Donald Trump 2020

[Beantown Express 2.0 6586]

9 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Iran definitely better watch it's ass. Trump might to start that war a little earlier than he planned.

 

He is too much of a wimp to really start a war with Iran or any big country.  I would think a war with some Caribbean island is more likely.  His followers will eat that up the same way.  USA-1, Barbados-0.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

43 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

To be fair, it's been widely reported that Trump doesn't read his daily briefs. 

[TwiceHorn 31995]

7 hours ago, NWBuck said:

I've been thinking a little about this, and am sure there are people here on Surly that have got more wisdom in this area. I'm also aware that this is a possible thread derail; so I'm happy to think through this in another forum/thread).

But (and I'll admit I've been influenced by this podcast series), I think that the truth of the bolded above depends on the definition of "great" that we're using.

The American Experiment is certainly unique, and has amazing elements that should be celebrated and built upon. But some of our common ways we've described our exceptionalism are incomplete in ways. For instance, we talk about our greatness in terms of liberties and freedoms, but also have an incarceration rate for our citizenry that's among the highest in the world (if not the highest- 'Merica! #1!).

We think about our economic greatness, but don't often openly discuss that it is built on hundreds of years of unpaid and enslaved labor. We don't also reflect that much of our current place in the world's economy is due to the manufacturing buildup necessary during WW2 and the benefit of being fortunate enough to be the only remaining industrial power following V-E and V-J days. (We also don't talk a lot about the economic impacts, benefits and losses, of the incarceration situation mentioned earlier).

If we define greatness in other ways, (education, equity, environmental stewardship, etc.), the conversation changes somewhat. Taking the idea of equity, if we believe the quote attributed to Ghandi that "“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members", we have real issues. Enormous income and educational imbalances across our nation point to work towards greatness that needs to done.

But- to the point that started this... if we're only defining greatness through individual terms, then we can get stuck not caring about others, outside of seeing them as benchmarks by which to measure our individual successes and areas for growth.

Which is why it's so frustrating that our religion and spirituality have been co-opted to the point where we've lost this. A hallmark of spirituality is recognizing not just our personal worth, but our interconnectedness and the worth of others.

(except for Aggies and Michigan fans. screw those people)

Yeah, I thought about asterisk'ing that.

But I might also suggest that a lot of the problems you note have become exacerbated more recently.

[TwiceHorn 31995]

Having political figures speak at your church, on Sunday, not as part of some lecture series, but on worship day is just flat out wrong.  It's un-Christian and it's un-American.  I don't care if they confine their remarks to their spirituality or don't electioneer.

I'd switch churches the first time that happened.

I'm not going to advocate that churches be taxed for the 100,000+ other churches that do and would do no such thing.  I would argue passionately that FBC and "Dream Church" and Gateway Church should have their exemptions stripped.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31995]

8 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

To be fair, it's been widely reported that Trump doesn't read his daily briefs. 

Sometimes they are read to him.  Like a toddler.

[SimonBolivar 11040]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Sometimes they are read to him.  Like a toddler.

It's also been reported that he struggles to pay attention when they try to read it to him, that they have to refer to him by name in order to keep his attention, and that he often winds up just talking over them anyway. 

[TwiceHorn 31995]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It's also been reported that he struggles to pay attention when they try to read it to him, that they have to refer to him by name in order to keep his attention, and that he often winds up just talking over them anyway. 

Somewhere I read that he was having a briefing with Huntsman about something serious (pertaining to Russia I assume), and he starts going off about how good and attractive Abby is, and they wind up calling her on the phone and talking about nonsense.  I think it was the Fiona HIll article in the New Yorker.

[Anastasis 23703]

I am sure that the timing of this IC sourced leak, undermining the continued talks intended to bring to end a two decade old war in Afghanistan is purely coincidental. Its amazing how the media eats this stuff up without barely an ounce of critical challenge and inspection.  Push back and vet the information, try to understand what nuance may exist in the intel, and verify its accuracy.  If it is accurate and complete, make the full case to the American people.

Or just uncritically roll out IC fodder for the people who would like to see endless military engagement in the middle east and afghanistan. I mean, it's not like we haven't see this kind of thing before.

 

[Anastasis 23703]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Somewhere I read that he was having a briefing with Huntsman about something serious (pertaining to Russia I assume), and he starts going off about how good and attractive Abby is, and they wind up calling her on the phone and talking about nonsense.  I think it was the Fiona HIll article in the New Yorker.

It was. 

Same article also described how the media was manipulated into reporting that was inaccurate, according to Hill, and intended to neutralize McMaster and set the stage for the ascent of Bolton.

As Hill’s staff assembled the briefing materials for a call between Trump and Putin to discuss Syria and North Korea, the State Department requested that McMaster instruct Trump not to congratulate Putin. Hill and McMaster did not pass the request on to Trump. “It would just make him do it even more adamantly, because he’s reflexively contrarian,” a former official told me. Later, the Washington Post reported that Trump had not followed “specific warnings from his national security advisers,” including “a section in his briefing materials in all-capital letters stating ‘do not congratulate.’ ” Predictably, Trump was furious with McMaster, and Hill surmised that an official with access to the briefing materials had set him up. “We were all being used again, us and you guys in the press, by those who wanted H.R. to be fired,” she told me. Hill offered to quit in solidarity if he was let go, but he said that she should stay in the job to insure a smooth transition. A few days later, Trump fired McMaster and hired John Bolton, a foreign-policy hawk, as national-security adviser.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Anastasis

[TheStoicPaisano 9948]

21 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13710]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Somewhere I read that he was having a briefing with Huntsman about something serious (pertaining to Russia I assume), and he starts going off about how good and attractive Abby is, and they wind up calling her on the phone and talking about nonsense.  I think it was the Fiona HIll article in the New Yorker.

in fairness, the article didn't have the attractive angle about Abby but I'm sure that was the motivation and perhaps Trump said as much but Hill didn't want to include that tidbit. In this situation, it's implied that Hill is in the room so I trust her account of the overall story.

Quote

Trump had little interest in hearing the Ambassador’s [Huntsman] thoughts about Putin, preferring to talk about Huntsman’s daughter, Abby, who was then the co-host of “Fox & Friends Weekend.” “Let’s call Abby!” Trump said on one occasion. “Get her on the phone!”

Eventually we are going to hear hundreds of stories even from GOP sources. Imagine if you have a serious job like ambassador to Russia and you have a few minutes to talk to the President and he only wants to use you as an excuse to get your daughter on the phone. At what point do you give up and perhaps only hope to hold things together. I would guess that a Trump win in November will demoralize many right-thinking career govt officials.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Chet Steadman 940]

8 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Not sure where to post this...

 

We desperately need more SBC right now.  

[LABEVO 928]

1 hour ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

In which we get a “white power” quip from a POTUS retweet. All these clowns can hurry up and die.

 

wHy DoNt MinOrItIeS vOte R......?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13710]

1 minute ago, LABEVO said:

wHy DoNt MinOrItIeS vOte R......?

the lack of masks and the old age of the people in the video doesn't bode well for local hospitals. Screaming at each other a few feet apart will speed up the eventual transmission process.

[TwiceHorn 31995]

That is alternately hilarious and extremely disturbing.

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

12 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

wHy DoNt MinOrItIeS vOte R......?

Let the furrowing commence! 

[Red Five 41605]

1 hour ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

In which we get a “white power” quip from a POTUS retweet. All these clowns can hurry up and die.

 

You know, I read all the replies here before watching the video. "Certainly not". Yep, a couple of guys screaming White Power!! at each other, just a few seconds in.

We've gone from dog whistle to bullhorn to just "LOOK HERE I'M TOTALLY WITH YOU WHITE SUPREMACISTS".

[GW Hayduke 1957]

41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am sure that the timing of this IC sourced leak, undermining the continued talks intended to bring to end a two decade old war in Afghanistan is purely coincidental. Its amazing how the media eats this stuff up without barely an ounce of critical challenge and inspection.  Push back and vet the information, try to understand what nuance may exist in the intel, and verify its accuracy.  If it is accurate and complete, make the full case to the American people.

Or just uncritically roll out IC fodder for the people who would like to see endless military engagement in the middle east and afghanistan. I mean, it's not like we haven't see this kind of thing before.

 

The Deep State, what we gonna do??

Chop’em up like Saudis do!

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

That moment when just saying all Mexicans are rapists and criminals isnt good enough.

White power! -Trump 2020

Also great that after it becomes public Russia was trying to kill American soldiers Trumps rebuttal is..? Calling Biden old.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Loch Ness Monster

[Anastasis 23703]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

The Deep State, what we gonna do??

Chop’em up like Saudis do!

Or maybe WMD em like Hussein does!

 

I sincerely hope that guys like you are able to return to thinking critically about the behavior of the IC once trump is gone. 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Anastasis

[TornACL 7792]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good morning!

 

It's ok you guys. There haven't been "many attacks on us".

Very good people on both sides, I'm sure. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19407]

11 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/trump-losing-2020-election-342326

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nunberg pointed to national polls released by CNBC and New York Times/Siena over the past week showing Trump receiving below 40 percent against Biden.

If Trump's numbers against erode to 35 percentage points over the next two weeks, Nunberg added, “He’s going to be facing realistically a 400-plus electoral vote loss and the president would need to strongly reconsider whether he wants to continue to run as the Republican presidential nominee.”

Behind the scenes, Trump and his team are taking steps to correct course. In the week since his Tulsa rally, the president has grudgingly conceded that he’s behind, according to three people who are familiar with his thinking. Trump, who vented for days about the event, is starting to take a more hands-on role in the campaign and has expressed openness to adding more people to the team. He has also held meetings recently focusing on his efforts in individual battleground states.

Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who effectively oversees the campaign from the White House, is expected to play an even more active role.

Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale was blamed internally for the Tulsa rally failure. Some people complained about him trumpeting that 1 million people had requested tickets, a boast that fell flat when thousands of seats sat empty during Trump's speech. 

Parscale has been a target of some Trump allies who argue the campaign is lacking a coherent strategy and direction. But people close to the president insist that Parscale's job is safe for now. Trump, who visited the campaign’s Arlington, Virginia headquarters a few months ago, has told people he came away impressed with the sophistication of the organization.

Parscale, whose background is as a digital strategist, has received some reinforcements in recent weeks. Longtime Trump adviser Bill Stepien was given added responsibilities in the campaign, including working with political director Chris Carr and the Republican National Committee on voter turnout. And Jason Miller, a veteran of the 2016 campaign, was brought back to serve as a chief political strategist, a position that had been unfilled.

But those internal moves have done little to calm Republican jitters about the president's personal performance. Fox News host and Trump favorite Tucker Carlson issued a blunt warning on his show this week that the president “could well lose this election.” South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, another close Trump ally, told reporters that the president needs to make the race “more about policy and less about your personality.”

Trump's team insists the president’s numbers are bound to improve as he steps up his public events and intensifies his attacks on Biden. People involved in the campaign say they have settled on two main avenues to go after the former vice president: That he’s beholden to liberals who want to do away with law and order, and that he’s a consummate Washington insider.

The campaign has begun a massive TV ad campaign going after the 77-year-old former vice president, including over his mental capacity and his nearly five-decade political career. Hoping to make inroads with African-American voters, Trump's campaign is running ads slamming Biden over his central role in the 1994 crime bill. 

The commercials are airing in an array of states including Georgia, a traditionally red state where Trump suddenly finds himself in a fight. The cash-flush campaign is expected to remain on the TV airwaves in a host of key states through the election..

Veterans of Trump’s first presidential campaign liken their current predicament to the nightmarish summer of 2016, when he was buffeted by an array of self-inflicted scandals — from his criticism of a Gold Star family to his attack on a federal judge of Mexican ancestry.

Then as now, Trump trailed badly.

“There was similar fretting in 2016 and if it had been accurate, Hillary Clinton would be in the White House right now. Joe Biden is the weakest Democrat candidate in a generation and we are defining him that way,” said Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh. “We are four months from Election Day and in the end it will be a clear choice between President Trump’s incredible record of achievement and Joe Biden’s half-century of failure in Washington, D.C.”

Still, Trump advisers acknowledge that tearing down Biden will require a level of discipline he isn’t demonstrating. They have pleaded with Trump — who has used his Twitter account to vilify critics from MSNBC host Joe Scarborough to former National Security Adviser John Bolton — to stop focusing on slights that mean little to voters.

Biden's low-profile during the pandemic has made it that much harder for Trump to land a punch, his advisers said. 

But Republicans say he and his campaign need to figure out something soon.

“The key factor has been that Biden has been able to stay out of the race,” said David McIntosh, the president of the pro-Trump Club for Growth. “Republicans have to start defining Biden and put resources and effort and consistent messaging behind it.”

 

You know your presidency is complete shit when getting impeached isn't the low point.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Or maybe WMD em like Hussein does!

 

I sincerely hope that guys like you are able to return to thinking critically about the behavior of the IC once trump is gone. 

Lulz.  It’s definitely the deep state intelligence being mean to poor victim trump who has faithfully served the interests of our country these last three years

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

If only those in the IC said something, we would know who bears most of the plame.

As of now, with Trump's denial that he knew anything about this bombshell, the accuracy of where the IC deems this assessment on the likelihood spectrum is arguably secondary to the Commander-In-Chief claiming to be unaware.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[Red Five 41605]

Pence struggling on Face the Nation. "Mr. Pence, 125,000 Americans have died and the President is still talking shit about masks and testing. Wtf?"

"Well, that is a good question, but I would like to respond as if you had asked me a different question entirely..."

[Nice Guy Eddie 13710]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

Pence struggling on Face the Nation. "Mr. Pence, 125,000 Americans have died and the President is still talking shit about masks and testing. Wtf?"

"Well, that is a good question, but I would like to respond as if you had asked me a different question entirely..."

Pence's aw shucks attitude makes me hate him more than Trump. 

From listening to the HHS secretary this morning on CNN, it's apparent that the Trump Admin has given up on trying to contain or lessen the spread of the virus. Instead they want to put the pressure on the healthcare system to keep the deaths as low as possible. They're basically retreating to the last available position outside of assisting funeral homes.

[Mo Horn 8933]

1 hour ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

He is too much of a wimp to really start a war with Iran or any big country.  I would think a war with some Caribbean island is more likely.  His followers will eat that up the same way.  USA-1, Barbados-0.

Venezuela would be my bet. Maduro is an easy target, and the military would have to figure out who to support. The only hitch is that Putin would not be happy. 

[4th&Five 41907]

Did this one get posted? The irony...

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

In which we get a “white power” quip from a POTUS retweet. All these clowns can hurry up and die.  

 

In some ways I am glad he is being more open with it, honestly. GOP voters who try to pretend they aren’t voting for racism can’t keep up that pretense any more.

 

On the the hand, I remember when all the Maury Povich (no idea how to spell that) Jenny Jones, early Oprah (before she went all wise) day time talk shows were the rage. They would have some type of idiots on so they could be mocked by an indignant audience. White Supremacists and KKK types were a recurring theme.

 

Because regardless of your political leanings they were supposed to be mocked and shunned. Too ridiculous to exist in our society.

 

Now we have a so-called President who openly empowers those who we as a society (even Republicans of the day) said should be shunned.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Organized religion’s support of trump will be its downfall. There is no coming back from that. 

The alliance between fascism and Christianity has always existed because they have similar authoritarian centralized power/wealth patriarchal power structures. Mussolini made an alliance with the Pope.  The Catholic Church in Spain aligned with Franco to protect the priests from the socialists. For the church, fascism offers the protection of their wealth and supremacy.  For the fascist, the church offers easier control of the population from violent uprisings.  It’s a natural alliance. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

27 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Venezuela would be my bet. Maduro is an easy target, and the military would have to figure out who to support. The only hitch is that Putin would not be happy. 

That's a mighty big hitch. 

[SydneyCarton 49349]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pence's aw shucks attitude makes me hate him more than Trump. 

From listening to the HHS secretary this morning on CNN, it's apparent that the Trump Admin has given up on trying to contain or lessen the spread of the virus. Instead they want to put the pressure on the healthcare system to keep the deaths as low as possible. They're basically retreating to the last available position outside of assisting funeral homes.

Imma stop you right there. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

Who's dumber? Mike Pence or Sarah Palin?

That's a tight race. 

[Fozzz 152]

The only way to prevent our troops from being killed by the Taliban is to remove them from Afghanistan.  If you wish to keep the troops in Afghanistan under whatever pretext the only logical assumption is that you actually want the troops to die.  

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Guest Lobo]

8 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Who's dumber? Mike Pence or Sarah Palin?

That's a tight race. 

I know it's fun to call Pence dumb.  He's a lot of things, but dumb isn't one of them.  I mean, he got better grades at Hanover than Woody Boyd.  So that's something.  Pence is misguided and twisted, but he ain't dumb.  I think Trump may actually be dumb.  Working with an intellectual command of the average American, maybe even a tad lower.  

Now Palin was just out and out stupid.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4075]

Also, turns out he is the puppet, after all. Go figure. Not the biggest Hillary fan, but she did warn us.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

13 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The only way to prevent our troops from being killed by the Taliban is to remove them from Afghanistan.  If you wish to keep the troops in Afghanistan under whatever pretext the only logical assumption is that you actually want the troops to die.  

not sure if srs.  That’s true Of literally every war 

[jimmyjazz 46986]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I am sure that the timing of this IC sourced leak, undermining the continued talks intended to bring to end a two decade old war in Afghanistan is purely coincidental. Its amazing how the media eats this stuff up without barely an ounce of critical challenge and inspection.  Push back and vet the information, try to understand what nuance may exist in the intel, and verify its accuracy.  If it is accurate and complete, make the full case to the American people.

Or just uncritically roll out IC fodder for the people who would like to see endless military engagement in the middle east and afghanistan. I mean, it's not like we haven't see this kind of thing before.

From the NYT story:

Quote

Spokespeople at the National Security Council, the Pentagon, the State Department and the C.I.A. declined to comment.

Quote

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the delicate intelligence and internal deliberations. They said the intelligence had been treated as a closely held secret, but the administration expanded briefings about it this week — including sharing information about it with the British government, whose forces are among those said to have been targeted.

 

Vetting the intelligence to understand "nuance", particularly given an administration that sees the media as the enemy, would be difficult if not impossible.  Revelations to the UK could have been the source of the leak as well.  Regardless, the story is as much or more about Trump's refusal to do anything after receiving the information as it is the information itself.

Kudos to you for again focusing on a tangential issue.

[HenryJames 67127]

 

[Red Five 41605]

Uh fucking huh.

[Mo Horn 8933]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

 

 So they've moved on from he was joking, when he tweets or says stupid stuff,  to he doesn't pay attention to something before he retweets it. Not sure that's a better defense. 

[Ted Lange 16361]

“President Trump loves his racist senior citizen supporters, but doesn’t like when they say racist stuff out loud, on camera”

[Red Five 41605]

"WHITE POWER!" is screamed three times in the first 11 seconds of that video. 

[Guest Lobo]

Well yeah, but not in a row.  

[SameSame 1745]

47 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

In some ways I am glad he is being more open with it, honestly. GOP voters who try to pretend they aren’t voting for racism can’t keep up that pretense any more.

 

On the the hand, I remember when all the Maury Povich (no idea how to spell that) Jenny Jones, early Oprah (before she went all wise) day time talk shows were the rage. They would have some type of idiots on so they could be mocked by an indignant audience. White Supremacists and KKK types were a recurring theme.

 

Because regardless of your political leanings they were supposed to be mocked and shunned. Too ridiculous to exist in our society.

 

Now we have a so-called President who openly empowers those who we as a society (even Republicans of the day) said should be shunned.

I remember seeing the talk shows with white supremacists back in the day as well, there was one conversation that stuck with me.

They were asked if they one day wanted political power, they were flat open about it and said we already have people in political power positions.  We have people throughout the country on your school boards, your city councils, state legislatures and we’ll one day have someone in the White House.  
 

I thought it was just nutso hate talk, but they were right.

[Anastasis 23703]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Lulz.  It’s definitely the deep state intelligence being mean to poor victim trump who has faithfully served the interests of our country these last three years

This has nothing to do with victim Trump or whatever straw man you are constructing. It has to do with the long history of instigating conflict based on faulty IC intel. I guess we are just suppose to uncritically accept the depictions of anonymous IC sources without any substantive vetting or consideration of the context and potential motivations.  What could go wrong. We know that, as some are fond to promote here, the CIA is responsible for the longest period of Western European centered peace and stability in world history. What’s an Iran or iraq or Afghanistan as long the machine keeps churning?

 

 

 

 

[Anastasis 23703]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Kudos to you for again focusing on a tangential issue.

Kudos to you for failing to learn a single lesson from the history of IC failures resulting in needless war after needless war.  Just tangential issues. Lol. 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Anastasis

[BrickHorn 18426]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I am sure that the timing of this IC sourced leak, undermining the continued talks intended to bring to end a two decade old war in Afghanistan is purely coincidental. Its amazing how the media eats this stuff up without barely an ounce of critical challenge and inspection.  Push back and vet the information, try to understand what nuance may exist in the intel, and verify its accuracy.  If it is accurate and complete, make the full case to the American people.

Or just uncritically roll out IC fodder for the people who would like to see endless military engagement in the middle east and afghanistan. I mean, it's not like we haven't see this kind of thing before.

 

How the fuck does “Americans in Afghanistan are now even more at risk” support the case for continued engagement in that country?