Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Dewey 3286]

Great for the quarterback room, hopefully he doesnt see the field 

[markstanco 12577]

You'd be surprised.  Brady is a lot better outside and Rodgers is a little better.  Manning was slightly better indoors while Brees is greatly better.  Dalton's difference is more like Brees.
 

As mentioned most. A 15-20 mph wind hurts accuracy. The point was that the comment on the tweet was stupid.

""PGA tour golfers score better with no wind vs a 20 mph wind" yea no shit.

[markstanco 12577]

Great for the quarterback room, hopefully he doesnt see the field 

Here we go with Jason Garrett 2.0. He will be the coach in 5 years. Jerry loves redheads.

[Drew 2494]

Not better by any means (again, not a single person other than futureman would say that and he’s just trolling), but I like our backup qb situation as much as anyone’s in the league right now. Plus, the last time dalton had 3 good wrs (green, Marvin Jones, and Sanu) and a running game, he was a pretty decent qb. We can absolutely win games with Dalton if it comes down to it. This is not Brandon Weedon or Matt Cassell. 

100% agree

I love this signing for that reason. We won’t have to worry about Dak playing banged up(like he did some late last season).

Feel much more comfortable going into the season.

[Sgt Hulk 13786]

Show me a loss gentlemen 

[markstanco 12577]

Not better by any means (again, not a single person other than futureman would say that and he’s just trolling), but I like our backup qb situation as much as anyone’s in the league right now. Plus, the last time dalton had 3 good wrs (green, Marvin Jones, and Sanu) and a running game, he was a pretty decent qb. We can absolutely win games with Dalton if it comes down to it. This is not Brandon Weedon or Matt Cassell. 

Anytime I hear the name Matt cassell I think K-Swiss.

[Vic Mackey 47082]

 

[Vic Mackey 47082]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

In before idiots say “cowboys finally have a good starter QB” or “better than Dak”.

This is a great signing. And from FA through the Draft to this signing this just goes to show you the mentality of this group has changed. Finally a guy you don’t have to worry about if Dak gets hurt.

I have no idea why we signed Dalton. We have great backups in Cooper Rush and Mike White....

[Pato del Muerto 52526]

What happens with the cap if you are over after incentives are paid?

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What happens with the cap if you are over after incentives are paid?

Not sure if the new CBA changed it, but this is how it used to work and I think it works....

Quote

There are two different types of incentives, which are rewards for attaining certain goals. The first kind are likely to be earned (LTBE) incentives. LTBE incentives count against the salary cap at the beginning of the season, but if the player doesn’t earn the incentive, the team keeps the money and the corresponding cap space is carried over to the next season.

A bonus not likely to be earned (NLTBE) does not count against the salary cap, but is awarded to the player all the same.

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Now we need a fucking swing tackle. That is the #1 need now IMO. Flemming is gone, right? Who does that leave for swing tackle? Brandon Knight? Yeah, we need to sign someone. 

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Now we need a fucking swing tackle. That is the #1 need now IMO. Flemming is gone, right? Who does that leave for swing tackle? Brandon Knight? Yeah, we need to sign someone. 

Another LB and another safety too..... backup OL are usually available in TC and the experienced ones won't need too much time to get ready.  I'd still like to see Griffin too on a 1 year deal too.

[Pato del Muerto 52526]

48 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Not sure if the new CBA changed it, but this is how it used to work and I think it works....

 

If I understand the LTBE and NLTBE (which I think I read about in an article linked here discussing comp picks and winston’s contract with NO) they are based on the player’s previous season.  So most playing time and performance metric incentives for dalton would fall under LTBE and count against the cap. 

[markstanco 12577]

I have no idea why we signed Dalton. We have great backups in Cooper Rush and Mike White....

I hope i am picking up your sarcasm. Am I? Please tell me I am? Because they have both combined for completing like 4 passes since college. I think I know the answer.

[DougO 5250]

Cowboys are collecting all of the ginger QBs.

 

[Vic Mackey 47082]

23 minutes ago, markstanco said:

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

I have no idea why we signed Dalton. We have great backups in Cooper Rush and Mike White....

I hope i am picking up your sarcasm. Am I? Please tell me I am? Because they have both combined for completing like 4 passes since college. I think I know the answer.

Definite sarcasm.

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

3 hours ago, futureman said:

finally a proven starter at qb, a true #1.  better than fucking dak.  if he gets to play this season he isn’t coming out. 

 

[Vic Mackey 47082]

 

[hundredTT 578]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:35 PM, LTtxfan said:

Cowboys probably don't have enough salary cap room to sign Andy Dalton...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE

[Iceman 2717]

6 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

 

This will surely be the motivation the Cowboys' organization needs to get the deal with Dak hammered out.   LOLz.

 

Dez Bryant...a fount of solid judgment.

[Dewey 3286]

Went from having nothing behind Dak, which is idiotic for a competing team, to having a +quality backup. Saints last year with Teddy, NE back when Brady was injured or had to sit out some games. Dallas got an upgrade at a very important roster spot, big upgrade. 

Seems like Jerry is finally listening, first he hired some very good front office people, then he began to listen.  We all can remember way back when, when the likes of Quincy Carter was drafted, draft picks for Galloway and Roy Williams, Rocket, etc. This by comparison is fucking beautiful. 

[futureman 22485]

8 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

wow, 70% on dropback passes during garbage time of losses.  interesting.  
 

do you have his win percentage?  oh, right, it was 50%.  in the worst division in professional sports.  

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

I watched this video from start to finish. Please show me the throws that make him a difference maker at the position. I don’t know if there was a single throw that didn’t make me think “any starting qb in the nfl should be able to make these throws on a consistent basis.” 
 

All the offensive stats from last year were misleading. All of them. The analytics, the counting stats, the whole 9. We all watched the games against the saints, Jets, Pats, Bills, Bears, the eagles the 2nd time around. The offense couldn’t do shit in those games. And I’m not saying that’s Dak’s fault, or anyone’s fault in particular, I’m just saying stop pointing to the ridiculously misleading stats from our offense last year to prove any point about Dak. Just watch the fucking games. Those were huge games for us in terms of setting up the rest of the season and the offense was trash.

Edited May 3, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[zork 629]

Dalton's wife game:

https://heavy.com/sports/2014/08/jordan-jones-dalton-hot-andy-dalton-wife-girlfriend-instagram-twitter/

[Drew 2494]

I watched this video from start to finish. Please show me the throws that make him a difference maker at the position. I don’t know if there was a single throw that didn’t make me think “any starting qb in the nfl should be able to make these throws on a consistent basis.” 
 
All the offensive stats from last year were misleading. All of them. The analytics, the counting stats, the whole 9. We all watched the games against the saints, Jets, Pats, Bills, Bears, the eagles the 2nd time around. The offense couldn’t do shit in those games. And I’m not saying that’s Dak’s fault, or anyone’s fault in particular, I’m just saying stop pointing to the ridiculously misleading stats from our offense last year to prove any point about Dak. Just watch the fucking games. Those were huge games for us in terms of setting up the rest of the season and the offense was trash.

Once again people blame and give credit to QBs too much for wins and losses.

When DALLAS loses games, for whatever reason, you clowns say “Dak whet 8-8”. When they win 10-13 games you same idiots say “anyone can win with this talent”.

Fucking arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

Also, you can say none of those throws were “difference making” throws. But that’s not the point. Never was.

It’s the entirety of the way they play the position. Even great QBs with mediocre arms makes plays. And QBs with great arms can’t.

Thai stupid belief that Dak can’t throw, isn’t accurate at all, can’t win, etc...just continues to make you guys look mor and more ridiculous.

Especially with tons of stats and physical evidence to back it up.

Yes you can say Dak lost this game or that game. But I’ll say the TEAM lost those games.

Because you as fuck won’t blame the the defense and special teams for their 4-5 losses that REALLY cost the team the playoffs. You’ll just blame Dak because the offense slumped at the wrong time(and also ignore the coaching that we all wanted gone was partially or even majorly responsible for the way they approached games)

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I watched this video from start to finish. Please show me the throws that make him a difference maker at the position. I don’t know if there was a single throw that didn’t make me think “any starting qb in the nfl should be able to make these throws on a consistent basis.” 
 

All the offensive stats from last year were misleading. All of them. The analytics, the counting stats, the whole 9. We all watched the games against the saints, Jets, Pats, Bills, Bears, the eagles the 2nd time around. The offense couldn’t do shit in those games. And I’m not saying that’s Dak’s fault, or anyone’s fault in particular, I’m just saying stop pointing to the ridiculously misleading stats from our offense last year to prove any point about Dak. Just watch the fucking games. Those were huge games for us in terms of setting up the rest of the season and the offense was trash.

“Every other QB’s stats are real except for Dak’s” is a exceedingly ridiculous take to make. It’s one thing to say Dak isn’t worth top dollar it’s entirely another thing to seriously believe that the circumstances of Dak’s performances are wildly different from every other QB in the league. So much so that it renders all his resulting stats as totally insignificant. It’s a lazy ass take. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

20 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

“Every other QB’s stats are real except for Dak’s” is a exceedingly ridiculous take to make. It’s one thing to say Dak isn’t worth top dollar it’s entirely another thing to seriously believe that the circumstances of Dak’s performances are wildly different from every other QB in the league. So much so that it renders all his resulting stats as totally insignificant. It’s a lazy ass take. 

You’re putting words in my mouth now. I didn’t say every other QBs stats are real. Stats in general can be misleading. They are part of a piece to the puzzle when determining how good a player is. The stats said we had the best offense in the league last year, and our offensive DVOA was 2nd behind Baltimore. I bet you even Kellen Moore wouldn’t say we had the first or 2nd best offense in the league last year. The offense looked like it was stuck in the mud at times when we absolutely needed them not to (like the games I mentioned in my last post). Again, not saying that’s anybody’s fault, but it’s misleading to think we had one of the best offenses in the league last year when you watched how the season played out. And I’m not talking about the record. I’m talking about the flow of games. It wasn’t good when it absolutely needed to be, really at any point in the season. Even in games like the Vikings where Dak balled out against a bad Vikings pass defense. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

38 minutes ago, Drew said:

Once again people blame and give credit to QBs too much for wins and losses.

When DALLAS loses games, for whatever reason, you clowns say “Dak whet 8-8”. When they win 10-13 games you same idiots say “anyone can win with this talent”.

Fucking arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

Also, you can say none of those throws were “difference making” throws. But that’s not the point. Never was.

It’s the entirety of the way they play the position. Even great QBs with mediocre arms makes plays. And QBs with great arms can’t.

Thai stupid belief that Dak can’t throw, isn’t accurate at all, can’t win, etc...just continues to make you guys look mor and more ridiculous.

Especially with tons of stats and physical evidence to back it up.

Yes you can say Dak lost this game or that game. But I’ll say the TEAM lost those games.

Because you as fuck won’t blame the the defense and special teams for their 4-5 losses that REALLY cost the team the playoffs. You’ll just blame Dak because the offense slumped at the wrong time(and also ignore the coaching that we all wanted gone was partially or even majorly responsible for the way they approached games)

Drew, stfu. Reread my post and show me how your reply makes any fucking sense. I even specifically said that I don’t necessarily blame Dak for those games, verbatim. 

[Iceman 2717]

Obviously you left some doubt, as to your complete and total loyalty...

 

LOlz.  I love this thread.  The only thing that will ever solve the debate is playing the games.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Iceman

[futureman 22485]

4 minutes ago, Iceman said:

LOlz.  I love this thread.  The only thing that will ever solve the debate is playing the games.

dak has played the games.  and he has one wild-card win in four years with a stacked roster.  everyone in the league knows what he is.

[Iceman 2717]

1 minute ago, futureman said:

dak has played the games.  and he has one wild-card win in four years with a stacked roster.  everyone in the league knows what he is.

Prove it year, without Jason Garrett in the mix.

 

Remember the Ginger?  I'm willing to let Dak make me forget.  Glad he got tagged.  It's gonna work out OK, either way.

[futureman 22485]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Prove it year, without Jason Garrett in the mix.

 

Remember the Ginger?  I'm willing to let Dak make me forget.  Glad he got tagged.  It's gonna work out OK, either way.

I sort of agree with you, but bowling ball mccarthy wasn’t exactly a world beater with one of the most talented quarterbacks in the history of the world.  you really he’ll do all right with dak as his qb?  don’t hold your breath. 

[Nicole44 22061]

Dak and his agent need to take what the Cowboys offered. I really think those reports about him wanting $40 million A year aren’t that far off the truth. With the draft and the Dalton pick up we’ve had a pretty darn good couple of weeks. So if Dak decides to blow off virtual camp etc and holds out at least we have someone who will show up and has proven he can win games in a horribly dysfunctional organization. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

You’re putting words in my mouth now. I didn’t say every other QBs stats are real. Stats in general can be misleading. They are part of a piece to the puzzle when determining how good a player is. The stats said we had the best offense in the league last year, and our offensive DVOA was 2nd behind Baltimore. I bet you even Kellen Moore wouldn’t say we had the first or 2nd best offense in the league last year. The offense looked like it was stuck in the mud at times when we absolutely needed them not to (like the games I mentioned in my last post). Again, not saying that’s anybody’s fault, but it’s misleading to think we had one of the best offenses in the league last year when you watched how the season played out. And I’m not talking about the record. I’m talking about the flow of games. It wasn’t good when it absolutely needed to be, really at any point in the season. Even in games like the Vikings where Dak balled out against a bad Vikings pass defense. 

A big component of how effective an offense is, is based on how well the defense and special teams set them up in advantageous field position. Shit, the very fact that the offense can finish so highly in areas such as offensive DVOA (which I believe is a score and time dependent stat, essentially eliminating inconsequential offensive scoring and yardage) without the team being more successful is a clear indictment of how poorly the defense and special teams were wrt setting up field position.  I think even Bob Sturm or someone like him presented in his blog/ athletic article how the 2019 Cowboys were a historic, statistical marvel in terms of having the offensive success we had without yielding more successful team results. Many of you guys refuse to acknowledge or at the very least are greatly under appreciating how much of a handicap it is to have a defense and special teams that is among the worst in the league at making plays.  

Edited May 3, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[LTtxfan 49253]

16 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

 

 

Like that Cowboys now have solid backup QB, but not sure from the current Cowboys salary cap situation that this is the best use of a $3mill gtd/1yr contract that possibly escalates to $7mill??

BTW... How much are the Bengals having to pay Dalton this season?

Edited May 3, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Vic Mackey 47082]

2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Like that Cowboys now have solid backup QB, but not sure from the current Cowboys salary cap situation that this is the best use of a $3mill gtd/1yr contract that possibly escalates to $7mill??

BTW... How much are the Bengals having to pay Dalton this season?

We are fine with the cap situation. This will be no biggie. What else would we be using that money for at the time? We desperately needed a backup QB worth a damn. We might have had the worst backups in the league.

[futureman 22485]

19 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Dak and his agent need to take what the Cowboys offered.

the offer is no longer on the table.  he will have a prove-it year playing on the tag. 
 

narrator: he will not “prove it”

[Matuka 1310]

4 minutes ago, futureman said:

the offer is no longer on the table.  he will have a prove-it year playing on the tag. 
 

narrator: he will not “prove it”

until Dak accepts the franchise tag, the Cowboys can withdraw the tag and a deal can be done.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/02/could-cowboys-rescind-dak-prescotts-franchise-tag/

[futureman 22485]

I know.  I’m saying that with corona and the uncertainty of these trying times the offer has been rescinded.  they are not throwing out $100MM plus in guaranteed money right now.  he will play on the tag. 

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

29 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Like that Cowboys now have solid backup QB, but not sure from the current Cowboys salary cap situation that this is the best use of a $3mill gtd/1yr contract that possibly escalates to $7mill??

BTW... How much are the Bengals having to pay Dalton this season?

It's about 1million more than they'd have to pay Cooper Rush.  The 4 million is probably based on game starts and production based performance he would be unlikely to make unless Dak got hurt or didn't report.  The Bengals aren't paying him anything.  Not sure how this isn't a win on almost every level, cap situation included.  

A few other positives to remember.  First, we play the AFC North this year, don't you think Dalton may be invaluable helping prep for these teams.  Second, if he was forced to play and played well, if he were to be signed away by another team after the 2020 season, you almost surely get a compensation pick.  If he decides he likes being a backup and being home, then you've found your backup QB for the next 5 years.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Pato del Muerto 52526]

23 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

We are fine with the cap situation. This will be no biggie. What else would we be using that money for at the time? We desperately needed a backup QB worth a damn. We might have had the worst backups in the league.

Paying near 40 million for the qb position shouldn’t be a big deal. 

[Iceman 2717]

7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Paying near 40 million for the qb position shouldn’t be a big deal. 

Then why is no team in the league doing that?

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

12 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Then why is no team in the league doing that?

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Because Mahomes and Watson havent signed extensions yet. 

[Iceman 2717]

24 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Because Mahomes and Watson havent signed extensions yet. 

LOlz.  That's the crux of the debate ain't it, whether or not  Dak belongs in that tier of contract.  The post above makes it sounds as if it's commonplace.

FYI, KC just exercised Mahomes' Option for 2021 season.  He's gonna make $885k* in 2020 and $28MM* next year.   Word is that they are amicably working on a new contract, as he's proven to be somewhat OK at the position.

* may not be exact numbers, but in that ballpark.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Iceman

[LTtxfan 49253]

Sounds like I was wrong!!

Thx to @Vic Mackey & @Patrick Bateman for explanations on Dalton's contract being ok under the salary cap.

I definitely think Dalton is a huge upgrade at the backup QB spot.  Hope they let Cooper Rush go...

[Trey3216 15347]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

I sort of agree with you, but bowling ball mccarthy wasn’t exactly a world beater with one of the most talented quarterbacks in the history of the world.  you really he’ll do all right with dak as his qb?  don’t hold your breath. 

You know how many TD passes Aaron Rodgers has thrown to a 1st round WR/TE pick in his career??

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

5 minutes ago, Iceman said:

LOlz.  That's the crux of the debate ain't it, whether or not  Dak belongs in that tier of contract.  The post above makes it sounds as if it's commonplace.

FYI, KC just exercised Mahomes' Option for 2021 season.  He's gonna make $885k* in 2020 and $28MM* next year.   Word is that they are amicably working on a new contract, as he's proven to be somewhat OK at the position.

* may not be exact numbers, but in that ballpark.

Bitch all you want, but ~ 40mil per year for a good starting QB will become commonplace in the next few years. Elite QBs will be pushing 50+. 

[futureman 22485]

8 minutes ago, Iceman said:

FYI, KC just exercised Mahomes' Option for 2021 season.  He's gonna make $885k* in 2020 and $28MM* next year. 

$28MM for the 5th year option?  surely you are mistaken. 

[Nicole44 22061]

I understand going after the most money you can get. I totally understand. I just don’t think Dak and his agent are adept at reading the room. Sure in a normal year they’d ask for the top and Jerry would probably bend over and give them everything they asked for and more.

But after losing the division last year, Jerry did something I never thought he would do: fire Garrett. He kicked his ass out the door. After the season we had one would think that Dak and his agent should have negotiated something with the Cowboys. Instead it’s been a stalemate since before our shitty season started. Read the room. Jerry got rid of Garrett. We now have a Probowl back up QB who just happens to also like living in Dallas. If need be we can use him until we have to draft a QB. I know that a deal will probably get done since the deadline is July 15 and honestly that’s probably what they are shooting for anyway and will likely bend over when that time comes.
 

But this just feels like a different year. I never thought Jerruh would fire Garrett. But when we lost to the Eagles when Wentz was basically throwing to dudes from the practice squad Jerruh had finally had enough. A hold out with a new coach is never a good look. Jmo. 

[Iceman 2717]

13 minutes ago, futureman said:

$28MM for the 5th year option?  surely you are mistaken. 

I stand corrected.  That fifth year $24, 837,000...LOlz.

for 2020 his cap number is $5,316,413.  Base salary is $825k with roster and signing bonuses.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/

 

Why is that relevant to our discussion?  The Chiefs are working on getting Mahomes extended.  If he signs it before Dak, it kind of limits what Dak can ask for.

I know that will likely bother people to suggest the notion that Dak is not in that Tier of QB.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Iceman