Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Sgt Hulk 13791]

35M a year for a position that I’d sneezed in draws a flag. Is in a protective cocoon bubble and likely never breaks a sweat.  Jesus 

[Sgt Hulk 13791]

He’s also a douchebag. My 13 year old asked him for a selfie at camp last year and he was kind of a dick about it 

[futureman 22490]

1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

He’s also a douchebag.

and a fucking moron.  such a worthless spare.

[Vic Mackey 47088]

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Off topic, but it really blows me away that the eagles didn’t at least inquire about Hopkins. Every team needs a Hopkins, but he’s exactly what they need to make that offense dangerous. The idea that the Texans were looking to trade Hopkins wasn’t exactly shocking, so I wonder if they just weren’t willing to give up a first. Either way, that one makes no sense to me. 

[C-Man 27233]

23 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I was sort of kidding when I posted that.  Greg Z has a big leg but I don't know if I would call him the best available kicker. And there is not much in his sample size which says he's better than Bailey.  Kickers are weird guys but ST coaches tend to fall in love with their guys and maybe he can get Greg back to his 18' season when he probably was the best kicker in the league (38-40 FGM with 6-7 over 50).  But aside from a couple of years, he's a big legged kicker who's accuracy is average at best.  82% FGM percentage with 4 seasons (out of 8.) at 80% or less.   To give you an idea 80% would have tied him as the 20th most accurate kicker.  His career average would have put him at 19th last year.  Even when Bailey got squirrely, his accuracy was 75%.  Greg Z has 2 seasons worse than that including last season.  He probably would have been cut except the Rams used some good draft capital on him initially so stuck with him and then in McVay's first year, Z had his career year.  What does all that mean?  Not a whole lot except he's a league average kicker who will definitely help us in touchbacks and field position so that's a big positive. Big leg, below average accuracy, but is liked by our ST coach.  Kickers are weird birds.... he could be great or we could cut him 5 games in. 2.5 million is a lot of the flip of a coin though but doubt a lot is guaranteed.

Just use a late-round pick to take one of the top couple of kickers in CFB. It's not like the Cowboys will hit on a positional player that late in a draft. That's probably Rodrigo Blankenship out of Georgia this year.

[Hate 20116]

This draft is incredibly deep with WRs. They can draft someone and pay them the rookie deal $$ for 4 years. Now, will that rookie be as immediately impactful as Hopkins? That’s not likely, but they can get close enough production from a rookie they don’t have to pay as much.

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Off topic, but it really blows me away that the eagles didn’t at least inquire about Hopkins. Every team needs a Hopkins, but he’s exactly what they need to make that offense dangerous. The idea that the Texans were looking to trade Hopkins wasn’t exactly shocking, so I wonder if they just weren’t willing to give up a first. Either way, that one makes no sense to me. 

Jeffery's deal made it difficult to trade for Hopkins and then extend him (which is what Arizona will do).  Wentz's deal becomes expensive next year and Jeffery would have been 26m in dead cap money if cut this year.  They also will probably extend Ertz this year although if they were smart and believed in Goedert, they'd let him move on in 2021.  Eagles probably think that if they can just get healthy (Jeffery, DJax) and JJAW takes a step forward, they have enough in the passing game to easily defend the division

 

[Drew 2495]

On 3/28/2020 at 3:39 PM, DougO said:

They may not even play double-digit games this season. You never know.

Ok, now we we're talking.

[Newy25 7695]

4 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

 

What kind of salary for Dak does this assume? 

 

Edit: Never mind. $31.6M

Edited March 30, 2020 by Newy25

[Bone3421 716]

Any interest in a cheap deal for Kirkpatrick...
I would like that move for depth and cover if we also draft a cb

[Junior Miller 1502]

On 3/27/2020 at 8:31 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Please don't bring logic into this! Not allowed for many. Russell Wilson right now in per year salary, is the highest paid QB at $35million. But Matt Ryan has the most guaranteed money of any player. Wentz is at $32. Dak was going to get more than him and deservedly so. He's put in way more work than Wentz. People get way too caught up in these labels of "highest paid player!!!!: That shit lasts a year. Stafford and Derek Carr were once the highest paid players. And now look. Who fucking cares. The QB market is skyrocketing. The salary cap will keep rising. People have no concept of this at all. 

Ryan, Wentz, Stafford, Carr, and even Wilson...

What are QBs who don't win shit once they get overpaid. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

19 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Ryan, Wentz, Stafford, Carr, and even Wilson...

What are QBs who don't win shit once they get overpaid. 

I agree that I don’t want to pay Dak what he wants, but this is a bad example (ESPECIALLY Wilson). When you say haven’t won shit, what exactly do you mean? Because if you’re talking Super Bowls, how many different qbs have even won a super bowl?

Wentz proved he was worth that contract last year and in his 2nd year. Matt Ryan was an MVP. Stafford and Carr definitely shouldn’t have gotten the money they got, and I feel like both are firmly in Dak’s tier. Stafford is a lot better IMO, but he’s never had a running game or an offensive line like Dak has. We’re heading in that direction pretty soon, so we’ll see if I’m right or not. Plus, he’s played his entire career for an organization that has to be in the discussion for least competent in all of sports. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[futureman 22490]

5 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Stafford is a lot better IMO,

stafford is light years better than dak.  if those two switch teams stafford is an MVP and dak is a candidate for a backup job in the XFL. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

54 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I agree that I don’t want to pay Dak what he wants, but this is a bad example (ESPECIALLY Wilson). When you say haven’t won shit, what exactly do you mean? Because if you’re talking Super Bowls, how many different qbs have even won a super bowl?

Wentz proved he was worth that contract last year and in his 2nd year. Matt Ryan was an MVP. Stafford and Carr definitely shouldn’t have gotten the money they got, and I feel like both are firmly in Dak’s tier. Stafford is a lot better IMO, but he’s never had a running game or an offensive line like Dak has. We’re heading in that direction pretty soon, so we’ll see if I’m right or not. Plus, he’s played his entire career for an organization that has to be in the discussion for least competent in all of sports. 

Wilson is a much better QB than Dak (and all the rest on there) but his team isn't even on the level to compete for the title once he got paid. They're a fringe playoff team. It takes a special GM and special QB to overcome having that much salary tied into one player. When Wentz was cheap his backup was able to lead the team to a title. Now that he got paid they won't win shit unless the GM strikes gold and puts a monster team of young underpaid draft picks together. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Junior Miller

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

stafford is light years better than dak.  if those two switch teams stafford is an MVP and dak is a candidate for a backup job in the XFL. 

I don’t agree with the bolded part, but i definitely agree with your point on stafford. If he had a situation like Dak, he’s probably a top 5 qb. 

26 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Wilson is a much better QB than Dak (and all the rest on there) but his team isn't even on the level to compete for the title once he got paid. They're a fringe playoff team. It takes a special GM and special QB to overcome having that much salary tied into one player. When Wentz was cheap his backup was able to lead the team to a title. Now that he got paid they won't win shit unless the GM strikes gold and puts a monster team of young underpaid draft picks together. 

Again, I kind of agree with your point, but they were literally a goal line stand against SF away from having a first rd bye last year. Or at least that’s how i remember it. Something along those lines. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Drew 2495]

Yep, the idiocy continues to show. 

Stafford is a good QB.  Dak is many years younger and has already proved more than he has, and has only been in a competent modern offense for like1.5 years of it.

 

But keep on.  If I wasn't such a fan of the Cowboys and wanted them to do well, I'd HOPE for the Cowboys to just throw Dak on the trash heap and let him go win titles with another team.  Would serve this horrible fan base right.  Ya'll trashed Romo every game for 5 years, and now are doing the same thing to Dak.  You guys wouldn't know a good QB if he WAS winning SB's here.

[tokamak 6432]

27 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Wilson is a much better QB than Dak (and all the rest on there) but his team isn't even on the level to compete for the title once he got paid. They're a fringe playoff team. It takes a special GM and special QB to overcome having that much salary tied into one player. When Wentz was cheap his backup was able to lead the team to a title. Now that he got paid they won't win shit unless the GM strikes gold and puts a monster team of young underpaid draft picks together. 

I think your point is a pretty fair one but Jimmy G is on a monster deal and the 49ers still did alright last year. But there's no doubt that having your QB go from making $600k to $35m makes things a lot harder. I wonder if we'll ever see a team let a promising young QB walk after his rookie deal? The fans would absolutely crucify whoever did it.

[Hate 20116]

Again, I kind of agree with your point, but they were literally a goal line stand against SF away from having a first rd bye last year. Or at least that’s how i remember it. Something along those lines. 

This is correct. They would have had a bye and home field in the second round. Russell Wilson will go into the HOF one day while Dak will be able to visit it if he buys a ticket.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

21 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yep, the idiocy continues to show. 

Stafford is a good QB.  Dak is many years younger and has already proved more than he has, and has only been in a competent modern offense for like1.5 years of it.

 

But keep on.  If I wasn't such a fan of the Cowboys and wanted them to do well, I'd HOPE for the Cowboys to just throw Dak on the trash heap and let him go win titles with another team.  Would serve this horrible fan base right.  Ya'll trashed Romo every game for 5 years, and now are doing the same thing to Dak.  You guys wouldn't know a good QB if he WAS winning SB's here.

Go ahead and name the best running back Stafford has played with in his career. Then go look at how his offensive lines have rated throughout his career. Then compare that to Dak who has had a the leagues leading rusher for 2 of his 4 years, and a top rated offensive line for his entire career. You can’t even objectively compare the two players because of how drastically different their situations have been. Stafford was having a borderline MVP caliber season before he got hurt last year. With no running game, offensive line, or competent defense. If they switched teams, and Dak had to play with guys like javid best, Reggie Bush throughout his career, you would think Stafford  is light years better than Dak. Your judgment of Stafford is clouded by a truly incompetent franchise. Maybe even more incompetent than Cleveland and Washington

[Junior Miller 1502]

1 hour ago, tokamak said:

I think your point is a pretty fair one but Jimmy G is on a monster deal and the 49ers still did alright last year. But there's no doubt that having your QB go from making $600k to $35m makes things a lot harder. I wonder if we'll ever see a team let a promising young QB walk after his rookie deal? The fans would absolutely crucify whoever did it.

They did but that was mostly with my second point where the GM put an absolute murderers row of rookie contract defensive talent together. In the end though it was their overpaid quarterback that killed them. 

I'm beginning to wonder if the NFL has it completely backwards. where QB shouldn't be paid much unless they show they are top three or four in the entire league level. So you're Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes level QBs should get the money but anything lower than that should get contracts that allow the team to spend in free agency to build a competitive team around him. I wonder if in the future the NFL will come to that realization that it's better to be bad and draft a QB every year while building a solid team around the QB position and just change them out for a rookie deal one until you hit a top-level guy. Or build such a strong team around a mediocre quarterback that you can contend for a title anyway. 

It just seems like paying a good-but-not-great level QB a ton of money makes it virtually impossible to then build a monster team around the QB position. And you need at least a great QB or a great team around the QB position to win a title. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Junior Miller

[Hate 20116]

But that’s the problem we already see in Dak. He’s not special, but the QB “market” dictates that he is paid like he is. It’s ridiculous.

[Junior Miller 1502]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

But that’s the problem we already see in Dak. He’s not special, but the QB “market” dictates that he is paid like he is. It’s ridiculous.

It's definitely what the NFL current model says to do, but all of the evidence seems to point to that model of paying a good quarterback elite money just because everyone else does actually hinders your ability to compete for a title. 

I'd really like to see a team try just constantly going to rookie deal quarterbacks until they can build up a contending team around one or hit on an actual elite one. 

[Junior Miller 1502]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

One benefit of not living in Dallas would be that I wouldn’t frequent threads that Junior and Drew go to. Their opinions are terrible, simple and retarded. Or in the case of Junior meant to be so contrarian that they’re inflammatory. 

Amazing how it's the idiot who never has an idea worth a shit who always tears down those who do. You should change your name again but this time to "surly's trump"

Edited April 1, 2020 by Junior Miller

[C-Man 27233]

23 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Ryan, Wentz, Stafford, Carr, and even Wilson...

What are QBs who don't win shit once they get overpaid. 

Ryan has played in a Super Bowl -- should've won it. Wilson has been in two -- should have two rings. They're difference makers. They're elite.

2 hours ago, Drew said:

Yep, the idiocy continues to show. 

Stafford is a good QB.  Dak is many years younger and has already proved more than he has, and has only been in a competent modern offense for like1.5 years of it.

 

But keep on.  If I wasn't such a fan of the Cowboys and wanted them to do well, I'd HOPE for the Cowboys to just throw Dak on the trash heap and let him go win titles with another team.  Would serve this horrible fan base right.  Ya'll trashed Romo every game for 5 years, and now are doing the same thing to Dak.  You guys wouldn't know a good QB if he WAS winning SB's here.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Dak is winning titles elsewhere? C'mon man. He couldn't even win a dog-shit NFC East last year. Romo is miles ahead of Dak at this point.

30 minutes ago, Hate said:

But that’s the problem we already see in Dak. He’s not special, but the QB “market” dictates that he is paid like he is. It’s ridiculous.

Exactly. You can pay a QB elite money -- if he's elite. Dak is not elite. He's average who sometimes plays at an above-average level. Once a year he's elite level. Maybe.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I’ll give him more than once a year where he’s elite, but for every game where he’s elite, he has a complete dog shit game like he had against the bears, bills, and eagles. It’s been like that every year since his rookie year. And don’t give me the stats. Last years offensive stats were so fucking misleading across the board. For the entire team, but mainly Dak. There are a lot of qbs in the league that could put up similar numbers to Dak if given our weapons. 
 

I say this, but my opinion would clearly change if Dak was a little more willing as a runner. It would open everything else up, and he would probably be borderline elite. He just doesn’t do it, and there’s no evidence of that changing.  Especially not as he gets older. He isn’t prime MVP Cam or anything, but he could definitely be a poor mans version. But we know that isn’t sustainable if he wants to stay healthy. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[futureman 22490]

2 hours ago, Drew said:

Yep, the idiocy continues to show. 

Stafford is a good QB.  Dak is many years younger and has already proved more than he has, and has only been in a competent modern offense for like1.5 years of it.

 

But keep on.  If I wasn't such a fan of the Cowboys and wanted them to do well, I'd HOPE for the Cowboys to just throw Dak on the trash heap and let him go win titles with another team.  Would serve this horrible fan base right.  Ya'll trashed Romo every game for 5 years, and now are doing the same thing to Dak.  You guys wouldn't know a good QB if he WAS winning SB's here.

the fact that you are trying to objectively say that dak is better than stafford can only be the result of an attempt at trolling.  not your style, drew.  your style is unbridled idiocy.

and as everyone knows I shit on dak more than anybody, but I loved romo.  one of the biggest reasons I hate dak is that he cost us a championship in 2016.  if romo comes back healthy with that team we don't lose to anyone.

[futureman 22490]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Stafford was having a borderline MVP caliber season before he got hurt last year. With no running game, offensive line, or competent defense.

yes.  with a supporting cast of nothing, stafford was playing at an elite level last year, far beyond anything dak will ever be capable of at anytime in his miserable, overrated existence.  all dak will accomplish in his career is stealing money from the jones family and stealing joy from millions of cowboys fans all over the world.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, futureman said:

yes.  with a supporting cast of nothing, stafford was playing at an elite level last year, far beyond anything dak will ever be capable of at anytime in his miserable, overrated existence.  all dak will accomplish in his career is stealing money from the jones family and stealing joy from millions of cowboys fans all over the world.

Kenny Goladay and Marvin Jones definitely aren’t “nothing” but your bolded point still stands for the most part. And the Lions were playing well at the beginning of the season because he was putting the team on his back. Injuries (mainly Stafford) and the refs derailed their season.

Edited April 1, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[futureman 22490]

15 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Kenny Goladay and Marvin Jones definitely aren’t “nothing” 

they both benefit from having a great quarterback with an elite arm.  neither of them are in the same category as amari cooper.  if amari plays with stafford he approaches 2,000 receiving yards.  if golladay plays with dak he gets about 600.

[Newy25 7695]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

But that’s the problem we already see in Dak. He’s not special, but the QB “market” dictates that he is paid like he is. It’s ridiculous.

I do not know why you listed “market” in quotes. It’s the perfect example of supply and demand. List all of the available free agent QB options Dallas has that they could sign that are better than Dak. It won’t take you long. 

[futureman 22490]

6 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I do not know why you listed “market” in quotes. It’s the perfect example of supply and demand. List all of the available free agent QB options Dallas has that they could sign that are better than Dak. It won’t take you long. 

tannehill, bridgewater, and brady, for starters.  of course smarter GMs already signed them.  ryan fitzpatrick is probably acquirable via trade.  foles was on the trading block.  there are plenty of others, because dak is an overrated shit quarterback.

[Vic Mackey 47088]

I have liked the approach this offseason for the most part. Starting with replacing Garrett and Marinelli and others. Letting Witten walk. Letting Byron walk. Should have let Lee walk, too but oh well. Slowly start undoing the toxins that Garrett injected this team with.

 

[futureman 22490]

36 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Letting Byron walk.

you’re such a dipshit. 

[Horny Bull 2760]

 

[futureman 22490]

oh hell yeah

[futureman 22490]

wait, aldon smith sober?  gotta be april fool’s. 

[Hate 20116]

Nothing like signing someone who hasn’t been in the field in 4 years. I’m sure he’ll light up the league.

[Horny Bull 2760]

5 minutes ago, Hate said:

Nothing like signing someone who hasn’t been in the field in 4 years. I’m sure he’ll light up the league.

At least there’s this:

 

[Hate 20116]

Yes, that’s definitely the silver lining of the deal. I hope it works out. I hope he truly has gotten his life back together. I know JJ loves reclamation projects more than anyone, so he will have every chance to succeed if he takes advantage of his opportunity. I hope he does.

[Hate 20116]

I do not know why you listed “market” in quotes. It’s the perfect example of supply and demand. List all of the available free agent QB options Dallas has that they could sign that are better than Dak. It won’t take you long. 

Andy Dalton is at least as good as Dak. He would have been a lot cheaper.

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

6 hours ago, Hate said:

But that’s the problem we already see in Dak. He’s not special, but the QB “market” dictates that he is paid like he is. It’s ridiculous.

So you're hating the playa..... not the game?

 

54 minutes ago, Horny Bull said:

 

I hope he's gotten his life together and he continues on with his sobriety.  Be a good redemption story but considering it's been 4 years, I'll expect nothing from him. If he can be a contributor then great.

This is a Tomsula signing.... just like we used to let Marinelli dictate personnel on the line.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Newy25 7695]

18 minutes ago, Hate said:

Andy Dalton is at least as good as Dak. He would have been a lot cheaper.

I strongly disagree with the idea that Dalton is better than Dak. That guy was hot garbage last year in the games I saw. 

[Hate 20116]

Cheaper and not any worse. Look at the roster the Bengals had. It’s a miracle they won 2 games.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

The Patriots winning 32% of the last 19 SBs with Brady's below market deals kinda skews the overall numbers for winning and QB pay. I don't think it's going to be a factor at all with the rising cap and not having to contend with Brady and Belichick. Unless they keep winning I suppose.....

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

Him and Gregory can be AA accountability buddies. 

[Genco 3041]

7 minutes ago, Hate said:

Cheaper and not any worse. Look at the roster the Bengals had. It’s a miracle they won 2 games.

Now Drew will be compelled to respond.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

I have liked the approach this offseason for the most part. Starting with replacing Garrett and Marinelli and others. Letting Witten walk. Letting Byron walk. Should have let Lee walk, too but oh well. Slowly start undoing the toxins that Garrett injected this team with.

 

This wasn't a sports article written by a journalist, it was a play by play of the writer sucking McCarthy's balls. 

He's made some decent moves so far, but my god, there has been no "coup de grace before the actual coup de grace". 

[Vic Mackey 47088]

The Aldon Smith signing reminds me of the Hardy singing in 2015. Low risk. Not a lot of money. He will definitely be an asset if he pans out. At least they are addressing their weak defense and that it needs help.

[C-Man 27233]

The Aldon Smith signing reminds me of the Hardy singing in 2015. Low risk. Not a lot of money. He will definitely be an asset if he pans out. At least they are addressing their weak defense and that it needs help.

The Hardy signing worked out so well.