Donald Trump 2020

[SizzleChest 8,275]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was reading an article by someone like Peggy Noonan (may have been Peggy Noonan), that said that Republicans started to fall apart once the Soviet Union fell apart.  They united and galvanized over the threat of communism and once that was gone, everything kind of went to shit.

That's like the line from the movie Conspiracy, which included Kritzinger, based on the Wannssee Conference.   The character's mother died, whom he loved, but he didn't cry at the funeral.  His father, whom he hated, dies and he cried like a bitch at his funeral because he lost what kept him going - the hate for his father.

Edited August 21, 2020 by SizzleChest

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,342]

10 minutes ago, 'stache said:

How do I tell Youtube to stop putting this asshole's insane ads at the top of my feed? It's seriously qanon shit.

You need an adblocker. Adguard is the titties. 

[purplepride95 6,890]

[hobbes2702 12,791]

42 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Former Republicans that come out now expressing horror at what the party has become weren’t paying any attention at all from the time the first plane crashed into the WTC.

You mean since Nixon right?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Talks about racism are complicated without the political dynamics but on a fundamental level it comes down to how much white people value their own whiteness (white privilege) in relation to everyone else and how much is that perceived advantage worth protecting through policy/government.  That’s where racism comes from IMO and it’s easily exploitable b/c every white person knows damn well they have the upper hand in society and it’s an injustice we’ve normalized. 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

39 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 the election of a black man caused them to have an en masse psychotic break.

Now there's a thought I hadn't considered.

The racism that was always present combined with the voices that were now being allowed more freedom to speak certainly caused an internal discomfort that resulted in a defensive posture by a lotta lotta people. but the QAnon stuff isn't all that new, hoaxes and susceptibility to them have been around for centuries it's just social media and the way the brain works when on a computer (I absolutely know I didn't type that correctly but I can't think of the right phrase) creates a vicious addiction cycle and comfort cycle. I truly think they become unable to walk away. Not unlike the Fox News set.

Speaking of Fox and their alternate reality, they recognize that this will make gobs of money for them and have slowly swung around to embrace it. It's becoming less subtle but it was always there. Turning the gas up little by little. The other new networks like OANN being somewhat Russian in origin or Russian friendly anyway and completely familiar with manipulation just waltzed right in and grabbed them by the ....well, you know.

That the GOP has decided to roll this way is not surprising at all. It's the last shot at the oligarchy of their dreams. Stephen Miller knows it. Bannon knew it. A lot of them are smart enough to know what they are doing and that is why they are evil shitheads. I don't care if they have rationalized it and truly believe it. They should forever be remembered for their perfidy.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
correction

[RomaVicta 29,769]

16 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

 

 

I'm usually a tough audience for an appeal like this. I gave it ten seconds and then...my heart just sank. Such shame the dotard brings down upon us.

How could have ever been in the conversation for President of the United States? We become so monstrous. 

[Guest Lobo]

10 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

That's like the line from a movie whose name currently escapes me.  The character's mother died, whom he loved, but he didn't cry at the funeral.  His father, whom he hated, dies and he cried like a bitch at his funeral because he lost what kept him going - the hate for his father.

"Conspiracy."  The character to whom you are referring is Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger, Deputy Chief of the Reich Chancellery.  He was not a character, he was a real man and was my most accords, the 5th or 6th highest ranking Nazi in all of the Reich from 1938 to 1945...and the highest ranking member of the Party to oppose the Final Solution to the Jewish Question.  The story he told, in real life, to Heydrich was not about him though...it was about a friend of his.  It was his warning to the SS, that their hatred for the Jews should not so consume them that the object of their hatred is gone...they have nothing left to live for.  It is called, in some academic and historian circles, "Kritzinger's Dilemma" despite it being about an unnamed friend of his.  It's an ageless cautionary tale that transcends millennia and cultures.  

I think of it a lot now for disconcerted Republicans, that when we have removed Trump from office and perhaps from this World...that when he is gone, we can find something else to fight for politically.  And for Democrats, they should take heed of Kritzinger's story...that when Trump is done...the object of their hatred should not so consume them that they have nothing left  to fight for.  There's a half dozen twists on the story and Trump, but they all have one thing in common.  Trump is the mean father who beat the son mercilessly and at whose funeral...the son wept uncontrollably despite barely mourning his doting mother.  When he is gone, all of us...even his dipshit supporters who have been fucked over by him time and time again, all of us will have to look elsewhere to aim our hatred.  My worry is...it will be one another.  So goes Kritzinger's warning.  Germany turned on itself.  And despite that...they are a model for us now...\

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Lobo

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Republicans got more radicalized with racism over time as their power dwindled and the leadership exploited race as political weapon.  

GOP Primary debate: Bush vs Reagan 

Bush sounds like Bernie Sanders

Reagan sounds like Julian Castro 

 

GOP leadership knew they had racists in their faction but didn’t pander to it as much overtly, there were subtle dog whistles but nothing like today.  9/11 cranked up the xenophobia to 11 and made it exponentially easier to demonize any non-white Christian (othering). Add in social media, foreign influence operations, eight years of a Black President, and you have the Party of Trumpism.

Who are those two socialist hippies?  Not a power tie to be had between the two of them. No lapel flag on Bush and Reagan's is too small (not even sure if it is US flag).

[SizzleChest 8,275]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

"Conspiracy."  The character to whom you are referring is Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger, Deputy Chief of the Reich Chancellery.  He was not a character, he was a real man and was my most accords, the 5th or 6th highest ranking Nazi in all of the Reich from 1938 to 1945...and the highest ranking member of the Party to oppose the Final Solution to the Jewish Question.  The story he told, in real life, to Heydrich was not about him though...it was about a friend of his.  It was his warning to the SS, that their hatred for the Jews should not so consume them that the object of their hatred is gone...they have nothing left to live for.  It is called, in some academic and historian circles, "Kritzinger's Dilemma" despite it being about an unnamed friend of his.  It's an ageless cautionary tale that transcends millennia and cultures.  

I think of it a lot now for disconcerted Republicans, that when we have removed Trump from office and perhaps from this World...that when he is gone, we can find something else to fight for politically.  And for Democrats, they should take heed of Kritzinger's story...that when Trump is done...the object of their hatred should not so consume them that they have nothing left  to fight for.  There's a half dozen twists on the story and Trump, but they all have one thing in common.  Trump is the mean father who beat the son mercilessly and at whose funeral...the son wept uncontrollably despite barely mourning his doting mother.  When he is gone, all of us...even his dipshit supporters who have been fucked over by him time and time again, all of us will have to look elsewhere to aim our hatred.  My worry is...it will be one another.  So goes Kritzinger's warning.  Germany turned on itself.  And despite that...they are a model for us now...

Yeah, I recalled it right after I hit submit and saw you posted about Kritzinger.  My memory sucks.

[Red Five 40,627]

11 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

That's like the line from the movie Conspiracy, which included Kritzinger, based on the Wannssee Conference.   The character's mother died, whom he loved, but he didn't cry at the funeral.  His father, whom he hated, dies and he cried like a bitch at his funeral because he lost what kept him going - the hate for his father.

I will cry at your funeral, SizzleChest. 

I turned on Katy Tur (not the first time amirite) and she's talking about interviewing Trump supporters. They all said if Trump loses, that means the election was rigged. It's almost like dangerous rhetoric is dangerous. 

[Guest Lobo]

you and me both, Sizzle Chest.  But don't be hard on yourself, it was a small role in a small film.  But the Warning, the Kritzinger's Dilemma is an age-old foreboding story from way on way back when.  I use it now because it mainly had to do with ethnic and provincial hate.  

[jimmyjazz 45,538]

1 minute ago, SizzleChest said:

Yeah, I recalled it right after I hit submit and saw you posted about Kritzinger.  My memory sucks.

That film is amazing.  Kenneth Branagh's character (SS brass Reinhard Heydrich) was masterful in driving the room towards Hitler's desired solution:  extermination of European Jews.  I felt completely disgusted by the end.  Every HS kid needs to watch that film.  Actually, every American needs to watch that film.

[Kyrie Eleison 9,312]

13 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

  But the Warning, the Kritzinger's Dilemma is an age-old foreboding story from way on way back when.  I use it now because it mainly had to do with ethnic and provincial hate.  

It's why we have so many alien movies.

Some directors go with the aliens are taking over the world.

Some directors go with the humans and aliens can create a wonderful universe.

IMO, the first one is the lazy way of existing.

[Brisketexan 104,537]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That film is amazing.  Kenneth Branagh's character (SS brass Reinhard Heydrich) was masterful in driving the room towards Hitler's desired solution:  extermination of European Jews.  I felt completely disgusted by the end.  Every HS kid needs to watch that film.  Actually, every American needs to watch that film.

"The banality of evil" indeed.   Just over a year ago, we spent a great afternoon on the sunny deck of a tour boat, eating incredible strawberries, drinking great cold beer, and enjoying the peaceful scenery of....Wannsee.  We sailed right past the villa where the Final Solution was agreed upon.

All of this "it can't happen here" bullshit bothers me so much because, as you drive in that area, and sail by on the lake, you would ABSOLUTELY think that anti-human evil "couldn't happen here."  But it did.  Right over there, off to the right.  Put down your beer for a minute and realize that a plan that successfully exterminated millions was cooked up at the villa right behind those two paddleboarders.

It happened there.  Similar evil can happen here.  It's already happening.  The question is whether we can do better than the Germans did -- can we stop it?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,668]

50 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Republicans got more radicalized with racism over time as their power dwindled and the leadership exploited race as political weapon.  

GOP Primary debate: Bush vs Reagan 

Bush sounds like Bernie Sanders

Reagan sounds like Julian Castro 

 

GOP leadership knew they had racists in their faction but didn’t pander to it as much overtly, there were subtle dog whistles but nothing like today.  9/11 cranked up the xenophobia to 11 and made it exponentially easier to demonize any non-white Christian (othering). Add in social media, foreign influence operations, eight years of a Black President, and you have the Party of Trumpism.

fuggin ridiculous to hear a debate where they try to answer the actual question posed.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

The issue as I see it @Brisketexan is that while you would like to stop it, others seem hell bent upon improving what Hitler didn't finish.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

1 minute ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

fuggin ridiculous to hear a debate where they try to answer the actual question posed.

[Guest Lobo]

20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That film is amazing.  Kenneth Branagh's character (SS brass Reinhard Heydrich) was masterful in driving the room towards Hitler's desired solution:  extermination of European Jews.  I felt completely disgusted by the end.  Every HS kid needs to watch that film.  Actually, every American needs to watch that film.

Every American should not watch that movie, because most of them wouldn't understand it.  And some of them would come away from it with "ideas."  Be happy that a shitty wall built on fraudulent lies and a few crappy detainment centers are the worst that has happened thus far until this administration.  Stephen Miller is the only Jew I know who finished "Conspiracy" and was bummed out to learn that Heydrich was assassinated shortly thereafter.  

As you well know, most of the dialogue comes from the discovered transcripts of the actual meeting (the transcript was used to make two other earlier versions of the film, as well as evidence at Nuremberg).  But the HBO version does one thing so poetically brilliant.  It has Kritzinger, much earlier in the film, point out to Heydrich that it is growing colder in Russia (the weather...but also the German warfighting passion).  Then later gives him the cautionary tale about his friend.  They two comments are never forcibly linked, except that if you know your history...you know that Kritzinger's Warning or Dilemma has two parts, the one expressed by Eichmann...that their hatred for the Jews should not so consume their lives that they have nothing left to live for (like the boy in the funeral story)......but that their hatred is already driving them to losing the war in Russia because their supply chains from the West were already being diverted from supplies, weapons, and oil to shuttling around Jews to be exterminated.  Kritzinger is horribly flawed, but he shows us two brilliant stories and two brilliant flaws.  He knows the Reich cannot sustain war with Russia if they focus on killing Jews behind the Eastern Front (he is an original architect of conscripted Waffen SS from occupied territories), and he knows that eventually---despite his prestigious position---he must openly acknowledge his support of the Final Solution at the Conference.  He becomes what everybody who reads about WWII history thinks they would have avoided.  He goes from being the voice of reason and denouncer of genocide to a willing participant in it...all in one afternoon.  "I would never have gone along with the Holocaust" says everybody, ever since.  But this man openly opposed it and signed off on it, over the course of a one-day Summit.  

And every day in my country, I watch people of previous integrity.....one by one.....become Kritzingers before my very eyes and ears.  That's his true warning to us all.  

Edited August 21, 2020 by Lobo

[RomaVicta 29,769]

52 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Republicans got more radicalized with racism over time as their power dwindled and the leadership exploited race as political weapon.  

GOP Primary debate: Bush vs Reagan 

Bush sounds like Bernie Sanders

Reagan sounds like Julian Castro 

 

GOP leadership knew they had racists in their faction but didn’t pander to it as much overtly, there were subtle dog whistles but nothing like today.  9/11 cranked up the xenophobia to 11 and made it exponentially easier to demonize any non-white Christian (othering). Add in social media, foreign influence operations, eight years of a Black President, and you have the Party of Trumpism.

Wow. Such a fine moment for the GOPs. Now totally repudiated. 

This clip is also a fine example of what I mean by discourse when I lament its disappearance. I expected Reagan to take the easy shot of calling Bush a panderer or soft on crime, but he took up the point at the level Bush did.

I don't like Reagan and what he meant to this country, but part of that is that he put a genial face on the nascent hate engine. Here is a good moment for him.

[RomaVicta 29,769]

33 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Talks about racism are complicated without the political dynamics but on a fundamental level it comes down to how much white people value their own whiteness (white privilege) in relation to everyone else and how much is that perceived advantage worth protecting through policy/government.  That’s where racism comes from IMO and it’s easily exploitable b/c every white person knows damn well they have the upper hand in society and it’s an injustice we’ve normalized. 

 

My man Hugo is on fire today.

Somewhat related to this, I began to feel uncomfortable about assuming a position of granting permission when some of the football players made their list of changes they'd like to see.

Why do I, white man RomaVicta, get to decide? Why am I immediately cast as among those with the ultimate say on a statue of Jefferson Davis or keeping The Eyes of Texas? I guess it's the feeling that somebody else is taking while I'm losing. But I'm not really losing anything and they aren't really taking anything from me.

I'm now inclined to support every demand or request as a fellow citizen. I love The Eyes of Texas. I'm a devoted admirer of George Washington and what he meant to the survival of this republic. If they offend, remove them. If we unite in the idea of restoring some of these items, so be it.

We don't really lose anything of value while we do gain in the cause of general inclusion. 

Not sure that I'm carrying this point, but I think there's a there there.

[Brisketexan 104,537]

16 minutes ago, Lobo said:

He becomes what everybody who reads about WWII history thinks they would have avoided.  He goes from being the voice of reason and denouncer of genocide to a willing participant in it...all in one afternoon.  "I would never have gone along with the Holocaust" says everybody, ever since.  But this man openly opposed it and signed off on it, over the course of a one-day Summit.  

And every day in my country, I watch people of previous integrity.....one by one.....become Kritzingers before my very eyes and ears.  That's his true warning to us all.  

Fucking this, this, this, this.

It's that easy.  How do you engage in and support evil?  It's super easy.  You just decide to do it one day, as part of a whole suite of decisions to support a regime/effort/system.

Every one of us has done it in our lives, at least once, on a small scale.  Remember your elementary school-high school years.  Was there a time where a group was treating someone like shit, and instead of protecting them, you (at best) stood by and let it happen, and at worst, joined in the cruelty?  You did.  We all did.  It was SO easy.  And if it's that easy to be cruel to one person, it's that easy to be cruel to millions.  It's just a matter of scale.

And as a nation, we are presently running down that path.  A lot of people see how awful it is, and are fighting like hell against it.  But will it be enough?  Good is hamstrung.  Evil has an advantage.

Mel Brooks is one of the great truth-tellers of our time:

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

That is the 'going along to get along' suite of choices and it works, but there is also the more obvious fifth story hotel window, unmarked van, and  tea drinking suite and the people who are on the sidelines watching those have some sweat on their brow because they realize they may have waited too late.

[Nivek 16,843]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

So the whole Laura Loomer thing started this thought in my brain, but this just brings it back to the fore--

I think that in a few decades, I think it's going to be a hot topic in modern history whether Republicans (1) were always this racist and batshit crazy (and by "always," I mean in modern history probably going back to 1980 or so) and were just a whole lot better at hiding it, or (2) the election of a black man caused them to have an en masse psychotic break.

I don't think those two are entirely mutually exclusive.  There are certainly some who were always racist and batshit crazy.   But was it 96% of them (i.e., Trump's current approval rating among Republicans according to Rasmussen (I know))?  And that giant mass of crazy was just contained and stifled by party elites, many of whom are now Never Trumpers and Democrats?

Or is it that the racist and crazy was a reasonably small number that was easy to contain and stifle.  And the election of Obama caused their racism and crazy to spread to other Republicans who previously had not been so?

I honestly don't know.  I will tell you that, on an individual level, I know some people who I thought were normal people who happened to be Republicans.  I don't even recognize them anymore.  Were they always like that, and I was just too obtuse to see it?  I mean, maybe--I am pretty fucking obtuse sometimes.  But I don't think that's it entirely.  

Brainwashing of my father.   This was a concerted effort requiring decades of to pull off.   Everything about that platform was a lie and a distraction designed to get emotional people to support them, while they enrich themselves and rig the election process.  D's were too stupid to call them for what they are.

[Jive Turkey 12,567]

 

[Guest Lobo]

Can you lawyers explain this for me, "Emergency Motion to Block the Release."  That's what you do when you've spent 4 years claiming that you want your returns released to the public, right?  I mean, I don't speak Latin...but "Emergency Motion to Block the Release"...that's like Ipso Facto Show Themo How Richo I Amo.  Yes?  

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Can you lawyers explain this for me, "Emergency Motion to Block the Release."  That's what you do when you've spent 4 years claiming that you want your returns released to the public, right?  I mean, I don't speak Latin...but "Emergency Motion to Block the Release"...that's like Ipso Facto Show Themo How Richo I Amo.  Yes?  

It means they don’t want Mazars to turn the records over to the Manhattan DA’s office despite losing at the Supreme Court, and then losing a renewed challenge to the subpoena. They filed for a stay with both the 2nd Circuit and SCOTUS. Meanwhile they are yelling DO NOT SHOW OUR CRIMES YET to the accounting firm

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Talks about racism are complicated without the political dynamics but on a fundamental level it comes down to how much white people value their own whiteness (white privilege) in relation to everyone else and how much is that perceived advantage worth protecting through policy/government.  That’s where racism comes from IMO and it’s easily exploitable b/c every white person knows damn well they have the upper hand in society and it’s an injustice we’ve normalized. 

 

To add to this, white privilege is a bug built into our capitalist economic system but Republicans view it as a feature because it protects wealth and power. The guys at the top of our pyramid scheme of an economy know how to use racism as a weapon to keep the population divided and secure political power. Keeping the population divided protects the status quo. It creates gridlock and prevents any policy solution that would address the problems the rich and powerful have no financial interest in addressing.

Richard Pryor casually articulates some of this in an interview. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,240]

Yeah, it's a motion to stay the district court's judgment pending appeal.

One of the fatal flaws, I think, to Trump's strategery is that a federal court is not the right forum to bring various "overbreadth" objections.  I think that would be the state court overseeing the grand jury.  I'm not even sure why he brought his "executive privilege" injunction case before a federal district court.  I suppose he thought federal courts would be a more favorable venue, but it basically lacks jurisdiction to entertain any objection other than executive privilege.

[Wanker Bob 379]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Some interesting quotes.  I'm not sure I completely agree, but they're food for thought:

Actually, almost all of it is race.

 

A very apt metaphor.

 

He's right.  John Danforth came to know my mother when she was an undergrad at Wash U.  She became a "Danny Grad", which was a program founded by John's grandfather William Danforth in which young -women who were recent college graduates spread out across the country at various college campuses to do Christian work.  John became a lifelong friend of our family, and while there were political differences between him and my parents, there were no substantial philosophical differences.  He is a good man.  Josh Hawley, on the other hand, is a fucking evil shitbag who has squandered all of his mighty intellectual talent.

 

I think this shows how disconnected Stevens is from the party he helped gain power.  They used him and he bought the lies.

He's still fighting cognitive dissonance with some rationalization about the Bush and Regan admins he helped get elected not being as horrible for the country as they were. Or acknowledging that Bush's admin was horrible but ONLY because of 9/11 which isn't this guy's fault because that's after the election work was done.

Sorry, dude, the republican party has been promoting racist policy and showing zero signs of fiscal conservatism for over 40 years. It was just ok with you when you were personally profiting from it, and only now that's it's gotten so visibly disgusting that you immediately think NAZI are you willing to see it. 

That aside his observations are spot on. Especially this part which is what brisketexan has been saying all along and what I've felt is destined to be:

GRUNWALD: Obama said after his election that maybe now the fever will break, which was obviously wrong. You don’t think that if the Democrats win big, the fever will break?

STEVENS: No. I think Trump and the Republican Party have officially validated hate as an acceptable response to politics. Just as if we elected a bank robber president, bank robbery will become more socially acceptable, the same thing has happened here. That won’t change.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Wanker Bob

[Biff Tannen 45,491]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Some interesting quotes.  I'm not sure I completely agree, but they're food for thought:

Actually, almost all of it is race.

 

A very apt metaphor.

 

He's right.  John Danforth came to know my mother when she was an undergrad at Wash U.  She became a "Danny Grad", which was a program founded by John's grandfather William Danforth in which young -women who were recent college graduates spread out across the country at various college campuses to do Christian work.  John became a lifelong friend of our family, and while there were political differences between him and my parents, there were no substantial philosophical differences.  He is a good man.  Josh Hawley, on the other hand, is a fucking evil shitbag who has squandered all of his mighty intellectual talent.

 

I think this shows how disconnected Stevens is from the party he helped gain power.  They used him and he bought the lies.

I read some of this article, and it was good, but then I thought “and?”  What good are these articles about former Rs that now see the error of their ways?  How does that help us now?  Are they going to the current GOP and smacking the shit out of them and telling them to smarten up?  Doesn’t seem like it. 
 

Good job former GOP strategist. You realize you were a shitbag. Now what?  

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Good job former GOP strategist. You realize you were a shitbag. Now what?  

He's going to go on tour (virtual). He just wrote a book and he needs to plump up sales. Why, you didn't think he was actually sorry did you? Sucka!

[Lagunamadre 1,975]

 

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, it's a motion to stay the district court's judgment pending appeal.

One of the fatal flaws, I think, to Trump's strategery is that a federal court is not the right forum to bring various "overbreadth" objections.  I think that would be the state court overseeing the grand jury.  I'm not even sure why he brought his "executive privilege" injunction case before a federal district court.  I suppose he thought federal courts would be a more favorable venue, but it basically lacks jurisdiction to entertain any objection other than executive privilege.

From my very limited understanding of law and court procedures it seems that per the agreement between Cy Vance and Trump's legal team, they will wait 7 days from a ruling before they make a formal request for the returns. Question for you legal eagles, would that clock be reset by every new appeals filing? If the appeals courts refuse to hear the case is the 7 day clock still from yesterdays ruling or will it be from 7 days after the appeals courts rejects to hear it. Feels like we are in a situation where this will just keep getting appealed forever, I thought after the Supreme Court made a ruling it would have been over. 

Legally, what is the hard stop if not the supreme court? 

[NWBuck 8,547]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Talks about racism are complicated without the political dynamics but on a fundamental level it comes down to how much white people value their own whiteness (white privilege) in relation to everyone else and how much is that perceived advantage worth protecting through policy/government.  That’s where racism comes from IMO and it’s easily exploitable b/c every white person knows damn well they have the upper hand in society and it’s an injustice we’ve normalized. 

""If people were given the choice between democracy and whiteness, how many would choose whiteness?” -Taylor Branch

[Fudge Nuggets 19,144]

6 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

Legally, what is the hard stop if not the supreme court? 

I can’t wait to see a lower court overturn the Supreme Court.  Once it happens, let’s go right after Citizens United.

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

It means they don’t want Mazars to turn the records over to the Manhattan DA’s office despite losing at the Supreme Court, and then losing a renewed challenge to the subpoena. They filed for a stay with both the 2nd Circuit and SCOTUS. Meanwhile they are yelling DO NOT SHOW OUR CRIMES YET to the accounting firm

Update:

SCOTUS not likely to weigh in, especially given that the 2nd Cir set a super expedited hearing regarding a stay application. 
 

The money question here isn’t whether Trump can win, but can he run out the clock delaying an indictment before the election? The answer is: probably 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,105]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

My man Hugo is on fire today.

Somewhat related to this, I began to feel uncomfortable about assuming a position of granting permission when some of the football players made their list of changes they'd like to see.

Why do I, white man RomaVicta, get to decide? Why am I immediately cast as among those with the ultimate say on a statue of Jefferson Davis or keeping The Eyes of Texas? I guess it's the feeling that somebody else is taking while I'm losing. But I'm not really losing anything and they aren't really taking anything from me.

I'm now inclined to support every demand or request as a fellow citizen. I love The Eyes of Texas. I'm a devoted admirer of George Washington and what he meant to the survival of this republic. If they offend, remove them. If we unite in the idea of restoring some of these items, so be it.

We don't really lose anything of value while we do gain in the cause of general inclusion. 

Not sure that I'm carrying this point, but I think there's a there there.

You are saying something that was a common refrain from the hornfans days....The best things in life aren't things.  I'm with you.

[NWBuck 8,547]

Dayum:

 

[4th&Five 41,457]

24 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Update:

SCOTUS not likely to weigh in, especially given that the 2nd Cir set a super expedited hearing regarding a stay application. 
 

The money question here isn’t whether Trump can win, but can he run out the clock delaying an indictment before the election? The answer is: probably 

I’ve lost track but didn’t scotus already rule on this once?

[4th&Five 41,457]

First WH funeral since JFK. 

 

[DDD Dad 14,243]

12 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

First WH funeral since JFK. 

 

WTF.  That's how he publicly responds to his brother's death?  A week later?!?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

WTF.  That's how he publicly responds to his brother's death?  A week later?!?

The memorial service was held today which was @4th&Five's reference to the WH where it was held. Trump commented publicly a week ago as well unless I'm missing your point.

[Nivek 16,843]

5 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

And that's true of the racism.  But none of that explains the Qanon and other batshit craziness that is now common among Republicans.

I guess the question I would propose is would we still have Trump is Obama had been an inept racist caricature of a black president they (republicans) envisioned? 

[TwiceHorn 31,240]

2 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

 

From my very limited understanding of law and court procedures it seems that per the agreement between Cy Vance and Trump's legal team, they will wait 7 days from a ruling before they make a formal request for the returns. Question for you legal eagles, would that clock be reset by every new appeals filing? If the appeals courts refuse to hear the case is the 7 day clock still from yesterdays ruling or will it be from 7 days after the appeals courts rejects to hear it. Feels like we are in a situation where this will just keep getting appealed forever, I thought after the Supreme Court made a ruling it would have been over. 

Legally, what is the hard stop if not the supreme court? 

That seven days after entry of an order gives them time to prepare appeals/motions to stay the judgment in the appellate courts.  If the judgment of the appellate court denies the stay (permitting the trial court's order to remain in effect), then presumably they have another seven days to go to the Supreme Court.  The Supreme Court is the end of the line.  If either the appeals court or the Supreme Court grants the stay, the seven day delay is out of the picture.

The seven days isn't for a "formal request," most likely, but a period during which Vance won't seek remedies for non-compliance, which would presumably mean contempt of court.

Further to this, it looks like the Second Circuit is going to hold a hearing 9/1, with an order sometime thereafter, all of which is past the seven days.  That means Vance could start contempt proceedings or whatever, but the trial court may look askance at that if the Second Circuit and Supreme Court haven't had their say.

Edited August 21, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31,240]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

I’ve lost track but didn’t scotus already rule on this once?

SCOTUS did rule on it, but only on the "executive privilege" aspects of it.  The Second Circuit found a part of the district court's reasoning incorrect and thus remanded.  The Supreme Court didn't hear that part of it or decide it, but their judgment put it back to the Second Circuit (affirmed), which put it back on in trial court.

Trump vowed to raise other issues unrelated to executive privilege for quashing the subpoena, and did, and the district court poured him out.

[High Plains Drifter 10,970]

5 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Former Republicans that come out now expressing horror at what the party has become weren’t paying any attention at all from the time the first plane crashed into the WTC Reagan was president.

 

better

[tx 3 putt 76,296]

35 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

First WH funeral since JFK. 

 

I want to see the invoice for this and the payment received notice 

[TwiceHorn 31,240]

1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

Dayum:

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

SCOTUS did rule on it, but only on the "executive privilege" aspects of it.  The Second Circuit found a part of the district court's reasoning incorrect and thus remanded.  The Supreme Court didn't hear that part of it or decide it, but their judgment put it back to the Second Circuit (affirmed), which put it back on in trial court.

Trump vowed to raise other issues unrelated to executive privilege for quashing the subpoena, and did, and the district court poured him out.

Alls he’s doing is running out the clock. He hopes he wins the next election and then will just refuse to obey any court order and sue any entity that says it will comply. It won’t work but its just what he does.