Formula One 2020

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Sure, but they could have already done that if they wanted to. The only reason they have the different modes in the first place is because they didn't want to run the fastest modes all the time.

Not without giving up their highest Q mode, though. They measure engine wear by monitoring knock. They have a finite amount of high mode usage, since it does cause engine knock. Without the highest ICE mode in Q, they’re able to use their higher race mode as a normal mode now, since they are distributing that wear that they would normally get from Q mode onto the race mode.

Before, it was strat 3 for 2 runs in Q2, strat 2 for 2 runs in Q3, and the 250 or whatever laps of high race mode (I don’t know which strat that one was/is). Now it’s just one compromised mode of course that is a little slower in Q and faster in the race. I’d still like to see how it goes at other tracks though, of course.

[wood 11103]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

that link doesn't work.  F1.com has the story:

though the author might want to brush up on his history of grand prix racing

Weird. Still works great on this end.

[wood 11103]

3 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Not without giving up their highest Q mode, though. They measure engine wear by monitoring knock. They have a finite amount of high mode usage, since it does cause engine knock. Without the highest ICE mode in Q, they’re able to use their higher race mode as a normal mode now, since they are distributing that wear that they would normally get from Q mode onto the race mode.

Before, it was strat 3 for 2 runs in Q2, strat 2 for 2 runs in Q3, and the 250 or whatever laps of high race mode (I don’t know which strat that one was/is). Now it’s just one compromised mode of course that is a little slower in Q and faster in the race. I’d still like to see how it goes at other tracks though, of course.

Sure. They could have done the same before though. If what they have to do now is better, or even just as good as before, they'd have been doing it before. Toto is just spinning it imho. It's interesting because he usually gives everything the old Lou Holtz/Mack Brown "They're all just as good as we are" spin.

[wood 11103]

Ocon told to stfu until the debrief.

https://streamable.com/pgyfww

[wood 11103]

BTW Lewis crying to the stewards mid-red flag was so ... Lewis.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Sure. They could have done the same before though. If what they have to do now is better, or even just as good as before, they'd have been doing it before. Toto is just spinning it imho. It's interesting because he usually gives everything the old Lou Holtz/Mack Brown "They're all just as good as we are" spin.

Except that the other teams would have still had their Q mode then. They don’t anymore.

It affects everyone, but it affects Mercedes less.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

BTW Lewis crying to the stewards mid-red flag was so ... Lewis.

Lolwut. I was not aware seeking clarification was crying.

[wood 11103]

10 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Lolwut. I was not aware seeking clarification was crying.

Do we really know what he was doing in the office? But even if that's what he was doing, it was stupid. What's to clarify? It was a clear, deserved penalty.  The only thing weird about it was how long it took them to hand out Lewis's penalty after GIO's came down.

[wood 11103]

17 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Except that the other teams would have still had their Q mode then. They don’t anymore.

It affects everyone, but it affects Mercedes less.

The other teams may have Q modes, but they wouldn't be as different to their race modes as Merc's, because Merc's engine has been so strong that they don't need to use as much of it as the rest need to use. By all accounts I've seen, the Renault PU is hampered the least by the new rule, which is consistent with what we saw today with McLaren, but I never expected it to knock Merc off the top spot. Anyone who expected that was being unrealistic. I do love that the teams now have a tougher decision to make during the weekend about what mode to run rather than being able to constantly micromanage every aspect of the PU from the pit wall.

Edited September 6, 2020 by wood

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

18 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Except that the other teams would have still had their Q mode then. They don’t anymore.

It affects everyone, but it affects Mercedes less.

Ferrari supposedly doesn’t have one and Honda said this was the first year they do. Mercedes is the clear loser.

I think their performance in traffic was telling, they don’t bother to put any set up thought for the car in regards to running in traffic.  First lap party mode had allowed them to clear the field in almost every race, and the blue flag negates having to worry about the rear of the field.  They are basically set up to run in clear air.  This isn’t the first race they struggled with engine and tire temps as soon as they get behind someone.  

Them turning it up could lead to more failures which at this point is welcome for competition. 

[wood 11103]

OBTW that penalty on Albon was complete bullshit.

[wood 11103]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Ferrari supposedly doesn’t have one and Honda said this was the first year they do. Mercedes is the clear loser.

I think their performance in traffic was telling, they don’t bother to put any set up thought for the car in regards to running in traffic.  First lap party mode had allowed them to clear the field in almost every race, and the blue flag negates having to worry about the rear of the field.  They are basically set up to run in clear air.  This isn’t the first race they struggled with engine and tire temps as soon as they get behind someone.  

Them turning it up could lead to more failures which at this point is welcome for competition. 

Yeah the car is clearly set up - likely even designed - solely to run up front. Thanks for that about Ferrari and Honda. I was thinking I had heard that, but couldn't remember which teams. Yep, if you have to run hot all the time to try to compete, there's no reason to have a Q mode. That's the point.

And yeah re: the competition, these reliability rules are terrible for the smaller teams and for the show.

[Goofyboy 3156]

Ferrari supposedly doesn’t have one and Honda said this was the first year they do. Mercedes is the clear loser.

I think their performance in traffic was telling, they don’t bother to put any set up thought for the car in regards to running in traffic.  First lap party mode had allowed them to clear the field in almost every race, and the blue flag negates having to worry about the rear of the field.  They are basically set up to run in clear air.  This isn’t the first race they struggled with engine and tire temps as soon as they get behind someone.  
Them turning it up could lead to more failures which at this point is welcome for competition. 

Did you not see Hamilton come from last to 7th? Traffic is not an issue for him. Bottas might have issues.
Oh, it’s not crying if it gets you out of a penalty. Anything to win.

[wood 11103]

11 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Did you not see Hamilton come from last to 7th? Traffic is not an issue for him. Bottas might have issues.
Oh, it’s not crying if it gets you out of a penalty. Anything to win.

Lewis is no Bottas, thankfully, but Bottas probably would have done almost as well in that car moving up against those cars. The real issues come when they're following quick cars.

Edited September 6, 2020 by wood

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

Just now, Goofyboy said:

Did you not see Hamilton come from last to 7th? Traffic is not an issue for him. Bottas might have issues.
Oh, it’s not crying if it gets you out of a penalty. Anything to win.

He came through traffic but only took 10 seconds off his gap to first. He came out just under 28 seconds behind Gasly with half the race to go. He was still 17 seconds behind the leader at the finish. The car is clearly on another level, but with Q mode maybe he gets the podium. 

[Huckleberry 32685]

Exactly. Comparing Hamilton passing up the back of the pack who just (rightly) moved out of his way to Bottas not being able to pass the competitive cars who were fighting is silly.

[Huckleberry 32685]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

He came through traffic but only took 10 seconds off his gap to first. He came out just under 28 seconds behind Gasly with half the race to go. He was still 17 seconds behind the leader at the finish. The car is clearly on another level, but with Q mode maybe he gets the podium. 

Yep, in 26 laps he made up 11 seconds on cars who were battling the entire time compared to his clean air for the first several laps and then cars who basically acted like they were blue flagged.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

He came through traffic but only took 10 seconds off his gap to first. He came out just under 28 seconds behind Gasly with half the race to go. He was still 17 seconds behind the leader at the finish. The car is clearly on another level, but with Q mode maybe he gets the podium. 

 

 

Well, 10 seconds of that was gained in the first 8 laps (on lap 29 he was 30 seconds behind and on lap 37 he was 20), then he hit traffic of course. Damn dirty air!

[wood 11103]

BTW, anyone hear where was Lewis today during the pre-race anti-racism message and kneeling thingy?

[Kdub 498]

Finally watched the race. Way to go Gasly!!! I hope he walks by Horner and tells him to eat shit. Great racing after the restart, Merc with the rare screw up. Sainz almost pulled it off. Everybody shits on Stroll, but the kid has talent. Haha fuck Redbull and those twats Marko and Horner.

[Kdub 498]

Ferrari, sigh..... glad Leclerc is ok, that crash was scary. Poor Vettel he deserves better than this. I thought Renault would have a shot at a podium. 

So happy for Gasly. Crazy race, Hamilton finishing 7th after that colossal screw-up shows how strong that car is. Though it weakness is running in traffic. Great Race!

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

1 hour ago, Kdub said:

Finally watched the race. Way to go Gasly!!! I hope he walks by Horner and tells him to eat shit. Great racing after the restart, Merc with the rare screw up. Sainz almost pulled it off. Everybody shits on Stroll, but the kid has talent. Haha fuck Redbull and those twats Marko and Horner.

Stroll got lucky. Should have seen a penalty for blowing through the breaking zone and rejoining without losing a spot. Then the red flag free pit stop was beyond fortuitous. 

[wood 11103]

Norris lashes out at "stupid" red flag tyre change rule https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/norris-stupid-red-flag-tyre-change/4870214/

[wood 11103]

Heh...I always wondered what the Ocon hype was based on.

[faps 806]

Big oof, put 10 seconds on him per stint. Probably a similar case with Max to Alex, Danny is just a better driver than Ocon.

That said, I don't like Ocon. lol

[wood 11103]

11 minutes ago, mcbrisket said:

Big oof, put 10 seconds on him per stint. Probably a similar case with Max to Alex, Danny is just a better driver than Ocon.

That said, I don't like Ocon. lol

Seems like not many people do.

[utee94 15742]

<Don Draper>I don't think about Ocon at all.</Don Draper>

[wood 11103]

Wolff says lack of engine modes hindered Monza fightback https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-engine-mode-monza-fightback/4870757/

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

8 minutes ago, wood said:

Wolff says lack of engine modes hindered Monza fightback https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-engine-mode-monza-fightback/4870757/

I'm not going to complain about that.

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

22 minutes ago, wood said:

Wolff says lack of engine modes hindered Monza fightback https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-engine-mode-monza-fightback/4870757/

just shows they were using it waaayyy more than just qualifying, and complaining about not being able to make up 30 seconds in half a race shows that they will not really be penalized by moving to the back of the grid for a power unit swap if they ran party mode for prolonged periods during a race

Should have turned it up on Wednesday Wolff.

Edited September 8, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

just shows they were using it waaayyy more than just qualifying, and complaining about not being able to make up 30 seconds in half a race shows that they will not really be penalized by moving to the back of the grid for a power unit swap if they ran party mode for prolonged periods during a race

Should have turned it up on Wednesday Wolff.

 

We now have a huge dirty air problem.

 

Lewis in clean air was obviously fine (he was 13.5 seconds up the road from Sainz in 20 laps before the SC). Others had big issues because the frozen engine modes have exacerbated the dirty air problem. Sainz in a much faster McLaren couldn’t get by Gasly because of it either.

 

I’m actually pretty concerned about it. Aside from Lewis passing some mostly slower cars, and Kimi (who is in a backmarker Sauber) dropping like a rock since he took softs for some reason, there were no overtakes in the last half of the race. Bottas and Max both stated they couldn’t hardly race due to engine temps. Max even retired due to overheating. I feel like it’s only going to get worse.

 

Hell, even in the first part of the race, the grid doesn’t even change after the first few laps until the SC. Albon passed a Haas and an Alfa, and KMag passed a Williams, but that’s it.

 

Lap 4

 

 

Lap 18

 

 

Lap 31

 

 

End of race

 

 

That’s like, 10 overtakes and Hamilton had 8 of them. Mugello doesn’t look like it’s going to fare much better either.

[wood 11103]

I doubt there will be much overtaking at Mugello, but not because of the engines.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

I doubt there will be much overtaking at Mugello, but not because of the engines.

I agree that it’s definitely not an overtake-friendly circuit to begin with, but it’s still gonna make races more boring. Qualifying is even more important now.

[faps 806]

Guess we'll have to wait for the 2022 regs when ground effect is allowed.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

This is neat.

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/29835652/gasly-opens-learning-very-special-hamilton-influence

[TonyTexas 10478]

That’s some shady shit, Prepuce. 

On 9/5/2020 at 11:58 AM, Prepuce of Doom said:

Not that I expect that anyone is reading this thread before watching qualifying, or that anyone will go back and look, but there was a really cool shot at the 10:16 - 10:09 mark of Q3 where you could really see the aero "wake" coming off of Bottas's car where it disrupted the "shimmering heat waves" (don't know the technical team, but you know what I mean) coming off of the track surface. 

Also, I realize that this will never happen, but I would love to see Vettel just say fuck it and sign up with Tony Stewart's SRX series. 

This (plus Willy T. Ribbs) is the first half of the list of participants. 

 

 

On 9/6/2020 at 3:53 PM, Prepuce of Doom said:

Looks like I called it yesterday... 

Anyway. If you weren’t a liar, this could have been you. 

Betting on sports is a great way for most people to prove they aren't clairvoyant and drain their bank accounts. But sometimes, ultra long-shot bets pay off, as they did for a Finnish gambler who dropped just a few cents on an unthinkable podium order for Formula 1's Italian Grand Prix this past weekend and walked away with tens of thousands of dollars.Per Scandinavia's Yle, the unnamed Tampere, Finland gambler put $0.24 on a podium consisting of Pierre Gasly, Carlos Sainz, and Lance Stroll. Not a likely finishing order for a trio of drivers who qualified tenth, third, and eighth respectively, and had to outrace the all-conquering Mercedes-AMG team. Betting odds for this order were thus rated at 166,990:1 by Finland's state-owned gambling monopoly Veikkaus, but the pieces for this order slowly fell into place.

Valtteri Bottas lost positions at the start, twin safety cars disrupted the running order, and a heavy penalty knocked Lewis Hamilton out of the lead, promoting Gasly—who timed his pit stop impeccably—to a race lead he clung to for dear life.

In the end, Gasly finished a mere 0.415 seconds ahead of Sainz, notching up F1's closest race finish in a decade, his first career win, and the second in his team's history; the other coming from a similarly unusual Italian Grand Prix in 2008 courtesy of Sebastian Vettel's first-ever win. And while Gasly left the track with a trophy, a full inbox, and the respect of the F1 community, the Finn who bet on his victory came away about $39,390 richer.

 

[wood 11103]

11 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

That’s some shady shit, Prepuce. 

 

Anyway. If you weren’t a liar, this could have been you. 

Betting on sports is a great way for most people to prove they aren't clairvoyant and drain their bank accounts. But sometimes, ultra long-shot bets pay off, as they did for a Finnish gambler who dropped just a few cents on an unthinkable podium order for Formula 1's Italian Grand Prix this past weekend and walked away with tens of thousands of dollars.Per Scandinavia's Yle, the unnamed Tampere, Finland gambler put $0.24 on a podium consisting of Pierre Gasly, Carlos Sainz, and Lance Stroll. Not a likely finishing order for a trio of drivers who qualified tenth, third, and eighth respectively, and had to outrace the all-conquering Mercedes-AMG team. Betting odds for this order were thus rated at 166,990:1 by Finland's state-owned gambling monopoly Veikkaus, but the pieces for this order slowly fell into place.

Valtteri Bottas lost positions at the start, twin safety cars disrupted the running order, and a heavy penalty knocked Lewis Hamilton out of the lead, promoting Gasly—who timed his pit stop impeccably—to a race lead he clung to for dear life.

In the end, Gasly finished a mere 0.415 seconds ahead of Sainz, notching up F1's closest race finish in a decade, his first career win, and the second in his team's history; the other coming from a similarly unusual Italian Grand Prix in 2008 courtesy of Sebastian Vettel's first-ever win. And while Gasly left the track with a trophy, a full inbox, and the respect of the F1 community, the Finn who bet on his victory came away about $39,390 richer.

 

LOL, yep. I fell for that too. Damn you, PoD!

That's a helluva bet...

That may not be a bad strategy - lay out very small amounts every week on every combo of podium finishers. How many possible combos would there be? 180?

Edited September 9, 2020 by wood

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Perez is out at RP at end of year. I’d assume a Vettel announcement will be forthcoming.

[ConferenceRoom 6123]

Did Renault/Alpine confirm their second driver next year? Could it be Fred and Checo?

[Hawndoh 2379]

I would think Ocon is still under contract.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Well, so was Perez!

[TonyTexas 10478]

1 hour ago, wood said:

LOL, yep. I fell for that too. Damn you, PoD!

That's a helluva bet...

That may not be a bad strategy - lay out very small amounts every week on every combo of podium finishers. How many possible combos would there be? 180?

Actually, there are 6,840 permutations of 3 in an exact order out of a field of 20. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by TonyTexas

[Prepuce of Doom 20969]

You could probably get by with just 14 drivers - Williams, Alfa Romeo, and Haas are longshots even in a scheme focused solely on longshots. 

[wood 11103]

So, Checo is out ... Man, I feel bad for him, esp after all he's done for that team. Hope he lands in a good spot.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/54095848

Just 10 hours after this article quoted Otmar saying their 2021 lineup would be the same as the last two years...

https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-tuscan-grand-prix-sebastian-vettel-racing-point-boss-shuts-the-door-on-potential-aston-martin-seat-in-bizarre-interview/

This is weird...

Edited September 9, 2020 by wood

[wood 11103]

Ex-F1 driver Webber returns to racing in Tony Stewart's new US oval series https://the-race.com/formula-1/ex-f1-driver-webber-returns-to-racing-in-new-us-oval-series/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=SocialSnap

[TonyTexas 10478]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

You could probably get by with just 14 drivers - Williams, Alfa Romeo, and Haas are longshots even in a scheme focused solely on longshots. 

That would cut down the number a lot. At 14, there are 2,184 permutations 

[Updawg 2260]

If you bet $0.01 on grosjean you should win $1mm

[Prepuce of Doom 20969]

If you bet $0.01 on Grosjean you should be neutered. 

[wood 11103]

[wood 11103]

...and who knows ... maybe it's not Vettel that's headed to RP.