Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Newy25 7703]

The lack of nuance is just par for the course, I guess. Anyone saying "Romo sucks!" because he did not match Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees in playoff success sounds about as sophisticated as the person saying "Dak sucks!" despite going for 4,900 yards with 30:11 touchdowns to interceptions.  Dallas had the second best offense in the NFL in adjusted stats and the 19th ranked defense and the 27th ranked special teams. Anyone laying a majority of the blame on the offense or blaming our QB for the lack of overall season success is seriously misguided. 

It's a worthwhile discussion if Dak is good enough to commit to a big contract or if Dallas should go the Andy Dalton/Nick Foles route at the position for less money but the "Dak sucks we went 8-8 because o him!" talk is fucking stupid. 

 

[Hate 20128]

Well, whenever anyone argues that the Dak apologists get all uppity. It’s what I’ve been arguing this whole time.

[futureman 22507]

31 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

"Dak sucks we went 8-8 because o him!" talk is fucking stupid. 

we had a good roster and a reasonable schedule in 2019.  any quarterback who doesn't suck and crater to pressure would have been able to make the playoffs in the worst division in football.  dak could not do it.  he's not an elite quarterback.  he's not even a good quarterback. 

[Drew 2499]

My problem has always been not only the stupidity of the "Dak sucks" crowd, but the nearly as bad "Dak is just average" folks as well.  There's little difference.  He's obviously WELL above average and Top 10 QB today.

Now if you want to say he's not good enough to win a SB...sure, I guess?  I mean there have been WAY worse QB's that have won superbowls to say he can't win it, but okay.  

I also think it's asinine to sit here and say, after 4 years, the dude is maxed out...like he'll never be any better(and he was GREAT last year), especially since almost all of us were universal in our hate of Garret, Linehan before him, and their entire offensive philosophy(even last year, where it was clear they were still beholden to the older style of offense).

We've seen so much from Dak to show that he does have what it takes to even take another jump...but people are so blinded by their hatred, and listen to so many talking heads and twitter media blow hards, that they think they know more than anyone else about what Dak is or isn't.

 

 

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

58 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

The lack of nuance is just par for the course, I guess. Anyone saying "Romo sucks!" because he did not match Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees in playoff success sounds about as sophisticated as the person saying "Dak sucks!" despite going for 4,900 yards with 30:11 touchdowns to interceptions.  Dallas had the second best offense in the NFL in adjusted stats and the 19th ranked defense and the 27th ranked special teams. Anyone laying a majority of the blame on the offense or blaming our QB for the lack of overall season success is seriously misguided. 

It's a worthwhile discussion if Dak is good enough to commit to a big contract or if Dallas should go the Andy Dalton/Nick Foles route at the position for less money but the "Dak sucks we went 8-8 because o him!" talk is fucking stupid. 

 

I can’t believe we’re rehashing this, but let’s do it. Find me a single poster not named futureman in this thread that is saying this. A single one. Maybe I just haven’t kept up with the thread as closely as you, but that is a ridiculous take. Nobody is saying that. We’re about to make a guy who is pretty good sometimes the highest paid player in the league because “that’s what the market/stupid teams dictate. They force your hand into signing a guy who may or may not develop into anything more than he is, and you’re going to make him the highest paid player in the league.
 

“But in 2 or 3 years it’s going to seem like a bargain when guys like Watson and Mahomes get paid.” No the fuck he isn’t. Those guys are elite. You know who’s going to look like a bargain in 2 or 3 years. Carson Wentz. A guy who, even through injuries (both his and his WRs) has shown an ability to play like an elite talent. 4yr/$128mil ($32 mil a year) with $66.5mil guaranteed. That will be a fucking steal compared to what Dak is about to get. If both guys were healthy, there isn’t a single gm in the league that would take Dak over wentz. Including jerruh. And I get Dak hasn’t missed a practice, let alone a game. That isn’t repeatable in this sport, even for qbs. It’s just a matter of time.

Edited April 8, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

57 minutes ago, Drew said:

My problem has always been not only the stupidity of the "Dak sucks" crowd, but the nearly as bad "Dak is just average" folks as well.  There's little difference.  He's obviously WELL above average and Top 10 QB today.

Now if you want to say he's not good enough to win a SB...sure, I guess?  I mean there have been WAY worse QB's that have won superbowls to say he can't win it, but okay.  

I also think it's asinine to sit here and say, after 4 years, the dude is maxed out...like he'll never be any better(and he was GREAT last year), especially since almost all of us were universal in our hate of Garret, Linehan before him, and their entire offensive philosophy(even last year, where it was clear they were still beholden to the older style of offense).

We've seen so much from Dak to show that he does have what it takes to even take another jump...but people are so blinded by their hatred, and listen to so many talking heads and twitter media blow hards, that they think they know more than anyone else about what Dak is or isn't.

 

 

 

If we’re just talking next year, and not projecting the future, these are the qbs that I’d FOR SURE want before Dak. Without hesitation. In no particular order:

Lamar Jackson 

mahomes

Wilson

Watson

Rodgers

Brady (especially with actual talent at wr)

Brees

Qbs better than Dak on most days if all things are equal, but Dak can outplay them at times:

Wentz 

Stafford 

Matt Ryan

Healthy Big Ben

 

Then you have a tier of qbs that you can absolutely win with if most of the pieces are in place:

Dak

Cousins

Goff 

Jimmy G

Tannehill (say what you want, but he was one of the better qbs in the league from the time he took over until the end of the regular season. He’s always been kinda decent but *derp* Adam Gase *derp*

On any given day, Dak is falling anywhere within the 8-16 on the “qb rankings” when you include the qbs listed above. Dak at his best and Dak at his worst will have him consistently falling in that range of “rankings” for starting QBs in the nfl. Maybe once or twice a year he’ll elevate and have a top performance against a good team, but for every game like that, he’ll have a terrible game against a good team (or a bad team even). I would say that’s the fucking definition of average to slightly above average. I know you don’t agree with that, and that’s fine, but nothing I said above was “just as bad as the ‘Dak sucks’ crowd” that doesn’t exist lol. 

And the idea of “maybe we’ve seen the best of him” isn’t anyone’s firm opinion. It most definitely isn’t mine. I’m just saying it’s in the range of outcomes over the course of the next 5 years. The oline gets even older and more beat up than it already is, and Zeke wears down, and Dak doesn’t make the jump I feel like you think he’s already made (stats!). I don’t think it’s going to play out that way, but it’s DEFINITELY in the range of outcomes at a higher percentage than you’re giving it credit for. I can think of plenty scenarios where it works out that way. I think a more likely scenario is he improves a LITTLE bit in the short term, maybe shows a little bit more consistency with his accuracy or his running ability, but ultimately stays firmly within that 8-16 on any given day range. With the 1 boom game and the one best game. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Genco 3041]

And the argument that "it doesn't matter; with the salary cap going up he'll seem like a bargain." Why do you think Dak and his agents are insisting on a shorter term contract? They're not interested in being a bargain after the new tv deals are negotiated.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Genco

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

The lack of nuance is just par for the course, I guess. Anyone saying "Romo sucks!" because he did not match Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees in playoff success sounds about as sophisticated as the person saying "Dak sucks!" despite going for 4,900 yards with 30:11 touchdowns to interceptions.  Dallas had the second best offense in the NFL in adjusted stats and the 19th ranked defense and the 27th ranked special teams. Anyone laying a majority of the blame on the offense or blaming our QB for the lack of overall season success is seriously misguided. 

It's a worthwhile discussion if Dak is good enough to commit to a big contract or if Dallas should go the Andy Dalton/Nick Foles route at the position for less money but the "Dak sucks we went 8-8 because o him!" talk is fucking stupid. 

 

I mentioned Dalton before. I’d sign him right now if for no other reason, than to have a competent backup. A backup that I know I can win with if Dak gets hurt for a 4-6 week stretch kind of like Brees did last year. He already had his chance, and he has to know he isn’t going to be starter anymore. But if Dak gets stupid and decides he wants to hold out...

 

Also nobody said Dak sucks lol. At least not to my knowledge. Just want to repeat that again since that is embedded in some of your brains. 

[C-Man 27237]

 

36 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

If we’re just talking next year, and not projecting the future, these are the qbs that I’d FOR SURE want before Dak. Without hesitation. In no particular order:

Lamar Jackson 

mahomes

Wilson

Watson

Rodgers

Brady (especially with actual talent at wr)

Brees

Qbs better than Dak on most days if all things are equal, but Dak can outplay them at times:

Wentz 

Stafford 

Matt Ryan

Healthy Big Ben

 

Then you have a tier of qbs that you can absolutely win with if most of the pieces are in place:

Dak

Cousins

Goff 

Jimmy G

Tannehill (say what you want, but he was one of the better qbs in the league from the time he took over until the end of the regular season. He’s always been kinda decent but *derp* Adam Gase *derp*

On any given day, Dak is falling anywhere within the 8-16 on the “qb rankings” when you include the qbs listed above. Dak at his best and Dak at his worst will have him consistently falling in that range of “rankings” for starting QBs in the nfl. Maybe once or twice a year he’ll elevate and have a top performance against a good team, but for every game like that, he’ll have a terrible game against a good team (or a bad team even). I would say that’s the fucking definition of average to slightly above average. I know you don’t agree with that, and that’s fine, but nothing I said above was “just as bad as the ‘Dak sucks’ crowd” that doesn’t exist lol. 

And the idea of “maybe we’ve seen the best of him” isn’t anyone’s firm opinion. It most definitely isn’t mine. I’m just saying it’s in the range of outcomes over the course of the next 5 years. The oline gets even older and more beat up than it already is, and Zeke wears down, and Dak doesn’t make the jump I feel like you think he’s already made (stats!). I don’t think it’s going to play out that way, but it’s DEFINITELY in the range of outcomes at a higher percentage than you’re giving it credit for. I can think of plenty scenarios where it works out that way. I think a more likely scenario is he improves a LITTLE bit in the short term, maybe shows a little bit more consistency with his accuracy or his running ability, but ultimately stays firmly within that 8-16 on any given day range. With the 1 boom game and the one best game. 

Exactly what I've been saying. Dak doesn't suck. But on his absolute best days he's a borderline Top 8 QB. On his not-so-great days he's a middle-of-the-road NFL QB, which isn't bad for a 4th round pick. But now that his cheap contract is up he wants to be the highest-paid player in the game. Fuck that shit. I don't care that he's next-man-up or the salary cap is going up so damn high it won't matter, it's the fucking principal. We so sure about that if the economy is in the shitter or there god forbid isn't a 2020 season?

25 minutes ago, Genco said:

And the argument that "it doesn't matter; with the salary cap going up he'll seem like a bargain." Why do you think Dak and his agents are insisting on a shorter term contract? They're not interested in being a bargain after the new tv deals are negotiated.

And this. He's angling so he can be highest-paid now and then be next-man-up again in four years. No thanks!

NOTE: I also loved Romo though he did have a bit of a can't-win-the-big-one quality to him.

[futureman 22507]

3 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Qbs better than Dak on most days if all things are equal, but Dak can outplay them at times:

Wentz 

Stafford 

Matt Ryan

Healthy Big Ben

with all things equal this isn’t even a comparison, for any of them.  hell, wentz was throwing the ball to arena league receivers without an OL to block for him and still outplayed dak.  in that situation dak loses 100 games out of 100. 

[LTtxfan 49312]

Siap...

 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

5 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I mentioned Dalton before. I’d sign him right now if for no other reason, than to have a competent backup. A backup that I know I can win with if Dak gets hurt for a 4-6 week stretch kind of like Brees did last year. He already had his chance, and he has to know he isn’t going to be starter anymore. But if Dak gets stupid and decides he wants to hold out...

Dalton's not a free agent and he'll probably want a place where he either has an opportunity to compete for a starting job or a place where the incumbent doesn't have tons of job security

 

[Hate 20128]

Won't the Bengals cut him once they draft their QB?  I think everyone is assuming that he will be a FA soon. 

[LTtxfan 49312]

So center in Round 2...  (SI.com)

From steven monteiro (@Steviefreshman): Perfect world—Who do the Cowboys draft in the first round?

Steven, perfect world? Chase Young. The real world? Lamb or Jeudy would be fun, but I think the corner need, with Byron Jones gone, and Chidobe Awuzie and Jourdan Lewis in contract years, is the one to watch. And they should be able to get a good one—maybe Florida’s C.J. Henderson or LSU’s Kristian Fulton by sitting right where they are. Alabama’s Xavier McKinney is another to watch, given the team’s long-standing safety need.

What’s really interesting is that Dallas now has this hole at center. Will Michigan’s Cesar Ruiz or LSU’s Lloyd Cushenberry make it to their pick at 51? I’d think those two would be names to watch considering Travis Frederick’s retirement, and the Joneses’ belief in building through the offensive line. And maybe this is where I mention getting Frederick was the result of a trade down that netted Dallas an extra third-rounder (that became a pretty serviceable receiver, in Terrance Williams.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/08/mailbag-nfl-draft-coronavirus-booth-umpire

[LTtxfan 49312]

53 minutes ago, Hate said:

Won't the Bengals cut him once they draft their QB?  I think everyone is assuming that he will be a FA soon. 

Maybe...

Taylor said "every option is on the table" in terms of what to do with Dalton moving forward during an interview with WLWT's Elise Jesse on Monday:

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported something similar on March 25:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2885683-zac-taylor-on-keeping-andy-dalton-with-rookie-qb-theres-a-lot-of-unknowns

Edited April 9, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Hate 20128]

It seems like something they have to say because I’m sure they are trying to trade him. I do not believe for one second Andy Dalton will be on the Bengals roster whenever the next season begins.

[gsoda3 3272]

Siap... [/url]  

Throwing against air and Dez still had to dive for it ...

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Won't the Bengals cut him once they draft their QB?  I think everyone is assuming that he will be a FA soon. 

Maybe..... but not definitely.  I mean, let's face it, they're locked in on Burrow.  Red Rifle has been a good soldier and they could have done him a solid by releasing him prior to FA opening or at least a few weeks ago.  Shit, now while there's a few starter positions open would be decent of them, but they haven't because they're the cheapest organization in football (maybe sports) and may end up going all the way through TC to see if they can get a 2nd day pick for him.  They'll see if there's an injury in TC or if one of the other QBs doesn't take to a new staff's playbook.  So, if I had to bet, he won't be on the Bengals OD, but who the fuck knows when or how they move on from him.

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

25 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Throwing against air and Dez still had to dive for it ...

He had to dive for it because he slipped and it threw off the timing. Have you ever played football before?

[futureman 22507]

1 minute ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

He had to dive for it because he slipped and it threw off the timing. Have you ever played football before?

it was a shit throw and you know it.  stop apologizing for the fact that he sucks at football.

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

it was a shit throw and you know it.  stop apologizing for the fact that he sucks at football.

You wouldnt know a shit throw if Mike White threw it right at your nuts. 

[futureman 22507]

yeah I’m sure you’re proud of your one year in high school as manager of the JV squad but why don’t you just let the people with real football experience discuss the game. if you had ever actually played  you’d understand things a little better.
 

 I mean, you share an opinion with drew who I know has never even touched a football and is probably a woman. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by futureman

[Iceman 2722]

19 hours ago, 'stache said:

If there is a single HC or DC in the league that enters a week scared of a particular QB they are bitchass coaches that probably shouldn't be coaching in the NFL. No QB can win alone. All of the highly paid QBs that have won need other pieces in place and good coaching. That includes Brady and Mahomes (who is going to blow the whole payscale up very soon way beyond what Dak will get). Again, the alternative is you get rid of a successful QB like Dak for fear of "overpaying" and wander below .500 while you hope to find the next Mahomes in the draft. It's not gonna fucking happen. We can win with Dak even at the salary the market has set. Others have done it, why is this the only franchise that has to try and win on the cheap?

If nobody fears a QB, then why do they command such a premium in pay versus their fellow players?  There's either an extreme value towards wins/losses at the position or everybody in the league is a Jerry Jones who likes setting money on fire.

[C-Man 27237]

14 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Siap...

 

Is that the Hot Spot's own David Robinson?

I'm gonna beat yo ass!

[futureman 22507]

3 hours ago, Iceman said:

an extreme value towards wins/losses at the position

not according to drew and catmommy

[Drew 2499]

19 hours ago, Genco said:

And the argument that "it doesn't matter; with the salary cap going up he'll seem like a bargain." Why do you think Dak and his agents are insisting on a shorter term contract? They're not interested in being a bargain after the new tv deals are negotiated.

Which is the only reason he isn't signed.  Everyone that doesn't want him signed is claiming he doesn't deserve that money, when the money he'll be getting doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. If he was Nick Foles or Teddy Bridgewater, paying him 35 a year would be outrageous. But not for someone like Dak.

[Genco 3041]

Good grief. You approach finances like every woman I've ever known.

[Drew 2499]

You mean not being worried about what billionaires are paying millionaires in a league where the QB positions goes up by astronomical numbers everytime a good QB gets paid?

The point is the anti Dak crowd has made it show that anyone who thinks Dak is good enough to get paid, at all, that they're completely nuts...when the Pro Dak guys wouldn't seem so crazy if we weren't having to defend the very existence of a QB like Dak Prescott in the first place.

When Futureman was just trolling, it was cute, kind of funny...but now he's turned it into the entire basis of his persona on here, and what's worse, there are idiots who have become his followers.

It's easy to say "Hey Dak is good, but not great"...I'll disagree, as I think he's VERY good , and only getting better, especially with a fresh coaching staff and ideas.  But then you have clwons pretending he's a "mediocre" QB who shouldn't be paid 10 million dollars and that guys like Andy Fucking Dalton are even nearly as good as he is.

[futureman 22507]

17 minutes ago, Drew said:

When Futureman was just trolling, it was cute, kind of funny...but now he's turned it into the entire basis of his persona on here, and what's worse, there are idiots who have become his followers.

not trolling, dak really does suck at winning when it counts, and doesn't deserve the money.  and I have no followers, there are just people who happen to agree with me that you're an utter fool and a joke.  nobody really agrees with me about dak.

[Newy25 7703]

13 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Maybe..... but not definitely.  I mean, let's face it, they're locked in on Burrow.  Red Rifle has been a good soldier and they could have done him a solid by releasing him prior to FA opening or at least a few weeks ago.  Shit, now while there's a few starter positions open would be decent of them, but they haven't because they're the cheapest organization in football (maybe sports) and may end up going all the way through TC to see if they can get a 2nd day pick for him.  They'll see if there's an injury in TC or if one of the other QBs doesn't take to a new staff's playbook.  So, if I had to bet, he won't be on the Bengals OD, but who the fuck knows when or how they move on from him.

 

I assume the Bengals want to keep him on the roster as long as possible so they have as much leverage in a possible draft day trade. What if the Dolphins offered a stupid amount of their picks to them? You at least have that option to trade if Dalton is still on your roster. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

9 hours ago, Newy25 said:

I assume the Bengals want to keep him on the roster as long as possible so they have as much leverage in a possible draft day trade. What if the Dolphins offered a stupid amount of their picks to them? You at least have that option to trade if Dalton is still on your roster. 

And I understand that mindset.  The Fins would be insanely stupid to do so and from most reports they're taking Tua or Herbert, but there's a sucker born everyday and it only takes one. If not, they release him in August and all they gave up was cap space for a finite amount of time.  Bengals aren't going to contend this year, so not a big deal.  Again, probably hoping circumstance helps them out.

 

[Trey3216 15350]

9 hours ago, Newy25 said:

I assume the Bengals want to keep him on the roster as long as possible so they have as much leverage in a possible draft day trade. What if the Dolphins offered a stupid amount of their picks to them? You at least have that option to trade if Dalton is still on your roster. 

If they offer any picks for him that would be a stupid amount of picks 

[Hate 20128]

That’s exactly why I’ve assumed he would be a FA. Nobody in their right mind outside of Bill O’Brien would trade for him. Speaking of which, that stupid son of a bitch may be working on another stupid deal. Maybe he’d trade Watson for Dak? Drew things we’d be getting robbed in that deal.

[futureman 22507]

deshaun watson would definitely win more than 8 games if he were playing in dallas.

[Hate 20128]

11 minutes ago, futureman said:

deshaun watson would definitely win more than 8 games if he were playing in dallas.

Look at what he's done in Houston without a good coach, OL, or running game.  What would he do with the weapons in Dallas?  Damn. 

[Pato del Muerto 52532]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Look at what he's done in Houston without a good coach, OL, or running game.  What would he do with the weapons in Dallas?  Damn. 

Dallas doesn’t have a deondre Hopkins and hasn’t the past 4 years. 
Dallas also had every bit the shit coaching. So Watson might have looked worse in Dallas the past couple of seasons. 

[Hate 20128]

The Texans didn’t have Zeke or a decent OL.

[futureman 22507]

exactly.  dak had the best running game in the league.  and still couldn’t win.  there are so many quarterbacks (minimum 20 and probably more) that could win games and go on a playoff run if they had the best rushing attack and an elite receiver on the outside.  and we’re about to give one that can’t more money than anyone in the history of the league.  it’s truly unbelievable. 

[C-Man 27237]

Watson’s also been to the playoffs the last two seasons in a much more difficult division WITH Bill O’Brien as his coach.

['stache 21825]

On 4/8/2020 at 12:33 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

I think this is the point where we simply aren’t on the same page. It’s not about drafting the next mahomes. It’s about actually putting draft capital into hopefully finding another average to slightly above average starting qb that has potential to be elite if X, Y, and Z happen. Then, you have a slightly above average qb on a rookie deal, instead of making a slightly above average qb the highest paid player in the fucking sport. I’m not about to go futureman level, but there are number of starting QBs in the league that could do exactly what Dak has done up until this point in his career if they had the rb threat that Dak has had throughout his career. 
 

And again, I’m not saying don’t pay him. What I’m saying is, let him actually test the market and see if he can find that deal that him and his agent feel like he deserves. If he can find it, great. Try to match it. Don’t want to give us a chance to match because you’re a little butt hurt and you feel like your new team is a better situation for you? Understandable. Good luck to you. But if/when he doesn’t get that offer, and the offers start coming in right around the same price as our offer, then we’ve officially given him and his agent a fair chance to test their leverage. 
 

But, he’s already been tagged, so I guess that really isn’t an option, and that’s unfortunate. Because his franchise tag number is a solid deal for him and his agent. So we either overpay, or play this exact same game next year. 
 

 

You're right, we just won't agree, and that's fine. I just don't think hoping to find an "above average" QB in the draft is ever a good bet. So many first rounders fail in the NFL. It is maybe the hardest position in professional sports, and if you have a guy that shows he can do it at an above average level, you pay him. That's just how the market has worked. I would take enormous odds that the chances of Dak taking the jump to elite is much higher than the chances of a first round QB becoming really good or even above average, at least in the long term. So many of those guys either flop from the start, or have a season or a season and a half before dropping off significantly when coaches have enough film to scheme against you.

As to your second point, has there ever been an example of a top tier QB "testing the market" and coming back to the team he started with? In general, how many pro bowl QBs who have not dropped off significantly have signed with other teams at the end of their rookie deals? It seems so rare. I just don't understand why people want the Cowboys to do business so different than everyone else. It's a recipe for continued mediocrity, and we are struggling enough with mediocrity with a good QB.

['stache 21825]

On 4/9/2020 at 7:59 AM, Iceman said:

If nobody fears a QB, then why do they command such a premium in pay versus their fellow players?  There's either an extreme value towards wins/losses at the position or everybody in the league is a Jerry Jones who likes setting money on fire.

Because QB is the hardest position in professional sports, and very few are able to be elite or even really good. Of course DC's scheme for the QB they are up against, but somebody said no DC ever "fears" going up against Dak.  Yet, well over half of the defenses he's faced have lost to him (his career record is 40-24 according to the internet). Just as he didn't win all those game by himself, he didn't lose thost 24 games by himself either. My point is, if a DC goes into the week worried about only the QB, that is a weak ass attitude. The concern should be the entirety of the offense. Sure, with a good QB, you have to pay special attention to certain areas, but you don't "fear" the team solely because of who is QBing.

Edited April 10, 2020 by 'stache

[Newy25 7703]

13 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

If they offer any picks for him that would be a stupid amount of picks 

That’s not what I was getting at. I meant for their draft pick. What if the Dolphins offered the kitchen sink for it? Keep Dalton and draft a lot of good players around him. 

[Iceman 2722]

40 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Because QB is the hardest position in professional sports, and very few are able to be elite or even really good. Of course DC's scheme for the QB they are up against, but somebody said no DC ever "fears" going up against Dak.  Yet, well over half of the defenses he's faced have lost to him (his career record is 40-24 according to the internet). Just as he didn't win all those game by himself, he didn't lose thost 24 games by himself either. My point is, if a DC goes into the week worried about only the QB, that is a weak ass attitude. The concern should be the entirety of the offense. Sure, with a good QB, you have to pay special attention to certain areas, but you don't "fear" the team solely because of who is QBing.

The Garrett factor is the benefit of the doubt I’d give in Prescott’s favor.

I actually love that he got tagged. He can make himself a boatload of money; or he’s going to prove the case otherwise, regardless of his HC. This football fan has not seen the playmaking ability commensurate with upper tier pay for QBs.

Impress me Dak...

Edited April 10, 2020 by Iceman

[Bone3421 716]

And I understand that mindset.  The Fins would be insanely stupid to do so and from most reports they're taking Tua or Herbert, but there's a sucker born everyday and it only takes one. If not, they release him in August and all they gave up was cap space for a finite amount of time.  Bengals aren't going to contend this year, so not a big deal.  Again, probably hoping circumstance helps them out.
 

I wouldn't say they Bengals won't contend just yet...they did have quite a bad year for injuries
Not saying they will but we have seen it before. Ross was doing quite well before Injury, green has a some good football in him still and then Mixon is a good rb.
If burrow plays well I wouldn't be shocked if they grabbed a 5th-7th seed with all the changes in the AFC

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

People who bash the offense (via bashing Dak) are generally the most ignorant on this thread.  Dallas' offense was fine, actually better than fine, it was pretty darn good.

Dallas was 2nd in offensive yards per drive. 

Dallas was 4th in offensive points per drive.

Dallas was 3rd in offensive success rate per drive.

The only offenses which graded better were the Ravens and the Chiefs.  

The Dallas defense was mediocre to poor last season as they ranked between 14-17 in those efficiency stats.  When looked at by plays and TOP per drive, Dallas is in the bottom 8. 

It was also interestingly enough 27th in starting field position defensively AND 30th in starting field position offensively.  We were ranked 30th in DVOA for ST.  

What does all that. mean???  Pretty much someone upstream hit it.  We had a very good offense who bogged down at times trying to go too many yards per drive.  We had an abysmal special teams, who gave up tons of hidden yardage and being inefficient in the kicking game.  One of the bottom 5 ST squads in the league last year, arguably bottom 3.  Our defense was mediocre to poor.  We were average in giving up points on most measures but we had very few 3 and outs and we didn't create very many turnovers, which create short fields and therefore help offensive scoring efficiency. We also gave up a lot of TOP on defensive drives and plays. 

A lot of this is wrapped up in coaching philosophy.  The difficult part of having a conservative coach who thinks every game has to be won in the last 5 minutes in concert with a ball control (although not as much offensively last year) mindset is it's a self fulfilling prophecy and therefore inserts more stress on luck and managing risk, something Ginger was always mediocre (being nice) at it.  We had a good offense last year, could it be better?  Sure and we hope it is.  We had a good QB last year, could he get better or should we want him to get better?  Absolutely. 

But, why the drama?  Because he's going to get paid a lot of money, some of which is probably back pay for outplaying his contract since his rookie year?  I understand not liking bad contracts, but Dak has vastly outplayed his current one and I don't see a lot of folks clamoring for him to get back pay.  Do I want to pay him 35m AAV?  Nope, but I can live with that more than paying a fucking RB 15m AAV or Jaylon 12m AAV.  I mean I get some of this is is just a cross section of our fanbase.  There are fools in every base, but the angst the last several pages is pretty overplayed IMO.  

 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

25 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

I wouldn't say they Bengals won't contend just yet...they did have quite a bad year for injuries
Not saying they will but we have seen it before. Ross was doing quite well before Injury, green has a some good football in him still and then Mixon is a good rb.
If burrow plays well I wouldn't be shocked if they grabbed a 5th-7th seed with all the changes in the AFC

I'll take that bet..... their OL is poor and their defense is too.  I don't think they make the expanded playoff format.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

That’s not what I was getting at. I meant for their draft pick. What if the Dolphins offered the kitchen sink for it? Keep Dalton and draft a lot of good players around him. 

Tanking for Trevor???   Feels like Red Rifle era has run it's course in Cincy but never know.....  But Burrow being from Ohio has that marketing story a lot teams look for.

[Bone3421 716]

I'll take that bet..... their OL is poor and their defense is too.  I don't think they make the expanded playoff format.

Like I said I don't know if it will happen.
Just that I think it's way to early to say they wont.....sure everyone had the rams as faves last year and nobody was on the niners

[futureman 22507]

57 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Dallas' offense was fine, actually better than fine, it was pretty darn good.

sorry, pal, you’re wrong.  garbage time stats don’t amount to much.  they’ll get you about 8 wins a year, in fact.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

9 hours ago, futureman said:

exactly.  dak had the best running game in the league.  and still couldn’t win.  there are so many quarterbacks (minimum 20 and probably more) that could win games and go on a playoff run if they had the best rushing attack and an elite receiver on the outside.  and we’re about to give one that can’t more money than anyone in the history of the league.  it’s truly unbelievable. 

2nd winningest QB over the past 4 years "still couldn't win".