For History Buffs

[msucolt45 4,031]

I love to hear others interpretations of history. I personally like to focus between 1700 and 1900, but I like to hear others opinions from different timeframes.

 

Maybe we could start our own surly page for history buffs?

 

The Gettysburg link is what prompted me to write this and the linked video was awesome

[msucolt45 4,031]

I know that over the years the Surly members have provided some awesome insight into historical subjects, times, and places that I immediately rabbit holed myself into deep diving for weeks on end!

Let’s get this going!

[msucolt45 4,031]

I’ll start. There is a cemetery close to where I live, in Center Point Texas, that has more Texas Rangers buried, than the State Cemetery in d/t Austin.

Most of them are “generational” as multiple family members, but some are there from as recent as the last couple of years.

There is over 100 plus Rangers buried there, ranging from the period prior to the “Old West” to today’s modern times.

[msucolt45 4,031]

They each have a small bronze cross with the Ranger Star in the middle.

[msucolt45 4,031]

A few of the precious examples

[Armybrat 40,758]

Nowlin - there was a family in Taylor by that name. Mrs. Brat’s high school boyfriend still owns the Colt pistol his great grandpa carried in the late 1800s. Probably related.

[msucolt45 4,031]

Army Brat might’ve served with some of these fine fellows.

[Armybrat 40,758]

Not quite, but my Dad as a boy was well acquainted with a former Union POW who was an Andersonville survivor. So I heard a few second hand stories from that interesting source.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Armybrat

[msucolt45 4,031]

The Nowlin family has multiple markers there. That’s why I mentioned that it was generational back then. Father, then son, and then son of son.

Some family names have five+ members enshrined/buried there.

[msucolt45 4,031]

Brat - you should check it out, as it is awesome, in a historical sense.

[Armybrat 40,758]

Might do that, but I’ll be in a cemetery soon enough as it is. Lol

[msucolt45 4,031]

Brat - small drive from Austin. What you got going on during the Spring?

Hit Fredericksburg and Boerne, then your less than a 30 minute drive to Center Point.

[msucolt45 4,031]

I love your mentions of firearms on the other threads, as I’m an owner of many mentioned.

[msucolt45 4,031]

I did Cowboy Action Shooting for over a decade, so I have many “period correct” firearms and apparel. So I love that timeframe and used to have the facial hair to prove it.

[RomaVicta 29,827]

Interesting. I googled Texas Rangers Center Point Texas

Your thread is off to a good start.

Quote

 

Mike Cox, the author of “Gunfights and Sites in Texas Ranger History,” believes it might have begun as a simple matter of convenience. The area has long been a favorite retirement spot. Since a number of Rangers had retired nearby, it made since they would be laid to rest there. With a fair number already interred in the cemetery, more and more Rangers from other parts of Texas started requesting to buried there as well. In fact, modern Rangers are known to request to be buried beside their brothers in arms in Center Point. Cox calls the little cemetery the “unofficial Arlington of the Texas Rangers.”

Founded in 1872, the cemetery now holds over 1,452 graves. The first Texas Ranger to take his rest in Center Point was George Moore, who died in 1886.

 

I'd like to see Comfort and Center Point stay the same. Comfort is a great place.

[gsoda3 3,238]

Not quite, but my Dad as a boy was well acquainted with a former Union POW who was an Andersonville survivor. So I heard a few second hand stories from that interesting source.

When you have the time I'd love to hear those stories.

[AUS-97HORN 11,720]

we could name the new forum

 

"ArmyBrat reminisces about his first 200 years"

[Armybrat 40,758]

12 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Not quite, but my Dad as a boy was well acquainted with a former Union POW who was an Andersonville survivor. So I heard a few second hand stories from that interesting source.

When you have the time I'd love to hear those stories.

He told Dad that his “shebang” (tent) mate had his arm shot off in battle and was treated by the Confederate doctors after his capture. As a part of the “post-op” treatment, they put some maggots in the stitched up wound to keep it clean of putrefying flesh. Early each morning in their Andersonville captivity, the fellow would get up and shake his arm stump because the feeding maggots itched a lot.

My Dad’s friend also helped out a fellow in a neighboring tent who had his eye shot out. He would urinate in the wounded guy’s eye socket regularly. Supposedly the uric acid would help prevent infections from getting started.

[Little Steven 57]

6 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

My Dad’s friend also helped out a fellow in a neighboring tent who had his eye shot out. He would urinate in the wounded guy’s eye socket regularly. Supposedly the uric acid would help prevent infections from getting started.

 

[msucolt45 4,031]

That’s the stuff I’m talking about!

[Knoxtnhorn 5,966]

I've written about this on another site.  It's kind of cool to be a history buff first, then find out cool things in your heritage.  

My great-grandfather - Otho Benjamin Phillips - came from quite the lineage.  His great-grandfather was James Clinton Neill.  Some credit him with firing the first shot of the Texas Revolution - i.e. "Come and Take It" flag in Gonzales.  He commanded The Alamo before leaving to take care of his ailing family.  The Texians didn't think Santa Ana would be in the San Antonio area until late spring.  Neill was on his way back to The Alamo with 50 men when it fell.  He was later injured at San Jacinto.

Otho's grandmother was the daughter of James Hughes Callahan who escaped the Goliad Massacre, fought in the US/Mexican War, then joined ranger companies that invaded Mexico twice.  He was part of the Somervell Expedition, sent by Sam Houston to suppress raids by Mexican bandits.  He also commanded another raid - The Callahan Expedition - in 1855.  He was shot in the back during a feud with the Blassingame family.  

 

[msucolt45 4,031]

Thank you KnoxHorn.

[TeddyBearStallion 73]

I love Medieval history particularly anything from the fall of Rome to the Reformation (400 to early 1500s).

[Texas_Rocks 346]

I wish I new more about the history, but the wife had a relative among the Alamo defenders and is a member of “The Daughters of the Republic of Texas” and “Alamo Defenders Association”

 

She’s also a member of the “Former Texas Rangers Association” as result of late relatives serving. She’s been to a few of those cross placing ceremonies in the last five years. Also a distant relative of Maney Gault...and a serial bank robber in pre WWII Texas.

 

Her uncle was a member of a rag tag group of demolition guys in the 506th PIR 101st Airborne that called themselves the “Filthy Thirteen”. They dropped in behind enemy lines at the start of D-Day to destroy some key bridges. His lifelong friend was a guy named Jake McNiece. Look that guy’s name up for some legit history.

 

Unfortunately her actuary mind is rarely interested in history. Her brain is all mathematics.

 

 

 

[davidg 4,034]

Slightly outside your time period, but here's a pic of my grandfather (with the saber) who served in the 1st Tx Cavalry National Guard on the TX border in 1916 and 1917 during the Pershing Expeditions.  He was stationed in Candalaria, North of Ruidosa and would ride upriver to meet a group that would come down out of Ft Hancock.

 

I recently discovered and purchased this book and have been in contact with the author and with archivist at the Museum of the Big Bend at Sul Ross.  I have about 40 pictures of his time there that we hope to get included in the archive.

[BillyGoatHill 4,311]

44 minutes ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Her uncle was a member of a rag tag group of demolition guys in the 506th PIR 101st Airborne that called themselves the “Filthy Thirteen”. They dropped in behind enemy lines at the start of D-Day to destroy some key bridges. His lifelong friend was a guy named Jake McNiece. Look that guy’s name up for some legit history.

Yep. Demolition squad. If you have seen (who hasn't?) the pics of the guys painting war paint and cutting their hair into mohawks before jumping in on D Day, then you are a little bit familar with them as it was them in the pictures.

Like T_R wrote, Jake McNiece was one of the leaders and a real bad ass during the war. Some of these guys later "volunteered" to become Pathfinders and were instrumental in breaking the sige of Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge due to them jumping in and 30 minutes later after setting up their Eureka beacons, guided in follow up airdrops full of ammunition, food, and maybe most importantly, badly needed medical supplies. 

Another side note about the "Filthy 13" is that the movie, "The Dirty Dozen" was loosely based on their exploits accomplished in the war.

Edited January 7, 2020 by BillyGoatHill

[TwiceHorn 31,345]

28 minutes ago, davidg said:

Slightly outside your time period, but here's a pic of my grandfather (with the saber) who served in the 1st Tx Cavalry National Guard on the TX border in 1916 and 1917 during the Pershing Expeditions.  He was stationed in Candalaria, North of Ruidosa and would ride upriver to meet a group that would come down out of Ft Hancock.

 

I recently discovered and purchased this book and have been in contact with the author and with archivist at the Museum of the Big Bend at Sul Ross.  I have about 40 pictures of his time there that we hope to get included in the archive.

With all due respect to your grandfather, I find the "old army" reference and color scheme of that book to be offensive.

(slightly tongue in cheek, but was unaware "old army" was a term outside of aggotness).

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,419]

On 1/5/2020 at 1:32 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

I've written about this on another site.  It's kind of cool to be a history buff first, then find out cool things in your heritage.  

My great-grandfather - Otho Benjamin Phillips - came from quite the lineage.  His great-grandfather was James Clinton Neill.  Some credit him with firing the first shot of the Texas Revolution - i.e. "Come and Take It" flag in Gonzales.  He commanded The Alamo before leaving to take care of his ailing family.  The Texians didn't think Santa Ana would be in the San Antonio area until late spring.  Neill was on his way back to The Alamo with 50 men when it fell.  He was later injured at San Jacinto.

Otho's grandmother was the daughter of James Hughes Callahan who escaped the Goliad Massacre, fought in the US/Mexican War, then joined ranger companies that invaded Mexico twice.  He was part of the Somervell Expedition, sent by Sam Houston to suppress raids by Mexican bandits.  He also commanded another raid - The Callahan Expedition - in 1855.  He was shot in the back during a feud with the Blassingame family.  

 

One of the enduring unbelievable facts about the Texas annexation involves John Tyler who started the annexation as President in 1843-45 but wasn't President when the annexation was finalized in late 1845.  Anyway, Tyler still has 2 living grandsons as of a few months ago.   All due to Tyler and later his son having kids extremely late in life.

[Texas_Rocks 346]

Yep. Demolition squad. If you have seen (who hasn't?) the pics of the guys painting war paint and cutting their hair into mohawks before jumping in on D Day, then you are a little bit familar with them as it was them in the pictures.
Like T_R wrote, Jake McNiece was one of the leaders and a real bad ass during the war. Some of these guys later "volunteered" to become Pathfinders and were instrumental in breaking the sige of Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge due to them jumping in and 30 minutes later after setting up their Eureka beacons, guided in follow up airdrops full of ammunition, food, and maybe most importantly, badly needed medical supplies. 
Another side note about the "Filthy 13" is that the movie, "The Dirty Dozen" was loosely based on their exploits accomplished in the war.

Met Jake on three different occasions. He was truly one awesome guy. They held their reunions at the wife’s uncle’s ranch in Spicewood as long as they could. I occasionally steel one of his favorite sayings going back as far as before the war.

“Of course we were drunker than five hundred dollars.”

[Armybrat 40,758]

5 hours ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

I love Medieval history particularly anything from the fall of Rome to the Reformation (400 to early 1500s).

You might enjoy the historical novel series by Edward Rutherfurd. Generational novels that follow the history & politics of the subjects -  London, Paris, Sarum, The Forest, The Princes of Ireland,......

[gsoda3 3,238]

18 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

You might enjoy the historical novel series by Edward Rutherfurd. Generational novels that follow the history & politics of the subjects -  London, Paris, Sarum, The Forest, The Princes of Ireland,......

i'm gonna have to check those out.  i love that era. 

 

@teddybearstallion if you haven't read it yet, pillars of the earth is an exceptional read

[Armybrat 40,758]

Rutherfurd usually starts out following several family lines in prehistoric  times, working up through the Roman era, then into the “dark ages”, Medieval period,  past the Renaissance, & beyond.  The whole gamut.

[Parliament 14,150]

Slightly outside your time period, but here's a pic of my grandfather (with the saber) who served in the 1st Tx Cavalry National Guard on the TX border in 1916 and 1917 during the Pershing Expeditions.  He was stationed in Candalaria, North of Ruidosa and would ride upriver to meet a group that would come down out of Ft Hancock.


 
I recently discovered and purchased this book and have been in contact with the author and with archivist at the Museum of the Big Bend at Sul Ross.  I have about 40 pictures of his time there that we hope to get included in the archive.

That's Army Brat's grandson, fwiw.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,810]

4 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

 

Met Jake on three different occasions. He was truly one awesome guy. They held their reunions at the wife’s uncle’s ranch in Spicewood as long as they could. I occasionally steel one of his favorite sayings going back as far as before the war.

“Of course we were drunker than five hundred dollars.”

 

I met him and had him sign one of his books at a Veterans Day deal at the Dripping Springs library a few years back. Cool old guy.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,419]

This guy doesn't have too many videos but he narrates different WW2 Pacific battles from one of the combatant's perspective including the fog of war. For the Battle of Midway, you get to see initially from the Japanese perspective and then a third video has the American view. All 3 Midway videos total 90 minutes.

Midway

 

 

 

 

 

[Born Burnt 6,171]

[Armybrat 40,758]

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,419]

Pearl Harbor Day doesn't quite get the same public attention that I remember when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s. Obviously back then WW2 and especially Pearl Harbor vets were still relatively young. I assume that only a handful of survivors are still alive. 

As an event becomes fully relegated to history books, it becomes the same as other older history events. WW1 was practically the forgotten war when I was a kid. WW2 is rapidly approaching the same status. 

[TwiceHorn 31,345]

15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pearl Harbor Day doesn't quite get the same public attention that I remember when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s. Obviously back then WW2 and especially Pearl Harbor vets were still relatively young. I assume that only a handful of survivors are still alive. 

As an event becomes fully relegated to history books, it becomes the same as other older history events. WW1 was practically the forgotten war when I was a kid. WW2 is rapidly approaching the same status. 

I suppose passage of time accounts for much of it.  WWI I suppose really wasn't that significant to American history, as opposed to world history with a significant, but sort of indirect, impact on the US.

Another thing is that since WWII, we have engaged in a series of much more morally ambiguous wars, so to today's youth and young, not only is it ancient history, but it's probably hard for them to conceive of as anything other than a corrupt thing on behalf of oil or other business interests or misguided anti-communist efforts.

[Parliament 14,150]

I have a friend who was a history major in college. He works in sales now, but is still a huge history buff. He says WW1 had a more significant impact on World history than WW2.

Leading into WW1, Europe was only global power. All of the wealth, trade, military, colonization scientific invention, EVERYTHING was eurocentric. Then the Great War happened and they poured all of their wealth, and an entire generation on men into it. Communism got its footing in Russia. Europe was doomed to never recover.

WW2 was nothing more than Europe's last gasp at hegemony. But by then, History has already passed them by. Interesting take.

[Captainant 27,506]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

I have a friend who was a history major in college. He works in sales now, but is still a huge history buff. He says WW1 had a more significant impact on World history than WW2.

Leading into WW1, Europe was only global power. All of the wealth, trade, military, colonization scientific invention, EVERYTHING was eurocentric. Then the Great War happened and they poured all of their wealth, and an entire generation on men into it. Communism got its footing in Russia. Europe was doomed to never recover.

WW2 was nothing more than Europe's last gasp at hegemony. But by then, History has already passed them by. Interesting take.

Arguably, WWII was nothing but the aftershock of WWI. The Marshal Plan was our method to break that cycle and not breed new enemies in our conquered foe. I'd say that WWI pointed us in the direction of the end of European hegemony but WWII is what pushed it over the edge.

Side note if any of yall are naval history buffs - there's a youtube channel that just wrapped up their 3-part series on the salvage efforts to raise and restore the Pacific Fleet, fascinating watch chock full of primary sourcing

 

[956 Worldwide 34,511]

Arguably, WWII was nothing but the aftershock of WWI. The Marshal Plan was our method to break that cycle and not breed new enemies in our conquered foe. I'd say that WWI pointed us in the direction of the end of European hegemony but WWII is what pushed it over the edge.
Side note if any of yall are naval history buffs - there's a youtube channel that just wrapped up their 3-part series on the salvage efforts to raise and restore the Pacific Fleet, fascinating watch chock full of primary sourcing
 

I’d bet that future generations will treat World War I and II (along with side shows like the Soviet-Polish and Spanish Civil War) as one war, much like we do with the Thirty Years War or Hundred Years War.

I would also say that in some respects World War I and the thinking that got us there is at least as important as World War II to the United States. Our entire behavior on the global stage for the past 100 years has basically been slightly differing interpretations of Wilsonian Interventionism, at least until the current president (no CR).


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[Nice Guy Eddie 13,419]

25 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’d bet that future generations will treat World War I and II (along with side shows like the Soviet-Polish and Spanish Civil War) as one war, much like we do with the Thirty Years War or Hundred Years War.

I would also say that in some respects World War I and the thinking that got us there is at least as important as World War II to the United States. Our entire behavior on the global stage for the past 100 years has basically been slightly differing interpretations of Wilsonian Interventionism, at least until the current president (no CR).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At the macro level, history has to find events to group together and blur out less important details. As we move forward, textbooks have to remove events for every new historical events need to be expanded or added.  Going to high school in the 80s, we barely would get to Vietnam and Watergate in the textbooks. 9/11 and the War on Terror have been bumping other topics out now.

[Armybrat 40,758]

My parochial school textbook cut off prior to WW2.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,419]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

My parochial school textbook cut off prior to WW2.

Amazing your textbook could forecast the future.

[atomheartbevo 89,490]

This thread has been dead for a year, and we don't need another once since this got into Pearl Harbor stuff.

80th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor coming up.  My son saw some of the special magazines (Time/Life, National Geographic) focusing on the anniversary and became interested in Pearl Harbor after looking through them.  Of the mainstream services, Netflix had a few of those "WWII in color" types of series, but you have to be very careful - they earn their TV-14/TV-M ratings at times.  Also, lot of scholars and the like talking over them.

So I turned to Ye Old YouTube, and found the perfect video for explaining to younger kids how the attack played out.

Lots of diagrams, maps, photos overlaid on said diagrams/maps to show the actual attack (there are some amazing photos taken during the attack), and explanations of why certain ships were attacked while others weren't.  Oklahoma and West Virginia were turbo-fucked - they were in the prime spot for the torpedo aircraft as they were at the end of the best run those aircraft had at launching their torpedos.

The video even explains in the first minute or so why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and invaded the Philippines.  A LOT of YouTube videos either skip why they attacked us and just focus on the attack, or spend way too much time overanalyzing the geopolitical situation with all of the various European powers and how they were tied up in Europe and North Africa as well as where Japan could actually obtain oil from.

Kids that age A) Want to know why they attacked us, and B) Want it explained like they are kids.  They don't need to understand why or how the Dutch/Brits/French/etc. were bogged down elsewhere, they just need to know that the US owned the Philippines and the Philippines created a bottleneck for Japanese oil shipments.  That's all they need to know.

That video basically explained every aircraft's path/torpedo run, etc. - the kinds of things that a lot of kids would be curious about if they knew nothing else.  Didn't get into 10 minutes of exposition with a repeat of the various film footage over and over.

Edited November 8, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,784]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

80th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor coming up.

Visited the Arizona Memorial during 91 and I have a 50th anniversary shirt.  Thank for making me feel old(er)

[atomheartbevo 89,490]

2 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Visited the Arizona Memorial during 91 and I have a 50th anniversary shirt.  Thank for making me feel old(er)

When I was a kid, we had Vietnam vets and a couple of WWII vets (and plenty of their wives) as teachers.  The Vietnam vets seemed young, while the WWII vets seemed old and numerous (there were 16 million that served after all)

Now the Vietnam vets are older than the WWII vets I knew as a kid, and there's only a few hundred thousand of those WWII vets still alive.

To use a music meme.

 

[Jkwellborn 6,665]

My 7 year old son is obsessed with WW2 and to a lesser extent WW1. He’s constantly watching videos on his iPad discussing it.

I used to have a WW2 encyclopedia set that was pretty badass. It had pictures and illustrations of pretty much every weapon and uniform and a lot of battlegrounds.

I need to try to find another set again. My mom got rid of the one I had after I left home.

[TexasGrunt 72]

Speaking of age. I was in Desert Storm. I am now 55..... I do remember that my platoon sergeant's and drill sergeant's were in in Vietnam.