Dallas Cowboys 2020 Offseason Thread -- 25th Anniversary of Mediocrity

[Nicole44 22310]

Pretty amazing how the Mahomes deal was finalized and this shit it’s Dak is stalemate in deadline day. It’s not a bad thing him playing on the tag this season. New coach. Kind of a “prove it year.” We won’t have terrible coaching this year. We should win the division or at the very least make a WC. We have weapons on offense (better ones than most teams). If there is a season there is no excuse not to make the post season if Dak stays healthy. None. 

[Vic Mackey 47953]

2 hours ago, Scholz said:

Agreed.  Dak seems to want to bet on himself and cash in later.  May backfire.  He's a good starter but not the best in the league.

What does that matter? Stafford was not even close to the best when he got paid the most. What did Wentz accomplish when he got his big extension? Nothing at all. Literally. He has taken 4 total playoff snaps in his first 4 seasons. Why would Dak take less than him? He's better than Wentz over their entire career so far.

Dak seems to be going to the Cousins route and good for him. Don't lock into anything long term and let it play out. Cousins bet on himself and won. Cousins didn't accomplish jack shit in Washington either and got paid there and then with Minnesota where he finally got the monkey off his back and won a playoff game.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I know the rumor was we offered $35-$$37mil. Where are you hearing he hasn’t been offered as much as Goff and Wentz, because everything I’ve heard (up until lochness monsters post) has indicated that we’ve offered more. We’ve offered him the amount of money he wants, and we probably feel like we’re getting fucked in the process. So they don’t want to give in on that year. I get it from both sides.

I was responding to the logic of lochness monster's post and the numbers he cited. And there's a lot more involved in a contract than just the purported per year numbers.  Structure and guaranteed money are part of the negotiating constraints as well. According to some reports the Cowboys aren't even guaranteeing the same % of the contract as what Tannehill recently got from the Titans (a team he played only 9 games for).

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[Scholz 12305]

9 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

What does that matter?

I just don't think he deserves to set the market at this point and I'm not even sold that Jerrah thinks he's the guy.  Make it or break type year.  If he wants to bet on himself, good on him but he might regret it.  If I were him, I'd bird in the hand this bitch.

[futureman 22698]

37 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

We should win the division or at the very least make a WC.

seems easy enough, right!?!

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

7 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I was responding to the logic of lochness monster's post and the numbers he cited. And there's a lot more involved in a contract than just the purported per year numbers.  Structure and guaranteed money are part of the negotiating constraints as well. According to some reports the Cowboys aren't even guaranteeing the same % of the contract as what Tannehill recently got from the Titans (a team he played only 9 games for).

JFC didn’t know that was true. If so, it’s laughable that they tried to sell “this is our guy” lol. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

At some point the Cowboys have to stop negotiating as though they have all the leverage. They have exhibited poor forecasting in terms of their initial offers now with 4 of their last 5 front line player comtract negotiations. Dez, DeMarcus Lawrence, Zeke, and now Dak. And according to Bob Sturm even Zach Martin threatened to hold out before breaking the guard salary market (which I totally forgot about). Amari Cooper is the only top of the market player where the Cowboys didnt get taken and that has more to do with simultaneously negotiating with Dak at the same time. Stephen Jones seems to suck at this part of his job. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

Had they made Dak a top of the market offer in January or February of 2019 they'd be looking at a total  bargain right now with per yr dollars under 30MM for Dak. They never seem to be able to get ahead of the market at a favorable time like other franchises seem to consistently do.  

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[futureman 22698]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

At some point the Cowboys have to stop negotiating as though they have all the leverage.

no they don’t.  they do hold the leverage.  roger staubach, troy aikman, and tony romo have all made tens of millions of dollars after football due to winning games with the star on their helmet.  dak would be stupid to leave and he probably won’t, unfortunately.  he’s just letting his agent play chicken right now.  but he won’t take a few million more in buffalo and sacrifice $50MM on the back end.  if jerry and stephen aren’t waterhead morons they won’t blink.  luck for the dak-apologists they probably will, though. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

1 minute ago, futureman said:

no they don’t.  they do hold the leverage.  roger staubach, troy aikman, and tony romo have all made tens of millions of dollars after football due to winning games with the star on their helmet.  dak would be stupid to leave and he probably won’t, unfortunately.  he’s just letting his agent play chicken right now.  but he won’t take a few million more in buffalo and sacrifice $50MM on the back end.  if jerry and stephen aren’t waterhead morons they won’t blink.  luck for the dak-apologists they probably will, though. 

Yet they've lost every game of chicken they faced over the past 5 years. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Had they made Dak a top of the market offer in January or February of 2019 they'd be looking at total  bargain right now with per yr dollars under 30MM for Dak. They never seem to be able to get ahead of the market at a favorable time like other franchises seem to consistently do.  

Dak wouldn’t have taken that at that time though. Not under Todd France. I agree that Stephen sucks at this, but i feel like this one was always going to go this way with Todd France. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Dak wouldn’t have taken that at that time though. Not under Todd France. I agree that Stephen sucks at this, but i feel like this one was always going to go this way with Todd France. 

That's a great point.  Sturm or David Moore brought up France's negotiating history which seems to playing out with Dak accordingly.  That being said remind me again when France began representing Dak (I dont believe he was Dak's original agent). Because if it was after March of 2019 then there was time to make the offer before France began representing Dak. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

Looks like it was summer 2018. Before he began his 3rd season.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2782903-cowboys-news-dak-prescott-switches-agent-to-todd-france-from-jeff-guerriero

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

That's a great point.  Sturm or David Moore brought up France's negotiating history which seems to playing out with Dak accordingly.  That being said remind me again when France began representing Dak (I dont believe he was Dak's original agent). Because if it was after March of 2019 then there was time to make the offer before France began representing Dak. 

He started representing right before the 2018 season. So Dak had just come off a stretch where a lot of people were questioning what he looked like without zeke (when I’m reality it was more about us missing Tyron Smith, but that’s neither here nor there). It was before we had cooper, so we weren’t really in a situation to properly evaluate him.

 

edit: you beat me to it
 

That’s really where we fucked this thing up. Trusting that Dez was a #1 in ‘16 and ‘17. Dak never really had a true #1 wr until cooper got here. But as for the timing of signing a contract, it was never going to happen.

 

i could be wrong, but i do think they tried pretty aggressively to get a deal done after the first 3 games, but IMO that’s when the $40mil a year counter offer that leaked came into play. I think after those first 3 games, Dak and his agent were like “oh now you wanna talk serious. Fuck outta here. Now it’s $40mil and we can ‘meet in the middle’ from there’”

Edited July 15, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

He started representing right before the 2018 season. So Dak had just come off a stretch where a lot of people were questioning what he looked like without zeke (when I’m reality it was more about us missing Tyron Smith, but that’s neither here nor there). It was before we had cooper, so we weren’t really in a situation to properly evaluate him.

 

edit: you beat me to it
 

That’s really where we fucked this thing up. Trusting that Dez was a #1 in ‘16 and ‘17. Dak never really had a true #1 wr until cooper got here. But as for the timing of signing a contract, it was never going to happen.

 

i could be wrong, but i do think they tried pretty aggressively to get a deal done after the first 3 games, but IMO that’s when the $40mil a year counter offer that leaked came into play. I think after those first 3 games, Dak and his agent were like “oh now you wanna talk serious. Fuck outta here. Now it’s $40mil and we can ‘meet in the middle’ from there’”

They didn't make any offer to Dak until after both Goff and Wentz signed in the spring 2019 offseason. Like always they were last to the market.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[tokamak 6687]

So what happens now? Dak plays 2020 under the tag, then the same thing plays out next offseason except the 2021 tag value is like $50 mm?

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

2021 tag will be 120% of this year's salary regardless of whether the cap goes up or down. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

4 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s that at all. If they really thought Dak was their guy, they would’ve caved to his demands. They were never convinced Dak was the guy. All of that was to save face with the media. They felt like eventually Dak would cave, and he didn’t. 
 

The funny/sad part of this is, if we beat philly in philly last year (and more specifically, Dak doesn’t look like dog shit in that game), I bet this deal would’ve been done at the 11th hr. I bet we would’ve caved. That game left such a bad taste in their mouths that they just couldn’t do it lol.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, tokamak said:

So what happens now? Dak plays 2020 under the tag, then the same thing plays out next offseason except the 2021 tag value is like $50 mm?

We’ll tag him next year, and then after 2021 he’ll bounce. You don’t get qb deals done after the tag is officially in place. You just dont. It’s fucking bold, and it could backfire hard. But they didn’t give in. I’m really surprised. 
 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

['stache 22131]

12 minutes ago, tokamak said:

So what happens now? Dak plays 2020 under the tag, then the same thing plays out next offseason except the 2021 tag value is like $50 mm?

He'll have a good year then get paid a ton by someone else. No loyalty from Dallas, no loyalty from Dak.

7 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I don’t think it’s that at all. If they really thought Dak was their guy, they would’ve caved to his demands. They were never convinced Dak was the guy. All of that was to save face with the media. They felt like eventually Dak would cave, and he didn’t. 
 

The funny/sad part of this is, if we beat philly in philly last year (and more specifically, Dak doesn’t look like dog shit in that game), I bet this deal would’ve been done at the 11th hr. I bet we would’ve caved. That game left such a bad taste in their mouths that they just couldn’t do it lol.

Nah, they are just full fucking retards. Full. Fucking. Retards.

[MontereyMX 953]

12 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

We’ll tag him next year, and then after 2021 he’ll bounce. You don’t get qb deals done after the tag is officially in place. You just dont. It’s fucking bold, and it could backfire hard. But they didn’t give in. I’m really surprised. 
 

 

Titty Baby Tad

[gsoda3 3362]

who is tad prescott..

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

lolol if true. Jesus fucking Christ 

[MontereyMX 953]

8 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

who is tad prescott..

Apparently someone kin to Dak who is sour he ain’t getting that new Acura.   

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

Pretty sure it's his brother.

[Drew 2922]

5 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Cowboys offered Dak $33 million+ a season with $100 million guaranteed. 

If thats not good enough for the 10th best QB in the league we should seek to get rid of him in a year or two.

Yeah that's not true at all, they may have offered him that this year which would have been a slap in the face since it's less than Goff and Wentz got in guarantees and less than the Market is at now.

18 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

lolol if true. Jesus fucking Christ 

And for those saying Dak was trying to be greedy, selfihs, break the bank whatever...this is proof that wasn't the case. 

The COWBOYS fucked this up.  Not Dak. 

And now we're stuck with more of this BS for every game, every pass, and every post on here, ugh.

[futureman 22698]

50 minutes ago, tokamak said:

2021 tag value is like $50 mm?

No. 

[futureman 22698]

6 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yeah that's not true at all, they may have offered him that this year which would have been a slap in the face since it's less than Goff and Wentz got in guarantees and less than the Market is at now.

And for those saying Dak was trying to be greedy, selfihs, break the bank whatever...this is proof that wasn't the case. 

The COWBOYS fucked this up.  Not Dak. 

And now we're stuck with more of this BS for every game, every pass, and every post on here, ugh.

shut the fuck up, drew. 

[Newy25 7916]

12 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yeah that's not true at all, they may have offered him that this year which would have been a slap in the face since it's less than Goff and Wentz got in guarantees and less than the Market is at now.

And for those saying Dak was trying to be greedy, selfihs, break the bank whatever...this is proof that wasn't the case. 

The COWBOYS fucked this up.  Not Dak. 

And now we're stuck with more of this BS for every game, every pass, and every post on here, ugh.

 

How is a tweet from someone saying "I am told" proof exactly? 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I know Slater is reporting it, but I have a hard time believing it played out that way. A very hard time. I don’t even think a middle schooler running franchise mode on madden is that incompetent. The clock is the clock lol. You know exactly what it says. There’s no excuse for something like that to happen if it’s actually true.

[Guest]

Drew likes that Mahomes market increase.   LOLz.

 

Gotta have some fucking substance on your side of the table too, brah.

 

and I've never felt like Dak was greedy or wrong to try and get his.  My biggest point of concern as a fan is overpaying for said production and hamstringing the ability to field competitive talent at other positions.

Edited July 15, 2020 by slorch

[Drew 2922]

4 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

 

How is a tweet from someone saying "I am told" proof exactly? 

Jane Slater is one of the few people who actually has dependable sources inside the Cowboys.

It's like Marc Stein and the Mavs.  You can't trust everyone, but there are a few you can depend on.  She's one.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 minutes ago, Drew said:

Jane Slater is one of the few people who actually has dependable sources inside the Cowboys.

It's like Marc Stein and the Mavs.  You can't trust everyone, but there are a few you can depend on.  She's one.

I actually disagree with this. I follow slater closer than the others because she’s a smoke show, but her info isn’t any more credible than mike fisher, Ed Werner, or anyone else. Slater has been mislead on info plenty of times, but she is pretty good at her job. I’ll give you that. But that entire industry is a roll of the dice with their anonymous sources. 

[Guest]

Is anything real until Shefter says so?

#rolleyes

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

18 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I actually disagree with this. I follow slater closer than the others because she’s a smoke show, but her info isn’t any more credible than mike fisher, Ed Werner, or anyone else. Slater has been mislead on info plenty of times, but she is pretty good at her job. I’ll give you that. But that entire industry is a roll of the dice with their anonymous sources. 

Are you kidding? Mike Fisher is the epitome of a throw shit at the wall, clickbait reporter. He's worse than Rappaport.

Ed Werder, David Moore, and Todd Archer are the best to get the Cowboys side of things. Slater, Calvin Watkins, and Clarence Hill will typically get you the players' side of negotiations. However no one has had much of an in with either Todd France or Dak on these particular negotiations. Hence as to why all the information that has come out has been so one sided in the Cowboys favor. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

19 minutes ago, slorch said:

Is anything real until Shefter says so?

#rolleyes

Schefter is good for national NFL news or Giants specific news, but local guys always know way more detailed information and are able to decipher nuance much better than the national guys. Rappaport used to be a Dallas based guy so he used to hit at times on Cowboys stuff, but lately he's either lost his contacts or doesn't have enough to triangulate his sources because he's been woefully bad on Cowboys news the past several years. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

as expected, Slater is already backpedaling a little bit. 

[Guest]

he's a likeable guy, I just hate how stuff that is just general news gets attributed to him, as if he found the scoop.

It's so overdone.

Edited July 15, 2020 by slorch

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

7 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

as expected, Slater is already backpedaling a little bit. 

Like I said nobody on Dak's team is really saying anything. Maybe she's talking to a brother or cousin or something and thinks she's getting a scoop, but nothing noteworthy is coming from Dak himself or his agent. The offer she referenced in earlier tweets isn't much different than what David Moore highlighted back in April.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

46 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Like I said nobody on Dak's team is really saying anything. Maybe she's talking to a brother or cousin or something and thinks she's getting a scoop, but nothing noteworthy is coming from Dak himself or his agent. The offer she referenced in earlier tweets isn't much different than what David Moore highlighted back in April.

I actually lost a little respect for her credibility on this one. More than I normally would, just because of how unbelievable it was. Unless something that ridiculous is coming straight from Dak or Todd France, maybe clarify that with them before moving forward with reporting anything.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

12 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I know the rumor was we offered $35-$$37mil. Where are you hearing he hasn’t been offered as much as Goff and Wentz, because everything I’ve heard (up until lochness monsters post) has indicated that we’ve offered more. We’ve offered him the amount of money he wants, and we probably feel like we’re getting fucked in the process. So they don’t want to give in on that year. I get it from both sides.

The reports I've seen have been consistent and they've matched up in timing with when the Cowboys and Dak's agent have been negotiating.  It was a 5 year offer, AAV was about 34.5m, and little bit less than 110m guaranteed.  So basically, less than Goff guaranteed but a little more AAV, slightly more than Wentz deal although Wentz's deal has some weird triggers in them so he gets some cash flow in the 3rd year.  Less than Wilson.  Less than Mahomes.  Less than Watson's coming contract.  I understand the Cowboys wanting that 5th year and both sides dug in their heels.  We'll see who bet right.  If Dak balls out and gets the team to the playoffs and wins a game or two, he's probably going to get more.  If we miss the playoffs even with good numbers, he probably gets about the same.  If he gets hurt, then a little less.  If we don't finish the season?????  What is COVID going to do to the cap short-term?  A lot of moving parts.

10 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

At some point the Cowboys have to stop negotiating as though they have all the leverage. They have exhibited poor forecasting in terms of their initial offers now with 4 of their last 5 front line player comtract negotiations. Dez, DeMarcus Lawrence, Zeke, and now Dak. And according to Bob Sturm even Zach Martin threatened to hold out before breaking the guard salary market (which I totally forgot about). Amari Cooper is the only top of the market player where the Cowboys didnt get taken and that has more to do with simultaneously negotiating with Dak at the same time. Stephen Jones seems to suck at this part of his job. 

Amari's contract is pretty rich actually.  Zeke's contract is top 10 worst contract in the league.  Henry signed today for basically half the guaranteed money.  It's laughable how dumb that draft pick was and how extending him to a record contract was.  Doesn't mean he's not a good player, but nowhere near the value.  Stephen isn't proving to be any better than his father at contract negotiation.  I guess you can point to Collins and the Smith deal has been a good one.

8 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

 

 

There's some truth here.  In the summer of 2019, the argument was Dak wasn't worth 25 million AAV.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Hate 20247]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

There's some truth here.  In the summer of 2019, the argument was Dak wasn't worth 25 million AAV.

 

 

And he wasn't (and still isn't),  but given the new numbers they should have signed him to a Jimmy G type deal. 

[Hate 20247]

edit:  shit's borked double post

Edited July 16, 2020 by Hate

[Vic Mackey 47953]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

And he wasn't (and still isn't),  but given the new numbers they should have signed him to a Jimmy G type deal. 

He isn't worth 25mill but shit ass Wentz gets 32-35? Riiiight. Lmao.

Some of y'all have zero idea how values work. Newsflash, it isn't what you deem he is worth. He is playing for well over 25 this season and will the rest of his career.

[Guest]

value happens on the field, not just the front office.  

[Hate 20247]

He isn't worth 25mill but shit ass Wentz gets 32-35? Riiiight. Lmao.
Some of y'all have zero idea how values work. Newsflash, it isn't what you deem he is worth. He is playing for well over 25 this season and will the rest of his career.

I don’t like Wentz either.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yeah Wentz is overpaid for the value he provides, not sure the point. 

If Dak wants to make $40 million a year for the Detroit Lions- cool.

[Hate 20247]

I can assure you that Dak wouldn’t be a spokesman for Campbell’s Soup or that mattress company if he was the QB for Detroit.

[Vic Mackey 47953]