So uh..Austin Subway*, Light Rail Expansions and $3.2 - $10.2 Billion

[Pasken 1309]

16 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, I know our dirt is more valuable than say that stretch along the Canadian border, but that's fucking insane you can get that much rail (insert South Austin Mom Joke here) for $25B and we're struggling to cobble together a few miles for $10b?  

The Initial Investment includes 27 miles of rail service and 31 stations. 

[Guest Lobo]

"Initial"???  So on a per mile basis we're about 37x the cost of the Amtrak proposal.  Seems about right.   

You got me all wrong.  I'm for the project.  It's just my job with the City of Austin to square the financing component.  They never actually listen to me.  I just hear staff presentations, meet with the institutional investors, and hang back.  I can't help but question the bizarre way they are projecting the monetary part of this.  But hey, who gives a shit?  It's only real money that'll fuck over tens of thousands of Austinites for decades.  It's amazing though that you don't realize how many advocates you actually have that are just concerned with weird liberal shit like math.  

[TexasBeta 1259]

I wouldn't take that necessarily 100% as an accident or bad planning. The people that run this City intentionally try to make driving a car difficult in order to push their agenda.

This is 100% correct. Take a drive down Shoal Creek and tell me they want cars on the road. Between the Lance Armstrong wanna be crowd and the delusional rail crowd, where are you people from? You should own property to be able to vote on tax increases. I voted no. Would vote a million times no if I could. Wtf does austin need a tunnel let alone some rail boondoggle. Feel like I’m living in the Simpson’s monorail episode full time.

[Pasken 1309]

20 minutes ago, TexasBeta said:

This is 100% correct. Take a drive down Shoal Creek and tell me they want cars on the road. Between the Lance Armstrong wanna be crowd and the delusional rail crowd, where are you people from? You should own property to be able to vote on tax increases. I voted no. Would vote a million times no if I could. Wtf does austin need a tunnel let alone some rail boondoggle. Feel like I’m living in the Simpson’s monorail episode full time.

The main reason for the tunnel is because it allows for the light rail to be extended in the future. Downtown Austin has smaller than average city blocks and doubling the trains would block 2 intersections. The tunnel allows the system to be extended at a future date. The point is you don't want to spend all this money and then have your capacity capped 10-15 years after it opens.

 

The tunnel also improves performance by decreasing waits near lights and allowing the train to travel faster. You also don't cannibalize what is a major bus corridor so you aren't hurting the routes that go to the places the train doesn't. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Pasken

[Somnio 751]

The Amtrak map shown is not all brand  new service in areas with no Amtrak trains currently.  As a matter of fact, from looking at the map most of it is existing service.  I doubt the plan is any new tracks in new right of way.

They use freight lines owned by Union Pacific and others for their tracks.  If anything this plan may pay for double tracking in certain busy spots to prevent having to pull over and allow freight traffic to pass which has ROW.

It probably includes newer, higher speed trains as well.  I imagine there will be more service similar to the Acela in the NE US  on more lines across the US such as DFW- AUS-SAN which currently has shitty service. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela

Edited October 21, 2020 by Somnio

[Godzillatron 292]

Our plan is 7 billion. Light rail is a lot more expensive as our tunnels but yea I see your point the Amtrak estimate seems low.

There is 0 probability that Project Connect get built for the current $7B estimate.

[Orange&White 5506]

2 hours ago, Godzillatron said:

There is 0 probability that Project Connect get built for the current $7B estimate.

CapMetro and the city lie about this EVERY. FUCKING. TIME. yet some fucktards like the one on this thread preach it as gospel despite every piece of evidence imaginable prove them wrong. It’s because they actually know and don’t care that it will cost triple but they know they’ll never get voter approval if they tell the actual amount. So they lie.

[Fico 1726]

9 hours ago, TexasBeta said:

This is 100% correct. Take a drive down Shoal Creek and tell me they want cars on the road. Between the Lance Armstrong wanna be crowd and the delusional rail crowd, where are you people from? You should own property to be able to vote on tax increases. I voted no. Would vote a million times no if I could. Wtf does austin need a tunnel let alone some rail boondoggle. Feel like I’m living in the Simpson’s monorail episode full time.

You do realize everyone who pays rent is paying property tax, right?

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Fico said:

You do realize everyone who pays rent is paying property tax, right?

You'd be surprised how many city council members don't realize that.  I've asked a dozen times for bond proposals to include...alongside that "$xx.xx per $250,000 home" to have "$xx.xx per $1,000 rental"...so renters would have an idea what it does to their rent per month.  Every time Council and Adler have shut me down because they feel it's misleading.  Yeah...'cause all those $250k homes around Austin are such a great benchmark.  The fucking rathole I lived in in college on East 29th Street is worth a half million dollars now, Steve.

Our city only does three things really well:  Obfuscation.  Obfuscation.  And something else probably.  

[Pasken 1309]

11 hours ago, Orange&White said:

CapMetro and the city lie about this EVERY. FUCKING. TIME. yet some fucktards like the one on this thread preach it as gospel despite every piece of evidence imaginable prove them wrong. It’s because they actually know and don’t care that it will cost triple but they know they’ll never get voter approval if they tell the actual amount. So they lie.

Yet their two major capital projects in the last few years both finished ahead of schedule and under budget. 

[Biff Tannen 45208]

1 hour ago, Pasken said:

Yet their two major capital projects in the last few years both finished ahead of schedule and under budget. 

Mopac was CH2M right?  Or some such private boondoggle.

[Pasken 1309]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Mopac was CH2M right?  Or some such private boondoggle.

I don't remember the contractor but it was overseen by CTRMA. That was a terrible project but I will say that they learned a lot about how to property track progress and their more recent and much bigger projects have improved a lot. 45 SW opened on time and on budget, 290/130 flyovers opened 6 months early and the 183 South project is just finishing up and they've done a really great job. 

Likewise, cap metro has also changed a lot under the leadership of Randy Clark. The dude runs a tight ship. I trust him.

The corridor program for the City of Austin is completing a lot of smaller projects ahead of schedule as they get ready for the longer bigger improvement projects to start in the next few years. That's another example of good government work.

[Updawg 2245]

Mopac was CH2M right?  Or some such private boondoggle.

It was until they finally fired them way too late

I believe ch2m way underbid it

[AUS-97HORN 11558]

 I pointed this out a few pages back, but this morning, Bloomberg had an article showing exactly what i was talking about.

rents in big popular desirable cities are plummeting  because the ability to WFH and not have to be in a physical office anymore is allowing many folks to move to the nice suburbs and/or resort destinations. Heck some renters are even able to get their landlords to drop the rent mid-lease.

tens of thousands of renters have left the big cities in the last 6 month causing a massive glut in apartments in the big cities. especially cities where the young Gen I's wanted to be because of the quirky coffee shops, bars, restaurants and entertainment all being heavily regulated and/or flat out not happening.

just more evidence that for Prop A we absolutely need to hold off for 2 more years to see what the actual fallout from this world changing event really is.  If only half the number of riders are available to use the service then this thing planned, we the taxpayers are gonna get slammed with a huge bill at the end of things.

Boomberg article 

In the world’s big financial centers — from New York to Toronto to London to Sydney — rents for city apartments are plunging.

International students who normally bolster demand are stuck at home and young renters — the most mobile group in real estate — are finding fewer reasons to pay a premium to live in what is, for now, no longer the center of things.

“You’re daft if you aren’t negotiating lower rent right now,’’ said Tim Lawless, Asia Pacific head of research for data provider CoreLogic Inc. “Supply is high and occupancy has fallen off a cliff.”

With remote working in vogue for everyone from banks to tech companies, and the quirky shops and bars that made living in a city fun curtailed, the equation about where to live is changing. And so is the balance of power between landlords and tenants.

Christine Chung, 26, is one of those taking advantage. She just managed to negotiate a 9% drop in rent for the house she shares with three others in Sydney’s trendy Enmore neighborhood about 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) from the city center. It wasn’t easy — the property agent spent the best part of five weeks dodging calls — before the landlord agreed to reduce the rent from A$895 ($638) a week to A$810. Rents are normally quoted in weekly terms in Australia.

 

“I’ll push for another rent reduction at the end of the lease,’’ Chung said. “The market has changed.”

Step out into the leafy suburbs and it’s a different story. Well-off professionals betting they’ll never have to be in the office full time again are willing to trade a longer commute for more space and larger gardens. Prices there are rising despite the looming global recession. 

NEW YORK

In Westchester County — a region north of New York with more than 20,000 acres of parkland — purchase prices for single-family homes have surged 16% from a year ago.

By contrast, Manhattan apartments are the cheapest they've been since 2013. Listings have tripled from a year ago while the median rent has tumbled 11%, with even bigger declines for studios.

Going Down

Rents for the smallest Manhattan apartments are falling fastest

Source: Miller Samuel Inc. and Douglas Elliman Real Estate

 

With offices still barely populated and entertainment limited — Broadway venues are set to stay closed until May — the city’s costliest borough is losing some of its allure.

M. Christine Boyer, a professor of urbanism at Princeton University and a landlord herself, says she’s noticed the change.

“Maybe the drop in prices will bring a more equitable distribution in housing,” Boyer said. Even so, she expects the city’s appeal to endure. “We love cities, we love to congregate.”

SAN FRANCISCO 

 

Few places exemplify the tension between cities as magnets for the ambitious young and sky-rocketing prices better than San Francisco and the Bay Area. Even as the region has minted millionaires, it’s also spawned a housing crisis that has forced some Silicon Valley workers to live in rented RVs parked on city streets.

Now with tech firms telling staff they should expect to work remotely well into next year — and may even be able to do so permanently — rents are falling fast. 

The median monthly rent for a studio in San Francisco tumbled 31% in September from a year earlier to $2,285, compared with a 0.5% decline nationally, according to data released by Realtor.com. 

TORONTO

In downtown Toronto, home to the second-largest financial center in North America behind New York, apartments are piling up.

Rents have plunged, down 14.5% in the third quarter compared with the same period last year, according to data from research firm Urbanation Inc. Properties are also sitting on the market for longer — 26 days in August compared with 14 a year earlier.

The halt to immigration and urban dwellers’ desire for more space to ride out the pandemic has put a dent in demand.  On the supply side, a flurry of new completions and Airbnb operators shifting to longer term leases have also pushed more inventory onto the market.

While resale prices are still above where they were last year, brokers are starting to report some investors are dumping units below market value in an effort to get sales done right away before an anticipated slump.

Out of Whack

A glut of condos for sale is building up in Toronto's glitzy downtown

Sources: Urbanation Inc, Toronto Regional Real Estate Board

Note: Year-on-year change to Sept. 2020

By contrast, prices for detached homes for Toronto as a whole are up 13% on the year.

“The overall housing system seems to be dividing in two,” said Aled ab Iorwerth, deputy chief economist at Canada Mortgage & Housing Corp., the country’s national housing agency. “This is where risks start to appear.”

LONDON

 

In London, declines in international students and the number of well-paid overseas executives seeking temporary homes in the city after Brexit are pushing down rents at the top end. 

In the capital’s wealthiest areas, rents slumped 8.1% in the year through September, the steepest drop in more than a decade, according to broker Knight Frank.

The ripples are being felt down the ladder as well, with London the only region of the country where tenant demand is falling, according to a survey last month by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. Nearly seven out of 10 respondents expect rents in London will fall over the next three months.

“Applicants are noticeably fewer,” London West End appraiser Mark Wilson told the RICS survey. “Rents are still a one-way bet in our view, and it’s south.”

SINGAPORE

In Singapore, an island that’s only 50 kilometers wide and smaller than New York City, the drop in rental volumes isn’t so much about people moving farther out. It’s more about them moving away.

Much of the demand for central rental units in the city state comes from expatriates, who find leasing a cheaper option than buying because of hefty stamp duties levied on foreigners. Now Covid-19 has taken the sheen off many elements of expat life in Asia, with family and friends now seeming very far away and once-frequent travel around the region curtailed.

Singapore is also facing its worst recession in history and the government is putting pressure on firms to hire locally.

Despite a notable bounce in activity as some of the border restrictions eased, rental volumes of private units were down 8% from a year ago, according to data from real estate portal SRX Property. Rents are 17% lower than their peak in 2013. By contrast, home sales are at the highest level in more than two years. 

A growing number of tenants are opting for shorter leases so that they can move quickly if they a find cheaper apartment, said Christine Sun, head of research and consultancy at OrangeTee & Tie.

SYDNEY

 

In Australia’s financial capital, daily new virus cases can be counted on your fingers and the beaches are bustling as summer nears.

While the changes aren’t as dramatic as in some cities, things have shifted. Rents are falling in the city while bidding wars erupt in the suburbs. 

Yet the market also shows the powerful attraction cities have. Vacancy rates in the central business district, which spiked to a record high of 16% in May, according to SQM Research, have stabilized around 13% compared with around 5% pre-pandemic. Closed borders and the absence of international students are weighing heavily on demand. 

The next chapter?

What happens next to the world’s major cities is an open question. 

For these sorts of price drops to translate into affordability improvements — something politicians everywhere have repeatedly failed to achieve — will depend on what happens on the other side of the ledger. 

“You can’t forget income,” Chris Martin, senior research fellow at the City Futures Research Centre in Sydney, said.  “The crisis has changed the ground under the economy.” 

That's particularly true for workers in retail and hospitality who saw earnings slashed practically overnight. 

Corporate owners may also choose to sit on vacant properties while waiting for the market to return, Paul Chatterton, professor of Urban Futures at the University of Leeds, said, while noting there is a real opportunity to convert under-utilized apartments into more diverse spaces.

Given the signs suburban living and home working are increasing, city governments should focus on the core cultural, artistic and political functions of cities, according to Chatterton. “They've really got to find their feet in other directions.”

 

 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, every time Austin City Council plays the "We have to something big, something bold, and something right now...this is the time!"  card...I'm skeptical.  But I get it, and it usually works.  

But the 2020 Pandemic/Economic Shitshow/complete reshuffle of everything we ever thought we knew about commercial real estate and group transportation is just not the fucking right time to float this out there on a lark.  The project and logistics are solid.  The funding model and timing are complete crimes against human decency.  

[Somnio 751]

Thousands and thousands of years of human civilization history have endured catastrophe. 

Wars, genocides, fires, earthquakes, floods, pandemics, great depressions, and a multitude of other nightmares.

And now because of Covid-19 in 2020 we stop planning for the future?  We illogically make the assumption that we no longer need to invest in transportation infrastructure?

That is lunacy.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Somnio

[elfenix 34123]

12 minutes ago, Somnio said:

That is lunacy.

[Guest Lobo]

40 minutes ago, Somnio said:

Thousands and thousands of years of human civilization history have endured catastrophe. 

Wars, genocides, fires, earthquakes, floods, pandemics, great depressions, and a multitude of other nightmares.

And now because of Covid-19 in 2020 we stop planning for the future?  We illogically make the assumption that we no longer need to invest in transportation infrastructure?

That is lunacy.

Plan illogically for said investment in transportation infrastructure, win illogical prizes.  

The three big credit rating agencies and the usual institutional investors that buy our paper have all quietly indicated that is not a good time for this shit.  The pro forma has too many variables in it right now.  Could be golden in 2 years, could be worse.  I agree with you, we've found our way through way worse rabbit holes.  But when these kinds of folks tell you, they'll have to seriously review your repayment power...that's like a New Jersey loan shark looking at your bloodshot eyes and wiping the streak of coke under your nose off your face...and telling you, "I'd like to loan you another marker at 6 points plus the vig...but you seemed fucked up right now.  Maybe have some coffee, something to eat...we'll talk in the morning."  

[AUS-97HORN 11558]

2 hours ago, Somnio said:

Thousands and thousands of years of human civilization history have endured catastrophe. 

Wars, genocides, fires, earthquakes, floods, pandemics, great depressions, and a multitude of other nightmares.

And now because of Covid-19 in 2020 we stop planning for the future?  We illogically make the assumption that we no longer need to invest in transportation infrastructure?

That is lunacy.

I dont disagree with the sentiment.   However, there seems to be a fundamental shift in how ~30-40% of the workforce (maybe even higher in big tech cities like Silicon Valley & Austin) intends to work and/or live moving forward.

For the first time ever, I was in favor of something Austin Transpo related, I was going to vote for this.  But the last 4 months or so have seemed to show that waiting is really the best option.  And I dont mean waiting 10 more years, I mean waiting 2 more years.   The cost to rent in cities is going way down, folks are moving to where ever they want to right now, with many of them working remotely permanently.  LOTS of people this proposal thought would use the services arent going to now.

and for all the "new" residents coming to Austin, lots of them are going to get mobile job offers- they dont have to be here in the Austin metro area anymore- if they have internet, they can be in bumfuck KY if they want to, or Costa Rica, etc. 

The only jobs that are going to require people to be on sight are customer-driven.  Car dealerships, MFG jobs, P.O.S. retail jobs,  restaurants, mechanics, etc.

 

you might be asking us to plan for the completely wrong future... which could cost this city even more than the amounts being tossed around for how much this thing is gonna cost.

[Somnio 751]

I do not believe that the tens of millions of square feet of office space in the center of our city will sit empty in the long-term.  I'm not buying it.

I just deleted an essay I wrote on why Project Connect is still a good idea even in the unlikely event work from home became the norm for a sizeable percentage long-term. 

I believe it to be true, but I know it's not going to change anyone's mind.  It's also things I've written in this very thread before, so I don't want to repeat myself.

I voted yes, and hope it passes because it will be transformative in a positive way for the city over the coming decades.

However, I am not holding my breath.  People are deciding who are selfish and short-sighted.  I don't mean to be insulting, as those traits seem to be default by human nature.

Not a popular opinion, but this is why we elect representatives to make informed decisions for the betterment of the society as a whole.  Are we voting on building a highway?  Do we have an election to decide if we extend water and sewer lines?

[Guest Lobo]

If this is why we elect representatives to make informed decisions for the betterment of the society as a whole, why don't they just budget and allocate for the light rail project themselves (along with CTRMA and CapMetro)?  If it was easy as you said it was, why involve voter debt instruments to begin with? 

Austin is not selfish.  Sure we rank near the bottom of every philanthropic metric in North America...but when it comes to voting up our property taxes on shit that only benefits a handful of people...we are the fucking tops!  

Maybe the approach shouldn't be, "Hey all you selfish, rich assholes...time to pay your fair share and get off the roads!"  Maybe it should be something like, "Austin, we know it's getting insane to keep up with the cost of living here.  We think we've found a way, with a bit of a short-term crunch, to ease our long-term burdens in terms of cost of driving/parking and time wasted in traffic/improve quality of life.  We know it's been a tough year, but this could be a way to start digging ourselves outta the tunnel as it were."  

But nope, it's more of the "Fuck you!  We're AAA rated and money's gonna last forever you selfish cunts!"  Gee, I can't believe this project is polling less popular in Austin than Donald Trump.  

Edited October 23, 2020 by Lobo

[BradInATX 9208]

If Austin's traffic gets reduced by 50% that just means 300,000 more Californians will move there to help fill the void.

[Fico 1726]

The office situation is being tremendously blown out of proportion, but that’s what grabs headlines.

At the end of the day I expect about a 15-20% reduction in a company’s office footprint, on average, nationally. 

Multi-family in the core in Austin is fine. There aren’t many trades right now as landlords are having to fill vacancy from terminating short term rental companies, and quiet frankly they are sitting in very good position with no motivation to sell on slightly less NOI, even in a time of historically low cap rates.  Those vacancies will be filled in the next 12 months, and those projects will transact at record prices. 

The narrative that the sky is falling is not true for the sunbelt cities.

As soon as there are announcements regarding vaccines and timelines, you will see large office transactions occurring again. Companies are gathering information and kicking tires by the boat load, they just need some sort of guidance in regard to a timeline.

I say vote for the plan. I did. 
 

 

[destroya 358]

I voted no, and will continue to vote no on most bond proposals, as a protest against our shitty city council. 

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:47 AM, Lobo said:

Yeah, every time Austin City Council plays the "We have to something big, something bold, and something right now...this is the time!"  card...I'm skeptical.  But I get it, and it usually works.  

For the record, it almost never works. The people of this city almost always vote against our own future. We vote against school bonds, we voted against transportation infrastructure in 2000 and 2014, and we have strangled every effort to rewrite our broken land development code for the last 30 years. 

This city isn't full of broken shit because of council or cap metro. Council has failed and cap metro have failed because our voters are a toxic combination of cheap, naive, and obsessed with the past. 

People should vote for prop A and B because there's no time machine option, but I suspect they wont, and 15 years from now  the same people will still be bitching about council and cap metro. 

[Armybrat 40559]

Chicken & the egg thing.

[Pasken 1309]

Randy Clark is someone you want leading the agency with funding. He runs a tight ship. If Austin screws up Prop A then we are so royally fucked.

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

55 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Chicken & the egg thing.

Except there is no egg. The chicken keeps clucking about rotten eggs despite (per perhaps because of) not laying anything in 40+ years.

[Armybrat 40559]

I’d say the CoA has been laying eggs consistently since the Jeff Friedman era. That’s when UT students from out of town were allowed to vote In Travis County/CoA elections, IIRC. Morphed into the urban core bicycle voting block.

[gsoda3 3195]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Except there is no egg. The chicken keeps clucking about rotten eggs despite (per perhaps because of) not laying anything in 40+ years.

sounds like something an egg would say.

[drt 637]

Everybody bitches. Everyone kicks the can down the road on pretty much every issue. Rinse, repeat. 
 

COA politics in a nutshell. 

[Pasken 1309]

18 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I’d say the CoA has been laying eggs consistently since the Jeff Friedman era. That’s when UT students from out of town were allowed to vote In Travis County/CoA elections, IIRC. Morphed into the urban core bicycle voting block.

My wife and I just bought electric bikes to get around town easier. Do you ever just wonder if you're the one out of touch as oppose to city council?

[Armybrat 40559]

There is plenty of evidence posted here by Austin residents that I am not out of touch with that shitty city council.

I like efficient public transportation for the masses and have used various types from rickshaws to bullet trains, and think Austin should upgrade to something viable. But I have no faith in any of the current leadership to pull it off in a cost effective manner... without any corruption.

My cynicism is based on observation over the past half century. You can shit on me all you like, but that doesn’t change my opinion or Austin’s failures.

Edited to add..... I’d like an electric bike to zip around the Brushy Creek/Avery Ranch/Round Rock area.. Things are pretty pricey though.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Armybrat

[Orange&White 5506]

10 minutes ago, Pasken said:

My wife and I just bought electric bikes to get around town easier. Do you ever just wonder if you're the one out of touch as oppose to city council?

I get around town just fine where I live and don't feel the need to open the checkbook to the tune of 10's of thousands of dollars over my lifetime for you to get around easier and me not reaping a single benefit from it, all the while reading about the waste and corruption that will be a part of it for the rest of my life.

If you choose to live in the city center, why do you feel it is ok to have hundreds of thousands of people who choose not live there, subsidies you?

[Pasken 1309]

Just now, Orange&White said:

I get around town just fine where I live and don't feel the need to open the checkbook to the tune of 10's of thousands of dollars over my lifetime for you to get around easier and me not reaping a single benefit from it, all the while reading about the waste and corruption that will be a part of it for the rest of my life.

If you choose to live in the city center, why do you feel it is ok to have hundreds of thousands of people who choose not live there, subsidies you?

I don't live in the city center but keep going, you're doing so poorly I don't want to stop you. 

[Orange&White 5506]

1 minute ago, Pasken said:

I don't live in the city center but keep going, you're doing so poorly I don't want to stop you. 

Where do you live that you need a bike to get around easily? If the entire system is built, will you still need a bike to "get around easy"?

[Orange&White 5506]

No one has yet to explain where the magical "anticipated" 45% of federal funds will come from during a down economy and when more people are working from home. Very similar to the "anticpated" federal funds for the red line that were never even remotely considered by the federal government. So we're suppose to pony up $7.1B and just hope that the feds dish out another $3B? What happens when they don't? Does the project stop? Fuck no it doesn't. The citizens would be on the hook for that as well. 

If they had broken the project into two different proposals and put them both on the ballot at the actual cost to complete each one, one vote for the buses, one vote for the rail, they would have had a chance to build the bus portion of the plan.

Instead, they lumped the ridiculously overpriced, wasteful and inflexible fixed rail into one giant proposal that will likely be voted down.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

 

32 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I get around town just fine where I live and don't feel the need to open the checkbook to the tune of 10's of thousands of dollars over my lifetime for you to get around easier and me not reaping a single benefit from it, all the while reading about the waste and corruption that will be a part of it for the rest of my life.

If you choose to live in the city center, why do you feel it is ok to have hundreds of thousands of people who choose not live there, subsidies you?

like I said

4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This city isn't full of broken shit because of council or cap metro. Council has failed and cap metro have failed because our voters are a toxic combination of cheap, naive, and obsessed with the past. 

 

[Orange&White 5506]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

like I said

 

The view is great on your high horse.

Just because someone doesn't to pay for something they will never use doesn't mean they are cheap. Like I said, give me a vote for a $900M bus enhancement project, I'm in. Combine it with a $6B train? Fuck right off.

You want to build a plan that will only benefit the people downtown? Set up a TIRZ and have at it. But don't get pissy when the 60% of the people who won't benefit a bit from your overpriced inflexible choo choo project vote it down.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Orange&White

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

11 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

The view is great on your high horse.

Just because someone doesn't to pay for something they will never use doesn't mean they are cheap. Like I said, give me a vote for a $900M bus enhancement project, I'm in. Combine it with a $6B train? Fuck right off.

You want to build a plan that will only benefit the people downtown? Set up a TIRZ and have at it. But don't get pissy when the 60% of the people who won't benefit a bit from your overpriced inflexible choo choo project vote it down.

Interesting. I'm not a train guy, but what do you think those people who take the train will be doing if they aren't on the train? Also, walk me through what's in this "bus enhancement project". You realize that the street grid is inherently broken and unfixable, right?

[Orange&White 5506]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Interesting. I'm not a train guy, but what do you think those people who take the train will be doing if they aren't on the train? Also, walk me through what's in this "bus enhancement project". You realize that the street grid is inherently broken and unfixable, right?

Then why is there roughly $900 million included into this exact proposal that is for bus service? If it is s broken that it can't be fixed, why is it being included?

Quote

Project Overview

Project Connect is a comprehensive transit plan including new rail service, new and expanded bus service with an anticipated all-electric bus fleet, new park and rides and more. 

New Rail System

The planned light rail system includes a new rail system with 27 miles of service and 31 stations, along with the following lines:

• Orange Line (initial investment: from North Lamar and U.S. 183 to Stassney Lane): To connect North and South Austin
• Blue Line (from North Lamar and U.S. 183 to downtown and the Austin Bergstrom International Airport): To offer service to the airport
• Green Line (from downtown to East Austin’s Colony Park): New commuter rail service

Transit Tunnel Under Downtown

Light rail is proposed to travel underground downtown. The City expects operating rail service beneath the streets to increase the system’s travel time reliability and to be safer than operating at street level.

Four New Rapid Bus Routes

• The Gold Line (from the Austin Community College (ACC) Highland Campus to South Congress and Ben White Boulevard): A MetroRapid service that could eventually be converted to light rail as a part of the Project Connect System Plan.
• Expo Center (from East Austin to the University of Texas and downtown) 
• Pleasant Valley (from Mueller to the Goodnight Ranch Park & Ride)
• Burnet (from The Domain to Menchaca and Oak Hill)

New Facilities

The plan includes as many as nine new Park & Ride facilities at Four Points, Loop 360, ACC Highland, Delco Center, Expo Center, Wildflower Center, Goodnight, McKinney Falls, MetroCenter, and a new transit center at the Eastside Bus Plaza.

New Circulators

The plan proposes 15 new neighborhood circulators, on-demand pickup and drop-off to locations within zones. Circulators provide first-mile/last-mile service and connections to transit stations and other destinations.

Transit-Supportive Anti-Displacement Funds

If approved by voters, the tax rate includes $300 million for transit-supportive anti-displacement housing strategies. These strategies would be guided by the Austin Strategic Housing Blueprint and Federal Transit Administration, and the needs of the communities for housing along the Project Connect System Plan. 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

 

1 minute ago, Orange&White said:

Then why is there roughly $900 million included into this exact proposal that is for bus service? If it is s broken that it can't be fixed, why is it being included?

 

Because transportation is a system and the bus enhancement is in the context of a much larger infrastructure investment.  But don't worry -  Austin voters are going to do exactly what we have been doing for 40 years. Vote do do nothing and blame others when transit problems continue to worsen. 

[Orange&White 5506]

Let's take this exact proposal and instead of the train portion being downtown, let's move it to where it goes from RiverPlace and Steiner Ranch, down 2222 and into downtown. Think of ALL of those vehicles we could get off of 2222 and MOPAC every day!! Hell, I might be ready to vote on it then. But if we did that, then everyone that is now thinking about voting for the current plan, like the East Austin/Mueller group would all of a sudden become the "toxic" and "cheap" an "naïve" voters because they would see no benefit and would not want to increase their annual tax bill by $500 for something they wouldn't use.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Orange&White

[Orange&White 5506]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

Because transportation is a system and the bus enhancement is in the context of a much larger infrastructure investment.  But don't worry -  Austin voters are going to do exactly what we have been doing for 40 years. Vote do do nothing and blame others when transit problems continue to worsen. 

So you're of the opinion that the ONLY way to solve Austin's issues is to build fixed rail? You don't think there is any value in investing into busses?

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

17 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Let's take this exact proposal and instead of the train portion being downtown, let's move it to where it goes from RiverPlace and Steiner Ranch, down 2222 and into downtown. Think of ALL of those vehicles we could get off of 2222 and MOPAC every day!! Hell, I might be ready to vote on it then. But if we did that, then everyone that is now thinking about voting for the current plan, like the East Austin/Mueller group would all of a sudden become the "toxic" and "cheap" an "naïve" voters because they would see no benefit and would not want to increase their annual tax bill by $500 for something they wouldn't use.

Thew numbers wouldn't pencil out. Not enough density in Steiner or River place to support that. 

 

15 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

So you're of the opinion that the ONLY way to solve Austin's issues is to build fixed rail? You don't think there is any value in investing into busses?

There is no solving Austin's transportation issues. That ship has sailed a long time ago. There are only different degrees of mitigation. A train/subway investments over the next 30-40 years along with a radical rethinking of our land code to turn growth inward and shorten distances offers the greatest degree of mitigation. 

And I think there's a lot of value in buses for last mile service and short hop commutes. But as a transit option it can't outperform the street grid unless you can separate it from traffic, which is politically untenable, because you lose car lanes. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[ChickenSandwich 9768]

1 hour ago, Pasken said:

My wife and I just bought electric bikes to get around town easier. Do you ever just wonder if you're the one out of touch as oppose to city council?

Are you the one person using the 13 million dollar bike bridge along Mopac to get to work?  Or do you live in a alternate reality where 100 degree temperature plus humidity doesn’t exist. I guess it works if your office has shower. 

[Somnio 751]

1 hour ago, Orange&White said:

 

If you choose to live in the city center, why do you feel it is ok to have hundreds of thousands of people who choose not live there, subsidies you?

Lulz 

[Armybrat 40559]

Bring back the Dillo!

[Somnio 751]

The cities subsidize the sprawl is more like it.  All of the driver's who live in Central Austin pay gas taxes that are used to fund and maintain highways they don't drive on.  The highways are clogged not because of the residents of Hyde Park, but those coming in from Williamson and Hays counties.

Not only that, but the property taxes paid on Central Austin properties are massive in comparison to the outlying areas.  Just the money collected in the roughly 1 square mile downtown area, which is on a nearly two hundred year old street grid makes any claim that the suburbs subsidize the city one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.

[MrBig 5183]

1 hour ago, Orange&White said:

No one has yet to explain where the magical "anticipated" 45% of federal funds will come from during a down economy and when more people are working from home. Very similar to the "anticpated" federal funds for the red line that were never even remotely considered by the federal government. So we're suppose to pony up $7.1B and just hope that the feds dish out another $3B? What happens when they don't? Does the project stop? Fuck no it doesn't. The citizens would be on the hook for that as well. 

If they had broken the project into two different proposals and put them both on the ballot at the actual cost to complete each one, one vote for the buses, one vote for the rail, they would have had a chance to build the bus portion of the plan.

Instead, they lumped the ridiculously overpriced, wasteful and inflexible fixed rail into one giant proposal that will likely be voted down.

 

This is being overlooked. The $7.1B budget assumes that 45% of the money will come from federal funding. What if they can’t get any federal money? 

They said this about the Red Line and never got any federal funding.