So uh..Austin Subway*, Light Rail Expansions and $3.2 - $10.2 Billion

[Orange&White 5501]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

And that metric is chosen to specifically allow the highway to win. It's like saying UT basketball is 10x better than UT baseball due to points/runs scored.

When you factor in the costs of vehicles, fuel, externalities for highway usage, it's not so cut and dry.

 

Maybe, but there is not a single way for the transit people to manipulate or bend the numbers where light rail is anything but a massive cost spread across the entire population of which fewer than 20% even utilize it.

[YGIFS 19445]

3 hours ago, Orange&White said:

Maybe, but there is not a single way for the transit people to manipulate or bend the numbers where light rail is anything but a massive cost spread across the entire population of which fewer than 20% even utilize it.

fewer than 20%?  If 19% of Austin used our current platform, I'd rubber stamp $50bn dollars to it and jerk off on every car.  We're at 1% usage, with a projected usage of 3% on a weekly basis.  And that's without the recent reveals that none of the lines are gonna go anywhere of any fucking import.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13310]

18 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

fewer than 20%?  If 19% of Austin used our current platform, I'd rubber stamp $50bn dollars to it and jerk off on every car.  We're at 1% usage, with a projected usage of 3% on a weekly basis.  And that's without the recent reveals that none of the lines are gonna go anywhere of any fucking import.  

Here's how I see mass transit for many of the major, newer US cities: our previous leaders failed us.  Many of them had decent mass transit options but they tore them all out in the 50s-70s.  Houston had electric streetcars until 1940. 

The practical truth is that it's impossible to drop a full light rail system on a large city within a decade. The first couple of decades will be hit and miss while the system grows to scale.

The transit decisions today may not fully pay off until 2050 or 2070.  but if you wait until then, it may be 2100 before the full, positive impact is realized. 

[B00M 6032]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

I'd mushroom stamp $50bn dollars to it and jerk off on every car.  

Fixed

 

 

[Deej 76197]

Just bring back the Dillos.

[YGIFS 19445]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

Just bring back the Dillos.

What do you call an armadillo that Mates with a gondola?

[WBT 20253]

Actually, gon-dillos would be great branding

[YGIFS 19445]

Yep, there it is.  Let's get shirts made.  

[YGIFS 19445]

11 hours ago, WBT said:

Actually, gon-dillos would be great branding

I called Blue Oyster Cult and they're willing to remake the song to "Go Go, Gon-Dillo" We'll have to invest in their police academy but they will give up the royalties.

[Deej 76197]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:16 AM, YGIFS said:

I called Blue Oyster Cult and they're willing to remake the song to "Go Go, Gon-Dillo" We'll have to invest in their police academy but they will give up the royalties.

Hopeless council pushing light rail

Voters bug-eyed when they see the bill

Oh, no...this traffic's way to slow

Go, Go, Gondillo

Oh, no...these homeless got to go

Go, Go, Gondillo

[SquishMitten 10370]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:49 PM, YGIFS said:

What do you call an armadillo that Mates with a gondola?

 

On 3/28/2023 at 10:16 PM, WBT said:

Actually, gon-dillos would be great branding

Might as well call it the Dildola with how much the plan will probably fuck us.

[smokebomb 357]

https://www.kut.org/transportation/2023-05-23/austin-project-connect-recommendation-light-rail-10-miles-street-level
 

Quote

Project Connect recommendation revealed: Light-rail would stretch 10 miles at street level

KUT 90.5 | By Nathan Bernier

Published May 23, 2023 at 10:48 AM CDT

The Austin Transit Partnership is unveiling its vision for the city's transit expansion: An almost 10-mile, on-street light-rail system that would reshape Austin's transit map and move 30,000 people per day. The recommendation comes after two and a half years of ups and downs for the voter-endorsed Project Connect.

After a six-week public engagement blitz, ATP selected its recommendation from five potential plans. This blueprint will now tour a circuit of public officials who will decide what actually gets built.

ATP's recommended light-rail plan is a significant detour from the initial promise to voters. At 9.8 miles, the revised map provides less than half the distance and a starkly reduced estimated ridership compared to the 2020 vision.

The new proposal trims major ambitions, including the $2 billion downtown subway that was dangled in front of voters with artist renderings showing underground shopping, dining and live music.

But ATP is heralding the recommended plan as the first phase of a grander vision. This leaner design helps sidestep a potential fiscal sinkhole after the original $5.8 billion price tag had ballooned to more than $10 billion due to inflation and design changes.

This new Project Connect milestone is being triumphantly unveiled Tuesday to the ATP board and Austin City Council against the backdrop of intensifying threats from state officials. Republican lawmakers and the Texas Attorney General are convinced Austin twisted state law to exploit a loophole in the power of local government to tax and borrow.

A bill promising to create new obstacles for ATP's borrowing authority has advanced almost to the desk of Gov. Greg Abbott. Compounding this uncertainty, a recent legal opinion by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton raises concerns about the city's strategy for financing the transit system. 

Paxton says the way the city is dedicating property taxes to ATP for financing up to $1.75 billion in bonds and loans likely violates state law and the Texas constitution. On Monday, state Sen. Paul Bettencourt modified House Bill 3899 — the one targeting ATP — to integrate Paxton's concerns, increasing roadblocks for Project Connect.

But ATP is still forging ahead. 

The local government corporation's recommended plan calls for building a rail network that winds from 38th Street down Guadalupe, turns on Third Street downtown to reach the Austin Convention Center, pivots south on Trinity Street and leaps over Lady Bird Lake on a bridge yet to take shape.

A new light-rail bridge would be built across Lady Bird Lake at Trinity Street under ATP's recommendation, potentially requiring the demolition of the Waller Creek Boathouse. Earlier Project Connect plans called for building a new boathouse elsewhere on Lady Bird Lake. 

Arriving at the south shore of Lady Bird Lake, the route would split at Waterfront Station — a stop that could blend into a large and densely populated development planned at the site of the old Austin American-Statesman building.

One line would cruise down South Congress Avenue to Oltorf Street, while the other would venture down Riverside Drive, finding its terminus at Yellow Jacket Lane next to a new Park and Ride and a proposed $1 billion maintenance hub. 

ATP's recommended map includes a new term: "phase one priority extensions." These are highly demanded sections that could get built immediately if there's enough money left over in the $5 billion budget or if new cash becomes available.

One of the priority extensions would reach from Yellow Jacket to Austin-Bergstrom International Airport — providing an airport connection that ATP says was the single most demanded feature among the thousands of comments received over the public comment period.

Earlier Project Connect renderings show what a light-rail station might look like at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport. An airport station was the most requested connection during ATP's six-week public engagement period, ATP Executive Director Greg Canally said. 

The other priority extension would stretch from 38th Street to Lamar and Airport Boulevards, boosting ridership by connecting to the MetroRail station at Crestview.

The plan best reflects what people asked for during the public comment period, the agency's Executive Director Greg Canally said, because it provides at least some coverage in all three directions laid out in the 2020 plans — north, south and east.

"The number one thing we heard along the line was, 'Let's get moving on this,'" Canally said. "We believe this phase one [of] Austin light-rail really achieves that. It allows us to get moving on building a system that Austinites want."

Canally defended on-street light-rail as "the best solution for Austin," saying it's more accessible than elevated or underground rail and makes the system highly visible. On-street rail is also the least expensive option, allowing for greater overall distance.

Elevated rail ensures trains can travel faster than the speed of traffic, a key factor in luring riders. Building elevated lines downtown would have cost about a third more than street-level lines downtown, according to an ATP document.

Under ATP's recommended plan, light-rail would run at surface level down Third Street downtown between Guadalupe and Trinity Streets. 

Putting trains on street level would increase travel times downtown but "not by very much," ATP's Engineering and Construction Chief Lindsay Wood said, because of how traffic signals would be timed.

"When you get that green light to come out of the station, the train gets all green lights until it gets to the next station," Wood said. This type of "transit signal priority" would require coordinating with the city and could affect waiting times on cross streets, including in theory for CapMetro buses.

The details of the plan will be debated in the coming weeks by the three bodies overseeing Project Connect: the Austin City Council, Capital Metro's board of directors and the ATP board — which is missing one of its five voting members since the April resignation of transportation finance professional Tony Elkins.

Those governing boards will gather for a joint meeting June 6. That's when they're expected to make a final decision.

[YGIFS 19445]

So about 35% of what was initially promised to voters for about the same cost (when you factor in debt service and reduction in federal dollars to be made up for by us)?

Holy shit, where do I send more money?  This seems dynamite!  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10002]

Estimated ridership in 2040 is only 28,500 daily riders?

[Texas Jeff 1918]

15 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Estimated ridership in 2040 is only 28,500 daily riders?

There is no way in hell they are getting to 28,500 daily riders.

Houston's Red Line is probably the best light rail line in Texas right now.  It has 25 stops over 13 miles and runs through a dense area of town including a huge medical center.  Houston is getting 34,000 weekday riders per day on the Red Line and under 20,000 riders per day on weekends.

 This proposed Austin line is 15 stations over 9.8 miles, including such gems as Yellow Jacket and Faro.  The density along the route is nothing compared to Houston.  How many people are going to walk through an HEB parking lot so that they can stand at a station in the middle of Riverside and Pleasant Valley? Most of the campus students are walking east/west and won't ride the rail on weekdays.

I think they get 10,000 riders per day, and might be lucky to get 15,000.  That would be more than Houston's other two rail lines, the Green and Purple lines, which offer 19 stops over about 10 miles.

[YGIFS 19445]

Yeah, even at 28,000 daily riders---the economics don't make sense and that's almost 20 years from now.  They'll be lucky to get half of that, assuming even a slight majority of that density gets built out.  I like that half-assed attempt on the new map to make it look like the rail line "could go all the way to the airport one day like we promised you."  May as well have extended it out with a fucking sharpie it's so comically full of shit.  I mean, between costs, federal contributions, linear miles of track, number of stations, ridership, and core functionality/economic impact...this thing is literally half of what was promised for twice the price.  This is Louisiana-level corruption.  

[Armybrat 40544]

5 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, even at 28,000 daily riders---the economics don't make sense and that's almost 20 years from now.  They'll be lucky to get half of that, assuming even a slight majority of that density gets built out.  I like that half-assed attempt on the new map to make it look like the rail line "could go all the way to the airport one day like we promised you."  May as well have extended it out with a fucking sharpie it's so comically full of shit.  I mean, between costs, federal contributions, linear miles of track, number of stations, ridership, and core functionality/economic impact...this thing is literally half of what was promised for twice the price.  This is Louisiana-level corruption.  

As are most all the city projects for the last few generations.

[MrBig 5182]

Wouldn’t it just be cheaper to make a BRT system in the space where the light rail would be on the street level? 

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

50 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

As are most all the city projects for the last few generations.

How much would 28,000 daily Ubers cost, especially if some of them carpooled?  What a farce the COA has created!

[YGIFS 19445]

You gotta give them credit.  Adler timed this particular grift absolutely perfect.  His own law firm is handling the Terminal 2 litigation with the City.  Covid is waining and ABIA traffic is absolutely through the roof.  Even the most ardent "I don't trust city bond proposals" citizen is sitting 30 minutes to drop off or pickup a loved one or colleague at the Jordan terminal.  They see this light rail plan and figure, "Hell, this is bullshit but at least I can get to the airport easier and people flying in to see us can just take into town.  Oh what the hell, okay."  The one thing most people could agree on about it was the airport service.  

I am here to tell you that the airport station is never going to happen before 2040.  It's just not.  Just like some people have to come to terms with the fact they were sold a bill of goods from politicians in Washington, so too will some Austin residents have to eventually face the fact---this was complete and total bullshit and you fell for it and our children will have to pay for your naivety.  Know how I know?  The engineering team for the terminal expansion never had authentic plans in place for where to incorporate the last stop.  He's an Irishman with a drinking problem.  Now once they finish it all at the end of this decade, some other firm and council and mayor can figure a way to route one in there.  But the current incarnation of the airport and the ensuing expansion?  There was never a plan to have a light rail station involved in any of it.  They got about as far as the new 183/71 interchange and that was it. 

tl;dr---you're just as fucking stupid as the people with the bumper stickers you don't like so much. 

[Texas Jeff 1918]

3 hours ago, MrBig said:

Wouldn’t it just be cheaper to make a BRT system in the space where the light rail would be on the street level? 

There are two BRT projects in Project Connect, so it's easy to compare costs:

• Expo Center BRT line, 12 miles, 23 stations, total cost $35.62 million.  Austin taxpayers split the cost with the feds, about $17.8 million each
• Pleasant Valley BRT line, 14 miles, 19 stations, total cost $36.56 million.  Austin taxpayers again split the cost with the feds, about $18.28 million each

That Expo Center line is pretty sweet if you live in Mueller.  Goes right through campus and then downtown.  Both BRT lines are fully electric. They are expected to combine for about 9000 "linked trips" per day now and 18,000 linked trips by 2040.

About two-thirds of the projected rail ridership for a total taxpayer commitment of $35 million.  Both lines are going to be operational by 2025.

A similar line to run from the airport to campus down Riverside might cost the same, figure $17 million from you the taxpayer and the rest from the feds.  Versus $5 billion for rail for the same route, except rail doesn't get you to the airport.

The system might also be cheaper to operate, since we would have a lot of BRT in town and drivers could be swapped from route to route, rather than having some trained to run rail cars and some trained to drive BRT.

Rail at grade really makes no sense when BRT is an option, IMHO.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Texas Jeff

[Neonmoon 38126]

You’re forgetting that no one wants to ride a bus…ever

I recently flew to Edinburgh. Hopped on a super convenient light rail at airport. 10 minutes and we were dropped off in city center. 8 dollars. Same situation in Paris. It’s mind blowing how the US can’t figure out simple mass transit. 

 

[TKthunder2 4959]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

You’re forgetting that no one wants to ride a bus…ever

Yep.

[Chet Steadman 940]

Is there a way we can get something on the ballot this upcoming November to have the good citizens of Austin unvote this boondoggle?

 

[Texas Jeff 1918]

1 minute ago, Chet Steadman said:

Is there a way we can get something on the ballot this upcoming November to have the good citizens of Austin unvote this boondoggle?

There is a bill pending in the lege to require a second vote on Project Connect this November.

The idea is that when Austin voted for Project Connect, we voted for a revenue stream for the project but we did not vote to give Austin Transit Partnership the authority to borrow money.  If the bill becomes law, Austin will have a second election to authorize ATP to borrow money to construct the rail system.  If that election fails, then it will be difficult or impossible for ATP to assemble enough money to build the rail system.

If that happens, ATP will still be receiving tax money but will be unlikely to be able to build a rail system with what they collect.

[MrBig 5182]

15 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

You’re forgetting that no one wants to ride a bus…ever

I recently flew to Edinburgh. Hopped on a super convenient light rail at airport. 10 minutes and we were dropped off in city center. 8 dollars. Same situation in Paris. It’s mind blowing how the US can’t figure out simple mass transit. 

 

The airport flyer costs $1.25 and takes about 35 minutes to get downtown. But nobody wants to ride a bus and sit in traffic. If this route was enclosed and independent of traffic, people would use it way more often even if it is just a bus. 
 

So what’s the cost difference between building a light rail vs closed BRT system? Why is BRT good enough for some routes but a light rail is needed for others? Why not make all the routes one or the other? 

I’m not anti-light rail, I am just for a mass transit system that is the least expensive to build. I hate riding the bus too, but riding a system independent of traffic is more important than method of transportation.

[Neonmoon 38126]

34 minutes ago, MrBig said:

The airport flyer costs $1.25 and takes about 35 minutes to get downtown. But nobody wants to ride a bus and sit in traffic. If this route was enclosed and independent of traffic, people would use it way more often even if it is just a bus. 
 

So what’s the cost difference between building a light rail vs closed BRT system? Why is BRT good enough for some routes but a light rail is needed for others? Why not make all the routes one or the other? 

I’m not anti-light rail, I am just for a mass transit system that is the least expensive to build. I hate riding the bus too, but riding a system independent of traffic is more important than method of transportation.

No, they would not. 

I've never spoken with anyone that would willingly ride a city bus past college, even if some of them probably should due to their income levels. It has nothing to do with time, cost, or speed. These same people would happily ride a train or light rail. Buses are stigmatized, fairly or not, as transportation for poor people. Guess who wants to be considered poor in America? NO ONE.

People would rather pay for an uber, even if more expensive, to avoid riding a bus. 

The least expensive mass transit system would be a dedicated lane for bicycles, but no is advocating for that, because no one wants to ride a bicycle 

[YGIFS 19445]

If there was an express bus that picked up downtown and maybe stopped one more time (Riverside or East Side) and then straight to the airport and I mean...right in front of the terminal with some sorta priority access...I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat.  To leave work and go with maybe a 25-minute ride considering bus lanes.  But nope, why in the fucking wide world of sports would CapMetro ever consider beta-testing that when we could just sell voters a bag of bullshit costing tens of billions without achieving the same goal?  

[Deej 76197]

The good news? Even with the downsizing of the original proposal, they still want to tear down Dirty's. 

[Guest]

I voted against this garbage. Here's a live look at me now to 60% of Austin and 100% of r/Austin:

Except that I get to pay for it for as long as I live here, so really, who is the dummy?

I honestly don't know where Adler sits on my pantheon of politicians I hate. He is by far the highest city official. A couple of state guys beat him out, along with a certain former president. But damn if Adler isn't way up there.

[MrBig 5182]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

If there was an express bus that picked up downtown and maybe stopped one more time (Riverside or East Side) and then straight to the airport and I mean...right in front of the terminal with some sorta priority access...I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat.  To leave work and go with maybe a 25-minute ride considering bus lanes.  But nope, why in the fucking wide world of sports would CapMetro ever consider beta-testing that when we could just sell voters a bag of bullshit costing tens of billions without achieving the same goal?  

This used to be the 100-Airport Flyer. It would make a stop once at the UT campus, downtown, and once off Riverside. It was fast and convenient to get to the airport from Campus and downtown. The only option to the airport now is using a traditional bus route (20-Manor/Riverside) with several stops. CapMetro is stupid for not bringing this route back post-COVID to see how many people would use it.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, MrBig said:

This used to be the 100-Airport Flyer. It would make a stop once at the UT campus, downtown, and once off Riverside. It was fast and convenient to get to the airport from Campus and downtown. The only option to the airport now is using a traditional bus route (20-Manor/Riverside) with several stops. CapMetro is stupid for not bringing this route back post-COVID to see how many people would use it.

I waited on that bus on Dean Keeton in undergrad 20 years ago. It was January, wind was whipping through those damn buildings. So fucking cold. I stood there for an hour waiting on the bus until I finally walked back to the dorm and looked up that the stop was closed due to the 3M half marathon. No notice at the stop (this was before iPhones were really a thing) to look it up.

[PilotsError 2255]

People would absolutely use the bus if it was dedicated to the airport and didn’t stop for lights. And homeless weren’t allowed on it.  

[WBT 20253]

 

[YGIFS 19445]

16 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

People would absolutely use the bus if it was dedicated to the airport and didn’t stop for lights. And homeless weren’t allowed on it.  

I could even deal with homeless.  But an every hour or half hour during peak times, 7am-7pm that left the CBD with maybe one more stop and used dedicated bus lanes that are Already mostly there, straight to the terminal with some kinda priority access so it didn’t get caught behind all the Dropoff traffic.  Most workers downtown would do that in a heartbeat.  Especially just for a few bucks with wi fi. Hell, some wise vendor would setup a food truck at the pickup stop and you get a taco and a beer for the ride.  But instead we’re gonna spend $5bn for a rail line that drops you off at the Waffle House that is ABIA “adjacent”

[Armybrat 40544]

Well, you have to factor in the value of the Waffle House entertainment.

[Texas Jeff 1918]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:57 AM, YGIFS said:

I could even deal with homeless.  But an every hour or half hour during peak times, 7am-7pm that left the CBD with maybe one more stop and used dedicated bus lanes that are Already mostly there, straight to the terminal with some kinda priority access so it didn’t get caught behind all the Dropoff traffic.  Most workers downtown would do that in a heartbeat.  Especially just for a few bucks with wi fi. Hell, some wise vendor would setup a food truck at the pickup stop and you get a taco and a beer for the ride.  But instead we’re gonna spend $5bn for a rail line that drops you off at the Waffle House that is ABIA “adjacent”

The 20 runs from 5 am to about 11:30 pm, every 15 minutes from 5:40 to 9:40.  It has many more stops that light rail will ever have.  If Cap Metro were smart, they would call it the Airport Bus so that people might try taking it to the airport, but instead most have no idea it's headed that way.

It doesn't have dedicated lanes but it moves pretty quick since few are riding it.  It passes stops if no one is waiting.  Downtown to the Airport is a 42 minute ride, plus up to 15 minutes to wait if you just missed the bus.  The same trip by car is 20-40 minutes by car, depending on traffic.  The bus is a little slower than a car but not much, especially if you have to park and ride a shuttle.

At the airport, the bus isn't blocked by pickup traffic.  It runs down the taxi/shuttle bus lane outside of the pickup curb and stops all .... the .... way .... at .... the .... end of the terminal, at a ridiculous $600,000 bus stop shaped like a giant guitar.  The city cares enough about the bus to make a guitar shaped bus stop but not enough to put the stop in a convenient location.

Total cost is $1.25 and you'll probably have the bus almost to yourself.  Free if you are a child, UT student/faculty/staff, or city of Austin employee.  Half price if you are a senior.  Have I sold you?

[Deej 76197]

Not enough money to be pilfered from a bus route. 

[gurt 736]

No, they would not. 
I've never spoken with anyone that would willingly ride a city bus past college, even if some of them probably should due to their income levels. It has nothing to do with time, cost, or speed. These same people would happily ride a train or light rail. Buses are stigmatized, fairly or not, as transportation for poor people. Guess who wants to be considered poor in America? NO ONE.
People would rather pay for an uber, even if more expensive, to avoid riding a bus. 
The least expensive mass transit system would be a dedicated lane for bicycles, but no is advocating for that, because no one wants to ride a bicycle 

How often are you talking to people about riding buses? Even if your anecdotal evidence is true and only poor people rode the bus, well, we have plenty of those who need getting around. I’m guessing the bottom 25% wouldn’t mind not having to be so car dependent to free up some money tied up in vehicle expenses. Or are you saying they’re too proud to admit they’re poor despite working at McDonald’s?

Also, did you just call the bicycle, the most individualistic means of transportation possible, mass transit?

[blacklab 11820]

My sister is a social worker and works with a lot of poor people. The one goal every one of them has when they get a job is to save up money to get a car so they don't have to wait on the bus. 

I have a friend who got in a wreck with her car. She decided she was going to save the earth and start riding the bus around town. She lived around I35/Riverside and worked around Riverside/Congress. After about two weeks of busses being 15-30 minutes late or not showing up at all and forcing her to walk she went and bought a car. She also hated grocery shopping as she was basically limited to 2 bags per trip. 

 

[gurt 736]

sounds like both of those situations would be solved if there was actually BRT

[Neonmoon 38126]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:26 PM, gurt said:

How often are you talking to people about riding buses? Even if your anecdotal evidence is true and only poor people rode the bus, well, we have plenty of those who need getting around. I’m guessing the bottom 25% wouldn’t mind not having to be so car dependent to free up some money tied up in vehicle expenses. Or are you saying they’re too proud to admit they’re poor despite working at McDonald’s?

Also, did you just call the bicycle, the most individualistic means of transportation possible, mass transit?

“Buses are stigmatized, fairly or not, as transportation for poor people.” This sentence does not mean that “only poor people ride the bus”. I was referring to the status symbol of buses as opposed to cars or trains. 

Amsterdam utilizes the bicycle as a means to transport its masses. They do this by providing dedicated bike lanes throughout its city, especially in the old town. 

[YGIFS 19445]

Yes, and Amsterdam probably has very similar weather to Austin from May to October where it is Oh So Pleasant to bike about the MSA.  

Even my sweaty ass can bike to work in Holland in Jul.y

[PilotsError 2255]

Remember when that Pasken dipshit wanted everyone to ride motorcycles?

[gurt 736]

18 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

“Buses are stigmatized, fairly or not, as transportation for poor people.” This sentence does not mean that “only poor people ride the bus”. I was referring to the status symbol of buses as opposed to cars or trains. 

Amsterdam utilizes the bicycle as a means to transport its masses. They do this by providing dedicated bike lanes throughout its city, especially in the old town. 

But don't you think it wouldn't be stigmatized if it didn't suck so much?  If it took half the time to get downtown than it does sitting in a car, I'm pretty sure folks would stop caring how poor they look passing all the schmucks in traffic.

[wackawacka 165]

People complaining about rail cost.

 

 

[Armybrat 40544]

So, Capital Metro needs more office space and is purchasing the new 182,000 sq/ft building next door to their headquarters in East Austin (3100 EAST 5TH STREET) for $87,000,000. 
Interesting.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/local/2023/06/26/capmetro-approved-87-million-purchase-for-new-east-austin-facility/70358390007/

Edited June 29, 2023 by Armybrat

[MrBig 5182]

No chance this light rail on Riverside will get smashed into by Austin drivers

 

[freyguy 4239]

money will be spent, nothing will happen.

[Armybrat 40544]

So they’re gonna mess up both Woodland & Riverside bridges?

Cousin Joann (RIP) does not approve.