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2 dead in thwarted mass shooting attempt at Fort Worth area church that was live streaming on YouTube

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in Daily Texan

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Cajun

Cajun 11714

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, pacman said:

Can't possibly get a cure figured out since the nuts from both sides can't even sit in the same room to discuss a way forward...

Even if they did there'd still be no cure.

Too many nuts in the world with guns, fertilizer, moving trucks, machetes, fire accelerants, on and on.

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tchookem

tchookem 3900

Posted
Posted
Tell us the cure.

All gun ownership requires active membership in the state-regulated militia. States are then free to set their own standards for membership. If a state so chooses, membership can involve filling out an online application, or the state can require (or not require) weekly, monthly, yearly trainings. The state can require (or not require) checks for mental illness, shooting ability, gun safety, etc. But here's the kicker, the state assumes all responsibility for any crimes committed by its members or their weapons.

 

This would not only allow people access to the weapons they want, but also meet the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment (an actual organized, well-trained state militia to protect from federal tyranny and other threats).

 

Since the state has a financial interest in the actions of their militia members, they will actually regulate them. I'd suggest the state set tiers (with different requirements) for different types of weapons. That way a person only interested in hunting could own shotguns/ hunting rifles, but only need a bare minimum of participation in the militia. If a person wants more sophisticated weapons, they are able to buy them, but they would also agree to more stringent requirements from the militia (more meetings, more trainings, more physical and mental check-ups).

 

It's not perfect, and there are a lot of things that will need to be fleshed out, but I think it's better than feeling the need to carry a gun in church or your kid's school.

 

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pacman

pacman 7359

Posted
Posted (edited)

Classic cajun, pissing all over the living room again. You do you.

He brought a shotgun. He didn't expect to live long or shoot many. That's my conjecture to answer yours.

My facts, he wanted to kill and was successful.

 

 

Edited by pacman
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

holy shit.

 

the guy sitting in the back reaching for his gun had to be one of the deaths...the second death was the shooter? 

apologies if this has already been covered in the thread (just got to your post), but it looks to me like the shooter kills himself. i count only three shots, all of which sound exactly the same, and it looks to me like the shooter turns the gun on himself after the first two kills. I don't see or hear any parishioners firing.

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Helobious

Helobious 9455

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

apologies if this has already been covered in the thread (just got to your post), but it looks to me like the shooter kills himself. i count only three shots, all of which sound exactly the same, and it looks to me like the shooter turns the gun on himself after the first two kills. I don't see or hear any parishioners firing.

I agree. He clearly shoots himself by aiming his shotgun towards a far wall in front of him and ricocheting a bullet into the side of his head, the same side facing the green-clad parishioner aiming a gun at him and miming the motion of firing a gun and having it recoil, complete with a muzzle flash from the blank he must have fired.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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Posted

ok i see him now. my eyesight ain't what it used to be. that was a helluva shot. also interesting to see how Joe Q Texan was able to keep his cool like that, firing one single shot at the active shooter without really endangering anyone else. meanwhile, your average cop pisses himself and unloads his entire clip any time a dog barks. but that's another discussion for a different thread. i'm mainly posting this to give credit to the guy who stopped the shooter. helluva job. 

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Rholl

Rholl 218

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

ok i see him now. my eyesight ain't what it used to be. that was a helluva shot. also interesting to see how Joe Q Texan was able to keep his cool like that, firing one single shot at the active shooter without really endangering anyone else. meanwhile, your average cop pisses himself and unloads his entire clip any time a dog barks. but that's another discussion for a different thread. i'm mainly posting this to give credit to the guy who stopped the shooter. helluva job. 

story is he is ex  LEO.... you know the same guys you just pissed all over.... but thats another discussion for a different thread I suppose!

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achooloco

achooloco 1072

Posted
Posted

Damn dude, why poke the bear? Thread doesn’t need more people trying to derail it. 

obviously good guy got the shot but I also saw the “muzzle” flash by the shit head just as he went down. What was that? Shooter accidentally shoot as He went down? Did the bullet that hit him, hit something else after? 

also, I’m assuming the two dudes in back were the casualties? RIP. Only ask cause of the flash at the end so not sure if someone got accidentally hit. 

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3368

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Th security ex FBI agent guard was a badass but wtf were the 8 other bozos gonna do running guns drawn 45 seconds after crouching? I don’t trust those good guys with guns at fucking all 

This is the general point I was trying to make yesterday and hopefully this post isn't cloaky.

I'd discussed this with my wife last night because she hadn't heard about it yet. Her immediate reaction (after the oh nos, how many?) was, "oh you would've shot that guy no question." It was the perfect time to reinforce restraint and responsibility (she wants a CCL, I've convinced her she's not ready) so I quickly replied, "not necessarily." 

My explanation was that the only way (from the video) I would've even drawn is if we were sitting in those top rows with the shooter. The only reason I'd consider firing is once he turned back towards the crowd. Any other situation in where we're seated, I'm getting my family down and/or out as soon as possible. Again the risk for something to go wrong is increasing with each action you take carrying a gun. 

To Zepol's point, most of those you see at the end pulling their gats out when the shooter has already been neutralized with at least 2 armed individuals approaching to ensure the threat is no more, those are not "good guys with guns." Those people are crash dummies that are trying to fulfill their one fantasy of the time they got to pull they 9 out, and shouldn't be allowed to carry. I can understand having it out pointed towards the ground in one hand, cell phone with 911 in the other, and keeping your head on a swivel for any other threats if you're a member of the church's security team. All that other shit is playing cowboy. 

 

 

TLDR-- not all of us who carry are Yosemite Sam or wannabe LEO/ military and know you need to "flight" at all costs before you consider a "fight."

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Pom

Pom 14

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

 

Absolutely -  Way too many things were perfect for it to be a lucky shot.  That guy trained and took it seriously. Text book...including what I am certain was him shooting high knowing he had good guys seated / scrambling in between him and his target.  No spray and pray there.

That's a hero.

Jack Wilson, President of On Target Firearms Academy took down the perp.

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jkates

jkates 316

Posted
Posted

Good job by the security team once the shooting started. 

My church has an obvious uniformed police presence on Sundays, along with additional plainclothes security folks. Many of the plainclothes are current LEO, some are former. We have a guy on staff who is former HPD Detective that runs security. Thank God for them.

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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10408

Posted
Posted
It's weird that the church has a security guard. 

I'm glad no more people were killed at the church.

 

I think a lot of small churches have a group of their parishioners carrying at each service. I was a bit disturbed when my old man said they have 4-5 guys “on patrol” at each service. They go to the range weekly and practice live-shooter drills at least once a month. To hear him describe it, they train like a mini-militia. Gotta admit, I rolled my eyes the first time I heard it, but I’ll say this vindicates them (at least in their eyes).

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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10408

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Made the above post before I saw the video. So it was a cop/security guard, not gun-totin parishioners. The CHL-bros didn't get a chance to make a difference. I'm sure it's safe to assume they eventually would have if the cop hadn't laid down one hell of a shot, but I gotta think there would've been some collateral damage if all those old dudes had started opening fire from across the room.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40850

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some of those “old dudes” most likely have more training and range time than your average cop..... and many may be ex-military.

It is a false assumption on the public’s part that most cops are highly trained gun guys, when that just isn’t the case for many of them. There are too many anecdotes of “highly trained” cops shooting innocent bystanders and/or spraying bullets everywhere without effect on the bad guys.

Edited to add: seems that the Catholic Churches in the Austin area have asked parishioners not to carry in church, as some of the parishes do have off duty security officers & rentacops on Sundays. I do know for a fact that some parishioners carry anyway.

Edited by Armybrat
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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Made the above post before I saw the video. So it was a cop/security guard, not gun-totin parishioners. The CHL-bros didn't get a chance to make a difference. I'm sure it's safe to assume they eventually would have if the cop hadn't laid down one hell of a shot, but I gotta think there would've been some collateral damage if all those old dudes had started opening fire from across the room.

It was an ex cop. He is one of the CHL-bros you so eloquently describe in your post. 

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Texas_Rocks

Texas_Rocks 346

Posted
Posted
If that security team had been made up of local police it would have a lot worse. A bunch of deputy dipshits would have killwd a dozen innocents.

Obviously tactically trained to some extent.

Can we recruit some of them for the APD?

 

Yeah, the fact that the good guy shooter didn’t unload his weapon really stood out. The average LEO would have one handed a full mag while flinching in a backpedal. No telling how many innocents would have been struck by errant rounds. LEOs would have been spraying the place relatively long after the shooter when down.

 

That old cop is a boss.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45971

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Some of those “old dudes” most likely have more training and range time than your average cop..... and many may be ex-military.

No doubt this is true for some of them.

That said, it seems to me that the video shows at least a couple of parishoners not exactly being careful with their drawn weapons.  Would you agree?

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Cajun

Cajun 11714

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Helobious said:

You know, I don’t think the guy that killed the shooter was concealed carrying. He pulled his gun right from a holster on his hip in plain sight. Amazing the shooter didn’t notice, or noticed but didn’t care about something like that.

The shooter was having to "notice" others brandishing weapons.

Ex LEO's opportunity was aided by the fact that he wasn't the only one in the room packin'.

Edited by Cajun
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