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Shohei Ohtani

Firemans4Horn

By Firemans4Horn
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dcar00

dcar00 14144

Posted
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as far as HOF goes, Koufax is the gold standard for short career to get in. really about 7 years of dominant pitching.  He also won WS 4 times.

If Ohtani has 2 more years that are the average of his last 4 he's in for sure even if he has some crazy career ending injury.

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Dude. 

Semien is a career .255 hitter.  His career comparables are Ian Kinsler, Dansby Swanson, Kyle Seager and Dale fucking Sveum.  

2019, 2021 and 2023 are by far Semien's best years.   Outside of those three seasons, he's only hit at or above is career average 2 times (.255 in 2018 and .257 in 2015.)  2023 was pretty much his best overall season (outside of BA and WAR, those were during 2019).  

 

"Dude" you're making really shitty, nonsensical arguments. You used Semien finishing 3rd in MVP as some sort of indicator that 2021 was a weird "weak MVP" year that anyone could have won. I don't care how good you think Marcus Semien is - he's a routine MVP candidate and has been for THREE DIFFERENT teams for the past 6 seasons. He posted a 6.1 batting WAR to Shohei's 6.3 last season. You know why he or Seager didn't win MVP? Because Shohei tacked on another 2.4 from the mound. In 2021 Semien had a 6.0 batting to Shohei's 5.0. Again - want to guess WHY Shohei won MVP? In 2019 Semien finished 3rd for MVP and was 3rd in WAR for non-pitchers. 

He isn't some scrub that had one flukey season.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13028

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

"Dude" you're making really shitty, nonsensical arguments. You used Semien finishing 3rd in MVP as some sort of indicator that 2021 was a weird "weak MVP" year that anyone could have won. I don't care how good you think Marcus Semien is - he's a routine MVP candidate and has been for THREE DIFFERENT teams for the past 6 seasons. He posted a 6.1 batting WAR to Shohei's 6.3 last season. You know why he or Seager didn't win MVP? Because Shohei tacked on another 2.4 from the mound. In 2021 Semien had a 6.0 batting to Shohei's 5.0. Again - want to guess WHY Shohei won MVP? In 2019 Semien finished 3rd for MVP and was 3rd in WAR for non-pitchers. 

He isn't some scrub that had one flukey season.

Even if he was some scrub those seasons were still legit MVP caliber seasons. 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Even if he was some scrub those seasons were still legit MVP caliber seasons. 

Hitting .285 with 33 dingers and 92 RBIs  with a .369 OBP and .522 Slugging is a legit mvp caliber season? That was Semien's 2019 season.   Trout and Berman's numbers (1 and 2 that year) dwarf his.

Apparently, I have offended the Ranger fans.  

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13028

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11 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Hitting .285 with 33 dingers and 92 RBIs  with a .369 OBP and .522 Slugging is a legit mvp caliber season? That was Semien's 2019 season.   Trout and Berman's numbers (1 and 2 that year) dwarf his.

Apparently, I have offended the Ranger fans.  

I’ve never once cheered for the rangers. But yes. Those numbers are the numbers of an MVP contender in a lot of seasons. Harper, McCutchen, Posey in relatively recent seasons won MVPs with numbers that aren’t way different. Semien didn’t win the MVP those years anyway, he finished 3rd. Go look at all the 3rd place finishers and report back.

Machado and Arenado finished 2nd and 3rd last year. Machado slashed 298/366/531 with 32 HRs and 102 RBI. You seem to really be misunderstanding the numbers. Semien had a fucking 8.5 War that season.

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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35 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Hitting .285 with 33 dingers and 92 RBIs  with a .369 OBP and .522 Slugging is a legit mvp caliber season? That was Semien's 2019 season.   Trout and Berman's numbers (1 and 2 that year) dwarf his.

Apparently, I have offended the Ranger fans.  

No - you just don't seem to understand how MVP voting works. No one here is offended. 

You're citing shit like BA and OBP that has extremely little bearing on stuff like this. Semien isn't Barry Bonds but he's an above-average hitter who routinely goes well in to the 700s in plate appearances and also plays well above-average defense and is frequently on teams that win a lot of games. 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Harper, McCutchen, Posey in relatively recent seasons won MVPs with numbers that aren’t way different. 

 

Um, bullshit.

Harper's MVP Seasons:

2015 - .330 BA, .460 OBP  .649 SLG and 9.7 WAR

2021 - .309 BA, .429 OBP  .615 SLG and 5.9 WAR

McCutchen 

2013 - .317 BA, .404 OBP, .542 SLG and 7.8 WAR

Posey

2012 - .336 BA, .408 OBP, .549 SLG and 7.6 WAR

Semien's 3 MVP Caliber seasons?

2019 - .285 BA, .369 OBP, .522 SLG and 8.5 WAR

2021 - .265 BA, .334 OBP, .538 SLG and 7.1 WAR

2023 - .276 BA, .348 OBP, .478 SLG and 7.4 WAR

The only thing in the ballpark are the WAR numbers.  

 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You cannot be serious.

What am I missing?   He's an average hitter.  2021, he hits .265 and is in the running for an MVP.   Meanwhile, the worst of the 4 seasons of the others is 24 points higher than his best season and 44 points better than his worst.   Harper's 2015 season blows his best one away. 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25907

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Ohtani went over 400 total bases last night.

 

Total bases is not a statistic mentioned often. Accumulating 400 total bases in a season doesn’t have the panache of, say, batting .400.

Leave it to Shohei Ohtani to reach another rare milestone and prompt statisticians to dive back into the digital record books. He became the first player in 23 years and only 19th in baseball history to reach 400 total bases Thursday night when the Dodgers clinched the National League West title.

So, are total bases meaningful?

Bill James, the godfather of modern baseball analytics, thought so. He included the stat in the seminal Runs Created formula he devised in the 1970s, which simply counts times on base, multiplied by bases advanced, divided by opportunities.

Bases advanced, in a nutshell, are total bases: a single counts as one, a double as two, a triple as three and a home run as four. Attaining 400 total bases reflects uncommon power and relentless offensive production.

Ohtani reached the milestone with his last hit Thursday, a bloop double in the eighth inning of a 7-2 victory over the San Diego Padres. He became the first player to reach 400 since four players did so during the steroids-fueled offensive binge of 2001.

 

The 18 previous players to reach 400 achieved it 29 times among them. It was a relatively frequent occurrence in the 1920s and 1930s after a livelier baseball was introduced, then was rarely attained until the steroids era.

Babe Ruth set the record of 457 total bases in 1921 and accumulated 417 in 1927, the year he hit 60 home runs. His New York Yankees teammate Lou Gehrig eclipsed 400 total bases a record five times, and fellow Hall of Famers Jimmie Foxx, Chuck Klein and Rogers Hornsby each accomplished it twice.

The milestone was rarely reached thereafter. Stan Musial was the only player to reach 400 in the 1940s and Henry Aaron the only player in the 1950s. Jim Rice posted 405 total bases in 1978 and Larry Walker, playing home games in the thin air of Coors Field, had 409 in 1997.

Walker’s teammate with the Rockies, Todd Helton, twice eclipsed 400, as did Sammy Sosa. Helton, Sosa, Barry Bonds and Luis Gonzalez all cracked 400 in 2001, and nobody else did so until Ohtani. Aaron Judge is hot on his heels at 392 after hitting his 58th home run Thursday, one more total base than he finished with in 2022.

Ohtani has already set records in his first season as a Dodger, becoming the first player to hit 50 home runs and steal 50 bases in a season. He currently has 53 homers and 56 stolen bases to go with a .305 batting average and NL-leading totals of 126 runs batted in, 131 runs scored, a .387 on-base percentage and a .643 slugging percentage as the Dodgers conclude the regular season with a three-game series at the Colorado Rockies on Friday night.

 

He’s delivered when the Dodgers needed it most as they fended off a surge by the Padres the last few weeks. In his last seven games, Ohtani accounted for 40 total bases by going 20 for 29 — including five home runs and five doubles — with 16 RBIs and 13 runs.

Remaining that hot through the weekend could possibly result in him winning the triple crown. His batting average is third behind the Padres’ Luis Arráez (.312) and the Atlanta Braves’ Marcell Azuna (.310).

As onlookers marvel at Ohtani’s litany of staggering accomplishments, it’s easy to overlook his 400 total bases. But he’s joined a club that is more exclusive than that of pitchers who have thrown a perfect game (24 members).

Ohtani has a lot of climbing to ascend the top of the total bases career list. He has 1,781 after posting four consecutive seasons with more than 300, but the all-time record is a daunting 6,856 by Aaron.

Who among active players has the most total bases? Ohtani doesn’t have to look far. It’s his teammate, Freddie Freeman, with 3,866. The veteran first baseman has eclipsed 300 total bases six times and his career high is 361, set last season.

 

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Derka

Derka 6135

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20 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Um, bullshit.

Harper's MVP Seasons:

2015 - .330 BA, .460 OBP  .649 SLG and 9.7 WAR

2021 - .309 BA, .429 OBP  .615 SLG and 5.9 WAR

McCutchen 

2013 - .317 BA, .404 OBP, .542 SLG and 7.8 WAR

Posey

2012 - .336 BA, .408 OBP, .549 SLG and 7.6 WAR

Semien's 3 MVP Caliber seasons?

2019 - .285 BA, .369 OBP, .522 SLG and 8.5 WAR

2021 - .265 BA, .334 OBP, .538 SLG and 7.1 WAR

2023 - .276 BA, .348 OBP, .478 SLG and 7.4 WAR

The only thing in the ballpark are the WAR numbers.  

 

that 2015 harper season was crazy.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21825

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Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Trout has had his chances to leave the angels.  He’s not to be pitied for his lack of playoff chances. 

They stepped up and paid him.  I get staying and living in Newport.  But no, I don’t pity him.  I love the Angels, they gave us Shohei!

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13028

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57 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

They stepped up and paid him.  I get staying and living in Newport.  But no, I don’t pity him.  I love the Angels, they gave us Shohei!

I certainly don’t feel bad for Trout, but as a baseball fan it sucks that we never will get to see a guy like in the playoffs 

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gofuckyourself

gofuckyourself 8195

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Maybe Arraez holds on, but I'm betting he'll win the triple crown. And reach 200 hits. Unless he sits a game. But with those two in play I bet he doesn't.

Given how he's ending the season, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get both. He'll probably go 7 for 9, at least.

He's 24 for his last 34.

Average has gone up 22 points in 8 games.

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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10 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

33 300 yd games for Ward.  Damn, he looked like shit last year when we beat Wazzu.  But he had no protection.  And we had a great D.  Last year.  This year?  Not so much.

Ohtani IS a spectacular athlete but he's probably not cut out for college football at this point in his career. 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25907

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15 hours ago, gofuckyourself said:

Maybe Arraez holds on, but I'm betting he'll win the triple crown. And reach 200 hits. Unless he sits a game. But with those two in play I bet he doesn't.

Given how he's ending the season, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get both. He'll probably go 7 for 9, at least.

He's 24 for his last 34.

Average has gone up 22 points in 8 games.

Arraez isn't giving up. He want 3 for 5 last night.

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hookemATL

hookemATL 11700

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2 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

Well … that was an inopportune time to commit his first error of the entire season if I heard correctly.

Yep. He saved his one blunder for the literal worst possible moment. An impressive gagging for sure. 

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