For a change of pace, how about something good from "Republicans"?

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How about the GOP that was against tariffs....until it wasn't.

Oh my, a shift in ideas. This is a scary stuff. I’m pretty sure the tariffs will go down as a fuck up of this administration. 

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wanted us to be "respected again" on the world stage....until we're utterly humiliated and loathed, including by our staunchest allies.

Donald sucks, but the country knew that going in. He won’t be the first of last POTUS that isn’t respected. It sucks because we should have a respected leader.  

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Loves tax cuts that will surely lead to "job growth" -- except for the jillionth time, they've proven NOT to do that.

People love tax cuts because they think it means more $$ in their pocket.  Many times it does, many times it does not.  People are also stupid, news at 9.  Trumps cut fucked me pretty solidly, as I am sure it did many here.  My sole employment however, has been a positive since D left the house. Just the way it is in my industry. 

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And yeah, you don't get to say "yeah, but I really don't like the racism and xenophobia."  That's like saying "I'm a football fan, but I don't like all the blocking and tackling."  That's the fucking core of the brand now.

Yes you can. I don’t expect you to endorse abortions because your party feels there should be a right to choose.  There is a faction of religious people who down to their soul believe that is murder. Many don’t agree and would never conceive of the idea, but vote left.  Keep in mind half the country votes R. Half the country isn’t racist, unless you live in Dennison’s reality.

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How about how the GOP being "anti-corruption" -- but having no problem with the presidential crime family either funneling tax dollars into their pockets, or using the power of the presidency to their advantage in foreign business deals?

You trying to draw out EMAW with this shit?  Let’s leave it at MANY in the govt, including presidental families, greatly profit from their time serving.  People who’ve entered upper middle class and leave wealthy. This is a politics problem, in general  Not even a US politics problem, widespread across the world.  Trump is guilty af and blatant about it without a doubt.  

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I personally love how the GOP fanboys wanted to bring back dignity to the office, because that one time Obama saluted with a coffee cup....so they now slavishly support a man who demeans the office and the nation literally multiple times a day?

Obama lucked into Trump. No longer the worst president since Nixon.  

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe it's the party of decency, morality, and family values.....supporting a president who fucks pornstars while his wife is pregnant and then pays her off with campaign money?  That one's a good one.  I like that one.

Yes the first president to sully the office with a whore. JFK, Clinton and a host of others would like a word with you.  Less trashy adultery is still adultery.  You seem surprised Trump is filthier and more flamboyant about it? I was more surprised more of this hasn’t come to light.  we should absolute expect more from our elected leaders. 

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The GOP has no principles, because it has jettisoned most everything it SAID was a principle in order to support Trump.

And here’s the issue.  The GOP is there for the issues it supports, not the puppet.   This is where we disagree.  The Dems have stuck by plenty of adulterous, thieving, lying, racist people in power.  Because they were there to support the party and it’s ideas, not whatever weirdo asshole that got himself elected under the party’s moniker.  
 

And seriously fuck you for making me half ass defend the shitbag in power.   He is a shit stain on our country and history.  Outside of a Falwell I’m not certain the GOP could propose a more grotesque candidate, but here we are.  Left between a shit sandwich and a hard spot.  You should consider yourself lucky you have views that align with the Dems.  Because those of us who don’t share those views, and don’t like Trump, are fucked.  And there’s more out there than you think, not that it matters, there’s no one for us to vote for.

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

[Brisketexan 104610]

12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

 You should consider yourself lucky you have views that align with the Dems.  Because those of us who don’t share those views, and don’t like Trump, are fucked.  And there’s more out there than you think, not that it matters, there’s no one for us to vote for.

Well, the punchline is that the GOP problem is more than Trump, and you know it.

The ridiculous racist blowback against Obama ("He's a Kenyan muslim terrorist!  Where's the birth certificate!").  The theocracy of Dan Patrick and Ken Paxton (seriously, I deal in this world -- we have a state religion now, which has the full force of the government behind it, protecting it and even seeking to penalize those who contradict it -- fundamentalist evangelical Christianity).  The idiocracy of 30 years of one-party rule, where the only criterion for being elected is to win the GOP primary by being more extremist than your opponent, and qualifications for the job aren't even an afterthought (I'm dealing with these officials and judges daily -- it's only getting worse).

My views don't align perfectly with the Dems.  They've never aligned perfectly with anyone except the Party of Brisketexan, and we're having a tough time getting a second member to join.  But they DO align in one very important respect -- they oppose the shameless corruption, incompetence, cruelty, and lunacy of the current GOP.  The current GOP needs to experience some pain and consequences.  If that prompts them to become a party of decency and sanity, we'll all be better for it.  But supporting them only encourages more of the bad behavior, which they don't even care about anymore.

[Celery Man 20886]

I mean it's only the govt that'll save us, right?

Consumers don’t or can’t make choices in a way that creates the market pressure to cause companies to make self interested choices to address the problem. They never would in a million years and we also don’t have a million years.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The current GOP needs to experience some pain and consequences.  If that prompts them to become a party of decency and sanity, we'll all be better for it.  But supporting them only encourages more of the bad behavior, which they don't even care about anymore.

The only way for the GOP to become a party of decency is to change from within. And for that to happen some decent folks have to stay. I don't support the current GOP, but I'm not going to hate those who are trying to change it for the better. The alternative is one party rule, which you already noted is not a good thing.

[fattyflattie 4636]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, the punchline is that the GOP problem is more than Trump, and you know it.

For sure. But I don’t believe it envelops the party as much as you do.  I think a lot of that lies with the evangelical portion, personally. 

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

where the only criterion for being elected is to win the GOP primary by being more extremist than your opponent, and qualifications for the job aren't even an afterthought

Holy shit, a real #bothsides issue. I’m pretty centrist so maybe I see it in a different light, but I think there’s lots of running to the far sides. 

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They've never aligned perfectly with anyone except the Party of Brisketexan, and we're having a tough time getting a second member to join.

I understand that. I’m sitting in the same situation. A different place, but the same situation. 

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The current GOP needs to experience some pain and consequences. 

They will. 

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If that prompts them to become a party of decency and sanity, we'll all be better for it.

We’ll see. Not holding my breath that I’ll ever be satisfied with either. 

[Brisketexan 104610]

24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

For sure. But I don’t believe it envelops the party as much as you do.  I think a lot of that lies with the evangelical portion, personally. 

- They control the party.  Completely and totally.  You don't go anywhere in the party unless you dance to their tune.  There is no party outside of evangelicals, or those who do their bidding.

Holy shit, a real #bothsides issue. I’m pretty centrist so maybe I see it in a different light, but I think there’s lots of running to the far sides. 

- There's plenty of moderate Dems.  Shit, there are pro-life Dems.  There's plenty of objective study of party positions that bears this out.  One party owns the "party of extremism" label today, and it ain't even close.

I understand that. I’m sitting in the same situation. A different place, but the same situation. 

- Well, you should have whiskey at your meetings.  I do at mine.

They will. 

- Nope.  They won't.  Because an essential element of their strategy is pulling up the ladder of electoral consequences behind them.  Disenfranchise voters. actively court interference in our elections, disseminate disinformation, etc.

We’ll see. Not holding my breath that I’ll ever be satisfied with either. 

- It's not going to happen.  They're all in on the strategy one point above.

See comments above.

[workswithseed 2036]

58 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

 

Consumers don’t or can’t make choices in a way that creates the market pressure to cause companies to make self interested choices to address the problem. They never would in a million years and we also don’t have a million years.

 

Consumers can't also be producers, or are you saying consumers don't have enough power?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Although a Republican, I was never a straight ticket voter. If at the outset of this debacle of an Administration, the GOP members had sat up straight in their chairs and actively worked with their colleagues and investigated, I might have paused and considered.

As it became increasingly clear just how many elected representatives were tied up with dark money flowing from foreign sources and the lengths they would go to protect themselves from scrutiny, much less examine the motives and machinations of the President, this was not a case wherein my beliefs about other issues mattered nearly as much. Because without a sound and truthful democracy and representatives fighting to keep it that way,  those other issues will not be germane as they will be whatever the fascists tell me they must be.

The GOP is Trump. Here and there depending upon which way the wind blows, they will place the dog food in a fancier can before they toss it to you, but it is still dog food.

[Continental Op 3934]

I mean, a massive pandemic that wipes out half our population would work too. 

A free market pandemic or a liberal East coast elitist tax and spend pandemic? That will determine how I feel about this.

[Blotto 23434]

Back to the topic in the OP, I dont see a lot of details, but isn't this idea essentially what.... checks notes.....Al Gore proposed about 15 years ago (carbon tariffs/credits). The GOP was a big, big fan of that idea I seem to recall.

[Celery Man 20886]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

Consumers can't also be producers, or are you saying consumers don't have enough power?

Producers are consumers, that doesn't change anything as far as consumers behaving in ways that create market pressure to prevent businesses from destroying the environment.  It's not an economy of lemonade stands.

[workswithseed 2036]

49 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Producers are consumers, that doesn't change anything as far as consumers behaving in ways that create market pressure to prevent businesses from destroying the environment.  It's not an economy of lemonade stands.

It's starting to with Bezos being the big break into a better battery, and he did that on his own. Which in return will make electric cars cheaper. And that's only one guy.

[elfenix 34171]

If this had been done 45 years ago when first proposed or even 20 years ago when we discussed it in economics class it would probably have worked. Now I'm no longer of the opinion that a carbon tax alone is going to accomplish the changes that need to occur in the time frame necessary.

[gmr548 16512]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:20 PM, Gil Bang said:

we can’t just complain about the problem and not propose a solution.”

 

lol rino

[Nivek 16859]

10 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

There's a word for the Germans who joined the nazi party but didn't share the same hatred of Jews that Hitler had. We call them nazis.

Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi Party!