The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

Born to Run · January 25, 2020

The whole shadow diplomacy outside the State Department is bothersome as hell and is the primary current underlying this whole thing.
I dont really think there's any statutory crime analogous to that, but I think its definitely bad business and should be impeachable.
I am also kind of unsure how you "prove" it other than circumstantially.

Rather easier when the defendant admits to the crime as does his lawyer on camera

RomaVicta · January 25, 2020

He lost me at head on a pike.

Truth hurts, you fearful, shameless, criminal fuckwads. If you were not moved by Schiff, you were never mobile to begin with. You're entrenched in a criminal organization, and I hope you hang for it.

They're fighting a rear guard retreat hoping to last long enough to escape jail and salt away the cash. They're also likely blind to the fact that their hold on the majority of the people is long gone.They'll happily open the door to a nasty little guerrilla war as long as it saves their worthless skins.

Nothing bad enough can happen to Moscow Mitch and his crew of miscreants.

TwiceHorn · January 25, 2020

8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

They're also likely blind to the fact that their hold on the majority of the people is long gone

I think it is exactly this that drives them. They have no idea how to get elected and have a tenuous last grasp at holding office and power based entirely on whatever appeal Trump provides.

JimmyJames · January 25, 2020

GOP gonna GOP.

The whole sham is a coverup to coverup their criminal behavior.

Time to vote the criminals out.

horn4life · January 25, 2020

7 hours ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

..:and no Dems will be listening to the rebuttal either.

I was arguing with a guy about fishing the other day, and he kept insisting on talking about birds. The Dems will be listening intently for any defense of Trumps actual actions and deeds. But all you are gonna here are some very VERY loudly spoken words.... about birds....

bolverk · January 25, 2020

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think it is exactly this that drives them. They have no idea how to get elected and have a tenuous last grasp at holding office and power based entirely on whatever appeal Trump provides.

I dunno. That might be the case of the dimmest bulbs, but let's look at the record in Texas as an example.

Facts:

In the last round of redistricting, it was proven that Republicans had drawn new districts to intentionally discriminate against non-Anglo Texans.

One participant in that redistricting process (the guy who died in NC and whose daughter released the records due to shame) was the architect who proposed the Census citizenship question on the premise that it would supress Latino response rates even among actual real live citizens.

Republican legislators in the last session refused to allot any funding toward increasing participation among Texans to participate in this next Census count. There was a proposal to spend $50 million, but it was shot down. Meanwhile, California is spending $200 million. While that sounds like a lot, it is a mere pittance in comparison to the risk of potentially losing $billions lost in federal funding which would hurt all Texans.

Then, there's the whole voter ID issue.

The legislators themselves might be dumbasses who don't see the bigger picture, but I assure you the strategists are not. There is a clear effort to to maintain Anglo control as long as possible in this state as well as the nation.

They are using fear tactics to drum up the beat that non-Anglos are to be feared so as to drive up tribalistic xenophobia while also using their existing power to disenfranchise "minorities" to buy them some time while they can find new wedge issues for the future.

They have a clear overall strategy for developing a new stealth Jim Crow to maintain power. All the above facts I stated are only noisy tactics - each of which has become effective in dividing our democracy and disenfranchising our denizens.

TexArcher · January 25, 2020

Murkowski pretended to be open to witnesses, knowing that she'd find a "that's where he lost me" moment.

"See, we tried to be reasonable! We went into it with an open mind. But who can go along with these people?"

Fuck you, fraud. You're just another sycophant suckling at the power teet and anyone with half a brain can see it. Fortunately, you live in Akaska, so you don't have to worry about that.

Bruh Man · January 25, 2020

henrygandorf · January 25, 2020

shit 2-3 is 2-3 higher than i would’ve thought.

Horn Dog · January 25, 2020

Good. At this point I want the GOP to vote to not allow witnesses or documents. Just get them on record voting for a full sham trial and acquittal. DOTARD was never getting removed anyway. Bolton or Malvaney were never gonna drop any bombshells either..they were gonna just refuse to answer or give vague, “I don’t recall” responses that would of provided just enough cover for the GOP. The truth will continue to drip out regardless. Bolton will release his book as will others who will want to cash in. A full blown and obvious GOP coverup is better politically for the dems, and gives them a chance at flipping the senate which is probably more important then the presidency.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Horn Dog

horncyclist · January 25, 2020

36 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Good. At this point I want the GOP to vote to not allow witnesses or documents. Just get them on record voting for a full sham trial and acquittal. DOTARD was never getting removed anyway. Bolton or Malvaney were never gonna drop any bombshells either..they were gonna just refuse to answer or give vague, “I don’t recall” responses that would of provided just enough cover for the GOP. The truth will continue to drip out regardless. Bolton will release his book as will others who will want to cash in. A full blown and obvious GOP coverup is better politically for the dems, and gives them a chance at flipping the senate which is probably more important then the presidency.

Yeah, I think that's right. Though I think Bolton would have given them something. With each of them--and others--it would be hard to question them without documents.

I just hope Democrats continue to fight the political fight effectively. Trump corruptly abused his power for personal gain, jeopardizing national security in the process, and then covered it up. The republicans, house and Senate, became complicit in that coverup by refusing to seek the truth. Say it again and and again and again. Then let the truth keep trickling out and vote them all out in November. A democratic president and Susan Collins and McSally gone (at a minimum). Yes, please. They should also keep pushing for the documents, which I think will speak for themselves.

JimmyJames · January 25, 2020

6 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Murkowski pretended to be open to witnesses, knowing that she'd find a "that's where he lost me" moment.

"See, we tried to be reasonable! We went into it with an open mind. But who can go along with these people?"

Fuck you, fraud. You're just another sycophant suckling at the power teet and anyone with half a brain can see it. Fortunately, you live in Akaska, so you don't have to worry about that.

Yeah that’s their trial balloon talking point bullshit. Not gonna work assholes. We see right through it. No witnesses, no trial.

Bateshorn · January 25, 2020

I mean: the vote was always gonna be 53-47. Possibly 52-48 if they release Collins in the hopes of holding on to her seat, although that could cause LePage to primary her.

Maybe Alexander will develop a conscious, but I’ve seen no evidence to date.

Gardner is done, he’ll vote with the GOP to maintain his employment prospects after he loses. The rest will turn hard to the right and hope their base can carry them.

Beyond the fact that Schiff was just quoting the President, he’s also playing to his base to ensure they turn out and remain energized. This thing has always been a done deal.

Captainant · January 25, 2020

I wonder what will happen if a senator goes rogue and just starts reading evidence into the record. What then?

Mrs Whiggins · January 25, 2020

Look at Lindsey playing make-believe he is impartial:

JimmyJames · January 25, 2020

Ominous sign. The corporate media, and I’m not talking about Fox, has pivoted to full on manufacturing consent mode. It appears the “trial” will be a sham.

JimmyJames · January 25, 2020

Even our resident trolls have gone radio silent. There’s a reason for that. No need.

deech · January 25, 2020

Brisket called his shot a few years back. I don't want to call this next week the most important week in the history of this country, but it's pretty damn important. I don't care if they don't impeach, but failing to get the documents is treason IMHO.

tx 3 putt · January 25, 2020

8 hours ago, bolverk said:

They have a clear overall strategy for developing a new stealth Jim Crow to maintain power.

The Trump Supreme Court is ready to rubber stamp it

horn4life · January 25, 2020

The rock and the hard place are coming much more clearly into view for Republicans. As I have said over and over, I still believe that the majority of Americans have a sense of fair play. The Rock for the GOP is that a very large majority thinks the "trial" should not be a sham. The hard place is that you will not be able to help the President nor the GOP with any additional factual information being provided.

When you have 66% of folks thinking there should be more fact finding in search of the truth with witnesses and document, and 51% willing to remove and impeach before an honest search for truth? The only path that is going to be open is to simply go all in, and simply dismiss. Allow a single witness to be called and Trump's Presidency will be in incredibly grave peril. The white house knows this, and McConnell knows this. It's time go go down with the ship, on the wrong side of history.

Mrs Whiggins · January 25, 2020

The weather has been perfect for the lanai this week, but given that I'm in agreement with you @deech and @tx 3 putt and @horn4life (and most especially for the early warning @Brisketexan)I am moving back to the ledge. The weather on the ledge should be wind and rain and sleet with the temperature hovering at just that point where you are so miserably damp and cold that you wish it would just freeze and turn to snow even though you know you'll die of hypothermia before that happens. The death of the Republic isn't going to be a white hot flame of war between parties, it's going to be the silent and cold shuddering of a last breath.

Hyperbole, perhaps, but it sure feels real.

triplehorn · January 25, 2020

surprise, surprise. "Putting heads on pikes" is an established part of Trump's lexicon (emphasis on the con).

Someone should remind Senator Murkowski before she suffocates from her own faux indignation and remains blind to overt jury tampering.

Edited January 25, 2020 by triplehorn

horncyclist · January 25, 2020

Y'all watching this bullshit?

Mrs Whiggins · January 25, 2020

^^they don't try and defend it (the statement) because it is indefensible. In this case, even the plausible deniability is lacking. Although, to their credit: as long as the GOP senators have been aboard the Trump train, they do not seem to have gone full Phase 4 yet. When everything starts today and they begin with, "yeah, he said it so what?" then you might wish to bring the beverage of your choice to the ledge.

Jack Straw · January 25, 2020

59 minutes ago, deech said:

Brisket called his shot a few years back. I don't want to call this next week the most important week in the history of this country, but it's pretty damn important. I don't care if they don't impeach, but failing to get the documents is treason IMHO.

it is, and any vote for any Republican is support for and complicity in that treason.

horncyclist · January 25, 2020

So if he was so concerned about corruption on July 25, what did Zelensky do to address that concern? And why did the concern suddenly manifest itself when Zelensky was reluctant to make an announcement about a sham investigation? This is awful. GOP Senators might try to take over like they did from that lawyer lady during the Kavanaugh hearings. Let Linsdsey throw a fit and they all walk out.

immamac · January 25, 2020

I turned it on because I was more interested in the defense than the offense since it's a repeat of a bunch of facts I already knew.

I couldn't even get through 1 minute. It's infuriating, embarrassing, mind bending, and most of all obvious that democracy had died in the United States.

RomaVicta · January 25, 2020

8 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Murkowski pretended to be open to witnesses, knowing that she'd find a "that's where he lost me" moment.

"See, we tried to be reasonable! We went into it with an open mind. But who can go along with these people?"

Fuck you, fraud. You're just another sycophant suckling at the power teet and anyone with half a brain can see it. Fortunately, you live in Akaska, so you don't have to worry about that.

The news commentary was all about how the GOPs seemed to be listening intently and possibly being swayed. I bought it because Schiff was so good and surely most of these GOPs have something like a soul, something akin to an aspiration to integrity, some notion of self-respect.

Nope.

They were listening closely for anything they could use to reject the entire case and the appeal to their better sides (that don't actually exist). Imagine their relief to find the barest something to hang their hats on. Now we will hear how the terrible Dems insulted the GOP senators by suggesting that they're on bent knees before the king.

From the king flows all favor. From the king can come the headsman. At least until the king is overthrown.

RomaVicta · January 25, 2020

This is a joke of a defense.

"The house managers didn't show this, why not?"

Now Jay will whine about the persecution of poor Donald John Trump.

Pathetic. And it will be enough. Easily.

horn4life · January 25, 2020

I had to watch a few minutes of White House layer Michael Purpura I think they are shitting the bed at this very moment. A montage of "presumtions" from video and the insistence that none of the people spoke to the President. NOT A SINGLE WITNESS TALKED DIRECTLY TO THE PRESIDENT!

Gee.... maybe they should search for the truth by talking to the people who talked to the President. I know that it's hard to defend a guilty person, but lots of lawyers do it all the time. But in a real "trial" the prosecution is actually allowed to call the witnesses that DID talk to the President. So I am very, very confused on why the attack on the current testimony is mostly on the basis of lack of direct contact to the President? Why insist the record is incomplete?

I think the average person would like to hear from some of those that could clearly and unequivocally exonerate? Sounds almost reasonable to look for the truth via people who actually did talk to the President.

immamac · January 25, 2020

I turned it back on to grind my teeth through.

They have 1 guy who didn't know shit in record saying he didn't know and Ukraine didn't know. How does that fact do anything? It's a worthless fact and the narrative is why didn't they show the footage? Cuz it's irrelevant - there's tons of other evidence showing without a shadow of a doubt he actually withheld the fucking aid and it was dependent on investigating the bidens. What the actual fuck

4th&Five · January 25, 2020

Gil Bang · January 25, 2020

Sekulow pushing the "Ukraine interfered" narrative hard.

TexArcher · January 25, 2020

5 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

The President of the United States sounds like a kid running for 7th grade Student Council.

JimmyJames · January 25, 2020

GOP is gonna face it’s moment of truth. After this there is no turning back. I’m betting on them failing the country yet again. Guess we’ll see.

TwiceHorn · January 25, 2020

10 hours ago, bolverk said:

I dunno. That might be the case of the dimmest bulbs, but let's look at the record in Texas as an example.

Facts:

In the last round of redistricting, it was proven that Republicans had drawn new districts to intentionally discriminate against non-Anglo Texans.

One participant in that redistricting process (the guy who died in NC and whose daughter released the records due to shame) was the architect who proposed the Census citizenship question on the premise that it would supress Latino response rates even among actual real live citizens.

Republican legislators in the last session refused to allot any funding toward increasing participation among Texans to participate in this next Census count. There was a proposal to spend $50 million, but it was shot down. Meanwhile, California is spending $200 million. While that sounds like a lot, it is a mere pittance in comparison to the risk of potentially losing $billions lost in federal funding which would hurt all Texans.

Then, there's the whole voter ID issue.

The legislators themselves might be dumbasses who don't see the bigger picture, but I assure you the strategists are not. There is a clear effort to to maintain Anglo control as long as possible in this state as well as the nation.

They are using fear tactics to drum up the beat that non-Anglos are to be feared so as to drive up tribalistic xenophobia while also using their existing power to disenfranchise "minorities" to buy them some time while they can find new wedge issues for the future.

They have a clear overall strategy for developing a new stealth Jim Crow to maintain power. All the above facts I stated are only noisy tactics - each of which has become effective in dividing our democracy and disenfranchising our denizens.

State elections are a different deal to an extent. There they can rely on local rural ignoramuses, and, of course, Trumpism works best there. But for nationwide and statewide elections, e.g. President and Senate, they don't have anything that they can count on to win such an election, much less a majority, without Trumpism.

Goredho · January 25, 2020

21 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

HAHAHAHA! AOC is progressive and possessive of a tan vagina. OF COURSE she's the logical super-villain for drivelin' Trump's base.

henrygandorf · January 25, 2020

i’m treating today like i’m fox news. it’s on, but on mute. let me know if i miss anything.

Nivek · January 25, 2020

10 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

GOP gonna GOP.

The whole sham is a coverup to coverup their criminal behavior.

Time to vote the criminals out.

problem is that the criminals rigged the election process with gerrymandering, voter suppression, stacking the courts, inviting money and even foreign governments to influence/hack the elections and manipulate the media. How is our representation so askew from the political leanings of the populous?

Cacti · January 25, 2020

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The death of the Republic isn't going to be a white hot flame of war between parties, it's going to be the silent and cold shuddering of a last breath.

Hyperbole, perhaps, but it sure feels real.

No perhaps about it, it’s over-the-top hyperbole. But you’re in the right place for exaggeration.

39 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's infuriating, embarrassing, mind bending, and most of all obvious that democracy had died in the United States.

Trump will be gone in a few months, but the real danger to our country will remain: uncontrolled borrowing and spending. Meanwhile... no, our republic is not dead; it’s not dying; and our unique form of democracy will survive.

Nivek · January 25, 2020

22 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

The President of the United States sounds like a kid running for 7th grade Student Council.

I have a 2nd grader that speak more eloquently.

23 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

GOP is gonna face it’s moment of truth. After this there is no turning back. I’m betting on them failing the country yet again. Guess we’ll see.

They had that when the raised debt while speaking about fiscal responsibility in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and also when no WMD's were found in Iraq, Iraqi distraction from Afghanistan, no oil didn't pay for it, Mexico didn't pay for it, You Lie!, arms to Iran-Contra, psychics in the White House, family values guys cheating, divorcing their sick wives, fathering children by multiple women, going on sex tour with sack of viagra/oxy, cheating in elections, voter suppression, eroding civil rights act, eroding health care, socializing risk-privatizing gains, deregulating industries for no benefit, supporting and embracing pollution, under-funding education, no investigation into graft (missing billions that were flown to Iraq), and inviting compromised people into the White House and violating security protocols, embracing nepotism, promoting uniquely unqualified people, racism, kids in cages, trauma to babies, forcing toddlers to defend themselves in court, separating families from babies and housing the in system of graft, bans on muslims.... but yeah, this will be the line. sure. /Jennifer Lawrence

Gil Bang · January 25, 2020

19 minutes ago, Goredho said:

HAHAHAHA! AOC is progressive and possessive of a tan vagina. OF COURSE she's the logical super-villain for drivelin' Trump's base.

A tan vagina that I'd love to get a look at.

Mrs Whiggins · January 25, 2020

7 minutes ago, Cacti said:

Trump will be gone in a few months, but the real danger to our country will remain: uncontrolled borrowing and spending. Meanwhile... no, our republic is not dead; it’s not dying; and our unique form of democracy will survive.

Your first phrase: maybe if the people surrounding Trump can no longer hide his declining mental health he will be removed, but other than that, I'm not confident. I agree that the fiscal imprudence is alarming. As to the republic, not optimistic at all.

I do like your avatar, though-reminds me of a section of cacti at Huntington Gardens-if you like cacti, it is worth a visit if you ever go to the LA area.

horn4life · January 25, 2020

I have been listened to most of it. Almost all their arguments are based on not having enough evidence? Or omitted evidence.

The "subpoenas are not subpoenas" isn't especially strong. So that argument is that the Dems should withdraw the referral to allow President Trump with now apparently "lawful" subpoenas? And the President would now fully comply? That's the malarky that's the foundation of the non-obstruction of congress.

I am curious as to today's closing by Pat Cipollone that we want more facts!!!! Ironical....

PS- I know that a lot of folks think the White House lawyers are going to use their "strong" arguments Monday... Like Trump lifting weights strong?

Edited January 25, 2020 by horn4life

Goredho · January 25, 2020

9 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

A tan vagina that I'd love to get a look at.

What you see:

What the Trumpkin sees:

deech · January 25, 2020

I swear if I am the Dems - they should make sure there is a vote on:

1. Just documents. That's the vote you take to the American People in November.

2. Limited list of relevant witnesses and documents (Bolton, Mulvaney)

3. Then for the final vote offer up subpoenas for everyone - Hunter, Joe, Rudy, Parnas, Bolton, Mulvaney, the whistleblower, Schiff - whomever the fuck they want.

I know they aren't relevant, but I think the R's balk on #3 as well and that makes them look even worse IMHO.

Sbbruin · January 25, 2020

1 hour ago, immamac said:

I turned it on because I was more interested in the defense than the offense since it's a repeat of a bunch of facts I already knew.

I couldn't even get through 1 minute. It's infuriating, embarrassing, mind bending, and most of all obvious that democracy had died in the United States.

I made about 20 mins. They are obfuscating facts with illogic. It’s mind bending.

tx 3 putt · January 25, 2020

One of the Dems should have went ‘a time to kill’ on the republican senators - now imagine if Obama had made all these calls in 2014, ahead of the 2016 election. How would you vote ?

*mic drop*

immamac · January 25, 2020

1 hour ago, Cacti said:

No perhaps about it, it’s over-the-top hyperbole. But you’re in the right place for exaggeration.

Trump will be gone in a few months, but the real danger to our country will remain: uncontrolled borrowing and spending. Meanwhile... no, our republic is not dead; it’s not dying; and our unique form of democracy will survive.

dude, trump swung the door wide open on being able to do whatever the fuck you want as President. This is no longer a democracy we are officially an Oligarchy.

Unless the next President-Elect significantly diminishes the power in the executive office or appropriately amends the constitution to close these bogus ass executive privileges we are no longer living in a democracy. The majority of people don't even elect our presidents anymore due to the electoral system and the Senate doesn't represent their constituents interests - it's become an us vs them and nothing about that benefits public policy at a regional or national level - the only people benefiting are the ones signing the checks. That's how you get to a state of Oligarchy.

miguelito · January 25, 2020

I wonder what Chief Justice Roberts thinks of the 'defense' put up by Trump's team.

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The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

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