Formula One 2020

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

If we just ignore P1, P2 & P3 the race was not too bad.

Vettel 72.894 seconds back, LeClerc 74.920, wow.

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

In 2009 Ferrari finished 4th in points with 70. McLaren Mercedes was 3rd with 71 points. RBR Renault was 2nd with 153 and Brawn Mercedes was 1st with 172. 

This season could end up worse than that because they are now 5th behind Racing Point and McLaren. Renault is behind them but I think have a good chance to catch them.

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

Sergeant won F3 today and retook the points lead, and Mick Schumacher was 2nd in F2.

[utee94 16,080]

jfc ferrari

Glad to see Ricciardo race well, that part was fun anyway.

[faps 818]

The camera was on Ferrari while Vettel was being passed by someone again, then it cut to Carlos as he was shaking his head. Having second thoughts about that Ferrari drive next year.

All drivers want to drive for Ferrari they say, but I don't get it. They chew up and spit out drivers. Even did it to Schumacher at the end of his time there. Good luck next year, Carlos, you are gonna need it. Maybe Ferrari finds another engine "loop hole" and gains the power they lost.

On the bright side, I guess the company car perks are nice.

https://streamable.com/6ht59y

Edited August 30, 2020 by mcbrisket
added video lol

[ChickenSandwich 9,956]

Maybe next week will see how much of a difference the engine modes make not in qualifying but the start/1st sector of race. No doubt merc is in this mode at the start of the race, and are usually up 2 seconds when they clear The field before the end of the first sector. Maybe this keeps them bunched together a bit longer at the start of the race?

[wood 11,763]

1 hour ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Sergeant won F3 today and retook the points lead, and Mick Schumacher was 2nd in F2.

Kid is a badass. Next American in F1, hopefully with a good team.

[52-80 19,377]

3 hours ago, mcbrisket said:

 

All drivers want to drive for Ferrari they say, but I don't get it.

I think they pay much higher salaries.  A big guaranteed revenue split with the organizers will do that.  Huge annual budgets no matter how shitty they perform.

[utee94 16,080]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I think they pay much higher salaries.  A big guaranteed revenue split with the organizers will do that.  Huge annual budgets no matter how shitty they perform.

Yup.

You could say that at UT we chew up and spit out football coaches (not just head coaches, look at assistant firing over the years).

But it's still a destination job for many coaches.  Probably for similar reasons.

 

[wood 11,763]

Yeah it's the money, but also the mystique, history, etc. It's a destination like utee said. Even as difficult as Alonso's time was at Ferrari, he still talks with reverence about what a great experience it was. It's more like you're driving for Team Italia than just another F1 team.

[wood 11,763]

Speaking of Ferrari ... Toto looking to destabilize Ferrari even further or angling for a spot there?

Quote

"Ferrari is an iconic brand and they should be racing at the very front,” he said. “It’s not good for Formula 1, it’s not good for the competition at the front.

“I very much feel with all the Tifosi and employees of Ferrari for this lack of performance. At the end one must question the priorities that have been set in recent times and where the lack of performance comes from. But overall nobody from the fans and the Ferrari deserve such a result.” - Toto Wolff

Decisions made by specific individuals within Ferrari are to blame for the team’s situation, said Wolff.

...

“It’s wrong to say ‘Ferrari priorities’, because that drags Ferrari and everybody in Ferrari into this. It’s maybe the decisions that have been made within the team, from certain members of the team.”

...

"it is not good for Formula 1 that its most famous team is struggling so badly."

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/29/ferraris-plight-due-to-decisions-made-by-certain-team-members-wolff/

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

6 hours ago, mcbrisket said:

The camera was on Ferrari while Vettel was being passed by someone again, then it cut to Carlos as he was shaking his head. Having second thoughts about that Ferrari drive next year.

All drivers want to drive for Ferrari they say, but I don't get it. They chew up and spit out drivers. Even did it to Schumacher at the end of his time there. Good luck next year, Carlos, you are gonna need it. Maybe Ferrari finds another engine "loop hole" and gains the power they lost.

On the bright side, I guess the company car perks are nice.

https://streamable.com/6ht59y

If I remember correctly wasn't a huge part of Schumacher's problems his final two year due to new tire regulations and Bridgestone completely missing the mark?

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

9 minutes ago, wood said:

Speaking of Ferrari ... Toto looking to destabilize Ferrari even further or angling for a spot there?

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/29/ferraris-plight-due-to-decisions-made-by-certain-team-members-wolff/

Some of the comments to that link were interesting.

[wood 11,763]

1 minute ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Some of the comments to that link were interesting.

So many. I'm lazy. Which ones?

[wood 11,763]

Toto and Andy Cowell to Ferrari coming soon?

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

17 minutes ago, wood said:

So many. I'm lazy. Which ones?

Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust) 
29th August 2020, 22:42

At the end one must question the priorities that have been set in recent times and where the lack of performance comes from.

One hypothesis is Ferrari were doing something illegal with their engine to get extra power they weren’t entitled to, and that now they have stopped doing whatever it was they shouldn’t have been doing, so their engine is now producing the power it was only ever capable of producing within the rules. If so, then one can argue that was a consequence of poor decisions, but that the priorities weren’t in themselves wrong. Wanting to win isn’t wrong as a priority, after all winning is why every team is in F1, but wanting to win by breaking the rules shouldn’t be acceptable in any team as a priority.
Every team is where it is on the Constructors’ Championship table because of the priorities and decisions made. Maybe those priorities need to be given the occasional tweak, but basically if they worked in the past then why shouldn’t they now? The question isn’t so much why Ferrari are where they are now, but how quickly they can develop the new technologies necessary to get them back to the top of the WCC table while not breaking the rules. F1 is as much a technology race as it is a car race, so while they are now languishing in the midfield, Ferrari must have been in a place like this many times before to enable them to compete in around 1000 races, so I’m expecting them to rise to the occasion. Of course, it could be Ferrari haven’t actually fallen behind, rather the midfield has caught up to them, which is good for F1.

REPLY

1. 

   Paul Duggan 
   29th August 2020, 22:50

   Ferrari couldn’t get on par with Merc even given their in-bully financial advantages. So, rather than develop new technologies within the rules they deliberately broke the rules when they thought they could do it without the breach being detectable/provable. Without major management restructuring Ferrari is not capable of competing (fairly) with Mercedes. Binotto very much IS problem in all respects.

   ----------------------

   It's just interesting to read from people who really, really follow and remember. I have always been quite forgetful so I don't remember all that these folks seem to remember. 

 

[wood 11,763]

Thanks! Good discussion also on Autosport: https://forums.autosport.com/topic/215898-specific-individuals-within-ferrari-are-to-blame-for-the-team’s-situation-toto/

[elfenix 34,747]

nice drive by dannyric.  merclaren should be pretty stout next year.  also nice drive by gasly. 

[52-80 19,377]

It's been long concluded the reason for Mercedes' success and Ferrari's failure is organizational.  One is modern and efficient.  The other toils under a concentrated power under the wrong leader done ad hoc.  Which is, to be prejudiced and discriminatory, seems typically Italian.  So they yank one dude out and the same thing happens again.

 

I'm also... not that sympathetic about it?  It's like feeling bad for Manchester United.  Just can't happen.  Also my opinion of Scuderia Ferrari the racing team is colored by Ferrari the manufacturer.  They're known for really anachronistic ways of doing PR/Media.  They "engineer" themselves to win press comparison tests.  They blackmail journalists who don't praise them.  etc.  Fuck them.

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a33843231/newest-low-for-ferrari-vettel-leclerc-spend-f1-belgian-gp-with-the-backmarkers/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=083020&utm_campaign=nl21365020&utm_term=AUT_Autoweek_Weekend_Racing_Wrapup_Newsletter_Subscribers

 

some good quotes in this story.

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

It's been long concluded the reason for Mercedes' success and Ferrari's failure is organizational.  One is modern and efficient.  The other toils under a concentrated power under the wrong leader done ad hoc.  Which is, to be prejudiced and discriminatory, seems typically Italian.  So they yank one dude out and the same thing happens again.   I'm also... not that sympathetic about it?  It's like feeling bad for Manchester United.  Just can't happen.  Also my opinion of Scuderia Ferrari the racing team is colored by Ferrari the manufacturer.  They're known for really anachronistic ways of doing PR/Media.  They "engineer" themselves to win press comparison tests.  They blackmail journalists who don't praise them.  etc.  Fuck them.   

 

 

Yep!  I have stated this as well in posts in one of the old threads after Arrivabene was sacked. That dude was the best leader they have had in a while. They still wouldn’t have won with him for the reasons you stated, but Binotto is such a far cry from what Maurizio Arrivabene was (technical knowledge aside).  They clashed though, and Binotto said it was him or MA, and he won out. Peter Windsor, who I generally do not care for (and think his color commentary is horrible on the F2/F3 races), but does have good sources, stated that when this power switch happened, Ferrari lost some other employees as well, who ended up at Mercedes, which is how they came to know how Ferrari was performing their power unit “trick”. They essentially told the FIA, “we won’t protest this, but either make a ruling on it, or we will use it ourselves, because it’s a pretty big advantage”.

 

Thus, weird secret agreement with Ferrari and the FIA. He admits it’s hearsay, but it’s pretty plausible.

 

Start at 8:20:

 

 https://youtu.be/9ZEpnOkEaYc

 

 

Mercedes on the other hand has an incredibly positive no-blame culture that encourages innovation and doesn’t punish people for trying things and having them not work out. Their engineers aren’t afraid to being new ideas to the table. It’s a sight to see, and live them or hate them, they are pretty transparent with their race briefing and technical videos that they put on their YT channel.

 

Toto, while political where he has to be, has to be a great side to work for. Of course, the groundwork for this was laid by Ross Brawn and Norbert Haug. Toto continued it beautifully, though.

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

Double post b

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

Gotdam that post got messed up. Editing a post with a YouTube video on this site is not fun.

Whatever, you get the gist.

[utee94 16,080]

6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

It's been long concluded the reason for Mercedes' success and Ferrari's failure is organizational.  One is modern and efficient.  The other toils under a concentrated power under the wrong leader done ad hoc.  Which is, to be prejudiced and discriminatory, seems typically Italian.  So they yank one dude out and the same thing happens again.

 

I'm also... not that sympathetic about it?  It's like feeling bad for Manchester United.  Just can't happen.  Also my opinion of Scuderia Ferrari the racing team is colored by Ferrari the manufacturer.  They're known for really anachronistic ways of doing PR/Media.  They "engineer" themselves to win press comparison tests.  They blackmail journalists who don't praise them.  etc.  Fuck them.

Sure you can compare to ManU.  Or the NY Yankees.  Or the Dallas Cowboys.

Or the Texas Longhorns.  Outsiders revel in our football struggles in the exact same manner you're enjoying Ferrari's failures.

 

[Huckleberry 34,589]

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Mercedes on the other hand has an incredibly positive no-blame culture that encourages innovation and doesn’t punish people for trying things and having them not work out. Their engineers aren’t afraid to being new ideas to the table.

Like, say, contacting the Nazi Party to see if they can get their hands on some free labor.

/hadtobesaid

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

Most of the employees are British and lots are former Ilmor/British American Racing/BAR Honda/Brawn GP carryovers, but sure!

[wood 11,763]

3 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Yep!  I have stated this as well in posts in one of the old threads after Arrivabene was sacked. That dude was the best leader they have had in a while. They still wouldn’t have won with him for the reasons you stated, but Binotto is such a far cry from what Maurizio Arrivabene was (technical knowledge aside).  They clashed though, and Binotto said it was him or MA, and he won out. Peter Windsor, who I generally do not care for (and think his color commentary is horrible on the F2/F3 races), but does have good sources, stated that when this power switch happened, Ferrari lost some other employees as well, who ended up at Mercedes, which is how they came to know how Ferrari was performing their power unit “trick”. They essentially told the FIA, “we won’t protest this, but either make a ruling on it, or we will use it ourselves, because it’s a pretty big advantage”.

 

Thus, weird secret agreement with Ferrari and the FIA. He admits it’s hearsay, but it’s pretty plausible.

 

Start at 8:20:

 

https://youtu.be/9ZEpnOkEaYc

 

 

Mercedes on the other hand has an incredibly positive no-blame culture that encourages innovation and doesn’t punish people for trying things and having them not work out. Their engineers aren’t afraid to being new ideas to the table. It’s a sight to see, and live them or hate them, they are pretty transparent with their race briefing and technical videos that they put on their YT channel.

 

Toto, while political where he has to be, has to be a great side to work for. Of course, the groundwork for this was laid by Ross Brawn and Norbert Haug. Toto continued it beautifully, though.

The highest profile and probably most important Ferrari defection was James Allison, who supposedly left due to his wife's death, took a 'gardening leave', and then turned up at Merc.

And yeah, the tactic of 'seeking a clarification' so that you either can use the new tech or get it banned is a time-honored tradition in F1.

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

The highest profile and probably most important Ferrari defection was James Allison, who supposedly left due to his wife's death, took a 'gardening leave', and then turned up at Merc. And yeah, the tactic of 'seeking a clarification' so that you either can use the new tech or get it banned is a time-honored tradition in F1. 

 

 

 

Him and Aldo Costa (who was forced out!), for sure.

 

It’s just a bit hazy on when exactly this tech was engineered. James Allison left Ferrari in mid-2016 (fun fact: Mattia Binotto, then “head of engines” replaced him) and Arrivabene wasn’t forced out until the end of the 2018 (actually January 2019) of course. But, he still could have had some knowledge about it, certainly.

[wood 11,763]

 

22 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

 

Him and Aldo Costa (who was forced out!), for sure.

 

It’s just a bit hazy on when exactly this tech was engineered. James Allison left Ferrari in mid-2016 (fun fact: Mattia Binotto, then “head of engines” replaced him) and Arrivabene wasn’t forced out until the end of the 2018 (actually January 2019) of course. But, he still could have had some knowledge about it, certainly.

Yeah there's a big debate over on Autosport about who is most culpable for the engine cheat - Binotto or Arrivabene. Of course nobody has any way of knowing for sure, but that doesn't stop 'em from saying it's definitely, solely one or the other, because internet. I have a feeling that, as with most things, the truth lies somewhere in between.

[wood 11,763]

Rumor has it there's big news coming from Renault on Sunday ... possibly with some kind of 'unveiling'. A French autosport poster who's been good for Renault info before tipped it off. When asked if it's good news or bad, said:

Groupe Renault will remain in F1 and with full ownership of Enstone.

Cyril will remain onboard and we might see Ocon and Alonso doing some extra races in 2021 outside of F1.
I can't say more

...

You will see the change by yourself.
It will be very apparent.
If i say more i get in hot water.\

...

The thing will be unveiled on sunday.

I'm guessing there's a new sponsor involved, maybe Movistar? 

[sidis 10,015]

i sure wish this cratering failure of a couple of years for ferrari meant that i could buy a roma for a bit cheaper.

Edited September 2, 2020 by sidis

[ConferenceRoom 6,214]

Sir Frank and Claire Williams are stepping away from the team. 

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21,285]

The team has obviously been circling the drain for a while now, but still pretty sad to see it come to this. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

8 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

The team has obviously been circling the drain for a while now, but still pretty sad to see it come to this. 

True. But this way the team lives on. In a different form, but it lives on, with probably a better future. 

Didn't Stewart become Jaguar become Red Bull Racing?

Edited September 3, 2020 by PittsburghTiger

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

True. But this way the team lives on. In a different form, but it lives on, with probably a better future. 
Didn't Stewart become Jaguar become Red Bull Racing?

Yes. Though Stewart Grand Prix was only around 3 years and wasn’t some kind of big name F1 team.

Stewart Grand Prix -> Jaguar -> Red Bull

Tyrrell -> British American Racing -> Honda Racing F1 -> Brawn GP -> Mercedes AMG

Jordan F1 -> Midland F1 -> Spyker F1 Team -> Force India -> Racing Point -> Aston Martin

Minardi F1 -> Scuderia Toro Rosso -> Scuderia Alpha Tauri

Toleman Motorsport -> Benetton Formula -> Renault F1 Team -> Lotus F1 Team -> Renault Sport F1 Team

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

15 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Yes. Though Stewart Grand Prix was only around 3 years and wasn’t some kind of big name F1 team.

Stewart Grand Prix -> Jaguar -> Red Bull

Tyrrell -> British American Racing -> Honda Racing F1 -> Brawn GP -> Mercedes AMG

Jordan F1 -> Midland F1 -> Spyker F1 Team -> Force India -> Racing Point -> Aston Martin

Minardi F1 -> Scuderia Toro Rosso -> Scuderia Alpha Tauri

Toleman Motorsport -> Benetton Formula -> Renault F1 Team -> Lotus F1 Team -> Renault Sport F1 Team

My point wasn't that Stewart was a long establish bedrock name, just that teams change over time. Some disappear completely and others become something else, often for the betterment of the team, and the sport in general.

[wood 11,763]

Some speculation now that the buyer might have Renault ties and Williams could be entering a technical partnership with Renault, a la RP and Merc ... thus further explaining Renault so intensely seeking clarification re: RP and Merc.

[wood 11,763]

Renault Sport brand set to disappear and Alpine to be the only sport brand for Renault...
https://www.caradisiac.com/renault-sport-sur-le-point-de-disparaitre-185206.htm

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by wood

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

Renault Sport brand set to disappear and Alpine to be the only sport brand for Renault...
https://www.caradisiac.com/renault-sport-sur-le-point-de-disparaitre-185206.htm
 
 

That would be a neat rebrand.

[utee94 16,080]

[wood 11,763]

44 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Rep given. One of my favorite songs, & then possibly the best remake of all time ...

 

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

3 hours ago, wood said:

Renault Sport brand set to disappear and Alpine to be the only sport brand for Renault...
https://www.caradisiac.com/renault-sport-sur-le-point-de-disparaitre-185206.htm

 

 

My French is not that good.  Is there an English version?

[Anton Chigurh 3,335]

My French is not that good.  Is there an English version?

Renault Sport on the verge of extinction

In News / Other News News

Florent Ferrière September 03, 2020 at 7:04 p.m.

The Renault Sport brand is expected to be wiped out in favour of Alpine, which would become the only sports brand in the Renault Group.

Renault Sport sur le point de disparaître
While Luca de Meo plans to detail his battle plan for the Renault Group in January 2021, internally, the major maneuvers have already begun. Officially in office since the beginning of July, the new CEO of Losange has not lost a second. In fact, at the end of July, Luca de Meo did not hesitate to declare: "Over the last four weeks, I think we have made more decisions about the product than in the last two years."

And you don't have to wait until January to discover the first fruits of your work. In a statement, Renault unveiled the basis of its reorganization. It will be around four business units: Renault, Dacia, Alpine and New Mobility. For Luca de Meo, it's about "working in a simpler way, more market-oriented and customer-oriented, with a team spirit, to get the best possible result."

For now, there is official discussion of a project and a phase of reflection is launched. Four people were chosen to lead this reflection. Luca de Meo will take care of Renault, Denis le Vot de Dacia, Cyril Abiteboul d'Alpine and Clotilde Delbos of new mobility.

The chef's surprise is clearly Cyril Abiteboul. The man is currently the general manager of Renault Sport Racing and therefore takes care of the Formula 1 team. A presence all the more surprising because Alpine is recently managed by Patrick Marinoff, who was debauched at Mercedes-AMG! Is he already pushed to the exit? Will it have another function? We don't know yet.

The good thing is that Alpine has a future. While his future already seemed uncertain, with an A110 struggling to attract new customers after the debut with fanfare, Luca de Meo acts the continuation of the adventure. And Alpine should even take some gallon... to the point of chasing another label.

According to our information, the Renault Sport brand is in fact about to be discontinued. Luca de Meo would have made this decision to give more space to Alpine, which would thus be the only sports brand of the group. The appointment of the director of Renault Sport Racing to the alpine race seems to confirm this.

The general idea is a name change, not the killing of an entire entity. But should we expect a simple blue and orange ripolage of Renault Sport's activities? Or will Luca de Meo do a more extensive cleaning up of Renault Sport's activities and merge the current doubles services between Renault Sport and Alpine? Man is looking for savings. This may raise fears of job cuts in the Renault Sport division, which manages the development of standard sports vehicles as well as vehicles for customer competitions, such as the Clio Cup, Rally and RX. The project is expected to be clarified in the coming weeks.

What about range? The end of Renault Sport would so far only affect the Mégane, the only model still branded RS, the Clio RS having been abandoned. But this would not automatically mean the end of sports cars at Renault... if there are still because pollution standards seem to have killed projects in the bud. Again, we could be talking about Alpine. A return to the roots since we remember a certain R5 Alpine Turbo.

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

3 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Renault Sport on the verge of extinction

In News / Other News News

Florent Ferrière September 03, 2020 at 7:04 p.m.

The Renault Sport brand is expected to be wiped out in favour of Alpine, which would become the only sports brand in the Renault Group.

Renault Sport sur le point de disparaître
While Luca de Meo plans to detail his battle plan for the Renault Group in January 2021, internally, the major maneuvers have already begun. Officially in office since the beginning of July, the new CEO of Losange has not lost a second. In fact, at the end of July, Luca de Meo did not hesitate to declare: "Over the last four weeks, I think we have made more decisions about the product than in the last two years."

And you don't have to wait until January to discover the first fruits of your work. In a statement, Renault unveiled the basis of its reorganization. It will be around four business units: Renault, Dacia, Alpine and New Mobility. For Luca de Meo, it's about "working in a simpler way, more market-oriented and customer-oriented, with a team spirit, to get the best possible result."

For now, there is official discussion of a project and a phase of reflection is launched. Four people were chosen to lead this reflection. Luca de Meo will take care of Renault, Denis le Vot de Dacia, Cyril Abiteboul d'Alpine and Clotilde Delbos of new mobility.

The chef's surprise is clearly Cyril Abiteboul. The man is currently the general manager of Renault Sport Racing and therefore takes care of the Formula 1 team. A presence all the more surprising because Alpine is recently managed by Patrick Marinoff, who was debauched at Mercedes-AMG! Is he already pushed to the exit? Will it have another function? We don't know yet.

The good thing is that Alpine has a future. While his future already seemed uncertain, with an A110 struggling to attract new customers after the debut with fanfare, Luca de Meo acts the continuation of the adventure. And Alpine should even take some gallon... to the point of chasing another label.

According to our information, the Renault Sport brand is in fact about to be discontinued. Luca de Meo would have made this decision to give more space to Alpine, which would thus be the only sports brand of the group. The appointment of the director of Renault Sport Racing to the alpine race seems to confirm this.

The general idea is a name change, not the killing of an entire entity. But should we expect a simple blue and orange ripolage of Renault Sport's activities? Or will Luca de Meo do a more extensive cleaning up of Renault Sport's activities and merge the current doubles services between Renault Sport and Alpine? Man is looking for savings. This may raise fears of job cuts in the Renault Sport division, which manages the development of standard sports vehicles as well as vehicles for customer competitions, such as the Clio Cup, Rally and RX. The project is expected to be clarified in the coming weeks.

What about range? The end of Renault Sport would so far only affect the Mégane, the only model still branded RS, the Clio RS having been abandoned. But this would not automatically mean the end of sports cars at Renault... if there are still because pollution standards seem to have killed projects in the bud. Again, we could be talking about Alpine. A return to the roots since we remember a certain R5 Alpine Turbo.

Vielen dank

[wood 11,763]

White line being enforced at Monza! Nice.

[wood 11,763]

 

[52-80 19,377]

Rebrands and renames is such a whole lotta corporate busybody do-nothing. 

 

Renault Sport has built a pretty good name for decades and now there's going to be all this shuffling around to revive a long dead marque? the CEO and all the consultants he burns money on can't come up with something more creative than that?

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

On 9/4/2020 at 5:39 AM, wood said:

White line being enforced at Monza! Nice.

And it is already coming to impact in Q1, nice!

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

Turned into a nice cluster fuck at the end of Q1, it was fun. It was like a race out there. Not sure I agree with Ocon's action out there at the end of Q1.

[PittsburghTiger 6,340]

Q2 up now. Mercedes come out on softs.