Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

8 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

All or nothing made me actually like the person Jason Garrett, but hate the head coach Jason Garrett. He seems like he’s genuinely a good dude and I’m sure it’s a small part of the reason the Jones family had trouble letting him go. 
 

But god damn he is it fit to be an NFL head coach. He’s the type that should be in college so he could recruit. IMO, he has a lot of Mack Brown in him. He should settle in at some mediocre ACC school or Pac 12 school, be rewarded for finishing 7-5 or 8-4 (the college equivalent of 8-8 as far as I’m concerned lol)

Same here. I came away liking Garrett a lot. I'll even go one step further and say that Garrett actually proved to be a strong leader of men whose coaching faults wrt game management and being ridiculously risk averse were his main impediments. 

[markstanco 12786]

I want us to trade Dak just so this god damn moronic back and forth on this thread will stop. 

Futureman too wants to trade him for a 12 pack of dr pepper.

[markstanco 12786]

Mahomes is so good. Crwzy numbers.

[Iceman 2978]

9 hours ago, markstanco said:

Mahomes is so good. Crwzy numbers.

Dak is right there though.  I mean, every time a watch a Cowboys game I am amazed at how Dak similarly affects opposing defenses. His defenders on here love posting stats, but Mahomes just has copious amounts of highlights and gamechanging plays. Mahomesis just barely better...

[EastTexan 672]

On May 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM, Patrick Bateman said:

Cool.  Now that we have that out of the way.

Here's shit that drives me fucking crazy.  Stupidity in special teams play which lead to us having one of the worst special teams unit in the NFL last year.

Dwayne Harris?  Our return games and ST overall has been lacking.  They should just take a touchback every available time.

I miss Coach Joe.

[Iceman 2978]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Dude go post in a Texans thread about how you like attending their games. We don’t need Drew and Vic insisting he’s great when we know he’s not. But we also don’t need Sand Aggy telling us what we already know about Mahomes. 

Thank you for the feedback.  Now go fuck yourself.

[Patrick Bateman 3969]

It's funny..... all the hand wringing over Dak's contract because he make 2-4 million more per season than maybe his innate value, but Zeke's making about 10 million too much from a AAV standpoint and probably ends up a much bigger onus vs the cap.  Pollard needs more touches.  

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Unfortunately we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube on the Zeke contract because you’re absolutely right. It might be at the point where it should be closer to a 60/40 split, if for no other reason, so Zeke is still fresh in the 4th quarter. But it’ll never happen...because of that contract.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

The MLS has a rule where you can pay one player whatever the hell you want and it doesn’t go against your salary cap. That seems like the most logical solution to handling these qb salaries. 

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

9 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The MLS has a rule where you can pay one player whatever the hell you want and it doesn’t go against your salary cap. That seems like the most logical solution to handling these qb salaries. 

Wouldn't think the owners would go for that

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

Wouldn't think the owners would go for that

Sure, but only because they know they have no self control. I couldn’t imagine how much mahomes would make on an open market with no cap 

[futureman 22699]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Sure, but only because they know they have no self control. I couldn’t imagine how much mahomes would make on an open market with no cap 

I think many of them do, but they know it only takes a couple who don't.  Even if 31/32 GMs wouldn't give mahomes $400MM guaranteed, they know mark davis might.

[Vic Mackey 47953]

3 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

The MLS has a rule where you can pay one player whatever the hell you want and it doesn’t go against your salary cap. That seems like the most logical solution to handling these qb salaries. 

And I have seen many people advocate this. With how high these QB's salaries get, it makes sense. But the owners will never go for it because no way in hell they are spending anymore on their roster than they have to. But it would make it very interesting on the open market. Say Mahomes wanted to test the waters under this format. Jerry could give him a $350mill contract if he wanted and not have it count against the cap. The bidding wars would be fun to watch. 

Mahomes in a true open market with no limitations is probably worth $400mill easy.

[Iceman 2978]

3 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Wouldn't think the owners would go for that

why?  if the player warrants it, anyone not named Cincinnati or Cleveland would be willing to pay it.  Just charge the team like a certain percentage of the cap for their 'exception' player.

Early on in the Dak discussion, I said whatever the Cowboys pay Dak doesn't matter to me, save for its impact upon their salary cap and ability to retain/attract players.  I still feel that way.

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

1 minute ago, Iceman said:

why?  if the player warrants it, anyone not named Cincinnati or Cleveland would be willing to pay it.  Just charge the team like a certain percentage of the cap for their 'exception' player.

Early on in the Dak discussion, I said whatever the Cowboys pay Dak doesn't matter to me, save for its impact upon their salary cap and ability to retain/attract players.  I still feel that way.

The same reason they have a salary cap in the first place, the owners want to keep their slice of the pie as big as possible and the players slice as small as possible.  Maybe they'd go for it but not without getting something in return.

[Iceman 2978]

The franchise and transition tags do not work as originally intended.

make the exception player actually a franchise player and a salary Kaep exception.

Maybe I’m just naïve, but for some owners the salary cap actually saves them from themselves. There are owners out there who want to win and would pay more. For all of his faults, Jerry is right in middle of that discussion

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

20 minutes ago, Iceman said:

The franchise and transition tags do not work as originally intended.

make the exception player actually a franchise player and a salary Kaep exception.

Maybe I’m just naïve, but for some owners the salary cap actually saves them from themselves. There are owners out there who want to win and would pay more. For all of his faults, Jerry is right in middle of that discussion

That's exactly what a salary cap does.  Stops the owners from overspending and costing themselves money.  The owner that overspends and wins championships would feel fine, but the others wouldn't, so for the collective good of the owners they have a cap.  Money > Winning.  Besides there isn't much competitive advantage outside of eliminating a few cheapskate owners.  It's not like they all aren't billionaires who don't have money to spend.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

So LVE is claiming he feels as healthy as he's ever felt throughout his short time in the NFL. I feel like his injury and D-Law taking a step back were easily the biggest reasons our defense shit the bed last year. Get those guys back into form, hope the offense is what we think it is, and who knows...

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

So LVE is claiming he feels as healthy as he's ever felt throughout his short time in the NFL. I feel like his injury and D-Law taking a step back were easily the biggest reasons our defense shit the bed last year. Get those guys back into form, hope the offense is what we think it is, and who knows...

Dlaw didn't really take a step back in terms of hurries and pass rush win rate. It's just that the interior of the Dline sucked and they  weren't able to command double teams so Lawrence's total number of sacks went down. Sacks are sort of a hit and miss stat where luck is a significant factor so I wouldn't only look at his dropoff in sacks as the sole reason he had a bad year. Lawrence finished 3rd in the league among DE/OLBs behind Robert Quinn and TJ Watt in pass rush win rate. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

7 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Dlaw didn't really take a step back in terms of hurries and pass rush win rate. It's just that the interior of the Dline sucked and they  weren't able to command double teams so Lawrence's total number of sacks went down. Sacks are sort of a hit and miss stat where luck is a significant factor so I wouldn't only look at his dropoff in sacks as the sole reason he had a bad year. Lawrence finished 3rd in the league among DE/OLBs behind Robert Quinn and TJ Watt in pass rush win rate. 

Damn I didn’t realize that. Seems like that should lead to more sacks. Taco had more sacks than D-Law, so that’s shocking actually? Almost doubled him. You’d think you would have a better defense if you had two of the top 3 guys in pass rush win rate. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

12 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Damn I didn’t realize that. Seems like that should lead to more sacks. Taco had more sacks than D-Law, so that’s shocking actually? Almost doubled him. You’d think you would have a better defense if you had two of the top 3 guys in pass rush win rate. 

QBs get rid of the ball really quick these days. So having a dominant pass rush is limited if your defensive secondary is passive. And our defense and overall scheme under Marinelli and Richard was anything but aggressive. 

[Drew 2925]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:55 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

Indeed. It’s an embarrassment to Cowboys fans. I mean we have Vic and his cholas and Cowboys tailgating, and Drew. I’ll trade those two to Houston for Icono and TonyTexas straight up. 

Coming from this ass clown.  The fact you got futureman in your corner shows EVERYONE what a worthless piece of shit you are and that you have NO clue about anything.

Why you keep following me around and trash talking I have no clue.  You just have nothing of substance to say, so instead of saying even more stupid shit and being called on, why not just keep bashing on ME since I won't succumb to the idiotic group think on this thread about Dak.

Ya'll continue to show you are complete an utter morons who have, for some reason, fell into Futureman's trolling trap, and have been living on his every word of hate toward Dak, without realizing that not even HE believes a damned thing he's saying.

On 5/17/2020 at 8:20 AM, Iceman said:

Dak is right there though.  I mean, every time a watch a Cowboys game I am amazed at how Dak similarly affects opposing defenses. His defenders on here love posting stats, but Mahomes just has copious amounts of highlights and gamechanging plays. Mahomesis just barely better...

Not a single fucking poster as said anything like this. Not one.

As a matter of fact that closest anyone has gotten to it is ME saying that Dak having Reid as a coach would make him a perennial MVP candidate, and that Mahomes under Garrett would struggle, and I STILL said Mahomes was so fucking good he'd probably be the one that could overcome Garrett's coaching.

Mahomes is the best QB in the game and it's not close.  

Who the fuck has ever claimed Dak was even close to his level?

[futureman 22699]

lulz.  unhinged drew is the best drew. 

[Iceman 2978]

5 minutes ago, Drew said:

Who the fuck has ever claimed Dak was even close to his level?

Then why the fuck do people keep posting stats to say the guy is in the same discussion, in order to justify the alleged compensation he's seeking?  It's been done multiple times in the thread.

It's like this cocksucker at the 8:00 mark.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Iceman

[Drew 2925]

Oh. My.  God.  Seriously?

 

When someone posts a stat that Mahomes is #1 in and Dak is #2 in, all that's saying is that "Hey, he must not be the average, or trash, QB people claim he is".  That's it.  I mean Mahomes was far and away the #1 guy...Dak wasn't close at #2, but he was #2 in that particular stat.

Hell there might be some stats where Dak actually ranks higher than Mahomes.  That's possible.  But that doesn't mean he's better(he's NOT).

 

The point is to show that he's not "just a guy" and deserves to be talked about like a borderline Top Tier QB, depending on how you have your tiers.

 

Compensation has NEVER been about who's the Best when it comes to QB's or Brady or Manning would be the highest paid for 15 years.  Just when they get their deal done and if they're a franchise QB at the time.  Dak deserves, and has EARNED, to be paid.  It's his turn.  Watson and Mahomes will get way more than he will.  It's how this works.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drew

[Iceman 2978]

It's his turn...to sink the Cowboys.   LOlz.

 

IDGAF what they pay him, but if it hinders the Cowboys' ability to attract and retain talent, Dak prescott is NOT the player who can make up that deficit.

[Iceman 2978]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Can someone summarize what our resident idiot posted?  Anything profound?  

here it is...

[futureman 22699]

5 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Can someone summarize what our resident idiot posted?  Anything profound?  

drew is insisting that dak is as good as mahomes.  and his lip is quivering and he’s wiping his nose through his shake-voice. 

['stache 22133]

6 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Can someone summarize what our resident idiot posted?  Anything profound?  

Dak suck, lulz! It’s formulaic bitchassedness.

Edited May 20, 2020 by 'stache

[Nicole44 22315]

Watching FS1 and they were saying just now that Dak was offered a 5 year 175 Million contract and rejected it. Chris Simms seems to be the one reporting this other tidbit (don’t know how credible his sources are) that Dak wanted a 4 year contract but if there was a 5th year he wanted $45 million for the 5th year. That is what is being reported. It depends on whether or not you think Mike Florio/Chris Simms/Colin Cowherd and Jane Slater are credible sources for this latest bit of information. 
I am starting to believe it is totally true. The contract negotiations appear to be trending in this direction. And yes, I am fully aware that JJ drags things out until the deadline for quite a large number of contracts 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Nicole44

[futureman 22699]

18 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

The contract negotiations appear to be trending in this direction. And yes, I am fully aware that JJ drags things out until the deadline for quite a large number of contracts 

if corona hadn't happened I have no doubt that jerry and his disabled son would make an absolutely awful deal on july 15.  but there is a very realistic possibility that the cap decreases substantially next year and because of that I think they may actually hold off until after the season.  it's really the only hope this franchise has.

[Nicole44 22315]

If I had to guess (and honestly there is no predicting what JJ and Son will choose to do and how much weight the new coach MM will have) I would say this is trending towards Dak playing on the franchise tag this season. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 692]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

Watching FS1 and they were saying just now that Dak was offered a 5 year 175 Million contract and rejected it. Chris Simms seems to be the one reporting this other tidbit (don’t know how credible his sources are) that Dak wanted a 4 year contract but if there was a 5th year he wanted $45 million for the 5th year. That is what is being reported. It depends on whether or not you think Mike Florio/Chris Simms/Colin Cowherd and Jane Slater are credible sources for this latest bit of information. 
I am starting to believe it is totally true. The contract negotiations appear to be trending in this direction. And yes, I am fully aware that JJ drags things out until the deadline for quite a large number of contracts 

Does his camp think he get can those numbers in the open market?  How else do they have any leverage?

Are the cowboys just scared of the uncertainty of life without Dak?

Leveon did all his holdout shinanagins and ended up with less money and in a worse situation at NYJ. 

[Pato del Muerto 53499]

15 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Does his camp think he get can those numbers in the open market?  How else do they have any leverage?

Are the cowboys just scared of the uncertainty of life without Dak?

Leveon did all his holdout shinanagins and ended up with less money and in a worse situation at NYJ. 

No, they are betting that Dallas won’t be willing to let him go and start over at qb. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

5 years ago the franchise tag for QBs was around 18.51M. If we apply that same multiple to this year's franchise tag it will be 54.29M in 2025. Obviously Dak and Co realize this and are offering 2 proposals which accomplish 2 things. 

1) they are offering an unpalatable offer in an effort to make their other proposal (4 year deal) more appealing 

2) they are taking into account an ever appreciating salary cap and attempting to make that 5th year more reflective of future market QB rates. 

[Patrick Bateman 3969]

1 hour ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

Does his camp think he get can those numbers in the open market?  How else do they have any leverage?

Are the cowboys just scared of the uncertainty of life without Dak?

Leveon did all his holdout shinanagins and ended up with less money and in a worse situation at NYJ. 

Running backs aren't quarterbacks, but yes we should have let Zeke walk or traded him.  There may be some QBs out there next year like Winston or Brissett or Cam if he proves he's healthy but a lot of teams have to reach back into the draft to find their next QB and suck for a couple of years.  See Denver, Carolina (this year), San Diego (this year), Arizona (constantly was looking until lately) or Washington (although they have a ton of issues).  It all depends on how you see yourself (contender or not) and how you want to build your team.  You can probably guess how Jerrah feels....

 

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I don’t even know if this is considered a hot take or not, because I think it’s obvious. If Dak plays on the tag this year and Watson signs long term before him, this deal isn’t ever getting done. Like, EVER (at least not with the boys). If that happens, i don’t think Dak is our qb in 2022. So the Dak4Lyfe crowd (even me to at least a certain extent) better hope this deal gets done before Watson. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

['stache 22133]

Has a QB ever played under the franchise tag? Wouldn't he most likely hold out if he doesn't get a contract?

['stache 22133]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

5 years ago the franchise tag for QBs was around 18.51M. If we apply that same multiple to this year's franchise tag it will be 54.29M in 2025. Obviously Dak and Co realize this and are offering 2 proposals which accomplish 2 things. 

1) they are offering an unpalatable offer in an effort to make their other proposal (4 year deal) more appealing 

2) they are taking into account an ever appreciating salary cap and attempting to make that 5th year more reflective of future market QB rates. 

I think Jerry will give in on the 5th year, and he probably should. Wouldn't that be better for the "Dak Sucks" crowd? Since we can move on from him if he really does regress over the next few years?

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Has a QB ever played under the franchise tag? Wouldn't he most likely hold out if he doesn't get a contract?

Cousins did with Washington I believe.  I don't think he holds out because the money is so big with a QB tag. 

[Pato del Muerto 53499]

That 5th year price shouldn’t even matter to Dallas. If 45 is too much then they cut him or see about restructuring.  Shouldn’t be much dead money by then. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Has a QB ever played under the franchise tag? Wouldn't he most likely hold out if he doesn't get a contract?

Brees and cousins are the only qbs to ever play under the franchise tag, and clearly neither resigned with the team that tagged them. After you get tagged as a qb, it just gets WAAY too messy. And with the qbs that are about to get paid, trying to get a deal done will turn into even more of a shit show than it already is.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

A lot is being made out of the 5th year increase.  The reality is that Dak wants a 4 yr deal.  So the 45M last year payment is really just a ploy to get them to take the 4 yr proposal that Dak's side wants or to get the Cowboys to renegotiate after 4 yrs are up on said deal.  And ultimately the 2 sides are only off by 10M total on the 2 proposals that we know about. Which basically ups the Cowboys proposal by 2mm/yr from 35mm/yr to 37mm/yr. So they're really not that far off. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[Drew 2925]

21 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Can someone summarize what our resident idiot posted?  Anything profound?  

Well considering that could be describing you or futureman, it's hard to say.  God you're a moron.

3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

5 years ago the franchise tag for QBs was around 18.51M. If we apply that same multiple to this year's franchise tag it will be 54.29M in 2025. Obviously Dak and Co realize this and are offering 2 proposals which accomplish 2 things. 

1) they are offering an unpalatable offer in an effort to make their other proposal (4 year deal) more appealing 

2) they are taking into account an ever appreciating salary cap and attempting to make that 5th year more reflective of future market QB rates. 

Exactly.  All social media, and the idiotic Dak haters are seeing are "He wants 45 Mil a YEAR" when no, that's not what he wants.

The Cowboys, if true, offered 5 for 175(35 mil a year, which is in line with what everyone has been thinking).  Dak knows if he signs that he'll be woefully underpaid by the 5th year.  So of course his side wants a massive 5th year number to justify signing that 5th year.

 

All this proves is that, as most of us with a brain have figured out, that the 5th year of the deal is the sticking point.

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I don’t even know if this is considered a hot take or not, because I think it’s obvious. If Dak plays on the tag this year and Watson signs long term before him, this deal isn’t ever getting done. Like, EVER (at least not with the boys). If that happens, i don’t think Dak is our qb in 2022. So the Dak4Lyfe crowd (even me to at least a certain extent) better hope this deal gets done before Watson. 

It would suck, but I agree.  They NEED to get Dak signed before Mahomes and Watson sign or this will be much worse.

41 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That 5th year price shouldn’t even matter to Dallas. If 45 is too much then they cut him or see about restructuring.  Shouldn’t be much dead money by then. 

Exactly.  The 5th year doesn't really matter what price it is.  Dak doesn't want to sign a 5 year deal.  Dallas wants it so they can spread the money out a little differently.  That's the sticking point, and that amount shouldn't bother them one bit.  The Franchise Tag will be MORE than 45 mil in 5 years most likely.

[Drew 2925]

2 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

A lot is being made out of the 5th year increase.  The reality is that Dak wants a 4 yr deal.  So the 45M last year payment is really just a ploy to get them to take the 4 yr proposal that Dak's side wants or to get the Cowboys to renegotiate after 4 yrs are up on said deal.  And ultimately the 2 sides are only off by 10M total on the 2 proposals that we know about. Which basically ups the Cowboys proposal by 2mm/yr from 35mm/yr to 37mm/yr. So they're really not that far off. 

100%.  It's a negotiating ploy.  If Dallas wants that 5th year, they'll have to pay him for it.  

And, like you said, they're not actually far apart on money at all.  It's always been about that 5th year.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5484]

Hopefully Aldon Smith returns to his previous war daddy form. 

[Nicole44 22315]

1 hour ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Hopefully Aldon Smith returns to his previous war daddy form. 

If he does it is another great offseason move this team has made. 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/20/nfl-reinstates-aldon-smith/

[futureman 22699]

aldon and randy are going to save our season.  

[Iceman 2978]

jerrah loves hims some junk cars when it comes to football projects.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

4 hours ago, Iceman said:

jerrah loves hims some junk cars when it comes to football projects.

That's definitely Jerry's vice. They're actually saying this is mostly a Mike McCarthy deal. He met with Aldon Smith during his time off and a bunch of guys on the defensive staff (including Mike Nolan the DC) worked with Smith in San Fran. From everything I've heard Smith has gotten his life together on the addict front. The big question is whether 4 years away from the game is too much to overcome. Supposedly Smith has been doing a lot of volunteer work with Jay Glazer's nonprofit which works with Vets who are going through sobriety themselves.