Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Levi 2,590]

7 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

They used to draft well,  but they haven't sustained the type of drafting success that yielded them Wilson,  Sherman,  Earl, Bobby Wagner, etc in the past. 

Those years would be hard for any franchise to replicate or keep a consistent trajectory but I still think they haven’t been below average since imo. 

[Hate 20,130]

See, the funny thing is, they don’t draft that well compared to other teams. Russ is just that one of the handful of actual elite QBs. And it’s funny you mention this game and that year for the Seahawks, considering their game plan was “let’s take the ball out of our best players hands (Russ) and play into the cowboys strength (our run d that year).” 
 
Seattle message boards were rioting. Then, they fired their OC, Russ has an MVP caliber year, and they’re a goal line stand away from being the 2 seed. 
 
And I’ve often heard people compare Dak and Russ and their first couple of years. But i would argue that even though Russ didn’t have the numbers, you could just see a difference in how he affected games with his legs. Nothing crazy, just little shit like picking up 15 yards on a 3rd and 6 because he willingly decided to take off and run. If Dak doesn’t start using his legs, I personally don’t think he ever turns into the guy that we hope he turns into.

How many times last year did Dak have a first down if he runs, only to try to thread a needle into some covered WR or throw a bad pass to a RB? Some players make good decisions under pressure and some make stupid decisions under pressure. Dak too often makes stupid decisions.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

10 minutes ago, DoneWithit said:

Those years would be hard for any franchise to replicate or keep a consistent trajectory but I still think they haven’t been below average since imo. 

They had a run of amazing defensive drafts. They really haven’t drafted that well since they blew up their defense. But when you have a guy like Russ, nothing else matters. You’re going to hover anywhere between 10-6 and 12-4 every year with a guy like that 

[Iceman 2,724]

10 hours ago, Hate said:

How many times last year did Dak have a first down if he runs, only to try to thread a needle into some covered WR or throw a bad pass to a RB? Some players make good decisions under pressure and some make stupid decisions under pressure. Dak too often makes stupid decisions.

Not sure that is a fair assessment given who his head corch/ shot caller was.   Prescott has protected the ball pretty damned well, as it has been one of his strengths.  The running is one part of the game I want to see this coming season with different leadership.  I am only suggesting he might have been coached to react that way.

The biggest point of optimism this coming season is new coaching.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

I think Dak's lack of running ties in with his lack of INTs and how long he holds onto the ball in the pocket. He seems to be overly cautious to his detriment at times. 

[Hate 20,130]

It’s not lack of caution as he’s tried throwing the ball into tight windows. Fortunately, that hasn’t resulted in turnovers, but it has caused drives to stall. What game was it last year when he tried to throw the ball to Zeke who was basically on the sideline instead if running the ball for a first down? I’m pretty sure it was on a 4th down in the 4th quarter to keep a drive going. Instead of using his legs for a first down when the field was wide open for him, he attempted to hit Zeke who was falling out of bounds. He did similarly stupid things several times throughout the season. I don’t know if it’s coaching or Dak wanting to prove he’s great, but it was stupid. Would Garrett really care if Dak used to legs to keep moving the chains?

['stache 21,827]

16 hours ago, Hate said:

How many times last year did Dak have a first down if he runs, only to try to thread a needle into some covered WR or throw a bad pass to a RB? Some players make good decisions under pressure and some make stupid decisions under pressure. Dak too often makes stupid decisions.

How many times did he make a good throw in that situation? And how many times has a QB taken what looks like an opening to find out that a defender has an angle or is just super fast and it closes before the sticks? 

That's not to disagree. I'd like to see Dak use his legs more. But I want to see him keep improving his passing game. It could be he wants to be sure to avoid being pegged as a "running QB" which is something black QBs for years were stigmatized with, but that has kind of changed recently so maybe that's not part of it.

I would also like to see some designed run plays for him, but very rarely so as to make it effective. Once or twice a game tops in key situations. 

[Iceman 2,724]

FWIW, Daks runs were decreased by about 33% in 2019 vs 2018 and his fumbles decreased exponentially.

His legs still can be a threat to make the defense pay.  Ginger went a bit too consrvative in 2019 and it showed.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,400]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

FWIW, Daks runs were decreased by about 33% in 2019 vs 2018 and his fumbles decreased exponentially.

His legs still can be a threat to make the defense pay.  Ginger went a bit too consrvative in 2019 and it showed.

I think it was also Dak not wanting to take too many risks without a new contract. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,553]

53 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I think it was also Dak not wanting to take too many risks without a new contract. 

I’d like to believe that because it should mean that he won’t be so conservative once he gets a deal. But it also means he will likely not change if playing on the tag, and it means that he was thinking about that during plays instead of reacting to what he saw. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’d like to believe that because it should mean that he won’t be so conservative once he gets a deal. But it also means he will likely not change if playing on the tag, and it means that he was thinking about that during plays instead of reacting to what he saw. 

Its kinda like pre marriage though, if the BJs are drying up prior to the ceremony, outlook not so good on BJ supply going forward. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

Dak vs Wentz comparison written by a Philly fan. 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2020/5/25/21269432/carson-wentz-dak-prescott-debate-philadelphia-eagles-dallas-cowboys-comparison

"The Prescott v. Wentz debate is a natural extension off of the Eagles/Cowboys rivalry, and is only heightened by their shared draft class and disparity in draft stock; the inability of any NFC East team to win the division in consecutive seasons; and, of course, our exacerbated offseason boredom in 2020.

As such, I cast aside my fan goggles as best I could and dove into Wentz and Prescott film from the last three seasons, targeting best/worst performances, top DVOA defenses, and divisional rivalries to get a full taste of each quarterback’s abilities and growth. I’ll tell you now, as a disclaimer: I didn’t walk away convinced of anything, though I was surprised with the results of my film study in multiple areas.

Before I get into what I saw, however, a moment for the necessary caveats."

 

[Iceman 2,724]

23 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I think it was also Dak not wanting to take too many risks without a new contract. 

I believe a contract Might drive one’s commitment/ determination in the big picture.   I have a hard time believing he’s rolling out and avoids throwing to the line to gain because, ‘ oh noes, my contract!’

[Drew 2,511]

Agreed. You can say what you want about him, but he's not playing it safe last year because he's worried about his contract.  Otherwise he's not flinging it all over the field with a ton of deep passes that could be intercepted.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

I believe a contract Might drive one’s commitment/ determination in the big picture.   I have a hard time believing he’s rolling out and avoids throwing to the line to gain because, ‘ oh noes, my contract!’

Air Yards to the Sticks (AYTS)

Air Yards to the Sticks shows the amount of Air Yards ahead or behind the first down marker on all attempts for a passer. The metric indicates if the passer is attempting his passes past the 1st down marker, or if he is relying on his skill position players to make yards after catch.

Dak ranks 4th in the league in the above stat. 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-yards-to-sticks

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

 

 

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

 

[Iceman 2,724]

gimme more stats...

lubing up for fap action...

OMFG the stats you people come up with.  

[Iceman 2,724]

[futureman 22,517]

has there ever been a more coordinated effort to collectively apologize for a player’s inability to win games?  at what point will most of you idiots understand that the need to continually insist that someone is good kinda precludes them from being good.  it’s something that should be self-evident.  and yet the rational folks like myself just get beaten over the head with spreadsheets and misplaced blame aimed at everyone on the team who isn’t touching the ball on every snap. 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

This is the best take on Dak and the offense in 2019 IMO. Nobody can blame Dak for what happened last year. Nobody can blame the offense for what happened last year. But you’re crazy if you don’t think the offense played a huge factor in us going 8-8 and you’re crazy if you don’t think Dak was part of those slow starts. In just about every game our offense game out of the gate playing like shit. If you’re Mina Kimes and you say there’s no such thing as momentum, then fine. But it seemed like we had to really play tug of war to get that momentum back after the first quarter of every game. And what made it frustrating is you knew what the offense was capable of. It seemed like we were playing from behind against every team that had a pulse last year (minus the rams game), and we definitely didn’t have any wins where we were trailing at halftime. All the impressive stats don’t tell the full story, and all the slow starts and lack of clutch plays don’t tell the full story. It’s all part of the story.

Edited May 27, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Vic Mackey 47,104]

[Iceman 2,724]

Troy handpicked David LaFleur.

Meh.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Iceman

[Nicole44 22,072]

Contract negotiations for Mahomes have begun. Wonder how long they will take? 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/28/report-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-commence-contract-negotiations/

it does matter overall if the negotiations are completed before a deal with Dak is made. And Cowboys still have until July 15.

[DougO 5,254]

The deficit stats only tell me what we all know. The Cowboys were horrible at game planning and preparation for each opponent. Those games were all against teams that the Cowboys don't see regularly. They prepared much better than the Cowboys did against them. In division games it's not as bad because division teams all know each other well.

The QB situation is still in flux. Dak has looked like a real good one at tines, a real meh... one at other times. We don't know how Dak will play with a new head coach and a new offensive scheme and even a new weapon or two. Garrett's ancient out-dated style and lack of ability to adapt, adjust and evolve with modern football was the biggest constant in his era of mediocrity. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like after a couple of years with a new regime, though I don't have the utmost confidence in McCarthy, either. At least it should be somewhat different, even if it's a different style of mediocrity. We'll soon find out more about Dak.

[Iceman 2,724]

5 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Contract negotiations for Mahomes have begun. Wonder how long they will take? 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/28/report-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-commence-contract-negotiations/

it does matter overall if the negotiations are completed before a deal with Dak is made. And Cowboys still have until July 15.

If he gives KC a hometown discount, which is almost a certainty if he wants any teammates worth a fuck, it damned well will impact QBs who sign afterwords.

[TonyTexas 10,520]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

If he gives KC a hometown discount, which is almost a certainty if he wants any teammates worth a fuck, it damned well will impact QBs who sign afterwords.

Whitehouse, Texas will need a discount if it hopes to keep the Dairy Queen and Dollar Store in town. 

[Iceman 2,724]

2 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Whitehouse, Texas will need a discount if it hopes to keep the Dairy Queen and Dollar Store in town. 

LOLz.  not that hometown.

 

Ok, call it the "Andy is my daddy and I love himz" Discount.

[Ryno 127]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Whitehouse, Texas will need a discount if it hopes to keep the Dairy Queen and Dollar Store in town. 

I’ll have you know that Dollar General was built in the past decade. Making it the newest building in town

[perfectchaos007 6,677]

Whitehouse TX sounds familiar. Isn't that where Tyrone Swooooopes was from?

[Iceman 2,724]

Whitewright for Swoopes.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:33 AM, Iceman said:

Whitewright for Swoopes.

Oh right, cause its all wright if its all white. 

[Iceman 2,724]

[LTtxfan 49,327]

 

[Vic Mackey 47,104]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:09 PM, Iceman said:

If he gives KC a hometown discount, which is almost a certainty if he wants any teammates worth a fuck, it damned well will impact QBs who sign afterwords.

He'd be stupid to give any discount. Get your money. All of it. He already won an  MVP and a Super Bowl. In his second year as a starter. He doesn't have anything to prove to anyone.  The only people advocating discounts is the greedy owners and fans. The players want all what is coming to him. They know the the game. 

[futureman 22,517]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

The only people advocating discounts is the greedy owners and fans.

a quarterback taking a discount has nothing to do with greedy owners.  it’s a salary cap league.  it has to do with GMs wanting to be able to pay more money to good players who are not the quarterback.  the only greedy owners are in baseball.  e.g. whoever owns the oakland a’s

Edited June 2, 2020 by futureman

[Gucci_Suit 2,655]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

a quarterback taking a discount has nothing to do with greedy owners.  it’s a salary cap league.  it has to do with GMs wanting to be able to pay more money to good players who are not the quarterback.  the only greedy owners are in baseball.  e.g. whoever owns the oakland a’s

Fuck the oakland a’s. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

Bill Barnwell comes down on the Dak contract discussion.  

"The biggest reason he would want to wait, as I've mentioned before, is what might be coming in 2022 and beyond. The league has already added two playoff teams to the mix for an extra playoff game. Its remaining television deals expire after 2021 (ESPN) and 2022 (CBS, NBC, and Fox). Projections suggest the league could double its rights feesfrom $7.5 billion to $15 billion.

In the process, the salary cap could skyrocket. The cap stands at $198.6 million and has jumped by an average of about 6% over the past seven seasons. After the league renegotiates the deals, the cap could jump dramatically. As was the case in the NBA, when players who came free at the right time ended up signing massive deals, NFL players will want to time their free agency for the moment after those rights fees hit if the cap rises by 15-20%.

The Cowboys would struggle to franchise tag Prescott in 2022, when it would cost the organization $54.3 million for a one-year deal. He would then become an unrestricted free agent, where he would have a massive amount of leverage in a league in which the cap was either undergoing or about to undergo a dramatic shift forward. After collecting that $69.1 million for two years with the Cowboys, Prescott could hit the market and sign a deal that seems ridiculous right now. Cousins signed a fully guaranteed, three-year, $84 million deal with the Vikings when that average salary represented 15.8% of the cap. Apply that same percentage to a $250 million cap in 2022, and Prescott could sign a three-year deal for $118.5 million, meaning he would take home nearly $188 million over a five-year period from 2020 to 2024. All of that money would be guaranteed and he would get a third crack at free agency before he turns 31."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29247938/debunking-dak-prescott-contract-debate-facts-fiction-why-cowboys-pay-him?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

[futureman 22,517]

lulz

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Bill Barnwell comes down on the Dak contract discussion.  

"The biggest reason he would want to wait, as I've mentioned before, is what might be coming in 2022 and beyond. The league has already added two playoff teams to the mix for an extra playoff game. Its remaining television deals expire after 2021 (ESPN) and 2022 (CBS, NBC, and Fox). Projections suggest the league could double its rights feesfrom $7.5 billion to $15 billion.

In the process, the salary cap could skyrocket. The cap stands at $198.6 million and has jumped by an average of about 6% over the past seven seasons. After the league renegotiates the deals, the cap could jump dramatically. As was the case in the NBA, when players who came free at the right time ended up signing massive deals, NFL players will want to time their free agency for the moment after those rights fees hit if the cap rises by 15-20%.

The Cowboys would struggle to franchise tag Prescott in 2022, when it would cost the organization $54.3 million for a one-year deal. He would then become an unrestricted free agent, where he would have a massive amount of leverage in a league in which the cap was either undergoing or about to undergo a dramatic shift forward. After collecting that $69.1 million for two years with the Cowboys, Prescott could hit the market and sign a deal that seems ridiculous right now. Cousins signed a fully guaranteed, three-year, $84 million deal with the Vikings when that average salary represented 15.8% of the cap. Apply that same percentage to a $250 million cap in 2022, and Prescott could sign a three-year deal for $118.5 million, meaning he would take home nearly $188 million over a five-year period from 2020 to 2024. All of that money would be guaranteed and he would get a third crack at free agency before he turns 31."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29247938/debunking-dak-prescott-contract-debate-facts-fiction-why-cowboys-pay-him?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

So outside of the security of not being on a one year deal, why wouldn’t Dak and his agent willingly just take the franchise tag for the next two years and to the cousins route. If what he cares about is money and he doesn’t really care about being a cowboy (and other than the endorsements, why would he?), why wouldn’t he just lean into the cousins strategy of making as much money as possible through the franchise tag.

[Pato del Muerto 52,553]

Because Dallas won’t tag him next season so he’d hit fa a year too early. 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Because Dallas won’t tag him next season so he’d hit fa a year too early. 

My point still stands though. Regardless of when we stop tagging him, barring injury, there’s no scenario where he would make more money (on a yearly basis and guaranteed money) this year vs any contract that he signs next year or the year after. So why wouldn’t he just take his 31mil guaranteed this year and let us (or someone else) pay him next year?

[Hate 20,130]

5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

He'd be stupid to give any discount. Get your money. All of it. He already won an  MVP and a Super Bowl. In his second year as a starter. He doesn't have anything to prove to anyone.  The only people advocating discounts is the greedy owners and fans. The players want all what is coming to him. They know the the game. 

List all of the highest paid QB's in the league that have won a Super Bowl? 

23 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

So outside of the security of not being on a one year deal, why wouldn’t Dak and his agent willingly just take the franchise tag for the next two years and to the cousins route. If what he cares about is money and he doesn’t really care about being a cowboy (and other than the endorsements, why would he?), why wouldn’t he just lean into the cousins strategy of making as much money as possible through the franchise tag.

He won't make as much endorsement money playing for another team.  Nobody (advertisers) will care about Dak if he isn't on the Cowboys.  If he cares about maximizing his earning potential, he needs to remain a Cowboy. 

[futureman 22,517]

28 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

there’s no scenario where he would make more money (on a yearly basis and guaranteed money) this year vs any contract that he signs next year or the year after

are you dense?  another .500 no-playoffs season and he is not getting a top five deal from anyone in the NFL.  maybe in canada. 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

5 minutes ago, futureman said:

are you dense?  another .500 no-playoffs season and he is not getting a top five deal from anyone in the NFL.  maybe in canada. 

I think you’re probably right, but I can already see a team like the redskins giving up on Haskins after next year and going all in on Dak. I’m starting to believe he’s going to get his money from some idiot team no matter what. But it will he from an idiot team. Possibly us.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

27 minutes ago, Hate said:

He won't make as much endorsement money playing for another team.  Nobody (advertisers) will care about Dak if he isn't on the Cowboys.  If he cares about maximizing his earning potential, he needs to remain a Cowboy. 

A couple of points on that, because i used to agree with you:

1. I’m curious to see how much money he actually gets from these endorsement deals. Because he has at least 7 different endorsement deals that I know of off the top of my head.

2. I think after all of this is said and done, his name will talked about so much that I think the cowboy shine will follow him wherever he goes (especially if it’s a team like the redskins or the who have a pretty big fan base). Plus, when you say the name Dak, every football fan knows exactly who you’re talking about. That isn’t the case with most qbs, especially qbs that are peers to Dak. 

[Drew 2,511]

Cowboys aren't going .500 again.  They NEVER follow up a bad season with another one...not since the 8-8 Garrett years, and before that Campo.

They're winning double digit games, if only because that's what they do after a mediocre year.