So uh..Austin Subway*, Light Rail Expansions and $3.2 - $10.2 Billion

[Chet Steadman 940]

56 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

We should incentivize businesses to keep working from home. We wouldn’t need additional infrastructure for decades.

This too is a good point.  There are a million reasons CoA should have have tabled this for a later date but this is among the most notable.  Truth is, we have little idea what the typical work day is going to look like once Covid has passed.   Especially in such a city which is both as tech-based and adaptable as Austin.    

In fact, the only thing we can say for near certainty is is a lot more of our workforce are going to be working from home, or at the very least, working drastically different schedules moving forward.  That much is unarguable.  Whether that number is 10% or 50% we don’t yet know but it’s going to be significant. 

The difference between 180,000 vpd on MoPac versus 125,000 vpd is the difference between bumper-to-bumper August 2019 MoPac and cruising down MoPac during the Year 2000 (/insertConanObrien‘InTheYear2000’gif).

Edited August 14, 2020 by Chet Steadman

[BrazilHorn 6822]

No one is riding the train in place today even before Covid. No one is going to ride this one. It will just be a shuttle system for the homeless drug users to get to various tent cities.

Just a complete waste of $ and in no way would I vote to raise my property taxes by 4% to fund it.

COA is completely out of their minds. Have just gone of the rails.(bad pun intended)

[Armybrat 41388]

The CC is certainly taking a huge grab on a lot of things (cutting public safety, the homeless fiasco corruption, and now a massive multi billion project to add to their debt & taxes). Too  bad the citizens won’t remember any of it in November.

[Deej 77806]

Just bring back the Dillo shuttles. I think they could handle the mile and a half route that tunnel will run. 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Deej said:

Just bring back the Dillo shuttles. I think they could handle the mile and a half route that tunnel will run. 

Well yeah, sounds great on paper.  But you see, this train will be underground.  Armadillos can't go underground.  Oh wait...shit.  

I need to learn a new grift.

[gsoda3 3362]

36 minutes ago, Deej said:

Just bring back the Dillo shuttles. I think they could handle the mile and a half route that tunnel will run. 

when i worked downtown i loved the dillo.  never crowded.  took me everywhere i needed to go.  could've been air conditioned but that's a minor quibble.  can't believe it's been almost 20 years. 

[Armybrat 41388]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

Just bring back the Dillo shuttles. I think they could handle the mile and a half route that tunnel will run. 

Yep, they were really convenient when they were in operation.

[atomheartbevo 90636]

3 hours ago, BrazilHorn said:

No one is riding the train in place today even before Covid. No one is going to ride this one. It will just be a shuttle system for the homeless drug users to get to various tent cities.

Just a complete waste of $ and in no way would I vote to raise my property taxes by 4% to fund it.

COA is completely out of their minds. Have just gone of the rails.(bad pun intended)

DAMNIT IF WE CAN MOVE THE TRAINS UNDERGROUND, WE CAN FREE UP MORE SPACE ABOVE GROUND FOR BIKES, BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WILL HAVE TO BUILD BIKE TUNNELS AND DO YOU REALLY WANT BIKE TUNNELS?

[gmr548 16688]

Are you really this dense?
 
The point I’m making is not that the federal government doesn’t spend a fuckton of money, but more that when they are forced to spend a fuckton of money to save the economy, they are less able to spin up the money making machine to blow a billion on a tunnel in a local community in Texas.

Are you really this dense?
 
The point I’m making is not that the federal government doesn’t spend a fuckton of money, but more that when they are forced to spend a fuckton of money to save the economy, they are less able to spin up the money making machine to blow a billion on a tunnel in a local community in Texas.

This kind of pre planned transportation project is the exact kind of thing that would get included in a federal economic recovery package. Especially with Texas as a politically competitive state at this point.

I actually agree with you that we shouldn't plan on federal funds for it. You neever should, as a matter of best practice. You should be prepared to foot the bill if you're going to go through with it. If the feds pick up half the tab then great.

However the hysterics about the federal government spending so much money on covid recovery therefore meaning the project is going to get cut as they continue to spend and will be spending huge sums of money for the foreseeable future is, frankly, silly.

[gmr548 16688]

We should incentivize businesses to keep working from home. We wouldn’t need additional infrastructure for decades.

Absolutely. Good for infrastructure, good for the environment, opportunity for housing, etc.

[TexasEd 8266]

6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

DAMNIT IF WE CAN MOVE THE TRAINS UNDERGROUND, WE CAN FREE UP MORE SPACE ABOVE GROUND FOR BIKES, BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WILL HAVE TO BUILD BIKE TUNNELS AND DO YOU REALLY WANT BIKE TUNNELS?

[atomheartbevo 90636]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

This kind of pre planned transportation project is the exact kind of thing that would get included in a federal economic recovery package. Especially with Texas as a politically competitive state at this point.

We're fucking Austin. It's an election year.  We are a fucking punching bag for certain political persuasions.   If anything, they would hold us up as an example of what happens if the other side wins.  And in some cases, we deserve to be mocked.

They ain't gonna toss shit this way.  We honestly would be better off if we forced our city/county to live within our means.

Edited August 15, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[gmr548 16688]

We're fucking Austin. It's an election year.  We are a fucking punching bag for certain political persuasions.   If anything, they would hold us up as an example of what happens if the other side wins.  And in some cases, we deserve to be mocked.
They ain't gonna toss shit this way.  We honestly would be better off if we forced our city/county to live within our means.

No, but there's not going to be an economic recovery package passed before November either, because we'll still be in the midst of a pandemic.

[ABSR 5369]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:24 AM, bschoolprof said:

Really great of the city to spend 2 4 6 8 $10 billion on an underground homeless shelter for the hot summer months.  It will even come with a novelty train you can ride for a mile or two.  

The battles between those supporting the new $10B underground homeless shelter and those supporting the New $10B bat sanctuary will be epic!

[ABSR 5369]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:24 AM, bschoolprof said:

Really great of the city to spend 2 4 6 8 $10 billion on an underground homeless shelter for the hot summer months.  It will even come with a novelty train you can ride for a mile or two.  

Duplicate

Edited August 15, 2020 by ABSR

[BradInATX 9208]

As someone who moved out of Austin this weekend, I think you guys should definitely spend billions on drilling a subway through limestone. I also look forward to the accomplishments of Councilwoman MacKenzie Kelly.

[Pasken 1310]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:37 PM, atomheartbevo said:

We're fucking Austin. It's an election year.  We are a fucking punching bag for certain political persuasions.   If anything, they would hold us up as an example of what happens if the other side wins.  And in some cases, we deserve to be mocked.

They ain't gonna toss shit this way.  We honestly would be better off if we forced our city/county to live within our means.

The cap metro CEO's approach to this proposal was to design it from the bottom up to qualify for annual grants the federal transportation department gives out. Everything about the structure, funding, schedule, community participation has geared toward a painless and perfect qualification process for that money. Part of that process is to show a local match FIRST. That's how this works.

[Armybrat 41388]

Free government money ftw.

[Texas Jeff 1999]

On 8/13/2020 at 10:05 AM, Pasken said:

The Tunnel will benefit the entire transit system. NOT just downtown. If you want AISD, Manor and other school districts to raise taxes then go work with them and make that a reality. This make believe, "Oh why don't we spend the money on X" is just silly. Austin needs public transit and only you guys could find reasons to be against this proposal. 

Austin ISD has a plan to rebuild almost the entire school district over the next 30 years.  It's not a perfect plan but it is a good plan.  They want to do it without raising the tax rate, with a new bond package every five years or so.  They plan to do it by issuing new bonds as they pay off old bonds, but without jacking up the tax rate.  They were very careful during the last bond to keep the tax rate used for construction unchanged.  If the city keeps raising taxes for billion dollar tunnels and hundreds of millions for bike lanes and sidewalks, the school district will have a harder time later convincing people to raise their taxes even more.

The $460 million on the ballot for bike lanes and sidewalks could build 10 new elementary schools serving about 8000 children, about 10% of AISD.  Half of those would be economically disadvantaged kids sitting in brand new state of the art schools.

The property tax rate can not just climb forever.  People will move to the suburbs to escape the taxes.  The sprawl that the transit folks don't want will happen.

I was pro-public transit until a few years after the Red Line opened.  I was an Austin Monorail supporter way back when.  I don't have faith, after watching the city dig the Waller tunnel, watching the city go over budget on the library and after watching ridership on the Red Line fall short of projections, that the city and Cap Metro can deliver the projected ridership at the proposed cost.  I hope I am wrong.

[HornsOverIthaca 2339]

Reopen and expand the zilker zephyr.

[DanRydell 799]

Austin ISD has a plan to rebuild almost the entire school district over the next 30 years.  It's not a perfect plan but it is a good plan.  They want to do it without raising the tax rate, with a new bond package every five years or so.  They plan to do it by issuing new bonds as they pay off old bonds, but without jacking up the tax rate.  They were very careful during the last bond to keep the tax rate used for construction unchanged.  If the city keeps raising taxes for billion dollar tunnels and hundreds of millions for bike lanes and sidewalks, the school district will have a harder time later convincing people to raise their taxes even more.
The $460 million on the ballot for bike lanes and sidewalks could build 10 new elementary schools serving about 8000 children, about 10% of AISD.  Half of those would be economically disadvantaged kids sitting in brand new state of the art schools.
The property tax rate can not just climb forever.  People will move to the suburbs to escape the taxes.  The sprawl that the transit folks don't want will happen.
I was pro-public transit until a few years after the Red Line opened.  I was an Austin Monorail supporter way back when.  I don't have faith, after watching the city dig the Waller tunnel, watching the city go over budget on the library and after watching ridership on the Red Line fall short of projections, that the city and Cap Metro can deliver the projected ridership at the proposed cost.  I hope I am wrong.

The City of Austin has a lower property tax rate than a lot of the suburbs, including Kyle, Bastrop, Cedar Park, Elgin, Hutto, Lago Vista, Leander, Liberty Hill, Lockhart, Manor, and Pflugerville.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

47 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

The City of Austin has a lower property tax rate than a lot of the suburbs, including Kyle, Bastrop, Cedar Park, Elgin, Hutto, Lago Vista, Leander, Liberty Hill, Lockhart, Manor, and Pflugerville.

Yep, fast growing areas have a lot of new schools and roads to build so they have high tax rates. I pay more as a percentage in round rock than my parents do in Austin. But somehow all I hear about is tHe sOCIaLiST cOMmUnIsT tAxEs from them.

[Steel Shank 9552]

Reopen and expand the zilker zephyr.

Couple of weeks ago I was down at Zilker just above the canoe/kayak rental place on Barton Creek. They were loading the locomotive onto a tow truck. A few days later, they were pulling up the track.

Way to go, city counsel. It’ll be years ( if ever) before we get another train.

[Orange&White 5573]

1. The era of autonomous vehicles is within a generation of being on the road. It is not the panacea that some claim it to be, but it's effects on traffic, car ownership, pollution, and congestion will be monumental.

2. COVID has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that remote working works and employers across the country are signaling that it will become the new norm, which will relieve congestion and morning and afternoon commutes.

3. The Council is spending literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year to house less than 5k people that contribute nothing to the city except additional crime, pollution and nuisance.

4. The federal government just increased the national debt by 23% to $26 TRILLION Dollars in the last 3 months, to save the economy.

 

City of Austin: Let's also spend $7B to build an inefficient, immovable, fixed rail transportation system that provides ridership to less than 4% of the population, during a time when technology and employer culture shifts all point towards a lessening need for antiquated 18th century technology! But it's ok because we're going to ask politely that the broke-ass federal government pay for some of it, but we will only ask them AFTER you Austin voters vote to approve it in full.

 

[Cajun 11772]

21 hours ago, BradInATX said:

As someone who moved out of Austin this weekend

Did the same a couple of months ago.

It's so much better watching the demise from a distance.

[bschoolprof 6341]

9 hours ago, DanRydell said:

The City of Austin has a lower property tax rate than a lot of the suburbs, including Kyle, Bastrop, Cedar Park, Elgin, Hutto, Lago Vista, Leander, Liberty Hill, Lockhart, Manor, and Pflugerville.

I realize you were just responding to the poster's assertions about property tax rates, but rates alone don't tell you much about the actual levy.  Austin has much higher property values than those places, so the average homeowner pays more in city property taxes in Austin versus those places.  

8 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Yep, fast growing areas have a lot of new schools and roads to build so they have high tax rates. I pay more as a percentage in round rock than my parents do in Austin. But somehow all I hear about is tHe sOCIaLiST cOMmUnIsT tAxEs from them.

Austin has much higher property values than round rock. Levy = base x rate.  The total property tax levy per capita in Austin is about 732.  It's about 480 in Round Rock. 

[Armybrat 41388]

9 hours ago, DanRydell said:

The City of Austin has a lower property tax rate than a lot of the suburbs, including Kyle, Bastrop, Cedar Park, Elgin, Hutto, Lago Vista, Leander, Liberty Hill, Lockhart, Manor, and Pflugerville.

Yet the homeowners in all those towns pay less in taxes for the average size house. Not to mention a better quality of life for their families in most of them.
(to reiterate what Prof said)

Edited August 18, 2020 by Armybrat

[DanRydell 799]

Austin has much higher property values than round rock. Levy = base x rate.  The total property tax levy per capita in Austin is about 732.  It's about 480 in Round Rock. 

Of course. My whole point was that it’s property values forcing people into the suburbs, not property tax rates.

[DanRydell 799]

double post

[Armybrat 41388]

5 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

Couple of weeks ago I was down at Zilker just above the canoe/kayak rental place on Barton Creek. They were loading the locomotive onto a tow truck. A few days later, they were pulling up the track.

Way to go, city counsel. It’ll be years ( if ever) before we get another train.

What a travesty. 
The best light rail in the city - gone because... stupid council.

[Guest Lobo]

Fun fact:  For those of us living in the City of Austin but living in A.I.S.D. (40% of the school-age population of the city, BTW).....the entity that uses the highest possible assessment of your property to tax you?  It's not your school district, it's not Central Health, it's not Travis County, it's not City of Austin.  It's Austin Community College.  Mainly their fucking infantile rampage on acquiring real estate despite more and more of their programs going virtual every single fucking year.  It's a criminal enterprise.  

But if this subway plan comes to pass, City of Austin will surpass that and be the highest valuation criminal on our property tax roster.  

[Cajun 11772]

The name "Austin" should really just be retired at this point.  There is no more Austin.

Griftville

Succinct, accurate, and rolls off the tongue.

[CooterBrown 18287]

56 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yet the homeowners in all those towns pay less in taxes for the average size house. Not to mention a better quality of life for their families in most of them.
(to reiterate what Prof said)

A better quality of life is debatable.  I'd fucking blow my brains out if I had to live in the suburbs.

 

[Armybrat 41388]

That’s why I said “families”.

[Deej 77806]

So, are we going to hire those same folks that knocked out that Mo-Pac tunnel in record time? 

[JohnLocke 115]

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

So, are we going to hire those same folks that knocked out that Mo-Pac tunnel in record time? 

Why, yes, of course we are. Why wouldn't we? How else can we come in years late with double the price?

[DanRydell 799]

That’s why I said “families”.

Plenty of us with families also think suburbia is a total fucking hellscape.

[BabaYaga 15623]

4 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

Plenty of us with families also think suburbia is a total fucking hellscape.

Isn't having a choice fun...

[Armybrat 41388]

34 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

Plenty of us with families also think suburbia is a total fucking hellscape.

Yes, some people prefer living in beehives full of bum camps and high crime.

[Dahobbs 18304]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:57 AM, Chet Steadman said:

This too is a good point.  There are a million reasons CoA should have have tabled this for a later date but this is among the most notable.  Truth is, we have little idea what the typical work day is going to look like once Covid has passed.   Especially in such a city which is both as tech-based and adaptable as Austin.    

In fact, the only thing we can say for near certainty is is a lot more of our workforce are going to be working from home, or at the very least, working drastically different schedules moving forward.  That much is unarguable.  Whether that number is 10% or 50% we don’t yet know but it’s going to be significant. 

The difference between 180,000 vpd on MoPac versus 125,000 vpd is the difference between bumper-to-bumper August 2019 MoPac and cruising down MoPac during the Year 2000 (/insertConanObrien‘InTheYear2000’gif).

I would think that now is actually the perfect time to do this sort of disruptive construction. Less people are out and about now. I don't understand waiting to get something done until it is the most inconvenient.  

[BabaYaga 15623]

28 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I would think that now is actually the perfect time to do this sort of disruptive construction. Less people are out and about now. I don't understand waiting to get something done until it is the most inconvenient.  

Good timing on a bad idea doesn't make the idea any better

[bschoolprof 6341]

I would think that now is actually the perfect time to do this sort of disruptive construction. Less people are out and about now. I don't understand waiting to get something done until it is the most inconvenient.  

If passed, construction on the light rail will be in the mid to late 20s. We’ll all be dead or cured of rona by then.

[Orange&White 5573]

54 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I would think that now is actually the perfect time to do this sort of disruptive construction. Less people are out and about now. I don't understand waiting to get something done until it is the most inconvenient.  

They are anticipating it taking ten years to complete, which means it will actually take 20-25. Corona traffic will be done in the next 6 months. Pushing through a terrible $7B project because of a temporary lightened traffic load seems as idiotic as the actual proposal.

[AUS-97HORN 12050]

On 8/17/2020 at 9:41 AM, BradInATX said:

As someone who moved out of Austin this weekend, I think you guys should definitely spend billions on drilling a subway through limestone. I also look forward to the accomplishments of Councilwoman MacKenzie Kelly.

username no longer valid.   

[Cajun 11772]

Reported

[Guest Lobo]

I think it stands for Ass-To-Xanax 

or in my bedroom, Tuesday’s.  

[Samson's Wig 3230]

18 hours ago, DanRydell said:

The City of Austin has a lower property tax rate than a lot of the suburbs, including Kyle, Bastrop, Cedar Park, Elgin, Hutto, Lago Vista, Leander, Liberty Hill, Lockhart, Manor, and Pflugerville.

Yes, but as rapidly growing communities they can see where their tax dollars are going.  The net benefit is staring them in the face.  In Austin?  Shit just keeps getting worse. 

[Dnaguy 12612]

18 hours ago, Lobo said:

I think it stands for Ass-To-Xanax 

or in my bedroom, Tuesday’s.  

Is Ass-To-Xanax the new butt chugging?

Asking for a friend.

[Bolero88 286]

23 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Yet the homeowners in all those towns pay less in taxes for the average size house. Not to mention a better quality of life for their families in most of them.
(to reiterate what Prof said)

Nope, that's completely relative. Not everyone wants what you want. 

[ChickenSandwich 9952]

On 8/18/2020 at 8:21 AM, Armybrat said:

Yet the homeowners in all those towns pay less in taxes for the average size house. Not to mention a better quality of life for their families in most of them.
(to reiterate what Prof said)

And homeowners in Austin who have been in their homes for 10-15 years pay ever increasing taxes on profits (home value ) they don’t actually receive making them more cash poor each year until they are forced to make a choice to stay or sell. This is through no action on their part, just a victim of low supply and high demand. 
 

City keeps getting a raise from their existing inventory of homeowners regardless of action on said homeowners part, whole the homeowner loses more money each month with little to no increase or benefit. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by ChickenSandwich