, NU can and probably has developed rivalries with Iowa and Wisconsin. 
 

I do like a ten team conference better than a 14 team conference.   I bet there some teams in the SEC West that hasn’t played a football game in Columbia yet. 

This year was the first time A&M had played at Georgia.

[DFW Horn 6,123]

57 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Mike Shula

George O'Leary

Bill Curry

 

Don't forget Mike Price.

Alabama[edit]

Price may be best known nationally for an off-the-field incident during his brief stint at Alabama. In December 2002, he was hired in principle to replace Dennis Franchione as the head coach of the Crimson Tide. Price was at Alabama during the 2003 spring practice, but in May his contract was rescinded shortly after news reports surfaced of Price being seen at a strip club during a trip to Pensacola, Florida, where Price was playing in a golf tournament, and he also had about $1,000 charged to his hotel room by an unknown woman staying in the room. This development came on the heels of an earlier reprimand for visiting campus-area bars and drinking into the early hours in Tuscaloosa.^[7][8]

[Spankytoes 1,739]

It's a stupid premise. Aggy had one good year in the Big 12 as a result of an upset win over KSU. Texas had several good years but ou was just better. Had ou gone to the SEC and failed, then maybe Sherrington has a story to write. Aggy replaced Texas and ou with Bama and LSU in divisional play. Same results, different setting.

What has Texas done since the Big 12 replaced the 4 teams with WV and TCU? Nothing, nothing at all. Well, a Sugar Bowl trophy.

[Underdog 28,614]

22 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

Don't forget Mike Price.

Alabama[edit]

Price may be best known nationally for an off-the-field incident during his brief stint at Alabama. In December 2002, he was hired in principle to replace Dennis Franchione as the head coach of the Crimson Tide. Price was at Alabama during the 2003 spring practice, but in May his contract was rescinded shortly after news reports surfaced of Price being seen at a strip club during a trip to Pensacola, Florida, where Price was playing in a golf tournament, and he also had about $1,000 charged to his hotel room by an unknown woman staying in the room. This development came on the heels of an earlier reprimand for visiting campus-area bars and drinking into the early hours in Tuscaloosa.^[7][8]

Maybe that’s who I was thinking of instead of O Leary, wasn’t he ND? 

[AUS-97HORN 11,757]

8 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Maybe that’s who I was thinking of instead of O Leary, wasn’t he ND? 

I thought Oleary faked something stupid on his resume and he had to resign 3-4 days after being hired

[Dutch 4,465]

11 hours ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Come on back, Texas A&M.

[JFKFC 4,878]

I'll care about any of the former Big 12 teams the day the win the national championship in football.

 

[Randolph Duke 4,034]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

This year was the first time A&M had played at Georgia.

When Colorado left the Big 12 for the Pac, they had more alumni living in California than in the entire non-Colorado Big 12 footprint. Their alumni were unhappy that the Colorado Big 12 games weren't being televised in California and that they couldn't follow their team on tv during the season.

Demand to be able to watch Colorado games in California is THE reason Colorado left the Big 12 for the Pac. Period. The alumni wanted it and the school gave it to them. Their move to the Pac had NOTHING to do with The University of Texas at Austin.

[UTEX90 589]

As years progress I think aggy will fall to the state of Arkansas in the SEC.  Aggy had a model of what moving to the SEC would look like for them but they were hell bent on "We are in Texas."  "WRTS."   "All the kids in Texas will want to play at aggy because we are now SEC good."  But in reality it changed nothing for them except to improve the footprint of the other schools in the SEC in Texas.  Bama and LSU cherry pick who they want.  Florida and Georgia have improved their Texas recruiting.  Texas and ou still get theirs and aggy gets what aggy have historically gotten in terms of recruits.  Yes, they are getting bumps because Jimbo's turd is still warm but if they don't win it all within the next couple of years, which i think is highly unlikely, if not impossible, they are going to go the way of Arkansas.  Especially if Ole Miss and/or Arkansas become relevant again.   

By the way, Arkansas has been irrelevant in the SEC in 28 years and I think it is largely due to losing a recruiting footprint in Texas. 

I can definitely see a day when Arkansas and aTm could flip in power in the SEC west and Arkansas could be winning 8 games year and atm only winning 4.  This scenario is way more likely than aggy becoming any kind of dominant in the SEC west.

Edited December 11, 2019 by UTEX90

[HornsOverIthaca 2,333]

Bring back Dan Beebe!

[crimsonlonghorn 2,306]

It was already said above, but just repeating that it should be immediately obvious that the reason aggy has a better record since leaving is because they play one less conference game and are encouraged by their league to schedule powderpuffs out of conference. 

They get their ass kicked by Bama and LSU every season, go 0.500 in their other conference games, and then beat up on Prairie View and Tarleton and Nicholls and then go lose a bowl because they don't want to be there while bragging how tough their season has been. 

There's your annual 7-6 or 8-5 right there. 

Advantage: aggy

Edited December 11, 2019 by crimsonlonghorn

[Nueces River Rat 5,538]

25 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

It was already said above, but just repeating that it should be immediately obvious that the reason aggy has a better record since leaving is because they play one less conference game and are encouraged by their league to schedule powderpuffs out of conference. 

They get their ass kicked by Bama and LSU every season, go 0.500 in their other conference games, and then beat up on Prairie View and Tarleton and Nicholls and then go lose a bowl because they don't want to be there while bragging how tough their season has been. 

There's your annual 7-6 or 8-5 right there. 

Advantage: aggy

Plus let's not forget, led by eSECpn  and cSECbs pundits and regional  media writers, they hype up a number of SEC teams in the pre season polls so they are ranked going into the season.  They probably get at least eight teams in the T-25 and another few receiving votes.     So when they play each other and one of them loses, they don't lose poll position until maybe they lose a third conference game and aggy along with the rest of them get to rinse and repeat the phrase the only teams they lost to were ranked.   But like in aggy's case this year, let's totally ignore they didn't win one game in conference against a fellow team with a winning record.   The same pundits and regional media writers noted above will rank their sorry asses next July when the first polls start rolling out.   Them and everyone else in the SEC SEC SEC , except maybe Vandy and Arkansas.   

[Randolph Duke 4,034]

55 minutes ago, UTEX90 said:

As years progress I think aggy will fall to the state of Arkansas in the SEC.  Aggy had a model of what moving to the SEC would look like for them but they were hell bent on "We are in Texas."  "WRTS."   "All the kids in Texas will want to play at aggy because we are now SEC good."  But in reality it changed nothing for them except to improve the footprint of the other schools in the SEC in Texas.  Bama and LSU cherry pick who they want.  Florida and Georgia have improved their Texas recruiting.  Texas and ou still get theirs and aggy gets what aggy have historically gotten in terms of recruits.  Yes, they are getting bumps because Jimbo's turd is still warm but if they don't win it all within the next couple of years, which i think is highly unlikely, if not impossible, they are going to go the way of Arkansas.  Especially if Ole Miss and/or Arkansas become relevant again.   

By the way, Arkansas has been irrelevant in the SEC in 28 years and I think it is largely due to losing a recruiting footprint in Texas. 

I can definitely see a day when Arkansas and aTm could flip in power in the SEC west and Arkansas could be winning 8 games year and atm only winning 4.  This scenario is way more likely than aggy becoming any kind of dominant in the SEC west.

While the aggys unquestionably believe "the only SEC school in Texas" is a winning recruiting claim, the recruits surely aren't moved much by it. aggy still seems to be wrestling with the problems of the unfortunate location of their campus, and the fact their culture is "a bit much" for most out-of-state recruits. They don't seem to have garnered much of an advantage from being the only SEC school in Texas.

Joey Freshwater's emergence in Oxford is a wild card I hadn't expected. aggy's perennial "instant playing time" recruiting attraction is about to be obliterated by a coach that relates to recruits FAR more than redneck Jimbo, Oxford isn't much, but it certainly isn't College Station, and "instant playing time in the SEC West" will be found in spades at Old Miss.

It's going to be interesting. The mere fact there doesn't seem to be a record of any program going from over 20 years without being able to put together two seasons in a row with a winning record in conference play to immediately dominating conference play tells me the dream of "the sleeping giant awakening" isn't going to happen.

 

[DFW Horn 6,123]

2 hours ago, UTEX90 said:

By the way, Arkansas has been irrelevant in the SEC in 28 years and I think it is largely due to losing a recruiting footprint in Texas. 

I'm sure Nebraska misses having a recruiting foot in Texas, but they claim to recruit nationally.

I know Mizzou does.

[Thiefery 4,995]

23 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm sure Nebraska misses having a recruiting foot in Texas, but they claim to recruit nationally.

I know Mizzou does.

What hurts Nebraska is not being able to take in 5th grade reading level kids anymore and getting them qualified to enroll.  Mizzu still recruits the state.

[ChiTownDoc 21,152]

7 hours ago, Zavala said:

This stupid fucking conference will probably bring in Houston and Tulsa or some dumb shit.

At least they are in a league that won't throw their one of their best DL out of the game for hitting a receiver in the shoulder pads too hard. Oh, and maybe call a roughing or targeting on our QB once in a while.

 

 

The conference is a joke, they are better off in the Pac12 and the SEC, even if they aren't having much success. 

 

 

Zavala reads article about how pretty much everyone who left ended up worse off...

’Lets all leave!!!’

Fuck off aggy cunt

[Iceman 2,701]

4 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

When Colorado left the Big 12 for the Pac, they had more alumni living in California than in the entire non-Colorado Big 12 footprint. Their alumni were unhappy that the Colorado Big 12 games weren't being televised in California and that they couldn't follow their team on tv during the season.

Demand to be able to watch Colorado games in California is THE reason Colorado left the Big 12 for the Pac. Period. The alumni wanted it and the school gave it to them. Their move to the Pac had NOTHING to do with The University of Texas at Austin.

Yet they didn’t say shit about the Big 8 years?  I don’t dispute it nor being about Texas, but the other rationale seems suspect.

[66BUFF 2,562]

CU almost went to the PAC 10 back in the early 90's.  I think it was around the same time that the PAC was trying to get Texas 

[Gene Parmesan 4,005]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Yet they didn’t say shit about the Big 8 years?  I don’t dispute it nor being about Texas, but the other rationale seems suspect.

Possibly, but the college football TV landscape has changed a whole lot since the big 8 years.  While they likely also didn't see many games then that could have just been accepted as the way things are.  Lots of programs weren't on TV.  Fast forward to 2010 and that isn't acceptable any more.

[Randolph Duke 4,034]

8 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Yet they didn’t say shit about the Big 8 years?  I don’t dispute it nor being about Texas, but the other rationale seems suspect.

If you do any research about the development of college football broadcasting, you will learn that from 1952 until 1984, the NCAA had a stranglehold on college football broadcasting. There were very few games televised. In 1984, Oklahoma lead the charge to break the NCAA monopoly and what resulted was the CFA. Better, but still not all that many games were available.

Things changed in 1991, when Notre Dame signed its deal with NBC. If you remember, the Big 12 was formed in 1994.

ABC held the CFA broadcast contract until 1996 and controlled which games were broadcast.

When the ABC/ CFA contract expired in 1996, CBS signed its SEC deal. Once that happened, the landscape for college football broadcasting began to change.

So, no, they didn't say shit about it during the Big 8 years because no team (other than ND) had national distribution of their games during the life of the Big 8.

 

[Iceman 2,701]

I remember Raycom...Lol

[Nivek 16,923]

Op sucks at writing and thinking.

[DFW Horn 6,123]

2 hours ago, Thiefery said:

What hurts Nebraska is not being able to take in 5th grade reading level kids anymore and getting them qualified to enroll.  Mizzu still recruits the state.

Yes, Thomas Osborne was the patron saint of partial-qualifiers and Prop 48 athletes. NU's formula back in the day was farm boys on steroids + inner-city skill players with bad grades. That formula worked well until UT and the Big 12 disallowed it. 

[Cornfusion 250]

11 hours ago, Whatever said:

I didn't have a problem with Colorado or Mizzou but I never want to be associated with aggy or corn aggy again.

The good news is that you won't be faced with that decision to make.