Luka Doncic

gsoda3 · June 18

i see this going one of two ways: either luka has a transformative offseason where he takes the next step, or his career plateaus. if this doesn’t motivate him to get into top flight shape then nothing will.

He was in shape til april. He hasn't been able to stay in shape for the past two months because he's been trying to get healthy enough to just take the court.

Ricky Butler · June 18

11 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

1 hour ago, definitely not derka said:

i see this going one of two ways: either luka has a transformative offseason where he takes the next step, or his career plateaus. if this doesn’t motivate him to get into top flight shape then nothing will.

He was in shape til april. He hasn't been able to stay in shape for the past two months because he's been trying to get healthy enough to just take the court.

Luka is 24. If his career "plateaus" at this level, he'll retire as the NBA's all time scoring leader, first ballot hall of famer, and top 20 player of all-time. That being said, if the Mavs can put another creator around him and Kyrie, I hope he takes the time to rest his legs, stay fresh, and stay healthy.

immamac · June 18

Dude just made it to the NBA finals and you guys are acting like he's a failure. Miserable much?

Ricky Butler · June 18

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Dude just made it to the NBA finals and you guys are acting like he's a failure. Miserable much?

He's one of the best offensive players I've ever seen at 25. He's only going to get better which is insane because like you just said... he just took his team to the finals after defeating a stacked Western Conference.

Derka · June 18

im not saying anything about luka that i haven’t said about him a bunch of times before except for the plateau part. and it’s the fact that i’ve been saying the same thing about him for so long that has me saying he’s going to plateau if he doesn’t finally change. he was in really good shape when he played for real madrid, and then he came to america and let himself go. that’s a fact. he’s never come into a season with the type of body that he was playing with in europe. he didn’t used to carry bad weight like he has for so long now. you say his body started breaking down towards the end of the season and it was hard for him to stay healthy? you don’t say. jokic had to do the same thing before he finally broke through. if luka shows up next year looking like white paul pierce again then i’ll be really disappointed at that.

Js1 · June 18

7 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

and then he came to america and let himself go.

someguy · June 18

10 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

im not saying anything about luka that i haven’t said about him a bunch of times before except for the plateau part. and it’s the fact that i’ve been saying the same thing about him for so long that has me saying he’s going to plateau if he doesn’t finally change. he was in really good shape when he played for real madrid, and then he came to america and let himself go. that’s a fact. he’s never come into a season with the type of body that he was playing with in europe. he didn’t used to carry bad weight like he has for so long now. you say his body started breaking down towards the end of the season and it was hard for him to stay healthy? you don’t say. jokic had to do the same thing before he finally broke through. if luka shows up next year looking like white paul pierce again then i’ll be really disappointed at that.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning - 2021

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/style/nba-star-luka-doncic-changing-170000062.html - 2022

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/luka-doncic-slovenia-trainer-dallas-mavs-star-next-step-in-shape-usa - 2023

As someone who loves seeing the game played at the highest level, I'd love to watch an in shape Doncic do his thing. I hope for the best but am definitely skeptical.

gsoda3 · June 18

14 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

im not saying anything about luka that i haven’t said about him a bunch of times before except for the plateau part. and it’s the fact that i’ve been saying the same thing about him for so long that has me saying he’s going to plateau if he doesn’t finally change. he was in really good shape when he played for real madrid, and then he came to america and let himself go. that’s a fact. he’s never come into a season with the type of body that he was playing with in europe. he didn’t used to carry bad weight like he has for so long now. you say his body started breaking down towards the end of the season and it was hard for him to stay healthy? you don’t say. jokic had to do the same thing before he finally broke through. if luka shows up next year looking like white paul pierce again then i’ll be really disappointed at that.

he started playing with real madrid's senior team at 16. he played his last game with them when he was 19. so yeah, he's never going to look like that again, but that's a good thing. he's never been more fit in his life than the start of this season. he needs to keep up that level of conditioning and if possible improve on it (that'd be great) but it's not the biggest issue he needs to address. that would be his maturity- not letting things he can't control affect his focus and his game. just like you have to get to your spot on the floor no matter what defenses the other team throws at you, you have to keep playing your game no matter what the refs throw at you. conditioning what's between his ears is, at this point, what'll grow him the most.

Mitch Cumsteen · June 18

2 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

he started playing with real madrid's senior team at 16. he played his last game with them when he was 19. so yeah, he's never going to look like that again, but that's a good thing. he's never been more fit in his life than the start of this season. he needs to keep up that level of conditioning and if possible improve on it (that'd be great) but it's not the biggest issue he needs to address. that would be his maturity- not letting things he can't control affect his focus and his game. just like you have to get to your spot on the floor no matter what defenses the other team throws at you, you have to keep playing your game no matter what the refs throw at you. conditioning what's between his ears is, at this point, what'll grow him the most.

You follow him and the Mavs much closer than I do, but just on the eye test.... his body looks like he's in maybe the bottom 10-15% of NBA players when it comes to conditioning. He's got a lot of miles on his legs already for a 25 year old. He plays a ton of minutes. His game puts a lot of stress on his body and especially on his lower body. Maybe his injuries this season were completely unrelated, but maybe not. Those knees don't really need to be carrying any extra weight.

With regard to the refs, it's not just ignoring shit when things don't go his way. Too much of his offense is predicated on foul baiting. Harden fell into the same trap. They are so masterful at getting guys out of position and off balance, that they are at times more actively looking to draw fouls than make a basketball play. It's smart and crafty when it works. It can take you out of your game when it doesn't. It's also less effective in the playoffs when the refs let more physicality go.

Ricky Butler · June 18

9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Too much of his offense is predicated on foul baiting.

It's really not.

Chewbacca · June 18

20 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Too much of his offense is predicated on foul baiting.

You're thinking of Shai, not Luka.

Ricky Butler · June 18

Just now, Chewbacca said:

You're thinking of Shai, not Luka.

I almost posted the same thing. Also, Harden's foul hunting was an organizational philosophy at the time.

Luka's offensive philosophy is diagnosing the defense and then getting his teammates wide open looks.

https://x.com/JADubin5/status/1758495366696120495

Mitch Cumsteen · June 19

Welp. I’ve learned over the last couple of days that Luka is in peak physical condition, is one of the best defenders in the league, and doesn’t hunt fouls. Thanks for the education everyone. I think I’m a much more knowledgeable basketball fan now.

statsman · June 19

I attended the Mavs’ home opener this year. Luka went off, and won the game with a late, off balance three. An amazing game.

He was … thick. Portly, even. I assumed he would play himself into shape, but he never did. If he doesn’t get a handle on it, his career arc will be nothing like we want.

SurlyBDR · June 19

On 6/17/2024 at 11:24 PM, immamac said:

Dude just made it to the NBA finals and you guys are acting like he's a failure. Miserable much?

Fastbreak · June 19

There is only 1 player that the mavs (or any other team) would trade Luka for.

Derka · June 19

18 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

There is only 1 player that the mavs (or any other team) would trade Luka for.

and that player is angel reese.

gsoda3 · June 19

You follow him and the Mavs much closer than I do, but just on the eye test.... his body looks like he's in maybe the bottom 10-15% of NBA players when it comes to conditioning. He's got a lot of miles on his legs already for a 25 year old. He plays a ton of minutes. His game puts a lot of stress on his body and especially on his lower body. Maybe his injuries this season were completely unrelated, but maybe not. Those knees don't really need to be carrying any extra weight.
With regard to the refs, it's not just ignoring shit when things don't go his way. Too much of his offense is predicated on foul baiting. Harden fell into the same trap. They are so masterful at getting guys out of position and off balance, that they are at times more actively looking to draw fouls than make a basketball play. It's smart and crafty when it works. It can take you out of your game when it doesn't. It's also less effective in the playoffs when the refs let more physicality go.

He's got a lot of miles for 25. I'm glad he's considering not playing for country. After he's healed I hope he finds a way to condition without putting so much stress on his lower body. Throw him in the pool and have him swim everyday.

He baits defenders. It's not an overwhelming part of his game but I don't like it especially when he stops playing in consternation at a no call. At best it's a wasted offensive possession and then a 4 on 5 transition situation on the other end of the floor. At worst it's that and then Luka going on tilt.

Zepol87 · June 19

On 6/17/2024 at 9:24 PM, immamac said:

Dude just made it to the NBA finals and you guys are acting like he's a failure. Miserable much?

Spurs fans are the worst

Ricky Butler · June 19

13 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Welp. I’ve learned over the last couple of days that Luka is in peak physical condition, is one of the best defenders in the league, and doesn’t hunt fouls. Thanks for the education everyone. I think I’m a much more knowledgeable basketball fan now.

I only responded to your uniformed observation of his offensive game, but this is a great response because it allows you to sneak out the back door unnoticed. Well played.

TxTower · June 19

Dude just made it to the NBA finals and you guys are acting like he's a failure. Miserable much?

Bitter Spurs\Rocket fans talking out they ass.

Pato del Muerto · June 19

9 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

He baits defenders. It's not an overwhelming part of his game but I don't like it especially when he stops playing in consternation at a no call. At best it's a wasted offensive possession and then a 4 on 5 transition situation on the other end of the floor. At worst it's that and then Luka going on tilt.

Also the extra bumps he takes from trying to draw them. That also takes a toll over months and months when added to the other fouls and contact that he isn’t initiating.

Pam Cummings · June 19

Here we go again with sensitive Mavs fans. If you don't wanna hear critical takes on your favorite player stay in your little Mavs thread.

'stache · June 19

14 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Here we go again with sensitive Mavs fans. If you don't wanna hear critical takes on your favorite player stay in your little Mavs thread.

"Better conditioning would improve his game" or "he needs to be more consistent on defense" are critical take. "He's fat and only scores on fouls and is the same as James Harden or Dak Prescott and the Cowboys" is just pure petty hatred. It's like we have to pretend that making the finals this year and two conference finals in 2 years isn't impressive as hell. You sound like the OKC radio guys who called him a "ball hog" in the midst of him destroying OKC's defense. In reality . . .

17 hours ago, Ricky Butler said:

I almost posted the same thing. Also, Harden's foul hunting was an organizational philosophy at the time.

Luka's offensive philosophy is diagnosing the defense and then getting his teammates wide open looks.

https://x.com/JADubin5/status/1758495366696120495

^^^ This is the obvious truth to anyone who watched. OKC doubled him every single play and he found Gafford and Lively for lobs and PJ for corner threes all fucking series. Minny didn't double as much and he tore them a new one by himself. Boston happened to be deep enough that they didn't need to double him and covered everyone else too, hence why it was a struggle. Dallas needs more depth. That's why they lost the series, they faced a deeper and ultimately better team. Such dumb takes being tossed around.

Edited June 19 by 'stache

Pam Cummings · June 19

I watched him shoot a 3, not get touched, fall down, yell obscenities at the refs, all while Boston scored an easy layup. Multiple times in the same game. A Finals game. A game where his team lost by 7 points. A game in which he fouled out. But to point it out and be critical of it makes me a salty Spurs fan somehow?

But then people who I didn't see posting in the NBA thread all year told me I don't watch enough basketball to know. Interesting.

Edited June 19 by Pam Cummings

Chewbacca · June 19

32 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Here we go again with sensitive Mavs fans. If you don't wanna hear critical takes on your favorite player stay in your little Mavs thread.

Dallas fans have been all up in their fee fees the past month or so.

Ricky Butler · June 19

7 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Dallas fans have been all up in their fee fees the past month or so.

I don’t know. Pam almost went nuclear on me because I made a Wemby plantar faciitus joke.

Pam Cummings · June 19

1 minute ago, Ricky Butler said:

I don’t know. Pam almost went nuclear on me because I made a Wemby plantar faciitus joke.

If a simple "go fuck yourself" for wishing injury on a player counts as "almost going nuclear", maybe you are on the wrong website.....

Ricky Butler · June 19

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

If a simple "go fuck yourself" for wishing injury on a player counts as "almost going nuclear", maybe you are on the wrong website.....

Fair enough but I didn’t wish an injury on him.

Chewbacca · June 19

5 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I don’t know. Pam almost went nuclear on me because I made a Wemby plantar faciitus joke.

I got banned from the Stars thread during their series with the Avs because little bitches complained to blacklab. He said he'd perma-ban me if I went back in there.

So yes, they (you?) have been.

Ricky Butler · June 19

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I got banned from the Stars thread during their series with the Avs because little bitches complained to blacklab. He said he'd perma-ban me if I went back in there.

So yes, they (you?) have been.

Uhhhhh. That’s definitely a “they,” buddy.

Pam Cummings · June 19

22 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Fair enough but I didn’t wish an injury on him.

It's OK. It's been a couple of days. I've recovered.

immamac · June 19

I don't give a single fuck about the Mavs or any other NBA team. I have eyes though. My eyes don't tell me luca is a fat piece of shit who sucks at basketball and is on the verge of imploding and ruining his career.

You people are deluded.

Chewbacca · June 19

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't give a single fuck about the Mavs or any other NBA team. I have eyes though. My eyes don't tell me luca is a fat piece of shit who sucks at basketball and is on the verge of imploding and ruining his career.

You people are deluded.

Yeah, I'm not sure what all that is about. Luka is an elite player. Could he be better if he got in better shape in the offseason? Sure. But the dude led the league in scoring this year and finished 3rd in MVP voting (and should have been second, IMO). I think he's the odds on favorite for MVP next year.

Edited June 19 by Chewbacca

Pam Cummings · June 19

2 hours ago, immamac said:

I don't give a single fuck about the Mavs or any other NBA team. I have eyes though. My eyes don't tell me luca is a fat piece of shit who sucks at basketball and is on the verge of imploding and ruining his career.

You people are deluded.

Good thing nobody is saying that. I swear you people love straw men arguments. Observing that his poor defense hurt his team and that maybe he could be in better shape = we think he's a fat piece of shit who cant play basketball? No dude. Just no.

Edited June 19 by Pam Cummings

immamac · June 19

3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Good thing nobody is saying that. I swear you people love straw men arguments. Observing that his poor defense hurt his team and that maybe he could be in better shape = we think he's a fat piece of shit who cant play basketball? No dude. Just no.

That's actually exactly what that means. It means he's bad at basketball and you think he's fat. People are actually posting pictures of how thick he is and saying he's fat. People are in here claiming he's costing the mavs games because he's bad at defense or whatever.

The mavs wouldn't have even made the playoffs without Luka. You are the ones making insane nitpicky claims about one of the most dominant players in the league. It would be like shitting on Lebron during his prime for being too big and slow. Check into reality.

'stache · June 19

21 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Good thing nobody is saying that. I swear you people love straw men arguments. Observing that his poor defense hurt his team and that maybe he could be in better shape = we think he's a fat piece of shit who cant play basketball? No dude. Just no.

I don't have a problem with comments on conditioning or defense (although if you watch the games you'll see he often does play good defense but does not do so consistently and needs to improve). I've responded to the comparisons to James Fucking Harden, and above to Dak Prescott, despite Luka having led his team to the fucking finals, and 2 out of 3 conference finals. The Dallas Cowboys haven't made a conference finals since fucking 1995. Those types of comments are flat out delusional.

Mitch Cumsteen · June 19

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's actually exactly what that means. It means he's bad at basketball and you think he's fat. People are actually posting pictures of how thick he is and saying he's fat. People are in here claiming he's costing the mavs games because he's bad at defense or whatever.

The mavs wouldn't have even made the playoffs without Luka. You are the ones making insane nitpicky claims about one of the most dominant players in the league. It would be like shitting on Lebron during his prime for being too big and slow. Check into reality.

Criticism comes with the territory of being a great player and it gets amped up after a playoff loss. Is this really news to you?

I'm not sure where you were, but people shit on Lebron for everything from passing up shots in the clutch to his outside shooting to him not being able to post up to him biting his fingernails, etc.. All that happened while he was generally considered to be the greatest player in the world by a fairly wide margin. Nobody criticized him for being big and slow though, because he was never big and slow. Like I said, all this comes with the territory.

immamac · June 19

Just now, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Criticism comes with the territory of being a great player and it gets amped up after a playoff loss. Is this really news to you?

I'm not sure where you were, but people shit on Lebron for everything from passing up shots in the clutch to his outside shooting to him not being able to post up to him biting his fingernails, etc.. All that happened while he was generally considered to be the greatest player in the world by a fairly wide margin. Nobody criticized him for being big and slow though, because he was never big and slow. Like I said, all this comes with the territory.

that's different than saying his career trajectory is imploding. Criticism is warranted for any player even the best of the best. MJ in his prime wasn't perfect, that's not what is going on here.

Js1 · June 19

Must protect Luka, no criticism allowed

immamac · June 19

Just now, Js1 said:

Must protect Luka, no criticism allowed

not what's happening.

Ricky Butler · June 19

I would have thought the best offensive player in the NBA possibly being overweight and drinking beer would have made him a Surly Cult Hero.

Pam Cummings · June 19

40 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's actually exactly what that means. It means he's bad at basketball and you think he's fat. People are actually posting pictures of how thick he is and saying he's fat. People are in here claiming he's costing the mavs games because he's bad at defense or whatever.

The mavs wouldn't have even made the playoffs without Luka. You are the ones making insane nitpicky claims about one of the most dominant players in the league. It would be like shitting on Lebron during his prime for being too big and slow. Check into reality.

If you wanna be the best player in the world you're gonna get held to best player in the world standards. This isn't even unique to Luka. Jayson Tatum just won the championship and I've seen people online(not here) saying that he got carried, and that he doesn't have MVPs, and that he didn't win Finals MVP, so he must not be that great.

Kermit · June 19

1 hour ago, immamac said:

that's different than saying his career trajectory is imploding. Criticism is warranted for any player even the best of the best. MJ in his prime wasn't perfect, that's not what is going on here.

Who the fuck said his career trajectory is imploding?

Derka · June 19

1 hour ago, Ricky Butler said:

I would have thought the best offensive player in the NBA

this is not the jokic thread.

Ricky Butler · June 19

27 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

this is not the jokic thread.

My point remains.

ITHorn · June 19

5 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Here we go again with sensitive Mavs fans. If you don't wanna hear critical takes on your favorite player stay in your little Mavs thread.

Mavericks fans are sensitive yet you complain and continue to argue when presented with stat after stat that proves you blatantly wrong?

Derka · June 19

1 hour ago, ITHorn said:

Mavericks fans are sensitive

agreed.

Navin R. Johnson · June 19

Mavs fans remind me of aggy defending Reggie McNeal circa 2005

Ricky Butler · June 20

3 hours ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Mavs fans remind me of aggy defending Reggie McNeal circa 2005

Probably closer to us defending Dirk in 2005-2006 after a finals failure.

You twisted your brain hard to miss that analogy.

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