Mike Leach to the SEC (Mississippi St)

[LTtxfan 49906]

https://247sports.com/Player/Jalen-Mayden-56662/

[Bill Lumbergh 7337]

How about that great offense?  Looks like it took all of a week for SEC defenses to figure out his gimmick ass game plan.

I just don't get this line of thinking with Leach. He has a system and it works, but he needs the right players for it and those players need reps in it. It's pretty binary in being highly effective or not very effective.

His first three years at wa state he went 3-9, 6-7, 3-9. He followed that by going 9-4, 8-5, 9-4, 11-2.

Now, wazzu was a disaster when he took over, so I don't think he'll need as long to get going at ms state, but anyone thinking he'd take that set of players recruited for a different system and just make it work was delusional.

His system may or may not work there, but it's probably a bit early to say he's been figured out and will continue to have poor offensive showings now that he's in the sec. He's been there before and scored plenty.

[Jkwellborn 7006]

Yeah, he does best with qbs that have a bunch of reps in the system. No one should be surprised that they’ve been bad with no reps. They’ll be better by the end of the year most likely.

[Don Johnson 4802]

1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I just don't get this line of thinking with Leach. He has a system and it works, but he needs the right players for it and those players need reps in it. It's pretty binary in being highly effective or not very effective.

His first three years at wa state he went 3-9, 6-7, 3-9. He followed that by going 9-4, 8-5, 9-4, 11-2.

Now, wazzu was a disaster when he took over, so I don't think he'll need as long to get going at ms state, but anyone thinking he'd take that set of players recruited for a different system and just make it work was delusional.

His system may or may not work there, but it's probably a bit early to say he's been figured out and will continue to have poor offensive showings now that he's in the sec. He's been there before and scored plenty.

This feels different.  Wazzoo won 2, 1 , 2, and 4 in the four years before Leach took over.  Leach's first three seasons were on par with that. Same at Texas Tech.  They won 6 or 7 every year before Leach and that's what Leach did his first few there.

People may think MSU is a shitty program, but they've been to 10 straight bowl games heading into this season.  And Leach has made them arguably the worst team in the conference in short order, has lost a good bit of the team and a good bit of the fanbase.  

Edited October 27, 2020 by Don Johnson

[ButtFumble 5246]

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Yeah, he does best with qbs that have a bunch of reps in the system. No one should be surprised that they’ve been bad with no reps. They’ll be better by the end of the year most likely.

this is really only partially true if at all true and probably only the 2008 GH season shows it MIGHT be true while a number of other seasons show this theory as questionable at best

2000-2002 mike had ye old lazy recruiter the Kliff Miester as QB and was 7-6, 7-5, 9-5.....so what you are saying was true there the experienced QB probably made a difference......but they also played 14 games to get those 9 wins back when a 12 game schedule was a rarity and bowl games were somewhat harder to come by

2003 was BJ Simmons his only season as a starter and with a total of 80 passes under his belt as a senior in 17 games going 56-80 on those passing attempts so hardly a seasoned back up coming in as a starter and Tech went 8-5

2004 was Sonny Cumbie and Tech was 8-4

2005 was Cory Rodgers (sometimes known as Cody Hodges) and he was 9-3

2006-2008 was Graham Cracker and they were 8-5, 9-4, and 11-2

2009 was back foot throwing Taylor Potts and they were 9-4

so really when you look through that list I would say that BJ and Sonny both starting one season were about as good as Kliff even in Kliff's third season because BJ had one less win, but the same number of losses and 1 less game to play and Sonny had one less win and one less loss and 2 fewer games to play

the 2004 and 2005 teams were also ranked to end the year while the 2002 team was not

2003 was 5-3 in The Big 12 and 2004 was 5-3 in The Big 12 and 2005 was 6-2 in The Big 12

so based on having fewer games to get wins, having the same or better record in The Big 12 and being ranked vs not ranked I would out the 2004 and 2005 seasons above the 2002 season and both of those seasons were with 1 year QBs with little to no experience prior to being named the starter.....and really with 2 more games to get one additional win and a third year QB again I think that does not show much for having an experienced QB making a major difference

 

now you do have the GH era his first season 2006 was pretty standard mike 8-5 and also unranked

2007 9-4 and ranked, but still not ranked as high as the 2004 and 2005 seasons and still playing one additional game that season and only 4-4 in The Big 12 so again I think the "better season" goes to 2004 and 2005

then you get to "da season doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 2008 11-2....an experienced QB definitely paid off here, but that is basically one season out of 10 where you can definitively make that argument

in 2009 with back foot throwing Taylor Potts (why was he not coached to not throw that way in all those years waiting to start?) Tech was 9-4 and finished the season ranked

so three out of the four best seasons for mile at Texas Tech were with QBs that had no experience of any significance coming in as a starter and clearly the same is true at WSU at least as far as experience with mike's system and really 2 out of the best 3 was an inexperienced QB and then the 4th best season again with an inexperienced Taylor Potts (better Big 12 record (5-3) than second year GH in 2007 (4-4) and ranked 23/21 in 2009 vs 23/22 in 2007)

so really only the 2008 GH season is a stand out where Tech was clearly better with an experienced QB vs one that had almost no experience

the others 2004, 2005, 2009 Tech with an inexperienced QB had clearly better seasons than all but possibly 2007 2nd year GH and I think 2004 and 2005 were clearly better and 2009 if not slightly better still shows that experience at the QB was not a major factor

 

and I am not going to go through the WSU seasons because I am much less familiar with their QBs, but I think it is safe to say the best season mike had at WSU was 2018 with Gardner Minshew and his highest ranked team ever as a coach.....and  Gardner Minshew was a transfer with no experience in the system at all so again in his 8 seasons at WSU the pinnacle of his time there and probably of his career was with a 1 year transfer QB that had a lot of God Given talent and that knew what was expected in the air raid and that is "don't be a hero just get some yards each play".....and we can be sure that mike coached very little of that into him because we know that mike could not even get Taylor Potts to stop throwing off of his back foot before the 2009 season

 

that is one of the easiest things to be critical of mike for the fact that Tech (or WSU) would be up by 35 points on Western Juggalo State and Technical Center with 9 minutes left in the 4th and here would come the starting QB jogging out on the field to get more "air raid points" which consist of running up meaningless offensive stats on spare teams while you have a Jr. or Soph. QB on the bench that will be your started next year (or the replacement if your starter goes down) getting ZERO reps and ZERO experience in pretty much any game

or of course at WSU you are getting beat by D1-AA teams two years in a row to open the season (but mike caught a FISH or SHOT A BEAR in the off season!!!!!)...and in 2015 you had a QB that had played in 5 games prior to that and in 2016 he was back as a second year starter.....so again experience really did not make a difference there either

in 2015 they were 9-4 with a first year as a starter Falk, 2016 8-5, and 2017 9-4 so again a 3rd year player (that was hurt a lot) still only managed to do as well as he did his first year as a starter under mike

 

we will probably never really know the truth about if the mike system could do better with an experienced QB running it because mike is very adverse to having an experienced QB running the system and even more adverse to getting back ups any meaningful playing time to gain experience because it eats into what the cult of mike fans jack off to the most and that is meaningless yards passing and running up the score on spare teams and other stats that can be tossed out to deflect from rankings and the win column and other things like winning the division, the conference, or major bowl games....SLING IT AROUND!!!!!

 

that shit might fly at Texas Tech (sadly) or at WSU (not so much now that mike left them), but that stupid shit will not fly at Mississippi State and trying to get shit like that in the SEC SEC SEC will probably go badly for your starting QB over time as he gets his ass knocked off by an almost as talented second string player that is not in the mood to eat shit as they get experience in a game their team might be about to lose or worse yet a starter still in the game that is pissed off about losing to a clown and a circus geek offense

Edited October 27, 2020 by ButtFumble

[Bill Lumbergh 7337]

This feels different.  Wazzoo won 2, 1 , 2, and 4 in the four years before Leach took over.  Leach's first three seasons were on par with that. Same at Texas Tech.  They won 6 or 7 every year before Leach and that's what Leach did his first few there.
People may think MSU is a shitty program, but they've been to 10 straight bowl games heading into this season.  And Leach has made them arguably the worst team in the conference in short order, has lost a good bit of the team and a good bit of the fanbase.  

It doesn't change the fact that his system is really specific and they're not repped to efficiency on it.

They either have the patience for the team to get there or they don't.

This is closer to a coach coming in who runs the triple option, and a team who has been running a different scheme for years looking really shaky executing it at first. The only way it gets better is reps, specifically the qb and wr for leach.

If they give him time, I think he'll put up points. If they were short sighted about the investment required to be productive, maybe he never gets there.

[ButtFumble 5246]

10 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

1. Their OL can’t even come close to protecting the QB in the last couple of games I’ve watched.  It’s probably going to require a longer build that involves recruiting and developing a different type of OL, and not necessarily just the QB and WRs getting another offseason to learn and rep the system. 

2. I don’t expect them to give him much time.  SEC schools don’t give much time in general, but especially not to an outsider who goes against the grain of what they’re used to (and Leach does that on and off the field).  If he doesn’t win next year, he will get the Chad Morris treatment.

it will probably depend a little bit on what The Lane Train is doing as well

the whole firing of Moorhead was going to be centered around The Egg bowl but one dumb fuck taking a piss in the end zone like a dog saved the game for MSU and the coaches job.....until some other dumb fuck dotted the QB's eye in practice before the bowl game

plus there is the fact that Arkansas still looks horrible, but a lot less horrible than before with a win over MSU and Ole' Miss and almost beating Auburn.....then the fact that aggy chad is helping Auburn self destruct, LSU has dropped way off, and aggy is still aggy

so that leaves Alabama as the SEC SEC SEC west team that is not possibly heading for a major meltdown and if The Lane Train can take advantage of that (we have no idea yet of course) there is no way that MSU is going to sit there and accept "mike needs mikes guys" (especially when mikes guys are generally 3* recruits and not SEC SEC SEC expected standards)

now even if The Lane Train fails or looks like shit that is still all the more reason for MSU fans to jump around and say they should be moving up not losing to Arkansas and Kentucky and even aggy

I expect The Lane Train to beat Vandy, SC and aggy to have a three game winning streak and to be 4-4 before MSU while I expect mike to get his ass raped by Alabama, probably beat Vandy (though you never know a mike meltdown can come at any time), get thumped by Auburn, and demolished by Georgia to come into The Egg Bowl 2-6

a loss for either coach turns the pot up to boil an egg and a win by Ole' Miss followed by a win over LSU makes Lane look ok with 6-4.....a win my mike in The Egg Bowl and a win over Missouri is 4-6 and still sucks, but takes the pot off the fire until next year (when it probably goes right back on early)

5-5 for Lane probably has heat and 3-7 for mike leaves the pot on the fire too.....a very possible 2-8 for mike makes shit really hot for him

 

[Schulz2.0 29241]

Kylin Hill opting out.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10761]

6 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Kylin Hill opting out.

 

[ButtFumble 5246]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mike-leach-confirms-three-mississippi-state-players-leave-team-believes-rb-kylin-hill-also-among-departures/

7 players gone in 2 weeks not including the RB

you know what would cure all of this.....an update to the cookbook with some more Southern recipes, bringing up another lawsuit against Texas Tech, and a Ted Talk on cruising Southern yellow pine plantations

[MonkeyDoughnut 10761]

I think Leach is handling things as they need to be done in this new age of transfers. If there is a locker room issue you set the expectations and direction and anyone wants out you help them pack their things as quickly as they can. How many years did Texas waste trying to get some of the locker room cancers out.

[Bill Lumbergh 7337]

Exactly. Some players buy into a new coach/system and some do not. The faster you figure out who is who, the better.

No, this won't help results this year, but a guy like Leach is never going to win a lot year 1. Might as well focus on the build.

None of this means he'll be successful there. He very well may not be. It's just silly to project any real meaning on the first few games and normal player attrition early in any coaches tenure, but especially one as unique as Leach.

[4th&Five 41902]

Really taking the SEC by storm. 

[mdmost 43848]

Revolutionizing the SEC with amazing shutouts and low scoring affairs!

[Dewey 3325]

The air raid is a simple offense,  designed to get the most out of lesser talent. You only put a zero on the board when the players hate the coach. 

[C-Man 27684]

And some people want Leach to corch Texas

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Dewey said:

The air raid is a simple offense, 

LOlz.  It has 5-6 base plays with eleventy million permutations.

Still makes the year Kliff had with Davis Webb(RS-freshman) and Baker( true Freshman)  all the more crazy.  It takes a shit-ton of reps to get it down.

Leach is going to install his offense and improve Mississippi State's results, if things follow past trends.  I guess it just depends how long the Bulldog faithful can wait.  Granted, sans the LSU game, this season has been spectacularly crappy.

Leach does have 2 solid QBs already committed in the upcoming recruiting class.  "twill be interesting to see if he gets time to do his thing or gets summarily dismissed in the meantime.

Edited November 1, 2020 by slorch

[Dewey 3325]

If the dbs press, go deep, if they layoff, go short. Big splits on the line, once the defense is moving backwards, hand it off. It certainly can get numerous once the qb and rest have been in it for a while, but at its core it can be simple and successful. 

[immamac 44198]

Yeah nothing to see here. Leach doesn't have the problem other coaches do where he coddles players. If you don't wanna play there fuck you leave 

[Texasrocks 2246]

This was a particularly bad year for Leach to start with a new team. With no spring practice and modified fall camps, I suspect teams with new coaches will do worse in general this year relative to teams with established systems. As others have mentioned, Leach's system requires a ton of reps (not to be confused with experience - he does just fine with seniors who haven't started in the past). I think Leach will be fine if he can make it to season 3. Tech and WSU showed his ceiling - above average for the school and good enough to spoil the occasional Bama/Georgia/Florida season.

[ButtFumble 5246]

11 hours ago, Texasrocks said:

This was a particularly bad year for Leach to start with a new team. With no spring practice and modified fall camps, I suspect teams with new coaches will do worse in general this year relative to teams with established systems. As others have mentioned, Leach's system requires a ton of reps (not to be confused with experience - he does just fine with seniors who haven't started in the past). I think Leach will be fine if he can make it to season 3. Tech and WSU showed his ceiling - above average for the school and good enough to spoil the occasional Bama/Georgia/Florida season.

also a bad time because the SEC SEC SEC is playing 10 SEC SEC SEC games

there is no chance for mike to do something like beg out of a HOME GAME against a team like BYU so he can get some D1-AA spare in to run up 700 yards and 56 points on (while giving up 42 points and being tied late in the 3rd)....much less do something stupid like swing his sword to a loss against a not that good UH team 

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

One of leach’s biggest weakness is he never evolved the offense like others under him have done. 

[Bigbend1812 13021]

11 hours ago, immamac said:

Yeah nothing to see here. Leach doesn't have the problem other coaches do where he coddles players. If you don't wanna play there fuck you leave 

[JohnLocke 115]

Leach caused chaos at Washington State for a while. It's his MO.  But they were such a dumpster fire, there were willing to wait it out.  He may not have that luxury at MSU, where expectations are so much higher.  I really hate for them to be melting down like this right before we play them.  😀

I will say that I hope he gets run off.  The guy is crazy, but give him time, and he is dangerous.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

2 hours ago, JohnLocke said:

Leach caused chaos at Washington State for a while. It's his MO.  But they were such a dumpster fire, there were willing to wait it out.  He may not have that luxury at MSU, where expectations are so much higher.  I really hate for them to be melting down like this right before we play them.  😀

I will say that I hope he gets run off.  The guy is crazy, but give him time, and he is dangerous.

Not in his big season-ending rivalry game he's not. I predict the term "Lane Train" will take on an added meaning in the next few years. 

[Jkwellborn 7006]

also a bad time because the SEC SEC SEC is playing 10 SEC SEC SEC games
there is no chance for mike to do something like beg out of a HOME GAME against a team like BYU so he can get some D1-AA spare in to run up 700 yards and 56 points on (while giving up 42 points and being tied late in the 3rd)....much less do something stupid like swing his sword to a loss against a not that good UH team 

We get it. He fucked your wife, or sister, or grandmother, or daughter. Or maybe he “locked” you or your son in a shed for being a pussy. You hate the guy.

[ButtFumble 5246]

1 hour ago, Jkwellborn said:

We get it. He fucked your wife, or sister, or grandmother, or daughter. Or maybe he “locked” you or your son in a shed for being a pussy. You hate the guy.

we also get it you love sucking the cock of a slightly above average coach with a shit load of flaws that he never bothers to correct and a lot of wins against really shitty teams to pad his resume...a resume that has nothing of significance on it either in terms of meaningful hardware

[XYZ 2154]

10 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

we also get it you love sucking the cock of a slightly above average coach with a shit load of flaws that he never bothers to correct and a lot of wins against really shitty teams to pad his resume...a resume that has nothing of significance on it either in terms of meaningful hardware

But he’s funny.

[ButtFumble 5246]

16 minutes ago, XYZ said:

But he’s funny.

as long as he is not coaching a team that you give a shit about

[XYZ 2154]

27 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

as long as he is not coaching a team that you give a shit about

Exactly. The guy is a troll. He never gave a shit about winning. He cares about telling funny stories. And collecting quirky pirate shit. And retrieving baseball caps out of the water at Pearl Harbor. Shit like that.

[Augustus 3061]

Passing any kind of judgment for the next couple of years is asinine, and especially absurd for this season.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

Passing any kind of judgment for the next couple of years is asinine, and especially absurd for this season.

Judging by past results, I predict he'll never win even a division championship at MSU and will have a losing record in the Egg Bowl. He may come up with a few big upset wins, (probably almost never in the Egg Bowl,) but he'll always lose some games he has no business losing. That's what he does. Have you not been paying attention? Bookmark this post and feel free to throw it back in my face if I ever turn out to be wrong. 

[Wally Pryor 5388]

Yay, Leach. He'll always win the pressers with cute shtick and stories and he'll occasionally upset another team. But, yes, more times than not he'll lose games he shouldn't and get blown out over and over.  And then he'll throw someone / anyone else under the bus instead of the unbridled clown who should be taking the blame: himself. 

It's a broken record.   Leach's act grew tiresome a long time ago.  The saps at MSU apparently didn't get the message. 

 

[BurntOrange&White 41646]

11 hours ago, Augustus said:

Passing any kind of judgment for the next couple of years is asinine, and especially absurd for this season.

Why he has never won a conference in his 19 years and has only had 2 seasons where he didn’t lose 3 or more games. 

[RDCanecutter 26852]

10 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

The saps at MSU apparently didn't get the message. 

 

Croom would have put some points up.

[Don Johnson 4802]

44 points by the offense in the opener and 21 in the 4 games since.  If they lose to Vandy this week, this thing will go off the rails.  

[mdmost 43848]

This will help his offense out.

 

[RDCanecutter 26852]

15 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

44 points by the offense in the opener and 21 in the 4 games since.  If they lose to Vandy this week, this thing will go off the rails.  

I expect clever Vandy word-play involving pirates and commodores.

[mr.goodkat 469]

37 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Why he has never won a conference in his 19 years and has only had 2 seasons where he didn’t lose 3 or more games. 

the only reason would be recruiting . he should be able to get better talent to starkville then he was able to attract to lubbock or pullman ? i mean sec sec sec  right ?

[Augustus 3061]

10 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Judging by past results, I predict he'll never win even a division championship at MSU and will have a losing record in the Egg Bowl. He may come up with a few big upset wins, (probably almost never in the Egg Bowl,) but he'll always lose some games he has no business losing. That's what he does. Have you not been paying attention? Bookmark this post and feel free to throw it back in my face if I ever turn out to be wrong. 

One can agree with all of that, and it's still absurd to make any judgement about how successful he'll be at MSU based on this season or next.