The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[elfenix 34,240]

Schiff is good at this.  I feel like sending a nice email to him. 
Has anyone else contacted any Reps or Senators, and did you get any response?

I called Sylvia Garcia's Houston office while she was speaking and left a message asking that they call a bribe a bribe. My congress critter is ol eyepatch so I doubt contacting him makes a shit.

[elfenix 34,240]

Man, I hope you are right.  The thing that keeps niggling at me, though.  The splinter agitating my brain...

The information you presented is all available to the GOP.  They absolutely know the data you presented and more.  With those numbers, the GOP knows they are willfully committing suicide.  Not just for 2020, but for a decade or more.  But not a one of them seems the least bit concerned.

That only makes sense if those numbers regarding public sentiment don't fucking matter.  If the influencing that was solicited and provided in 2016 has been iterated and improved upon to make popular sentiment irrelevant.

The GOP lied us into a war which cost thousands of American lives, maimed and wounded tens of thousands more service members (and their families), cost us trillions of dollars (a figure that keeps going up, btw), lost us international credibility, and then they charged headlong into the biggest economic collapse most of us have known, plotted to continue it with completely asinine fiscal policy, and they were completely out of power for all of 4 months (thanks, filibuster!).

So, given that history, why worry?

[Bruh Man 3,160]

Just look at the disgusting venom towards a Purple Heart recipient in the replies to this tweet. How the R's have cornered the market on patriotism is beyond me. How this pencil-necked dweeb who never served is able to say this about Vindman without getting his glasses kicked into his skull is infuriating.

[RPM 26,320]

1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

How this pencil-necked dweeb who never served is able to say this about Vindman without getting his glasses kicked into his skull is infuriating.

Chickenhawk is the GOP standard.

[Bookman 4,639]

20 hours ago, horn4life said:

So another day of Republican Senators pretending to listen, obvious facts presented and dismissed as meaningless because of a singular reason, an (R) behind the name.  I guess the only thing I can take heart in is that if the shoe was on the other foot the Dems would break the ice and defect in support of honesty and fairness. The big question for 2020 is going to be do young people and non-whites show up to the polls?  Will the uneducated whites keep have a huge turnout in support of Trump and shore up underwater Senatorial polling? A landslide in November, is becoming a distinct possibility, and the reason is the clear unfairness and rigged nature of the Senate trial. 

Here is a Pew Research snapshot of where things stand right now. https://www.people-press.org/2020/01/22/by-a-narrow-margin-americans-say-senate-trial-should-result-in-trumps-removal/  When the GOP votes straight down party lines to prevent a single piece of subpoenaed information from being allowed to be presented in a "trail?" Corruption will be what the image of the GOP will become to the majority of the country.

White educated women are gone for the GOP this cycle. That's not gonna change, just differ by how strong a tilt to the Dems. But the key is that right now people under 30 believe by a 63% -35% that Donald Trump should be removed from office.  WITHOUT any witnesses or facts presented voluntarily by the white house. These are the widest numbers by a large, large margin demographically against Trump and these are the voters of the future. When the GOP closes ranks and protects Trump from a fair trial these numbers will permanently transfer to the GOP.  These numbers are BEFORE the "trial" actually began.

Trump was NEVER going to be removed from office. What is happening now is that the Republican Party is cementing the view in the minds of educated and young voters in particular that they are corrupt.  Purely and completely corrupt.  Now this is not to say that a solid 41-43 percent of all voters think the GOP should prevent even a single scrap of paper be presented by the Trump administration in this "trial."  It's easy to see the corruption if you don't purposefully blind yourself.  I believe that a majority of Americans still have a sense of need for fairness.  I also have always felt that if the DEMs framed the trail as a fight for fairness and search for truth it would be a hard narrative to counter for the GOP.  One more day we are going to see a simply plea to find the truth.  In two days the argument will be, Trump should not be required to do anything but what he wants to do. The GOP will stand firmly behind this assertion and Moscow Mitch will have presided over a perfect Soviet style "trial."  Of course facts will trickle out over the Summer and Fall showing the clear fraud, and Trump's guilt will only become more, not less apparent.

And 2020 will be a wipeout. As the tilt from the educated whites, the young, and the non-white will surge a few percent.  And that solid Trump 43% will see it coming in the Fall and Republican enthusiasm will wane.  More importantly the young people of our Nation will view themselves for years as anything but Republican.

All of this was very predictable in 2015.

[Goredho 17,406]

9 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This.  My other theory is that they would rather be voted out than exposed for their illegal funding via the NRA from Russia (and god knows what other foreign entities).  If that angle is not investigated when/if a Dem president comes to power, I will lose my damn mind.

 

5 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i want to highlight this great post.

i think republicans are all in on this shit, but they are thinking tactically rather than strategically. 

they want to win this battle rather than win the war. they are old, they are crooks and they want to win today because tomorrow doesn't matter because they will be dead. there is no long game because they got theirs. there is no desire to try and win over the country. there is only today. but they do not care about tomorrow. look at them. old white dudes. yesterday is so much more important to them than tomorrow. 

 

4 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nah, they are trying to win the war. It comes through disenfranchisement and election rigging. And it will work. They've long been testing the limits of what is possible. It turns out the sky is the limit. 

They could rig swing state votes, get caught doing it, and Trump will still be sworn in while the GOP in the Senate feign ignorance and Dems do little more than write sternly worded letters. They could jail Dems after that. Still the populace would do nothing.  Well, maybe there would be a peaceful march or something.  Really, they could even declare martial law and start rounding up people tomorrow. Nothing.  The threshold for reaction has been strategically pushed back. There is no fight in the American dog anymore. 

And there are plenty of younger shitbags ready to take over. There's at least 100 Gaetz' in every town in America. Ready to run unopposed. 

I do hope you're right, but I see a different picture. America is going to go out with a whimper.  

 

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

The GOP lied us into a war which cost thousands of American lives, maimed and wounded tens of thousands more service members (and their families), cost us trillions of dollars (a figure that keeps going up, btw), lost us international credibility, and then they charged headlong into the biggest economic collapse most of us have known, plotted to continue it with completely asinine fiscal policy, and they were completely out of power for all of 4 months (thanks, filibuster!).

So, given that history, why worry?

So as we all focus on the events of the day (hour?), I think its easy to lose sight of the slower-moving but monumental shift that is happening beneath all of these political machinations.

In 15 years, a scant 4 presidential terms, whites will no longer be the voting majority in the US.

Never before in our nations history will that have been true.  Ever after it will be.  That's a big fucking deal.  That is an existential threat if you are the beneficiary of the traditional power structure.  You have to secure your position against that monumental change that is looming.  You have to do it right fucking now.  There is no time for the political pendulum to swing away and back to you before it may *never* swing back to you.  You will live in a different fucking world.  A world where the odds are not stacked in your favor and where, by all rights, you would have to answer for 250+ years of chicanery and privilege.

That is what I think is going on.  The hand behind this doomsday conservative movement are the American oligarchs who are facing that reckoning.  If they fail to engineer a way to stay in power beyond that tectonic voting population shift, they are kings dying without heirs.  Their reign and their lineage is lost forever.  They will raze the kingdom before they allow that to happen.  The current members of the GOP are simply the visible operational arm of that.

Its 4am, I'm fucking high, and nothing else makes as much sense to me as that.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

That is what I think is going on.  The hand behind this doomsday conservative movement are the American oligarchs who are facing that reckoning.  If they fail to engineer a way to stay in power beyond that tectonic voting population shift, they are kings dying without heirs.  Their reign and their lineage is lost forever.  They will raze the kingdom before they allow that to happen.  The current members of the GOP are simply the visible operational arm of that.

Its 4am, I'm fucking high, and nothing else makes as much sense to me as that.

I'm torn here because what you say is what I fear. I know that the RNC has been subsumed by the Trump campaign- he filed for reelection just after the inauguration and has been running ever since. This question is naive, but did he come up with that plan on his own? His Russian friends suggest it to him? Or somewhat more sinisterly (as if that's not bad enough) did it come from within the establishment? I don't want to believe that to be true, and the fight at the beginning between his campaign and the RNC for $$ suggests that perhaps it is not. Regardless, his campaign has subsumed the RNC and with his campaign controlling the voter data which down ballot Rs depend on, they must either comply, fly blind, or quit. Many have quit, but as @FondrenRoad pointed out, there are hundreds of Gaetzs out there (heck I read that Aggie has reached over 500,000 'former students') and according to people I know on that campus, the TPUSA and Prager push there is strong. This also doesn't include any outside 'help' that incumbents may receive due to interference that assists their reelection.

The indecision comes from supporting your premise but at the same moment wondering if Trump's campaign (led by Parscales) who has the data is on top of things. In other words, do they know something 'we' don't? Specifically regarding the interference mentioned above, polling locations/suppression, etc. There are still many months to come. What else is in their bag of tricks?

 

Back to the trial. As much as I enjoy listening to House Manager Adam Schiff, et al, I had to turn it off. It is admirable but sad that it will be for nought.

[4th&Five 41,550]

It’s just about tv ratings for this guy. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

He can always turn the plane around and head back to DC if he'd like to appear before the Senate.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Want to add this. They must have something in the works. Shokin & Lutsenko & Putin came up with something for them?

 

[TexArcher 37,774]

13 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

It’s just about tv ratings for this guy. 

Well, if you'd stop abusing power, obstructing justice, being a Russian puppet, and using the presidency to enrich yourself and your friends, maybe you wouldn't need prime time for your lawyers to defend you.  

What time slot did FDR's lawyers get?  Lincoln's?

[Steamboat1874 4,062]

18 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Why do you characterize it is as an accusation?  The fact that the Ukrainian government has a Nazi problem has been reported everywhere, and isn't some baseless conspiracy theory (like the "Trump is in cahoots with Putin" conspiracy theory, for instance).  US military support for Ukrainian Neo-Nazis was such a concern that it actually spurred Congress to attempt to limit the Administration's ability from providing said support.  You would think such a scandal would be more newsworthy than some farcical impeachment trial the result of which is foreordained (something even the impeachment humpers itt will readily admit), but here we are.  

There are more "Nazis" in the US than anywhere else in the world dumbass.

[David Dennison 18,860]

22 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Well, if you'd stop abusing power, obstructing justice, being a Russian puppet, and using the presidency to enrich yourself and your friends, maybe you wouldn't need prime time for your lawyers to defend you.  

What time slot did FDR's lawyers get?  Lincoln's?

No one is watching anyway. MSNBC's and Fox's ratings are lower than their regular programming.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

No one is watching anyway. MSNBC's and Fox's ratings are lower than their regular programming.

Wonder what CSpan ratings are? They seem to have a following if their phone calls are anything to go by.

[Nivek 16,929]

6 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

Just look at the disgusting venom towards a Purple Heart recipient in the replies to this tweet. How the R's have cornered the market on patriotism is beyond me. How this pencil-necked dweeb who never served is able to say this about Vindman without getting his glasses kicked into his skull is infuriating.

They didn't corner shit.  They just claimed they did and only their idiot base believed it.  Their idiot base will believe a pile of dogshit is steak if their leadership says it.  They don't love the troops or give a shit about them.  It is all a farce.

[DixonHur 11,304]

3 hours ago, Goredho said:

In 15 years, a scant 4 presidential terms, whites will no longer be the voting majority in the US.

Doesn't matter as long as we have the electoral college because minorities tend already live in Dem strongholds.

The only change will be the GOP losing the popular vote by a larger margin.

[Pasken 1,309]

 

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

29 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Doesn't matter as long as we have the electoral college because minorities tend already live in Dem strongholds.

The only change will be the GOP losing the popular vote by a larger margin.

This is true, until Texas flips.  I don't know how long it will take, but it's going to happen.  The Electoral College's days are numbered once that occurs, IMO.

[heso 2,794]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Doesn't matter as long as we have the electoral college because minorities tend already live in Dem strongholds.

The only change will be the GOP losing the popular vote by a larger margin.

There are only 11 states that are registering more Republicans than Democrats. 
 

TN, OK, UT, AR, KS, NE, ID, WV, SD, AK, WY

Population rank:

16, 28, 30, 34, 36, 38, 39, 40, 47, 49, 50

Other than Tennessee, low population states with low growth, in some cases negative growth. 

And in the case of Texas and South Carolina you have Dems being registered at a better than 2:1 rate. 

From the last election there isn’t a single blue state that is increasing its Reputation ratio but at least 10 red states that are increasingly dem. And almost all 10 of those (MT, ND) are in the top 1/3 for population.

collectively, those 10 states represent 154 EC votes.

Edited January 24, 2020 by heso

[bolverk 29,672]

Surprised this hasn't already been posted. It's the most in-depth timeline I've seen that shows how Parnas came into the Trump/GOP fold. Normally, I don't go to USA Today for my investigative reporting, but this is good.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/01/24/lev-parnas-ex-giuliani-ally-could-key-figure-trump-impeachment/4531125002/

One thing that it can't explain is how Parnas's broke ass first started making donations. What was the source of that money?

[4th&Five 41,550]

 

[yoladu 4,094]

6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

release the full transcript!!

[4th&Five 41,550]

 

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

If anything mattered anymore, there's your smoking gun.

[heso 2,794]

8 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If anything mattered anymore, there's your smoking gun.

If we’ve learned anything in the last 4 years it’s that nothing matters, especially not recordings of things Trump says. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

13 hours ago, miguelito said:

Schiff is good at this.  I feel like sending a nice email to him. 

Has anyone else contacted any Reps or Senators, and did you get any response?

yes, canned ones. I don't think any reply I've ever received was personal

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

They didn't corner shit.  They just claimed they did and only their idiot base believed it.  Their idiot base will believe a pile of dogshit is steak if their leadership says it.  They don't love the troops or give a shit about them.  It is all a farce.

also, patriotism is dumb - at least blind patriotism. waving a flag and chanting USA! USA! USA! is not patriotism. 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

4 minutes ago, heso said:

If we’ve learned anything in the last 4 years it’s that nothing matters, especially not recordings of things Trump says. 

you’re gonna trust your fucking ears over what we’re telling you?  please. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Surprised this hasn't already been posted. It's the most in-depth timeline I've seen that shows how Parnas came into the Trump/GOP fold. Normally, I don't go to USA Today for my investigative reporting, but this is good.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/01/24/lev-parnas-ex-giuliani-ally-could-key-figure-trump-impeachment/4531125002/

One thing that it can't explain is how Parnas's broke ass first started making donations. What was the source of that money?

I skimmed the article but I see no mention of the oligarch, Firtash, mentioned but I may have missed it? He is in Vienna and is fighting extradition to the US to face criminal charges .I believe he gave Parnas a loan but I'll have to locate a source for where I saw that, or @triplehorn or one of the other info sleuths  may have it.

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yes, canned ones. I don't think any reply I've ever received was personal

I have called both the DC and Texas offices of both Senators. I have spoken with their office staff and left messages on their machines. Have  never emailed or written. However, when I called Cruz' office this morning, the voice mailbox was full, so I will have to write. Wouldn't surprise me if they leave it full from here on out and don't erase anything.

[Captainant 27,667]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I have called both the DC and Texas offices of both Senators. I have spoken with their office staff and left messages on their machines. Have  never emailed or written. However, when I called Cruz' office this morning, the voice mailbox was full, so I will have to write. Wouldn't surprise me if they leave it full from here on out and don't erase anything.

I called Cruz's office a couple of days ago, was treated rudely, and the person taking my call said they didn't even take any notes to pass along. They're all fuckers who'd really rather not deal with the underling class.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

They're all fuckers who'd really rather not deal with the underling class.

Well, there's a surprise.

[Tuco 5,076]

26 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

also, patriotism is dumb - at least blind patriotism. waving a flag and chanting USA! USA! USA! is not patriotism. 

One of my favorite movies is "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" because it does a great job of delineating two types of patriotism.  In the first act, Mr. Smith is a 100%, flag waving, monument visiting patriot. He sees the country as some paragon of virtue.  In the second act, he is disillusioned.  In the third act, recognizes that real patriotism requires work, and fighting, and sacrificing, against the corrupt elements in our country.  Our country is only great by recognizing our flaws and fighting to correct them.  It's such a well structured character arch and a great message not to be forgotten. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

1 hour ago, heso said:

There are only 11 states that are registering more Republicans than Democrats. 
 

TN, OK, UT, AR, KS, NE, ID, WV, SD, AK, WY

Population rank:

16, 28, 30, 34, 36, 38, 39, 40, 47, 49, 50

Other than Tennessee, low population states with low growth, in some cases negative growth. 

And in the case of Texas and South Carolina you have Dems being registered at a better than 2:1 rate. 

From the last election there isn’t a single blue state that is increasing its Reputation ratio but at least 10 red states that are increasingly dem. And almost all 10 of those (MT, ND) are in the top 1/3 for population.

collectively, those 10 states represent 154 EC votes.

That's also 22 senate seats, unfortunately. 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

22 minutes ago, Tuco said:

One of my favorite movies is "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" because it does a great job of delineating two types of patriotism.  In the first act, Mr. Smith is a 100%, flag waving, monument visiting patriot. He sees the country as some paragon of virtue.  In the second act, he is disillusioned.  In the third act, recognizes that real patriotism requires work, and fighting, and sacrificing, against the corrupt elements in our country.  Our country is only great by recognizing our flaws and fighting to correct them.  It's such a well structured character arch and a great message not to be forgotten. 

incorrect.

patriotism can only be achieved by wearing a baseball cap with a sportcoat.  if the cap has usa on it, that's bonus patriotism.

[Pasken 1,309]

There is no way Trump's defense team uses more than 4 of the 24 hours allowed to them, right?

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

5 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I'm torn here because what you say is what I fear. I know that the RNC has been subsumed by the Trump campaign- he filed for reelection just after the inauguration and has been running ever since. This question is naive, but did he come up with that plan on his own? His Russian friends suggest it to him? Or somewhat more sinisterly (as if that's not bad enough) did it come from within the establishment? I don't want to believe that to be true, and the fight at the beginning between his campaign and the RNC for $$ suggests that perhaps it is not. Regardless, his campaign has subsumed the RNC and with his campaign controlling the voter data which down ballot Rs depend on, they must either comply, fly blind, or quit. Many have quit, but as @FondrenRoad pointed out, there are hundreds of Gaetzs out there (heck I read that Aggie has reached over 500,000 'former students') and according to people I know on that campus, the TPUSA and Prager push there is strong. This also doesn't include any outside 'help' that incumbents may receive due to interference that assists their reelection.

The indecision comes from supporting your premise but at the same moment wondering if Trump's campaign (led by Parscales) who has the data is on top of things. In other words, do they know something 'we' don't? Specifically regarding the interference mentioned above, polling locations/suppression, etc. There are still many months to come. What else is in their bag of tricks?

 

Back to the trial. As much as I enjoy listening to House Manager Adam Schiff, et al, I had to turn it off. It is admirable but sad that it will be for nought.

I've been saying for a while that one of two things is at play here...Either they know they are fucked and are in the process of looting what they can and stripping the proverbial fixtures and wiring out of the house OR they already know the fix is in and they don't have to worry about reelection. 

[Captainant 27,667]

6 minutes ago, Pasken said:

There is no way Trump's defense team uses more than 4 of the 24 hours allowed to them, right?

There's been a theory and some reporting that the GOP is conspiring w/ the defense to have them wrap today, closing discussion and vote tomorrow, done by Monday. Wouldn't shock me at this point, because none of our senators have a goddamn spine or balls to stand up to trump.

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

10 minutes ago, Pasken said:

There is no way Trump's defense team uses more than 4 of the 24 hours allowed to them, right?

They'll use about an hour actually defending Trump and the remaining 23 they will just read out zerohedge articles and post youtube videos claiming they are evidence that Obama, Hillary, and Biden are the true corrupt politicians.  

[henrygandorf 29,191]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

There's been a theory and some reporting that the GOP is conspiring w/ the defense to have them wrap today, closing discussion and vote tomorrow, done by Monday. Wouldn't shock me at this point, because none of our senators have a goddamn spine or balls to stand up to trump.

they don't start until tomorrow.  i guess they don't have to use any of their time, but that's not the best look for people defending that this is a "fair trial".

in theory, they could go for a few hours tomorrow, state that they don't need any more time, then vote on monday?  i'm not sure what the rules are.

[Biff Tannen 45,683]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Fired?  More like fired upon.

[Biff Tannen 45,683]

Why in the motherfuck do they still start with a prayer?

[Pasken 1,309]

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

they don't start until tomorrow.  i guess they don't have to use any of their time, but that's not the best look for people defending that this is a "fair trial".

in theory, they could go for a few hours tomorrow, state that they don't need any more time, then vote on monday?  i'm not sure what the rules are.

There is a period of Q and A from the senators to the legal teams after the opening arguments are done.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

i love any powerpoint slide that says "bogus explanation" in the corner.

[Lurch 5,930]

One of my favorite movies is "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" because it does a great job of delineating two types of patriotism.  In the first act, Mr. Smith is a 100%, flag waving, monument visiting patriot. He sees the country as some paragon of virtue.  In the second act, he is disillusioned.  In the third act, recognizes that real patriotism requires work, and fighting, and sacrificing, against the corrupt elements in our country.  Our country is only great by recognizing our flaws and fighting to correct them.  It's such a well structured character arch and a great message not to be forgotten. 

Spoiler alert!

[TwiceHorn 31,469]

55 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

incorrect.

patriotism can only be achieved by wearing a baseball cap with a sportcoat.  if the cap has usa on it, that's bonus patriotism.

Don't forget the flag pin on your lapel.  Or a flag plus some incomprehensible maga or nazi logo.

[jimmyjazz 45,948]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

you’re gonna trust your fucking ears over what we’re telling you?  please. 

Welcome to high school.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't forget the flag pin on your lapel.  Or a flag plus some incomprehensible maga or nazi logo.

i've said it before, but it bears repeating.  if the existence of trump forever ends the cap with sportcoat look, then it will almost be worth it.

not many folks rocked the charlie chaplin mustache after hitler.  and i've already brought up hitler twice today, so i need to slow down.  godwin's law and all that.

[Mdhorn 5,949]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

I called Cruz's office a couple of days ago, was treated rudely, and the person taking my call said they didn't even take any notes to pass along. They're all fuckers who'd really rather not deal with the underling class.

Cruz wouldn't have campaigned at all except Beto's rising popularity made him. 

[TwiceHorn 31,469]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i've said it before, but it bears repeating.  if the existence of trump forever ends the cap with sportcoat look, then it will almost be worth it.

not many folks rocked the charlie chaplin mustache after hitler.  and i've already brought up hitler twice today, so i need to slow down.  godwin's law and all that.

Flag pins on politicians and especially prosecutors have irked me for a long time.  Yes, they are in public service, but they usually have an ulterior motive as well, and it's emblematic of their self-righteousness, which is usually a dangerous thing.

(something about forums and this one in particular make me really bad about it's/its).

Edited January 24, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[elfenix 34,240]

11 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

 

stealing mac brown's butterteeth