The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,559]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I love how Republicans keep arguing for mob rule. Let the voters decide if he should be impeached...Bitch, that’s not how this works. They already elected you, now do your fucking job. 

Yeah I think we are confusing how America works versus how American Idol works.  

[Brisketexan 105,122]

41 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Wow. I’ve heard of moving the goalposts but I’m not even sure there is a term for this

 

 

I do not accept such stipulation, because it is false.

Trump did not withhold aid from Ukraine to "get an investigation into Biden."

Trump withheld aid from Ukraine to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden.

That verb fucking matters.  That verb makes it crystal fucking clear that Trump's purpose was NOT some fantastical "anti-corruption" crusade by a man whose life's work has been corruption - no, his purpose was a public statement, which serves only one end: damaging Biden, Trump's political opponent.

That's crystal fucking clear.

[burntorangebongos 10,710]

 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I do not accept such stipulation, because it is false.

Trump did not withhold aid from Ukraine to "get an investigation into Biden."

Trump withheld aid from Ukraine to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden.

That verb fucking matters.  That verb makes it crystal fucking clear that Trump's purpose was NOT some fantastical "anti-corruption" crusade by a man whose life's work has been corruption - no, his purpose was a public statement, which serves only one end: damaging Biden, Trump's political opponent.

That's crystal fucking clear.

But we withheld aid from North Korea until they denuclearize too! It's the same thing!  Quid pro quo is always okay. It doesn't matter whether you withhold aid to get Ukraine to reform their own education system or to get them to bomb Milwaukee. You can do either one as President. 

[deech 2,275]

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Minor treason??

Is that like a little bit pregnant?

This is likely Dershowitz's favorite treason.

[Brisketexan 105,122]

Just now, deech said:

This is likely Dershowitz's favorite treason.

Dershowitz keeps his underwear on while he commits treason.

That totally makes it okay.

[jimmyjazz 45,916]

Having a Louisiana Kennedy advocating for your side of the argument has to be one of the worst feelings ever.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,451]

Lets not start sucking Bolton's dick just yet.  I want to hear his testimony first.

The time has come,' the Walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes — and ships — and sealing-wax —
Of cabbages — and kings —
And why the sea is boiling hot —
And whether pigs have wings.'

[Texas73 420]

Dershowitz kept his underwear on just a little.

[heso 2,794]

I just saw a GOP senator claiming that if we’re going to impeach Trump for making the deal with Ukraine to help his re-election prospects then no president will ever be able to do anything that would improve their chances of re-election without getting impeached for it. He gave the example: if a president goes and makes a trade deal that is beneficial for the country, that’s now impeachable because it improves his re-election prospects. 

jesus Christ. I don’t think I know anyone stupid enough to believe that. But I’m sure I know people that will believe it because a GOP senator said it on Fox News. 

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

I heard one defense argument yesterday that I agree with and I called it out before the articles of impeachment were drafted.

The articles should have called out specific crimes and not the general "Abuse of Power" and Obstruction of Justice.

 

Abuse of power should have been broken up into:

• Soliciting foreign interference in presidential election
• Extortion or Bribery
• Violation of the Impoundment Act in conjunction with Extortion

Here's the problem.

The first, if it fit, which is a close call, is a "quasi crime."

You can't make what he did fit statutory extortion or bribery.

Violation of the Impoundment Act is not a crime.

That's not to say that I think the Articles are in any way deficient.  But it's hard to fit a statutory crime on any of this.

You can question all kinds of shit about the Impeachment Committee, but they didn't simply fail to allege a crime as some sort of negligent omission.

[TwiceHorn 31,457]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I do not accept such stipulation, because it is false.

Trump did not withhold aid from Ukraine to "get an investigation into Biden."

Trump withheld aid from Ukraine to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden.

That verb fucking matters.  That verb makes it crystal fucking clear that Trump's purpose was NOT some fantastical "anti-corruption" crusade by a man whose life's work has been corruption - no, his purpose was a public statement, which serves only one end: damaging Biden, Trump's political opponent.

That's crystal fucking clear.

Don't forget, had a similar opportunity to withhold aide to Ukraine in 2017 and 2018 and Biden's corruption was there, as was all the other Ukraine corruption that he claims to be concerned about.  In fact, the problem was arguably more acute then than now, and we gave Ukraine much more money in 17 and 18. https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/UKR?fiscal_year=2017&implementing_agency_id=2&measure=Disbursements

The difference in 2019?

Hmmmmm.

Edited January 29, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Chooky 13,307]

"I was not proud of what I had learned but I never doubted that it was worth knowing." -- Hunter S. Thompson

 

 

[horn4life 3,760]

After coming home this evening I told/forced the wife to watch Hannity. She was pissed at first watching it. But as the monologue wend longer and longer, I told her they are scared shitless.  Hannity used the same spaghetti defense as the lawyers not willing to be paid by Trump did so ineffectively.  I told my wife, "Hannity talks to Trump constantly, and the desperation was palatable.

GOP is fuck city.  If a single witness, or meaningful documentation is allowed.

It's all over. No matter what happens from here the GOP as a whole will either be seen as whores or swindlers.  I wish it was the old days and some molten tar and some chicken feathers were available.   I was high fiving my wife after Hannity's intro,  because you could almost smell the fear though the television.

 

Cue an Iran escalation.

Edited January 29, 2020 by horn4life

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

Whatever happens, McConnell is a complicit piece of shit. The Senate removal process needs to be changed. Let the chief justice manage all aspects of the trial including witnesses and evidence. Let the Senate shut up and be the jury. That way, traitors like Mitch can still vote not guilty as traitors, but at least they can't interfere with the overall presentation of the case against the president. In an actual trial, Mitch would be the first juror tossed in voir dire.

[TexasEd 8,066]

I think it might be time to short the market or get into cash.  The wag the dog will be bigger than the last assassination.

 

[Burt 4,080]

5 hours ago, Pasken said:

anyone know how the question days will work?

 

Repubs will submit a question and dems will answer. Dems will then submit a question and Repubs will go off on some tangent about how the dems are trying to litigate the 2016 election.  This back and forth will go on for 16 hours over the course of two days.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Burt

[DixonHur 11,301]

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I love how Republicans keep arguing for mob rule. Let the voters decide if he should be impeached...Bitch, that’s not how this works. They already elected you, now do your fucking job. 

Which voters?  The 258 million voting age Americans from whom Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump?  Or the 583 members of the electoral college who gave Trump 77 more votes than Hillary?

Me thinks they only care about the latter.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

Bolton testifying probably scares many gop senators not because of the Ukrainian aid story because everyone already knows that true.

They fear what else Bolton could potentially say. Trumps lawyers can’t count on trump telling them the truth so they would be flying blind. Most likely they would spend any time just attacking Bolton as being a disgruntled, terminated employee. And as Bolton says more and more, it’s very possible you next need pompeo to testify or Perry or Mulvaney. This can quickly get out of hand from trumps point of view.

if mcconnell and the trump lawyers knows about Bolton’s story, they probably could have originally conceded that trump asked for the Ukraine investigation against Biden BUT argued that it’s not impeachable. 53-47 quick vote to acquit.

not to mention that this screwup by the WH would seem to push the trial past the state of the union next Tuesday which was also something Mitch didn’t want.

[DixonHur 11,301]

The State of the Nation speech is gonna be crunk.

Get yo popcorn ready.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,559]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bolton testifying probably scares many gop senators not because of the Ukrainian aid story because everyone already knows that true.

They fear what else Bolton could potentially say. Trumps lawyers can’t count on trump telling them the truth so they would be flying blind. Most likely they would spend any time just attacking Bolton as being a disgruntled, terminated employee. And as Bolton says more and more, it’s very possible you next need pompeo to testify or Perry or Mulvaney. This can quickly get out of hand from trumps point of view.

if mcconnell and the trump lawyers knows about Bolton’s story, they probably could have originally conceded that trump asked for the Ukraine investigation against Biden BUT argued that it’s not impeachable. 53-47 quick vote to acquit.

not to mention that this screwup by the WH would seem to push the trial past the state of the union next Tuesday which was also something Mitch didn’t want.

The Republican senators are slowly pivoting to the “yeah he probably did it but it’s not impeachable” defense.  You can hear it many of their comments.  They know it’s the only way out of this.  They will vaguely acknowledge it with statements like “maybe” he held up aid or “it’s possible” he held up aid for dirt on the Biden’s  BUT they will make sure to add that stuff like this is not a reason to remove the president.  So when Bolton comes out either in his book, television interviews or on the floor of the Senate and says things like the reason we pulled our troops out of Syria was because the president of Turkey promised Trump lower taxes on his two Trump Towers in Turkey they will have to argue that its also no big deal for a president to make a little money on the side while doing his job with foreign countries.  It opens up the door for all politicians to cheat and steal and not try and hide it anymore which means if you think we have garbage politicians now wait until a real criminal and con man gets elected President and gets into the White.....fuck I couldn’t even finish typing that without laughing (and crying a little). 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bolton testifying probably scares many gop senators not because of the Ukrainian aid story because everyone already knows that true.

They fear what else Bolton could potentially say. Trumps lawyers can’t count on trump telling them the truth so they would be flying blind. Most likely they would spend any time just attacking Bolton as being a disgruntled, terminated employee. And as Bolton says more and more, it’s very possible you next need pompeo to testify or Perry or Mulvaney. This can quickly get out of hand from trumps point of view.

if mcconnell and the trump lawyers knows about Bolton’s story, they probably could have originally conceded that trump asked for the Ukraine investigation against Biden BUT argued that it’s not impeachable. 53-47 quick vote to acquit.

not to mention that this screwup by the WH would seem to push the trial past the state of the union next Tuesday which was also something Mitch didn’t want.

That is why he is such a hand grenade. You toss him in the room, and Democrat or Republican, you're not sure which way he's going to roll so all you can do is duck and cover. He might stay with his Republican leanings, he might swing a little toward revenge (but which way?), he might take a little piece of everyone. Unless he, too, has been coordinating with person(s) unknown, he's a weapon of unknown destruction. Good take, Nice Guy Eddie.

[brown water 3,777]

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't forget, had a similar opportunity to withhold aide to Ukraine in 2017 and 2018 and Biden's corruption was there, as was all the other Ukraine corruption that he claims to be concerned about.  In fact, the problem was arguably more acute then than now, and we gave Ukraine much more money in 17 and 18. https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/UKR?fiscal_year=2017&implementing_agency_id=2&measure=Disbursements

The difference in 2019?

Hmmmmm.

And this is clear to anyone that isn’t willfully ignorant.  Unfortunately the problem isn’t fixing their ignorance it’s changing their will. Good luck with that. 

[HenryJames 66,048]

These are serious people.

[TXSG8R 3,362]

8 hours ago, horn4life said:

After coming home this evening I told/forced the wife to watch Hannity. She was pissed at first watching it. But as the monologue wend longer and longer, I told her they are scared shitless.  Hannity used the same spaghetti defense as the lawyers not willing to be paid by Trump did so ineffectively.  I told my wife, "Hannity talks to Trump constantly, and the desperation was palatable.

GOP is fuck city.  If a single witness, or meaningful documentation is allowed.

It's all over. No matter what happens from here the GOP as a whole will either be seen as whores or swindlers.  I wish it was the old days and some molten tar and some chicken feathers were available.   I was high fiving my wife after Hannity's intro,  because you could almost smell the fear though the television.

 

Cue an Iran escalation.

Iran my ass. He’s going to invade Ukraine. He will send in his salty frog commandos to fight corruption, sack Burisma’s offices for the real dirt, and find that crowd strike server. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

We have a new witness if the GOP wants to turn this into a Biden vs Trump circus:

 

[TXSG8R 3,362]

33 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

These are serious people.

Wasted opportunity, she should have pressed them on why we didn't withhold aid the preceding two years (or really 4 years since the R's had both chambers prior to 2016 and could have still pressed it) where we gave them more money without all the corruption reforms in place.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

10 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Wasted opportunity, she should have pressed them on why we didn't withhold aid the preceding two years (or really 4 years since the R's had both chambers prior to 2016 and could have still pressed it) where we gave them more money without all the corruption reforms in place.  

Or the timing between Joe Biden announcing his candidacy (April), the Ukraine elections, and the phone call (July).

 

Pompeo is on his way to Kyiv, Ukraine this week.

[horncyclist 1,387]

4 hours ago, DixonHur said:

The State of the Nation speech is gonna be crunk.

Get yo popcorn ready.

[Bruh Man 3,160]

https://resist.bot/

[tantric superman 4,667]

I guess like a couple of other people mentioned, doesn't take too much time to call our crackerjack Senators and leave a message with their admin or a voice mail.  Sent Email yesterday.

DO SOMETHING!

 

[tantric superman 4,667]

BTW, Cruz's dallas number is all filled up, but he's got some bandwith on his east texas answering machine:  (903) 593-5130

[Tuco 5,076]

30 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

BTW, Cruz's dallas number is all filled up, but he's got some bandwith on his east texas answering machine:  (903) 593-5130

The DC offices generally have better systems. 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Really just a more palatable way of saying “head on a pike”.

I fully expect Susan Collins to be gravely offended!

[tantric superman 4,667]

12 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The DC offices generally have better systems. 

That swamps not drained yet!  I'd rather speak to a an honest Christian hayseed from Tyler.

[henrygandorf 29,190]

lev parnas showing up to the trial like frankie pentangeli’s brother. 

[tx 3 putt 76,933]

no way collins wins in November 

[tx 3 putt 76,933]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

lev parnas showing up to the trial like frankie pentangeli’s brother. 

[Mdhorn 5,949]

2 hours ago, horncyclist said:

I can guarantee you Trump wouldn't know how to load, hold, fire or control that weapon. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Americans are applying some pressure...

 

[Goredho 17,402]

GOP: That woman on the right is wearing a hijab!  She's not American
Non-deranged:  Americans can be muslim, and they can wear a hijab.  Besides, it's a knitted cap.
GOP: FAKE NEWS!  LIES!  HOAX!

Edited January 29, 2020 by Goredho

[Guest Lobo]

Some GOP senators have been curiously quiet about how much money they accepted from Bolton’s PAC.  
 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

2 hours ago, tantric superman said:

I guess like a couple of other people mentioned, doesn't take too much time to call our crackerjack Senators and leave a message with their admin or a voice mail.  Sent Email yesterday.

DO SOMETHING!

 

The one or two times I've sent an email to Cruz or Cornyn, I say something like "I'm opposed to this for the following reasons", and then I start an auto-reply how he's fighting for me on the same issue but in the opposite direction. I seriously don't think they care much about what constituents think. If they're overrun with opinions on the other side, they will write them off as some leftist coordinated effort.  And if asked, they will lie about the feedback whether they're even truly aware of it or not.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,793]

Flipped over to the conservative station on Sirius to see what they were peddling. Apparently 3 Dem senators were going to vote to acquit until Schiff planted the Bolton story in the Times. No joke. 

Conservative media is more dangerous than Donald. 

[Biff Tannen 45,679]

18 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Americans are applying some pressure...

 

Good

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The one or two times I've sent an email to Cruz or Cornyn, I say something like "I'm opposed to this for the following reasons", and then I start an auto-reply how he's fighting for me on the same issue but in the opposite direction. I seriously don't think they care much about what constituents think. If they're overrun with opinions on the other side, they will write them off as some leftist coordinated effort.  And if asked, they will lie about the feedback whether they're even truly aware of it or not.

I don't think they care either, but I still call, etc. I try and call first, prior to emailing because:

1. I can keep it short and sweet.

2. I sometimes talk to a live person.

3. Even if I believe they don't care about my views, they do care about votes and if that means they spend more $$, then maybe I weaken them elsewhere.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

The truth is dead.

Alternative facts is now the way of the world.

[Aqua Buddha 14,595]

 

[Mdhorn 5,949]

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/01/28/a-daily-show-truck-is-driving-around-dc-playing-video-of-trump-insulting-senators/

Remember when President Trump said that mean thing about that senator? No? Well, the Daily Show does. As the Senate draws closer to a vote on whether or not to impeach the President, the nightly talk show is taking to the DC streets with a tongue-in-cheek ad campaign to remind senators exactly how the president insulted them in the past — and to urge them, please, not to take it personally.

“We’re trying to always think of ways to take jokes that we have and take them outside the boundaries of 11:00 to 11:30. Like, how can we exist in the real world? How can we get closer to the people that we’re covering?” Hedayati says. “Literally driving a truck outside of the building they’re in is a way to do that.” 

Trump’s penchant for insults is well-documented. An investigation by the New York Times published in November 2019 found that, since his inauguration in 2017, Trump “attack[ed] someone or something in more than half of his tweets.”

Edited January 29, 2020 by Mdhorn

[washparkhorn 9,939]

13 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I don't think they care either, but I still call, etc. I try and call first, prior to emailing because:

1. I can keep it short and sweet.

2. I sometimes talk to a live person.

3. Even if I believe they don't care about my views, they do care about votes and if that means they spend more $$, then maybe I weaken them elsewhere.

Civil disobedience works. Keep up the good fight.