Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[C-Man 27,231]

5 hours ago, Newy25 said:

This is one of the deepest drafts we have seen in years. I’m assuming this played a big part in the decision to let some of these guys go. Witten, Heath and Cobb have little to no value on an NFL roster at this point. Any money spent signing them would have been a waste, IMO. I hope Dallas looks at trading down if one of these QBs fall and a GM foolishly trades up to get one. 

The Cowboys don't exactly knock drafts out of the park save for a couple year run that is getting further and further in the rearview mirror.

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

All that matters in the above are the guaranteed dollars. While 2 for 30mm is a little richer than what I was expecting it isn’t really egregious. Again our inability to even think about making an initial offer to Quinn has everything to do with our continued misevaluation of the market. We never handle our business early nor do we ever identify our priorities. I mean why the fuck are we signing Jaylen Smith and Jarwin a year early? Who gives a fuck about them?!? Handle your important business first. We wasted 3 of Byron Jones 5 years with the team playing a position he was ill suited for and now we gave up a great young player at a premium position of which we only got 40% utility out of.

Agree with you on most -- if not all -- of this. It's a 2-year deal for Quinn.

And losing Jones does not make this a better defense. He doesn't force turnovers but he also does a pretty good job locking up his receivers. But isn't he now the highest-paid CB in football? Yeah, I'm not really in on that. But he will not be easily replaced with a 6th round pick like Vic thinks.

[Genco 3,041]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

WR and RB are not the right positions to commit such large salary cap amounts on long-term contracts. 

 

 

The Cowboys throw the ball 60% of offensive snaps. They generate 69% of their offense throwing the ball. The NFL is a passing league and you don't think WR is a critical position to commit salary cap dollars to?

Agree to disagree.

[hundredTT 578]

So is Gerald McCoy good anymore? Big name, but haven’t followed his career like ever. 

[Lat22 4,015]

He was good on Hard Knocks.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

1 hour ago, hundredTT said:

So is Gerald McCoy good anymore? Big name, but haven’t followed his career like ever. 

I would imagine he’s still a lot better than any of the shit DTs we’ve rolled out throughout the Garrett era. But I honestly don’t know.

[Brew 3,049]

7 hours ago, C-Man said:

And losing Jones does not make this a better defense. He doesn't force turnovers but he also does a pretty good job locking up his receivers. But isn't he now the highest-paid CB in football? Yeah, I'm not really in on that. But he will not be easily replaced with a 6th round pick like Vic thinks.

Olumba has been on the PS for two years now. Hopefully he can step up and keep them from needing to rely on a 6th round pick

[futureman 22,488]

2 hours ago, hundredTT said:

So is Gerald McCoy good anymore? Big name, but haven’t followed his career like ever. 

not better than collins, anymore. 

[Radical Larry 28,645]

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

17 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

 

If he comes at a reasonable cost, he would be a fantastic slot replacement.  He can still play a little, not peak Denver years, but can still get it done.

3 hours ago, hundredTT said:

So is Gerald McCoy good anymore? Big name, but haven’t followed his career like ever. 

Once one of the top 5 at his position, now, he's still decent but not dynamic.  He also has a triceps? injury which keeps popping all the time.  I think it's a triceps, maybe it's a pectoral.

 

[Newy25 7,695]

11 hours ago, markstanco said:

 

 

Counting on 22 year old rookies huh? A lot of teams still playing in late january count on them being a big part of the plan.

It's all in on rebuild mode now. And looking at next years FAs it's getting worse before it gets better. FML as a cowboys life fan.

 

Are you seriously losing your shit because we let Witten, Heath and Cobb go? 

[Drew 2,494]

I know, the SAME idiots that were bitching about Witten playing too much, and Heath even playing at all, are now saying "The Cowboys are losing everyone!!!" which is stupid.

 

The Cowboys ALWAYS hit the 2nd wave of FA really well and get good players at positions of need for much better prices. They always find a sneaky good move like Quinn for a 5th.

They'll be fine.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

14 minutes ago, Drew said:

I know, the SAME idiots that were bitching about Witten playing too much, and Heath even playing at all, are now saying "The Cowboys are losing everyone!!!" which is stupid.

 

The Cowboys ALWAYS hit the 2nd wave of FA really well and get good players at positions of need for much better prices. They always find a sneaky good move like Quinn for a 5th.

They'll be fine.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say they always hit on their 2nd wave free agent signings. They typically hit on 1 of them, with last year being the exception with Cobb and if you count Quinn (who was actually acquired by trade). Usually most of the guys we pickup are bums who are even at times cut before the end of the season. We didn’t have lowest payroll by far over the last 4 years without effort.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[Drew 2,494]

3 hours ago, futureman said:

not better than collins, anymore. 

Not even close to correct, though not surprised.  He's definitely not a Top 5 DT anymore, but he was very good still as year.

['stache 21,821]

The only one in that group I'll really miss is Cobb. I hope we use Jarwin more for those types of inside routes. Would be nice to get Emmanuel Sanders for the slot too. Defense is scaring me. I'm not sure Jones and Quinn were worth what others paid, but I hope we can find competent replacements with potential to be really good.

[Drew 2,494]

1 minute ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I wouldn’t go so far as to say they always hit on their 2nd wave free agent signings. They typically hit on 1 of them, with last year being the exception with Cobb and if you count Quinn (who was actually acquired by trade). Usually most of the guys we pickup are bums who are even at times cut before the end of the season. 

A lot of their depth comes from the 2nd wave of FA.  I'm not saying huge impact guys like Cobb was.  They seemingly find a few guys who end up as their 4th CB or 3rd LB or Swing Back Up tackle in the 2nd wave.  

[markstanco 12,577]

3 hours ago, Newy25 said:

Are you seriously losing your shit because we let Witten, Heath and Cobb go? 

Point out where I said that.  I'll hang up and listen.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

3 hours ago, Drew said:

A lot of their depth comes from the 2nd wave of FA.  I'm not saying huge impact guys like Cobb was.  They seemingly find a few guys who end up as their 4th CB or 3rd LB or Swing Back Up tackle in the 2nd wave.  

That’s true, but we need to replace a shitload number of starters this offseason so signing backup level free agents won’t suffice.

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

SSS.... so be careful, but probably replaces Brown.

We also resigned Forbath..... Don't care enough to link to a kicker signing

[gsoda3 3,263]

Byron Jones is going to be a huge loss. He's one of the best CBs in the league right now. That some of you can't see that and even think he was a net negative blows my mind.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

19 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Byron Jones is going to be a huge loss. He's one of the best CBs in the league right now. That some of you can't see that and even think he was a net negative blows my mind.

He’s definitely a really good corner, but we were never going to make him the highest paid corner in the league. Plus, it’ll be interesting to see what he looks like in Miami under Brian Flores. They have Howard on the other side, so he’ll definitely get more balls thrown his way. It’s hard to really evaluate him when he sticks to one side of the field and teams just pepper Chido and Jourdan Lewis (mainly chido). Not that there’s anything wrong with sticking to one side, but it’s a fact that teams would just say “ok, well let’s just throw to chido’s side”.

I think Quinn is the bigger loss. We aren’t finding someone at 17 or later that’s going to get us 10+ sacks and have the best pass rush win rate in the league.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

36 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

SSS.... so be careful, but probably replaces Brown.

 

[kopp0e 1,135]

18 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

 

Gerald McCoy just had his son tweet he plans to attend his dadś alma matter, so this is a double dip deal for him.?!

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

24 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

 

Or not.... maybe we're gonna try Lewis as a starter then.  idk.  Can't have too many good corners!

[jeevsie 3,734]

From a fan perspective, man it will suck to see Witten in another jersey.  Same as Emmitt.

Football-wise, he had to go.  Same with Heath.

No way you can justify paying Jones that $$. He had to walk.

Quinn would have been nice, but let's see where else they spend.

McCoy? Hope he still has some tread.

Coop gets the big splash this offseason. (Dak too, at some point). Not going to be a lot of money left for any big FA.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

The problem with losing Jones is this could've been handled earlier with much less money, be it by signing him a year or 2 ago, or managing the rest of your roster in away that allows you to franchise him. Of course a team would have to possess foresight and a coherent overarching plan to do such a thing. A team that in one year (2015) claims that they dont need a high profile RB due to their allpro Oline and then in the following year (2016) drafts a RB with the 4th pick probably isnt capable of such a thing.  

[Newy25 7,695]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

Byron Jones is going to be a huge loss. He's one of the best CBs in the league right now. That some of you can't see that and even think he was a net negative blows my mind.

If by one of the best you mean the 17th best out of approximately 60-70, then yes he is one of the best. It just becomes a question of is he worth the money? Obviously one team thought he was.
 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-rankings-top-25-cornerbacks-through-week-17

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

Obviously the guarantees matter so this may not be a bad deal after getting the details, but over 5 million AAV for a guy who got benched last year before getting an injury is fucking weird.  He's terrible on the boundary so he really only play the slot.  This is a weird one.

 

[DougO 5,250]

11 hours ago, hundredTT said:

So is Gerald McCoy good anymore? Big name, but haven’t followed his career like ever. 

He's still pretty good, but not likely the great player he once was. However, he is scheme versatile, going from 3-tech to 5 tech during his career, so he is a transitional player that fits what the new regime is looking to do with their defense. He can be used a couple of different ways. That's most likely a big reason why he's here and Quinn and Collins are gone. Should still have some gas in the tank at 32, while they look to build the D-line  they want through the draft.

 

[markstanco 12,577]

Byron Jones is going to be a huge loss. He's one of the best CBs in the league right now. That some of you can't see that and even think he was a net negative blows my mind.

I click on this thread maybe every 4 or 5 days in the off season. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call out the moron(s) who said this. He is an excellent corner. He did have issues in year 1 and 2, but who doesnt not named everson walls and the likes (I'm old)

 

On edit..walls had what, like 9 INTs his rookie season back in 81 or so? And I think he was from a SWAC school as well which arent thought much of in the nfl. Crazy lucky on that pick unless he was a UFA

[futureman 22,488]

13 minutes ago, markstanco said:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call out the moron(s) who said this.

I’ll give you a hint: he fucks mexican whales. 

[markstanco 12,577]

I’ll give you a hint: he fucks mexican whales. 

No way vic said that.

[Pato del Muerto 52,529]

5 hours ago, markstanco said:

I click on this thread maybe every 4 or 5 days in the off season. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call out the moron(s) who said this. He is an excellent corner. He did have issues in year 1 and 2, but who doesnt not named everson walls and the likes (I'm old)

 

On edit..walls had what, like 9 INTs his rookie season back in 81 or so? And I think he was from a SWAC school as well which arent thought much of in the nfl. Crazy lucky on that pick unless he was a UFA

12 rounds back then, much fewer ufas. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

As a guy who wants to the Cowboys to resign Dak this is the scary part about the other side of the coin. 

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

This seems cheap.... I guess we spent our positional load on McCoy.  Would have liked to kick the tires here.  1/3.5m.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,917]

42 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

As a guy who wants to the Cowboys to resign Dak this is the scary part about the other side of the coin. 

 

 

Rams are/were sort of a cautionary tale for teams specifically the Cowboys.  They basically went all in on last year and were passed in their own division.  With little financial flexibility, they have to cut salary.  They signed their RB to a huge deal... he broke down and will be cut.  They confused their QB for being elite.... he's a bus driver (which isn't a biting criticism) and they signed their WR to a big extension.... they're now shopping him.  There are differences, of course, namely their OL, but can't help but be concerned that Zeke deal is really going to be regrettable.

 

[C-Man 27,231]

21 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

SSS.... so be careful, but probably replaces Brown.

We also resigned Forbath..... Don't care enough to link to a kicker signing

Re-signed Forbath? Jesus. He's shitty. I don't care what he did for us in the final few games. God please let him have some competition in camp.

[jeevsie 3,734]

Couple more years, maybe this guy will have a star on his helmet.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

50 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Re-signed Forbath? Jesus. He's shitty. I don't care what he did for us in the final few games. God please let him have some competition in camp.

I don’t mind it again all. Throughout his career, when he’s on he’s automatic inside of 50. All these kickers are the same. They get a change of scenery and make their first couple of kicks, and boom. They have confidence. That’s what he did last year and went 10/10 with us. But you’re right. Bring in another guy that you think could actually push to be your everyday kicker. Don’t just bring in some tomato can, assuming you have the Forbath that you had last year at the end of the year.

[Drew 2,494]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Rams are/were sort of a cautionary tale for teams specifically the Cowboys.  They basically went all in on last year and were passed in their own division.  With little financial flexibility, they have to cut salary.  They signed their RB to a huge deal... he broke down and will be cut.  They confused their QB for being elite.... he's a bus driver (which isn't a biting criticism) and they signed their WR to a big extension.... they're now shopping him.  There are differences, of course, namely their OL, but can't help but be concerned that Zeke deal is really going to be regrettable.

 

True.  But I don't for see some big drop off from Zeke in the next year or 2.  Make it to 2022 with him, and after that the money isn't bad compared to the cap hits and they can make a decision.  He'll still be on the right side of 29 or so.

[C-Man 27,231]

13 minutes ago, Drew said:

True.  But I don't for see some big drop off from Zeke in the next year or 2.  Make it to 2022 with him, and after that the money isn't bad compared to the cap hits and they can make a decision.  He'll still be on the right side of 29 or so.

(Knocking on wood) Zeke appears to be more durable. Gurley was hurt in college and now appears to be completely broken down. That was a bad, bad gamble on the Rams part.

[Vic Mackey 47,088]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Rams are/were sort of a cautionary tale for teams specifically the Cowboys.  They basically went all in on last year and were passed in their own division.  With little financial flexibility, they have to cut salary.  They signed their RB to a huge deal... he broke down and will be cut.  They confused their QB for being elite.... he's a bus driver (which isn't a biting criticism) and they signed their WR to a big extension.... they're now shopping him.  There are differences, of course, namely their OL, but can't help but be concerned that Zeke deal is really going to be regrettable.

 

Zeke is not broke down He could fall off but it is not the same to Gurley at all. Dude has been injury prone since college and his injuries has caught up to him and it made his ability dwindle. Zeke is not. The only thing that kept him out was his suspension.

I have no real worries about the offense. All my worries are coaching/defense/special teams. We have taken steps to address the coaching. Now let's see if the defense/special teams improve. I don't care if you have the greatest offense ever, it will fail in the end when it gets zero help from the other 2 phases. This team will improve dramatically if we sure up special teams and the defense just becomes average.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Vic Mackey

[Catdaddyhorn 3,446]

Yeah I forsee Zeke's falloff as being more gradual than Gurley's Wile E. Coyote fall off a cliff in a year's time. 

[Sgt Hulk 13,788]

dallas always does amazing in free agency and this year was no exception. 

[Mileslong 4,728]

Byron Jones is going to be a huge loss. He's one of the best CBs in the league right now. That some of you can't see that and even think he was a net negative blows my mind.

He’s pretty good but no where near being the best which he is now paid like. Also, turnovers area huge thing. I have tons of stats which back that up.

You can’t be negative in turnover margin and make the playoffs. Not one team did last year.

Also if you take the top 20 defenses, 16 of them had positive turnover ratio.

So if you have a player or a defense that doesn’t create turnovers they aren’t nearly as valuable as you think. Jones disciples say that he was only burned deep four times last year, well they only threw deep on him like 20 times last year.

They didn’t throw much to his side not because he some deon lockdown corner but rather the other side was so weak that side was always open.

He’s a good corner but not great and he is now laid like he’s the best, no thank you.

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

No where near the top is pretty dumb.  I'm fine agreeing that he's not the best corner in the league, but he's certainly near the top.  Unless you rank corners simply on interceptions.

Every team in the league would sign Byron Jones.  Maybe not at that high of a dollar figure, but they'd gladly take his corner skills and lack of interceptions.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Gene Parmesan

[futureman 22,488]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

But I don't for see some big drop off from Zeke in the next year or 2. 

you mean aside from the drop off we've already seen?

[DougO 5,250]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Re-signed Forbath? Jesus. He's shitty. I don't care what he did for us in the final few games. God please let him have some competition in camp.

He will. But he was pretty good last season, and they have him if all else fails.

[DougO 5,250]

Jones was pretty good, not great, above average. They have a couple of serviceable corners to start with, likely will draft /acquire more. But when building a new defense with a new regime they have to rebuild with the resources they have rather than throwing big money at an above-average corner. A play-making safety would be nice at some point, something they have lacked for a couple of decades. But a better pass rush and pocket disrupting penetration will make servicable corners look a lot better. Hopefully, the new bunch has some of that in mind.

I wouldn't be shocked to see them try to lure Clay Matthews as a situational rusher at the right price.

[C-Man 27,231]

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

dallas always does amazing in free agency and this year was no exception. 

[LTtxfan 49,274]

In a year or two, will this be Zeke's fate??

 

Edit:  Sorry I missed this discussion above by @Patrick Bateman   @Drew and    @Vic Mackey

Edited March 20, 2020 by LTtxfan