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Formula One 2020

wood

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52-80
52-80

It's already happened multiple times in the season when either of the Mercs has some sort of issue, ends up at the back, and bulldogs its way all the way to the front.  Same for the FauxMerx of Perez.

texas08
texas08

ToroRosso...now AlphaTauri. DROOL.

wood
wood

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10,516

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8 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

The track is a mess.  Resurfaced 10 days ago and it’s like ice.  They tried running regular cars on it at night to get some rubber on the pavement and then it started raining.   Sunday should be interesting. 

Qualifying should be fun. It's raining. Track is an ice rink

 

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,190

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10 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

The track is a mess.  Resurfaced 10 days ago and it’s like ice.  They tried running regular cars on it at night to get some rubber on the pavement and then it started raining.   Sunday should be interesting. 

 

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Qualifying should be fun. It's raining. Track is an ice rink

 

 

40 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

What a fucked up qualy

I missed it. But I saw that Pirelli said they took the wrong tires for everyone. They didn't know the track was repaved.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a34671708/get-a-grip-pirelli-brings-wrong-tires-to-the-f1-turkish-grand-prix/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=111320&utm_campaign=nl22094541&utm_term=AUT_Autoweek_Racing_Daily_Newsletter_Subscribers

 

OVERVIEW:

Round 14 of 17 comes from the Intercity Istanbul Park, Turkey

Q1 was delayed by two red flag periods - but the rain has now drifted away

Eliminated in Q1: Magnussen, Kvyat, Russell, Grosjean, Latifi

Eliminated in Q2: Norris, Vettel, Sainz, Leclerc, Gasly

FP3 was a wet session topped by Max Verstappen with very limited running

https://www.formula1.com/en/f1-live-lite.html#lap-by-lap

 

 

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52-80

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2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Lolz. . Stroll wins the poll. Max, Perez and Albon fill out the first 2 rows of the grid. . I'd like to have had that superfecta

Max has shown he's the 2nd best rain driver on the grid.  (I still take riccardo and leclerc over him for overall, given differences in equipment)

 

How you like that from stroll tho

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PittsburghTiger

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5 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Another great drive by Lewis. Another terrible drive by Stroll. Ferrari had a nice day. 

 

5 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

What a MF boss.

Hell yes.

 

1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

Lewis!!!! That was an unreal drive. Down 24 to ahead by 30 seconds. emoji122.pngemoji122.pngemoji122.pngemoji122.png

 

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Only 1 pit stop. Ran last 50 laps on same tires

I don't like him. The German in me doesn't like an Englishman winning in a Mercedes. But damn, that was a masterful job. Looking at his tires afterward shows just how amazing.

I think Ferrari had more than just a nice day. Only LeClerc's mishap at the end put any type of negative on the day. Both LeClerc and Vettel did a fantastic job.

It was a fun race. Not for Red Bull though. That was a bad day for them. Same ol' Same ol' for Haas. Perez and Sainz were pretty darn good too. 

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texas08

texas08 1,599

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Just watching now, my gawd!!!

That racing between Sergio and Max was damn nice!!!

Peace Max!

If Red Bull doesn’t pick Sergio up, they can go fuck themselves for ever!

Although I can see too much drama for my likings between Max and Sergio...with Max being the annoying kid and Perez laughing him off like a big brother does to the annoying little brother.

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wood

wood 11,227

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8 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Norris quietly finished in the points as well. That was a crazy race.

Yep. This is what happens when the cars aren't glued to the track and the guys actually have to drive them. I'll bet every one of those guys was completely spent, in a way they haven't been since a wet kart race.

And how about that 2-5 finish. 

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wood 11,227

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Re: the track, it was funny to hear the commentators rave on one hand about the great racing the lack of grip would produce, and then on the other hand try to figure out who to 'blame' for the track condition. 

And it seems like Karun never gets tired of being wrong, this week saying repeatedly that oils in the new pavement were rising to the top, and that's why it was so slick. That would be true with older materials, but from what I've been told by guys in the industry, it's done now with very strong sealants rather than oils, and until some of the sealant starts to wear off of the aggregate, the surface will often be very slick, esp when wet. Once it starts to wear off, the aggregate begins to be exposed, and there's more grip. It's the same problem they had at COTA when it opened, but worse. I rode in the safety truck around COTA right after it was paved and again right before the GP weekend in 2012. It wasn't oily at all, but it was slick AF. It felt more like it was painted.

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,190

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9 hours ago, texas08 said:

Just watching now, my gawd!!!

That racing between Sergio and Max was damn nice!!!

Peace Max!

If Red Bull doesn’t pick Sergio up, they can go fuck themselves for ever!

Although I can see too much drama for my likings between Max and Sergio...with Max being the annoying kid and Perez laughing him off like a big brother does to the annoying little brother.

There have been stories written about how the Red Bull setups are dictated by Max's car. I think that is similar in how Schumacher did things in that his setup was not good for anyone, but him. And that's been a big part of the problem for the #2 driver at Red Bull.I am not certain if that is accurate but, it kind of makes some sense. If they do sign Perez I would hope they allow his side of the garage some autonomy.

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52-80

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12 hours ago, wood said:

Yep. This is what happens when the cars aren't glued to the track and the guys actually have to drive them. I'll bet every one of those guys was completely spent, in a way they haven't been since a wet kart race.

And how about that 2-5 finish. 

everyone was complaining about conditions but this is what makes for racing.  seeing controlled fast isnt that exciting.  seeing uncontrolled less-fast is better

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5 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

There have been stories written about how the Red Bull setups are dictated by Max's car. I think that is similar in how Schumacher did things in that his setup was not good for anyone, but him. And that's been a big part of the problem for the #2 driver at Red Bull.I am not certain if that is accurate but, it kind of makes some sense. If they do sign Perez I would hope they allow his side of the garage some autonomy.

Everyone does that when they have one driver who's clearly better than the other - which is most teams, most of the time.  Lots of people act like there's some kind of conspiracy to screw the second driver, but the teams know the capabilities of their drivers (and frankly every driver in the field), and they maximize the #1 driver's chances.

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wood 11,227

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45 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

everyone was complaining about conditions but this is what makes for racing.  seeing controlled fast isnt that exciting.  seeing uncontrolled less-fast is better

Yep. I hope the downforce reduction plans have a similar effect, even if not as pronounced.

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PittsburghTiger

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2 hours ago, wood said:

Everyone does that when they have one driver who's clearly better than the other - which is most teams, most of the time.  Lots of people act like there's some kind of conspiracy to screw the second driver, but the teams know the capabilities of their drivers (and frankly every driver in the field), and they maximize the #1 driver's chances.

The problem is that I don't think you ever know how good another driver is when he has to drive someone else's setup. There are two cars and each should be centered to the driver of each particular car. 

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21 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

The problem is that I don't think you ever know how good another driver is when he has to drive someone else's setup. There are two cars and each should be centered to the driver of each particular car. 

No, that's not what I mean. The #2 driver isn't driving the #1 guy's setup unless he's lost and chooses to on his own. He gets to set up his own car. The conspiracy theories tend to center around the design of a car being driven to suit one driver or the other, or updates going to the #1 and not the #2, or driver 1 getting better strategy, etc.

Largely, I feel like the theories about the design being geared for the #1 guy are basically nonsense. I don't think the engineers have the luxury to choose an understeery or oversteery car just to suit one guy, esp if that design is slower than a design they have on the table. They are looking for the quickest possible car and in general the best-balanced car they can achieve, one that they can understand well, update well, and tailor well for individual tracks. They aren't going to go with a design that's slower just because that's what driver #1 historically prefers. And the best drivers are adaptable and have big windows anyway. Many of the #2s have a much narrower setup or car balance window, which is one reason they're #2s in the first place.

I do think #1 guys get better strategies and updates in general, and that's usually justifiable, imho.

And the teams know who's quicker and who has what tendencies because of all the data they have, both before the driver gets to the team and after, in the sim, during testing, FPs, etc. We're the only ones out of that loop when it comes to a definitive comparison. Racecraft, racing IQ, ability to handle pressure and certain situations, etc, are all different beasts, and become more apparent only in race or qualifying situations.

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52-80

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The team has all the financial incentive to gain Constructors points and no incentive to conspire against any individual driver, or favorably boost any individual driver. 
 

A less prominent aspect of driver skill is to aid the engineers by exploiting a car to its fullest and properly communicating its nuances. 
 

It’s possible that he’s been better at that than his teammates.  And it plausibly follows that as the team develops the car following his inputs, the car is faster in his hands*, which feeds into the development process, resulting in an apparent- but not intentional- bias towards a driver. 
 

*though it also must be said I don’t think he outperformed Ricciardo, who’s an equally aggressive driver but far less reckless....not to mention more charismatic as well. 
 

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