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Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Genco

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On 4/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, Drew said:

Also, people still can’t seem to figure out that you CANT trade Dak until he accepts and signs the tender. Why would he do that? Why would he help Dallas by signing it?

I'll agree with you that Dak won't be traded. There simply isn't a market for him at all. But he is playing on the tag this year whether he likes it or not.

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futureman

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51 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

If Tua drops to 17, do you take him?

hell yes.  it’s pretty clear dak isn’t going to accept what he’s worth.  so you take tua and trade dak for a defender and make a run at the playoffs for the next five seasons on tua‘s cheap contract.  if he’s there at 17 it’s not something that even needs to be discussed, you just do it.  there is not a single valid argument against it. 

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Trey3216

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11 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Dak fucked himself by holding out. He’ll be y’all tagged and no idea what the cap/market will do going forward with Covid looming. 

If Tua drops to 17, do you take him?

No.  I think Tua is going to be a massive bust in the NFL.  Matt Leinart-esque failure.  

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Drew

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18 hours ago, Genco said:

I'll agree with you that Dak won't be traded. There simply isn't a market for him at all. But he is playing on the tag this year whether he likes it or not.

That's not true at all.  There would absolutely be a market for him, it's ridiculous to think otherwise.  It may not be the market that thinks he's worth 35 mil or whatever, but to say there "isn't a market for him at all" is kind of a crazy take. Like someone wouldn't even trade a 3rd rounder for him or something.

 

And with Tua, yes he's a great QB prospect.  If he didn't get hurt he probably goes #1.  But I've noticed some people bringing up some things that are concerning lately.  And no, it's not simply "He gets hurt and/or has a major hip injury".  It's simply this.  

If you're playing behind an Offensive line the last 2 years that has had multiple 1st and 2nd rounders on it(including this year and probably next year too), you have possibly the 2 of the 3 best WR's in this class, and probably at least another first rounder or 2 in the near future behind them...and you have first or 2nd round talent at the RB position behind you...then you have to ask yourself this.  Why the fuck are you getting hurt so much?  You should have plenty of time to get rid of the ball with that OL.  You have plenty of Receiving and dump off targets.

Is it mental?  Yes you have great accuracy and can throw the ball wherever you want.  But are you holding the ball too long?  Are you trying to keep a play alive that should just be killed and move on to the next?  Do you just take really bad shots that other QB's minimize?

 

It's definitely not talent that hurts Tua.  He's obviously great.  But there are some tendencies that should scare NFL teams. He's not Wentz who just can't finish a year because despite his size, he's brittle...some people just think Tua  makes some questionable decisions instead of getting rid of the ball or taking an easy sack and instead tries too  hard.

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Patrick Bateman

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17 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Spending 3 years in Alabama will make any man stupid. He ain’t go there to play no school. 

Wonderlic doesn't really test higher learning education, more cognitive skills -- problem solving, personality traits, reasoning, etc.  Lamar Jackson got a 13, but he's an elite athlete.  McNabb, Kelly, Cunningham, and McNair all struggled with it but those guy were 20-30 years ago or more.  It wasn't as important a metric, not did guys prepare for it as greatly.  There's not an elite passing first QB who didn't get at least a 20 in the last 10 years.  Average for a QB is 24.  Average for a SB winning QB is over 27 the last generation. 

 

16 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Dak fucked himself by holding out. He’ll be y’all tagged and no idea what the cap/market will do going forward with Covid looming. 

If Tua drops to 17, do you take him?

Doubt he will, but no..... Rather trade down get more picks and go with Love if you want a QB.

 

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VirginiaLonghorn

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6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

the wonderlic is basically pattern recognition and problem solving.  i'd like my qb to be able to do those things.

... unless he’s particularly adept at scrambling, especially to the right, or recognizing that the TE is an eligible receiver. 

Edited by VirginiaLonghorn
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Genco

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3 hours ago, Drew said:

That's not true at all.  There would absolutely be a market for him, it's ridiculous to think otherwise.  It may not be the market that thinks he's worth 35 mil or whatever, but to say there "isn't a market for him at all" is kind of a crazy take. Like someone wouldn't even trade a 3rd rounder for him or something.

Yes I'm sure teams are lining up to part with their draft capital in the next 5 days to acquire an unhappy QB playing under the tag who wants to reset the market amidst the backdrop of a pandemic which has put the 2020 NFL season at risk and all but assured that the 2021 salary cap will go down, rather than up. Teams generally love to do business like that with an uncertain economic model over the next few years.

 

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Catdaddyhorn

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https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2016/06/28/cowboys-nfl-intelligence-tests-scores-revealed/

"The Wonderlic test is an IQ test given to NFL draft prospects every year.

Dallas Cowboys running back rookie Ezekiel Elliott, taken with the No. 4 overall pick, scored a 32 out of 50, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinelreported.

But what about new quarterback Dak Prescott?

According to an NJ.com report, Prescott scored seven points lower, earning a 25. That puts him behind former Cowboys quarterbacks Quincy Carter (30) and Troy Aikman (29). His score is on par with Colt McCoy (25) and Robert Griffin III (24). The man in front of Prescott, Tony Romo, scored a 37."

 

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Patrick Bateman

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11 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2016/06/28/cowboys-nfl-intelligence-tests-scores-revealed/

"The Wonderlic test is an IQ test given to NFL draft prospects every year.

Dallas Cowboys running back rookie Ezekiel Elliott, taken with the No. 4 overall pick, scored a 32 out of 50, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinelreported.

But what about new quarterback Dak Prescott?

According to an NJ.com report, Prescott scored seven points lower, earning a 25. That puts him behind former Cowboys quarterbacks Quincy Carter (30) and Troy Aikman (29). His score is on par with Colt McCoy (25) and Robert Griffin III (24). The man in front of Prescott, Tony Romo, scored a 37."

 

Saw that.... Q dawg with the solid test.  Mahomes got a 24.  I think most teams see it more of a red flag if you get too low.  Under 15 and you're going to be questioned as the stats the last 15 years don't favor your ability to win big unless a supreme athlete.  I'm sure some of these dues, especially the ones from disadvantaged backgrounds, probably have some undiagnosed learning disabilities.  I think that was Mo Claiborne's case.  

 

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Catdaddyhorn

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40 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I'm digging the Dak defenders trying to make Dak a "Mahomes-Lite"

 

LOLz.

 

 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay fucking lite.

How is showing how his stats stack up against Mahomes the equivalent of saying he's Mahomes light? The only point of showing that he compares favorably in some areas is to demonstrate he's not the complete and utter trash so many here try to make him out to be.  No team in their right mind is going to get rid of a 26 yr old QB who has shown this much promise.    

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Iceman

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Favorably to Mahomes in what area?  Time of possession?

 

He can't carry fucking Patrick Mahomes II's jock when it come s to play making ability.

 

Not even on the same fucking planet.   It';s like you motherfuckers read stat pages but have never watched a fucking game/

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C-Man

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11 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

I was wrong and you are partially right.  He scored a 6, not a 7

Vince's first test was erroneous. He took it again and scored 16.

5 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

How is showing how his stats stack up against Mahomes the equivalent of saying he's Mahomes light? The only point of showing that he compares favorably in some areas is to demonstrate he's not the complete and utter trash so many here try to make him out to be.  No team in their right mind is going to get rid of a 26 yr old QB who has shown this much promise.    

In two seasons as a starting QB, Mahomes has won the MVP, reached the AFC Championship Game and lost in OT and won the fucking Super Bowl. In three years, Dak has won one fucking playoff game playing in the worst division in football. Dak is a good QB -- he's not a market-setting QB with the chance to try and do the same again in 3-4 years. Do not compare him to fucking Mahomes.

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youdunnf'dup

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7 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

How is showing how his stats stack up against Mahomes the equivalent of saying he's Mahomes light? The only point of showing that he compares favorably in some areas is to demonstrate he's not the complete and utter trash so many here try to make him out to be.  No team in their right mind is going to get rid of a 26 yr old QB who has shown this much promise.    

So you made a post like that directed at futureman and only futureman? Because nobody else thinks Dak is trash. Seems like a lot of work put into a post directed at one person who is clearly trolling. If you think Dak should be the highest paid player in football, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I’m fine with Dak as long as he doesn’t force us into what will almost certainly be a terrible contract.
 

Different sports, but there were rumors that mlb execs were colluding at the winter meetings a few years ago and freezing out the middle and upper middle class players. The top players got the huge money deals, but the next tier (guys like Craig Kimbrel and Dallas Kuechel) didn’t get anywhere close to what they were expecting (and what history said they probably should’ve gotten). Something like that needs to happen with the class of qbs that haven’t proven that they’re clearly elite. I really do think Dak is a solid NFL qb that you can win with. One that has a chance at being elite if Kellen Moore/McCarthy can unlock what Garrett/Linehan couldn’t. I genuinely feel that way. But this “next qb in line, pay him whatever the fuck he wants” concept is just ridiculous. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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Iceman

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Who is comparing Dak to Mahomes aside from slorch’s straw man?  If it’s Drew, I ignore his posts, and apologize slorch. 

I don’t think Cowboys should do anything other than tag Dak and wait for a QB market that will be coming down temporarily to ink a long term deal. I think it’s questionable he’s Top 10. Next season he could prove he’s closer to Top 5 or toward 15. I lean toward the latter, but who knows. I wouldn’t pay him long term money with Covid poised to, at the very least, not cause the QB market to go up next year. 

Catdaddy's graphs. They demonstrate irrefutably the similarities between Dak and Patty Boy.   Can't you just see how similar they are?

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Catdaddyhorn

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10 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

So you made a post like that directed at futureman and only futureman? Because nobody else thinks Dak is trash. Seems like a lot of work put into a post directed at one person who is clearly trolling. If you think Dak should be the highest paid player in football, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I’m fine with Dak as long as he doesn’t force us into what will almost certainly be a terrible contract.
 

Different sports, but there were rumors that mlb execs were colluding at the winter meetings a few years ago and freezing out the middle and upper middle class players. The top players got the huge money deals, but the next tier (guys like Craig Kimbrel and Dallas Kuechel) didn’t get anywhere close to what they were expecting (and what history said they probably should’ve gotten). Something like that needs to happen with the class of qbs that haven’t proven that they’re clearly elite. I really do think Dak is a solid NFL qb that you can win with. One that has a chance at being elite if Kellen Moore/McCarthy can unlock what Garrett/Linehan couldn’t. I genuinely feel that way. But this “next qb in line, pay him whatever the fuck he wants” concept is just ridiculous. 

There have been a number of posters here who have intimated that Dak is trash to mediocre.  Even you, who now  seems to have come off your mediocre stance, were once there with them.  Regardless I'll leave it alone. The Covid19 economic downturn changes the discussion considerably. Cowboys would be foolish to go into a longterm deal at this point until there's a little more certainty surrounding the sport. 

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youdunnf'dup

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2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

There have been a number of posters here who have intimated that Dak is trash to mediocre.  Even you, who now  seems to have come off your mediocre stance, were once there with them.  Regardless I'll leave it alone. The Covid19 economic downturn changes the discussion considerably. Cowboys would be foolish to go into a longterm deal at this point until there's a little more certainty surrounding the sport. 

For the record, I still think Dak is a mediocre starting QB, but I feel like some of you think that’s more of a knock on Dak than i do. It isn’t easy to find someone who is universally regarded as one of the 15 or so best QBs on the planet. It’s more about consistency. That’s what separates guys like Jimmy G from guys like Watson. Jimmy G can look like a top 5 qb on the road in New Orleans in what was arguably the most important regular season game for the NFC playoff picture, and then he can turn around and look like 2nd half of the super bowl jimmy g. That’s what Dak is to me. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. You just don’t let guys like that strong arm you into making them the highest paid player in the league. I don’t care what history says. That’s all I’m saying. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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Genco

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5 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

For the record, I still think Dak is a mediocre starting QB, but I feel like some of you think that’s more of a knock on Dak than i do. It isn’t easy to find someone who is universally regarded as one of the 15 or so best QBs on the planet. It’s more about consistency. That’s what separates guys like Jimmy G from guys like Watson. Jimmy G can look like a top 5 qb on the road in New Orleans in what was arguably the most important regular season game for the NFC playoff picture, and then he can turn around and look like 2nd half of the super bowl jimmy g. That’s what Dak is to me. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. You just don’t let guys like that strong arm you into making them the highest paid player in the league. I don’t care what history says. That’s all I’m saying. 

And I would hope that a handful of posters will dispense with the philosophy of consequence free contract decisions because the cap "always goes up." Bad contract economics do matter. Just look at the Rams and the Jaguars.

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Vic Mackey

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20 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

For the record, I still think Dak is a mediocre starting QB, but I feel like some of you think that’s more of a knock on Dak than i do. It isn’t easy to find someone who is universally regarded as one of the 15 or so best QBs on the planet. It’s more about consistency. That’s what separates guys like Jimmy G from guys like Watson. Jimmy G can look like a top 5 qb on the road in New Orleans in what was arguably the most important regular season game for the NFC playoff picture, and then he can turn around and look like 2nd half of the super bowl jimmy g. That’s what Dak is to me. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. You just don’t let guys like that strong arm you into making them the highest paid player in the league. I don’t care what history says. That’s all I’m saying. 

Y'all are so fixated on this "highest paid player" label. Who fucking cares. Stafford used to be the highest paid. Until the next season. He's a blip on the radar now compared to what contracts go for these days,. Y'all need a dose of reality if you think these contracts are always based on accomplishments. If that was the case, Wentz and Stafford would not have gotten the contracts they did. Neither would Jimmy G. He was paid a massive contract for being a backup to Brady. It's how the league is set up. QBs good and not so good are going to get paid a lot. And it will continue to rise. And guess what? So will the salary cap.

And how is Dak strong arming them? He was a free agent. They didn't have to do shit with him. They could have let him walk and go find a new team. And they could have drafted their new guy or found one in free agency. Dak didn't franchise tag himself. Negotiating a contract is not strong arming. Neither is skipping voluntary workouts. What Zeke did was strong arming into getting a new deal. He held out while under contract. Dak never once did that. He could have, though as many players are starting to with a year or 2 left on their contracts.

Dak wants to get paid and good for him. Good for any player. Owners are greedy as hell and will dispose of you like trash when it benefits them. They have also brainwashed the fans into siding with them during these contracts. No one gives a damn when a team cuts a player while under contract or low balls them. Hell, the fans actually cheer this and want the owners to sign everyone as cheap as possible. But all hell breaks loose when a player turns the tables on them. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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33 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Y'all are so fixated on this "highest paid player" label. Who fucking cares. Stafford used to be the highest paid. Until the next season. He's a blip on the radar now compared to what contracts go for these days,. Y'all need a dose of reality if you think these contracts are always based on accomplishments. If that was the case, Wentz and Stafford would not have gotten the contracts they did. Neither would Jimmy G. He was paid a massive contract for being a backup to Brady. It's how the league is set up. QBs good and not so good are going to get paid a lot. And it will continue to rise. And guess what? So will the salary cap.

And how is Dak strong arming them? He was a free agent. They didn't have to do shit with him. They could have let him walk and go find a new team. And they could have drafted their new guy or found one in free agency. Dak didn't franchise tag himself. Negotiating a contract is not strong arming. Neither is skipping voluntary workouts. What Zeke did was strong arming into getting a new deal. He held out while under contract. Dak never once did that. He could have, though as many players are starting to with a year or 2 left on their contracts.

Dak wants to get paid and good for him. Good for any player. Owners are greedy as hell and will dispose of you like trash when it benefits them. They have also brainwashed the fans into siding with them during these contracts. No one gives a damn when a team cuts a player while under contract or low balls them. Hell, the fans actually cheer this and want the owners to sign everyone as cheap as possible. But all hell breaks loose when a player turns the tables on them. 

I would agree with this if we were lowballing him. We aren’t. If the reports are true, we’ve offered fair contracts (ESPECIALLY the last one). He wants to be the highest paid player in the league, and he wants to do it on a 3 year deal so he can then around and be the highest paid player again in another 3 years. I’m sorry, but that just isn’t a good idea for roster construction. Not for a guy like Dak. You use examples like Matt Stafford. Do you really think that was a good contract? Do the lions really think that was a good contract in hindsight? Of course not. It is also funny that you use that example because the lions could never get Stafford any real help in the form of a running game, offensive line, or a good defense. Hmmm, I wonder why...besides them being the lions, of course. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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futureman

futureman 22487

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I don’t know about that.  I’d take stafford and that contract in a fucking heartbeat.  with a league-leading rusher stafford is MVP of the league, period end of story.  stafford is not the problem in detroit.  our roster is great and dak still can’t get anything done.  dak is the problem in dallas.  

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