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The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5948

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I think the odds of an election getting rid of Trump are better than removal through impeachment based on what the Senate has shown us.  Its looking like we cant even get 4 Rs to ask for witnesses.  A 2/3rd vote to remove is unthinkable.  

They still have jobs to do in the meantime and can campaign on doing the right thing along with trying to keep our Democracy safe.    

Edited by Mdhorn
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TexArcher
TexArcher

Of course we're not getting witnesses and of course Trump is getting acquitted.  This was only going to end one way. Schiff was brilliant.  And none of the people who needed to hear it did.

Zavala
Zavala

DAMN YOU RUSSIA!

Longhorn_Fan68
Longhorn_Fan68

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mdhorn said:

They still have jobs to do in the meantime and can campaign on doing the right thing along with trying to keep our Democracy safe.    

Im not saying to stop investigating issues, but unless you can carry a literal smoking gun into the senate, it wont make a shit.  Offload stuff to state AGs and the media to keep it in front of the public.  There are ways outside of impeachment to keep the heat on the president.  

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4058

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is important.  People in this country, by and large, are not smart.  They get bogged down when the story becomes to complicated.

I think that a lot of them are smarter than you give them credit for. Now, are they also very vulnerable to suggestion? Yes. Why else would there be an entire industry that's psychotically devoted to lying their asses off in order to persuade large numbers of people to believe in their bullshit?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45898

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I think the odds of an election getting rid of Trump are better than removal through impeachment based on what the Senate has shown us.  Its looking like we cant even get 4 Rs to ask for witnesses.  A 2/3rd vote to remove is unthinkable.  

Absolutely nobody is arguing this point.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13581

Posted
Posted

It's not so much of betting on getting 2/3 of the Senate to vote for removal as it is 

1) Getting as much Republican absurdity on the record

2) Letting the GOP know there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The leader of your cult knows no other way than to give the finger to the law. There is no "if we just get through this, we are home free!" No you're not. You're simply one more step down the wrong fork and it's not going to end.

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Red Five

Red Five 40852

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Posted

A fun exercise: What would Trump have to do to get the 2/3 votes to remove? Like, if there was a tape of him selling the nuclear codes to Putin, would that do it? I don't think it would. We'd be treated to a trial full of "look, this is just how politics work. If the president sees fit to sell our nuclear codes to a foreign leader then he has every right to do so". 

So, what would do it?

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think we all want everything on the record, but I don't know if another impeachment is the way to do it.

I don't know how they can do it, it's mostly me screaming, "Do Something!!" because this is unbearable to think of ten months of watching crime after crime and the smug faces of people like Pompeo and Miller and Ken Cuccinelli as they bully and silence the voices of those less powerful.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13510

Posted
Posted

The real jury here is the American public. Sure, the House Managers probably have a .0001% hope that somehow they can steer this trial to a Trump removal but they're realists. If up to 75% of the American public think witnesses should be called, it will be a Dem win if the GOP blocks witnesses.

Besides it doesn't mean that some of the testimony or evidence won't get released between now and November anyway.   Speaking of which, there is a path of Trump winning the WH but the Dems controlling the Senate and House.  And if you don't think that won't mean impeachment in 2021, you 're not thinking ahead.

Hell, I don't even know if double jeopardy applies in impeachment, but you could easily argue that Trump was never in jeopardy during this trial given that more than 1/3 of the senators pre-stated their decision.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45673

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Red Five said:

A fun exercise: What would Trump have to do to get the 2/3 votes to remove? Like, if there was a tape of him selling the nuclear codes to Putin, would that do it? I don't think it would. We'd be treated to a trial full of "look, this is just how politics work. If the president sees fit to sell our nuclear codes to a foreign leader then he has every right to do so". 

So, what would do it?

At this point, I don't even think video of him shooting someone on 5th avenue would do it.

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

It's not so much of betting on getting 2/3 of the Senate to vote for removal as it is 

1) Getting as much Republican absurdity on the record

2) Letting the GOP know there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The leader of your cult knows no other way than to give the finger to the law. There is no "if we just get through this, we are home free!" No you're not. You're simply one more step down the wrong fork and it's not going to end.

I think that falls into the witch hunt argument, and would turn off some of the independents that you need to get Trump out of office.  I'm completely on board with keeping the WH and R's malfeasance in the public's view, I just think we should do it with something besides impeachment.  I think we will agree to disagree, no sense in going round and round about it.  

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The real jury here is the American public. Sure, the House Managers probably have a .0001% hope that somehow they can steer this trial to a Trump removal but they're realists. If up to 75% of the American public think witnesses should be called, it will be a Dem win if the GOP blocks witnesses.

Besides it doesn't mean that some of the testimony or evidence won't get released between now and November anyway.   Speaking of which, there is a path of Trump winning the WH but the Dems controlling the Senate and House.  And if you don't think that won't mean impeachment in 2021, you 're not thinking ahead.

Hell, I don't even know if double jeopardy applies in impeachment, but you could easily argue that Trump was never in jeopardy during this trial given that more than 1/3 of the senators pre-stated their decision.

 

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

At this point, I don't even think video of him shooting someone on 5th avenue would do it.

Here's a question.  If you were a GOP Senator privy to whats going on within the GOP, and knew they were going to fix it to where they never again meaningfully share power and we are headed towards an autocratic state led by Trump...

Would you want to piss him off?

It may not simply be a question of surviving a primary challenge for these senators any more.

EDIT:  Meant to quote RedFive's question, but whatever.

Edited by Goredho
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Red Five said:

A fun exercise: What would Trump have to do to get the 2/3 votes to remove? Like, if there was a tape of him selling the nuclear codes to Putin, would that do it? I don't think it would. We'd be treated to a trial full of "look, this is just how politics work. If the president sees fit to sell our nuclear codes to a foreign leader then he has every right to do so". 

So, what would do it?

Switching parties.

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elfenix

elfenix 34230

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Trump has written the playbook on how not to get impeached and removed. Besides having a friendly Senate, refuse to let anyone testify. 

If I were a future administration I would even stop participating in Congressional Oversight committees even for regular business. you want to hear about my agency.  no.  Maybe I will send over a statement, report or an junior employee.  If I feel like it.

this is our concern

 

 

edit: how many conservatives on here have bitched and moaned about congress ceding power to the executive and wanting congress to take power back?

Edited by elfenix
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4058

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this is our concern

 

 

edit: how many conservatives on here have bitched and moaned about congress ceding power to the executive and wanting congress to take power back?

They only care about that when a Democrat is president. More of that team sports bullshit.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Red Five said:

A fun exercise: What would Trump have to do to get the 2/3 votes to remove? Like, if there was a tape of him selling the nuclear codes to Putin, would that do it? I don't think it would. We'd be treated to a trial full of "look, this is just how politics work. If the president sees fit to sell our nuclear codes to a foreign leader then he has every right to do so". 

So, what would do it?

Nothing.  The answer is "nothing."

15 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

cross mitch mcconnell.

easiest question i'll answer all day.

Nope, not even that.  Because the toadies who are GOP senators don't follow McConnell's orders -- they follow Trumpism's orders that are passed through McConnell.  The entire party is compromised, and has no choice but complete fealty to Trump.  They have no choice.  I think it's gone beyond political survival, and is now a matter of personal survival/freedom (which was a smart and strong play by Trump).  Get everyone involved in your criminal enterprise, then they can't go against you, or else they'll go down with the ship too.

Trump could decide to go to war with California, and launch unprovoked airstrikes against San Francisco, and you'd never get more than furrowed brows.

There's nothing he can do to lose them.  And they will insure that they do not lose control of the Senate, and likely the White House.  The illusion that we have any choice in this matter is just that, an illusion.  Our last election that was close to "free and fair" happened in 2012 or so.  We won't get another one.

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VinyVango

VinyVango 689

Posted
Posted

Representative Garcia is the least effective, least eloquent, and least prepared (apparently) member of the House Manager team.  I've not heard her read through once sentence on her scripts yet without stumbling... by far the weakest link.  The outcome likely is not adversely affected by anything she has said or done, but the nationwide viewership, interest, and potential negative repercussions from all the GOP Senators' and the defense teams' lies and bullshit could have been exponentially greater with a better choice.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Posted

Dear Tantric (you surly asshole):

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

 

America has experienced hard-fought elections in the past, and our leaders have always found a way to come together and resolve our differences to address the issues facing our nation. Our Founding Fathers wisely developed a system of checks and balances to prevent an accumulation of excessive power in any single branch of government. I am committed to exercising appropriate congressional oversight to prevent abuses of power by any branch of government.

 

On August 12, 2019, a whistleblower filed a complaint with the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community regarding a July 25, 2019 telephone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. President Trump later released a memorandum that provided more information regarding the content of that call. On October 31, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives unilaterally passed a resolution (H. Res. 660) to approve a formal impeachment inquiry against President Trump for improperly inviting foreign interference in U.S. elections. Over the next few weeks, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Committee on the Judiciary conducted hearings and received testimony from numerous individuals relating to the Trump Administration’s activities in Ukraine. On December 18, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives advanced two articles of impeachment, one for abuse of power and one for obstruction of Congress, and voted to impeach President Trump on both counts on a purely partisan basis.

 

Historically, both political parties have participated in the impeachment process, and the House of Representatives has traditionally advanced articles of impeachment only on a broad bipartisan basis and after lengthy investigations that produced clear and compelling evidence of criminal misconduct. Federal courts have also played a role in resolving disputes between the executive and legislative branches. The American people expect Congress to exercise its oversight authority diligently, transparently, and cooperatively. However, I am concerned the House Democrats’ inquiry into President Trump was rushed, politically motivated, and not conducted in a reasonable and bipartisan manner.

 

The Senate is now exercising its important responsibility under the Constitution to conduct a trial to consider the articles of impeachment, and determine whether a duly elected president should be removed from office. Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys are now arguing their case in front of the full Senate. Following opening arguments, senators will be able to submit written questions for the chief justice of the Supreme Court to read aloud to the Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys. Following the questions, the Senate will then vote on whether to hear from additional witnesses or obtain additional evidence related to the charges. I will continue to keep an open mind and look forward to examining the record, considering the arguments from both sides, and deliberating with my colleagues before deciding whether the House has proven President Trump committed impeachable offenses, and therefore must be removed from office.

  

While we may not agree on every issue, I hope you will continue to contact me regarding matters of importance to you. I serve nearly 30 million Texans, regardless of political affiliation, and I pledge to consider your views during my work in the U.S. Senate. I appreciate having the opportunity to represent you, and I thank you for taking the time to contact me.

 

Sincerely,

 

JOHN CORNYN

United States Senator

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Dear Tantric (you surly asshole):

 

 

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

 

 

 

America has experienced hard-fought elections in the past, and our leaders have always found a way to come together and resolve our differences to address the issues facing our nation. Our Founding Fathers wisely developed a system of checks and balances to prevent an accumulation of excessive power in any single branch of government. I am committed to exercising appropriate congressional oversight to prevent abuses of power by any branch of government.

 

 

 

On August 12, 2019, a whistleblower filed a complaint with the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community regarding a July 25, 2019 telephone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. President Trump later released a memorandum that provided more information regarding the content of that call. On October 31, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives unilaterally passed a resolution (H. Res. 660) to approve a formal impeachment inquiry against President Trump for improperly inviting foreign interference in U.S. elections. Over the next few weeks, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Committee on the Judiciary conducted hearings and received testimony from numerous individuals relating to the Trump Administration’s activities in Ukraine. On December 18, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives advanced two articles of impeachment, one for abuse of power and one for obstruction of Congress, and voted to impeach President Trump on both counts on a purely partisan basis.

 

 

 

Historically, both political parties have participated in the impeachment process, and the House of Representatives has traditionally advanced articles of impeachment only on a broad bipartisan basis and after lengthy investigations that produced clear and compelling evidence of criminal misconduct. Federal courts have also played a role in resolving disputes between the executive and legislative branches. The American people expect Congress to exercise its oversight authority diligently, transparently, and cooperatively. However, I am concerned the House Democrats’ inquiry into President Trump was rushed, politically motivated, and not conducted in a reasonable and bipartisan manner.

 

 

 

The Senate is now exercising its important responsibility under the Constitution to conduct a trial to consider the articles of impeachment, and determine whether a duly elected president should be removed from office. Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys are now arguing their case in front of the full Senate. Following opening arguments, senators will be able to submit written questions for the chief justice of the Supreme Court to read aloud to the Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys. Following the questions, the Senate will then vote on whether to hear from additional witnesses or obtain additional evidence related to the charges. I will continue to keep an open mind and look forward to examining the record, considering the arguments from both sides, and deliberating with my colleagues before deciding whether the House has proven President Trump committed impeachable offenses, and therefore must be removed from office.

 

  

 

While we may not agree on every issue, I hope you will continue to contact me regarding matters of importance to you. I serve nearly 30 million Texans, regardless of political affiliation, and I pledge to consider your views during my work in the U.S. Senate. I appreciate having the opportunity to represent you, and I thank you for taking the time to contact me.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

JOHN CORNYN

 

United States Senator

 

 

 

Reply: 

Dear Senator Cornyn, 

Go fuck your own face.

Yours,

Tantric

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14332

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Dear Tantric (you surly asshole):

 

 

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

 

 

 

America has experienced hard-fought elections in the past, and our leaders have always found a way to come together and resolve our differences to address the issues facing our nation. Our Founding Fathers wisely developed a system of checks and balances to prevent an accumulation of excessive power in any single branch of government. I am committed to exercising appropriate congressional oversight to prevent abuses of power by any branch of government.

 

 

 

On August 12, 2019, a whistleblower filed a complaint with the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community regarding a July 25, 2019 telephone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. President Trump later released a memorandum that provided more information regarding the content of that call. On October 31, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives unilaterally passed a resolution (H. Res. 660) to approve a formal impeachment inquiry against President Trump for improperly inviting foreign interference in U.S. elections. Over the next few weeks, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Committee on the Judiciary conducted hearings and received testimony from numerous individuals relating to the Trump Administration’s activities in Ukraine. On December 18, 2019, Democrats in the House of Representatives advanced two articles of impeachment, one for abuse of power and one for obstruction of Congress, and voted to impeach President Trump on both counts on a purely partisan basis.

 

 

 

Historically, both political parties have participated in the impeachment process, and the House of Representatives has traditionally advanced articles of impeachment only on a broad bipartisan basis and after lengthy investigations that produced clear and compelling evidence of criminal misconduct. Federal courts have also played a role in resolving disputes between the executive and legislative branches. The American people expect Congress to exercise its oversight authority diligently, transparently, and cooperatively. However, I am concerned the House Democrats’ inquiry into President Trump was rushed, politically motivated, and not conducted in a reasonable and bipartisan manner.

 

 

 

The Senate is now exercising its important responsibility under the Constitution to conduct a trial to consider the articles of impeachment, and determine whether a duly elected president should be removed from office. Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys are now arguing their case in front of the full Senate. Following opening arguments, senators will be able to submit written questions for the chief justice of the Supreme Court to read aloud to the Representatives from the House and President Trump’s attorneys. Following the questions, the Senate will then vote on whether to hear from additional witnesses or obtain additional evidence related to the charges. I will continue to keep an open mind and look forward to examining the record, considering the arguments from both sides, and deliberating with my colleagues before deciding whether the House has proven President Trump committed impeachable offenses, and therefore must be removed from office.

 

  

 

While we may not agree on every issue, I hope you will continue to contact me regarding matters of importance to you. I serve nearly 30 million Texans, regardless of political affiliation, and I pledge to consider your views during my work in the U.S. Senate. I appreciate having the opportunity to represent you, and I thank you for taking the time to contact me.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

JOHN CORNYN

 

United States Senator

 

 

 

Yeah, about that.  What about what you said the other day outside the senate chamber about not needing witnesses?

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14332

Posted
Posted

Q. How valuable would an announcement have been of a Biden investigation during the 2020 campaign?

President's counsel:  The DOJ said it wasn't of value

Schiff:  It was immensely valuable.

Surly DDD Dad:  It was worth about $400 million.  Or three-fiddy.

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yoladu

yoladu 4093

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Rand Paul is such a cock

Exhibit A:

in which Ron Paul said:

  • “I’m not sure I would say Trump is Hitler – Goebbels maybe.”
  • “Donald Trump is a delusional narcissist and an orange-faced windbag.”

and the pièce de résistance 

  • "But what worries me most about Trump, other than all the other crazy things, is that i believe he wants power, and i believe, from my point of view, that power corrupts and the whole purpose of our Founding Fathers in our country was to contain power... I don't want power to gravitate to a Republican or a Democrat."

He is a cock.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14332

Posted
Posted (edited)

I understand why they take the position but I really wish the House managers would recognize that perhaps their downplaying of Clinton's perjury and witness tampering was hurts their credibility.

Lofgren missed an opportunity to hammer the House Republicans as the reason why the House's current impeachment vote was partisan.  Recognize that the Democrats' position on Clinton was nearly equally partisan and use to your advantage here.

Edited by DDD Dad
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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted

If/when Donny Trump wriggles his way out of this, it won’t be a win because Republican absurdity and hypocrisy is on record as much as it will be a loss because of the moral hazard; GOP have pushed the line of the rules and what can be taken advantage of and get away with Scott free (and don’t give me any moral victory stuff about how being impeached by the House and having an asterisk next to his name means anything to anyone). This is all bad.

The reason it is bad is because half the country are members of the Cyclops third eye clan from HBOs Watchmen and the other half are not and we have no Superhero’s.

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