The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[Chad Fuck 17843]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Murkowski references an attempt to pull the Supreme Court into this mess. That means she was told by Moscow Mitch if she votes for witnesses creating a tie that Chief Justice Roberts was going to break it. I hate being right sometimes.  
 

If trump wins in November the senate  republic is done as an institution. 

fify.

[triplehorn 2664]

6 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

Trump's strategy is brilliant. So much crime, so much corruption, so many lies - the American public becomes exhausted.

 

Time for the Dems to use the same playbook. New impeachment charges; bribery, treason, etc. Impeach Trump a 2nd time, a 3rd time, a 4th time. Impeach him over and over until the GOP senators are exhausted. 

I'm in 

 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2647]

I hope the house continues investigation and subpoenas Bolton after this.   

[hayden_horn 11365]

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Lamar Alexander and the Republican caucus failed the country today and they know it. His statement admits it. 
 

In actuality his statement is the scariest of all. He knows trump did it, thinks it was proven, but actually thinks it’s ok for him to do so, or at least the Congress, which the founders intended from day one to be most in charge, is powerless to stop it. That is scary as shit and we haven’t yet reaped that whirlwind. 
 

Have no doubt. The senate rewrote the constitution today. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

In practice, despite their continued influence and prestige, the senators' powers had greatly diminished compared to in the Republic at its height. A small group of senators was now appointed by the emperor (consilium) which decided what exactly would be debated by the full Senate, which Augustus himself sometimes chaired in person. 
 

Sound familiar Moscow Mitch? 

[DDD Dad 14374]

wow...WOW!
 

[TXSG8R 3362]

Man it has to be infuriating for the house managers.  What can they say today that matters?  The senate has all but admitted that yea, hes guilty, so what?  

[David Dennison 19120]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

Man it has to be infuriating for the house managers.  What can they say today that matters?  The senate has all but admitted that yea, hes guilty, so what?  

They knew this would be the result in September. Everyone did.

[JimmyJames 12271]

15 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

fify.

Probably. I do try to remain optimistic. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

They knew this would be the result in September. Everyone did.

I think we all agreed he wouldn't get removed, but I didn't expect this route to it.  

[triplehorn 2664]

It's far from over for Doturd.

[David Dennison 19120]

8 minutes ago, Xian said:

I hope the house continues investigation and subpoenas Bolton after this.   

There's nothing stopping John Bolton from holding a press conference this afternoon and telling the American public everything he knows.

But he's in it for the money so he can go fuck himself like every other Republican shit heel.

[hayden_horn 11365]

great article on why republicans are bowing under pressure:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/31/21116689/trump-impeachment-lamar-alexander-witness-bolton

Quote

Sen. Lamar Alexander’s decision to oppose witnesses in President Trump’s Senate impeachment trial seems like the nail in the coffin. Without Alexander’s vote, Democrats have virtually no shot at winning enough support to call vitally important figures like former White House national security adviser John Bolton to the Senate floor to testify about Trump’s threats to withhold military aid from Ukraine.

Alexander’s justification for his vote is remarkable. He argues that there is “no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens” because ‘the House managers have proved this with what they call a “mountain of overwhelming evidence.’”

Not only did Alexander admit that Trump was guilty, but he admitted that what Trump did was wrong — he just didn’t think it warranted Trump’s removal from office.

“It was inappropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent and to withhold United States aid to encourage that investigation,” he says. “But the Constitution does not give the Senate the power to remove the president from office and ban him from this year’s ballot simply for actions that are inappropriate.”

He thinks, in effect, that a president who attempted to interfere with the integrity of the 2020 election should be allowed to compete in that election without any real punishment for his behavior.

This is an absurd position. It’s an especially absurd position given that Alexander is retiring from the Senate, and thus has nothing to fear from Trump politically. So what is going on?

The best explanation I’ve seen comes from Tim Alberta, Politico’s chief political correspondent and a deeply sourced reporter among congressional Republicans. He suggests that Alexander was afraid — not of losing his job, but of threats to his future income and social status:

interesting take, imo. fear of the cult could be a real motivator, but they are still cowards. COWARDS

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

They knew this would be the result in September. Everyone did.

Not many predicted a complete sham trial when they absolutely know there is more evidence out there. 
 

Moscow Mitch secured a new low today for the country. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at that. 

[Tuco 5084]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Man it has to be infuriating for the house managers.  What can they say today that matters?  The senate has all but admitted that yea, hes guilty, so what?  

He should quote from Alexander's, Rubio's, and Murkowski's statements.  Show this jumbled mess of rationalizations for what it is.  Look right at them.  Point at them.  And then come back to the line about how political courage is rare. 

[Goredho 17510]

Today, in the United States, we will witness the party in power being granted the authority to rig future elections in any way they see fit by the party in power.  There is only one logical conclusion in that context -- our democracy is a failed experiment.  The party in power will ensure N more years of their rule no matter what the people desire.

Welcome to the dawn of Trumpartheid.  We Americans are collectively the spoiled and entitled rich child who has blown through their inheritance.  The inheritance of democracy and freedom that we cannot fathom having to earn.

Here is to the impending hardship, unfairness and oppression awaiting us that will harden the fortitude of stronger men and women to right these wrongs.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

There's nothing stopping John Bolton from holding a press conference this afternoon and telling the American public everything he knows.

But he's in it for the money so he can go fuck himself like every other Republican shit heel.

The White House has (falsely) claimed info info in his book was “top secret.” If that were actually true Bolton would have already been arrested and the book confiscated. 
 

Actually that may be trumps next move to arrest Bolton for writing a book he doesn’t like, given the republicans blessing of his actions today. 

[TwiceHorn 31685]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

I think we all agreed he wouldn't get removed, but I didn't expect this route to it.  

Acquittal was a foregone conclusion.

Personally, I think it went about as well as the Dems could have hoped given that fact.  

They got several days of testimony to put forth the case cogently, and they did.  And the Republicans looked stupid trying to defend it, also for several days.

Granted, we didn't get witnesses, but Republicans have to live with that probably more than Democrats do.

[JimmyJames 12271]

It is impossible to understate what the Republican senate did today. They bent the knee for trump and Moscow Mitch. They are worthless. 

[4th&Five 41701]

 

[David Dennison 19120]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

It is impossible to understate what the Republican senate did today. They bent the knee for trump and Moscow Mitch. They are worthless. 

And the vast majority of them will be rewarded for it. 

Our entire system of federal governance needs to be reformed. It's badly broken. 

 

[hayden_horn 11365]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

It is impossible to understate what the Republican senate did today. They bent the knee for trump and Moscow Mitch. They are worthless. 

yeah, i will be sending a strongly worded letter to cornyn with a screengrab of my meager donation to mj hegar, because fuck him that's why

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Acquittal was a foregone conclusion.

Personally, I think it went about as well as the Dems could have hoped given that fact.  

They got several days of testimony to put forth the case cogently, and they did.  And the Republicans looked stupid trying to defend it, also for several days.

Granted, we didn't get witnesses, but Republicans have to live with that probably more than Democrats do.

Prosecutor: “Your honor I have a witness who can conclusively prove the alleged crime was committed so I am calling witness x.”

Jury: “your honor we don’t want to hear from this witness and vote to just go home.”
 

Judge:  “Case dismissed.”

A FARCE. 
 

[David Dennison 19120]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Prosecutor: “Your honor I have a witness who can conclusively prove the alleged crime was committed so I am calling witness x.”

Jury: “your honor we don’t want to hear from this witness and vote to just go home.”
 

Judge:  “Case dismissed.”

A FARCE. 
 

Actually it's the jury that is dismissing the case, not the judge.

But still a farce.

[Ted Lange 16155]

1 hour ago, JFKFC said:

Cipollone was in the room. He was a fact witness to this crime, and acted as Trump's attorney. My God, this is so illegal. 

This kind of thing gets you disbarred, right?

[Fudge Nuggets 19276]

15 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

If you click on tweet, it's a long thread where he says "Trump did it, but I don't give a fuck"

He getting lit up in the comments. But what does he care?

[TwiceHorn 31685]

14 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The White House has (falsely) claimed info info in his book was “top secret.” If that were actually true Bolton would have already been arrested and the book confiscated. 
 

Actually that may be trumps next move to arrest Bolton for writing a book he doesn’t like, given the republicans blessing of his actions today. 

I have little doubt that Bolton's book has some classified or top secret information.  NSA review of such publications is routine. https://www.nsa.gov/resources/everyone/prepub/

What the NSC (the letter did come from the NSC, not the White House per se) did NOT claim was that the information subject to redaction/deletion was anything pertaining to Ukraine and Trump.  That cat is out of the bag.

Now, it is possible or even likely that Trump is going to subvert this process, which will entail a lawsuit from Bolton, which will be a dandy platform for revealing Ukraine information in a formal setting, likely under oath.  

Edited January 31, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Jiggy-Z 3467]

7 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Prosecutor: “Your honor I have a witness who can conclusively prove the alleged crime was committed so I am calling witness x.”

Jury: “your honor we don’t want to hear from this witness and vote to just go home.”
 

Judge:  “Case dismissed.”

A FARCE. 
 

Dis-missed!!!

[Ted Lange 16155]

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31685]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Prosecutor: “Your honor I have a witness who can conclusively prove the alleged crime was committed so I am calling witness x.”

Jury: “your honor we don’t want to hear from this witness and vote to just go home.”
 

Judge:  “Case dismissed.”

A FARCE. 
 

My point exactly.  I think this actually works better at revealing GOP complicity than hearing cumulative testimony from more witnesses and listening to them bloviate about it and what it means and the witnesses' bias and blah blah blah.

Edited January 31, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[DigglerontheHoof 21284]

20 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

It's far from over for Doturd.

The Supremes will side with trump.  It’s a stone-cold lock.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11824]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, i will be sending a strongly worded letter to cornyn with a screengrab of my meager donation to mj hegar, because fuck him that's why

Call him Comrade Cornyn and tell him hopefully the Russians will kick more in for him to make up for what you’re giving to MJ.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13540]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

Stick a fork in it. Trial is done. 

 

If Trump wins, we will most likely be here again in 18 months.  Double jeopardy doesn't apply here as this isn't a criminal case. In 18 months, either the House can either have collected more testimony via court opinions and/or the Dems can muster more votes.  

The Rubio is sad because he's basically saying that he would vote to impeach if Trump was a Democrat. But impeachment isn't a criminal process, it's political so why expect politics to not come into play.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Too little too late Mr. Kids In Cages.

[TwiceHorn 31685]

13 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The Supremes will side with trump.  It’s a stone-cold lock.

No they won't.

What WILL happen, though, and I would expect this from a court with a liberal majority, as well, is that the court will hold that non-compliance with a congressional subpoena on a blanket assertion of executive privilege is impermissible.  The corollary to that, that I would also expect from a liberal court, is that executive privilege must be asserted in response to specific questions or document requests eliciting potentially privileged information.

That means, the witnesses get called, still assert executive privilege, on a per-question basis, and then we have Nixon v. US redux.

Edited January 31, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 46475]

27 minutes ago, Tuco said:

He should quote from Alexander's, Rubio's, and Murkowski's statements.  Show this jumbled mess of rationalizations for what it is.  Look right at them.  Point at them.  And then come back to the line about how political courage is rare. 

Man, I am with you there.  I think a few "shame on you" statements from the lectern would not only be surprising as a break from decorum, but it might get media play after the fact.

Toothless, for sure, but a show of force nonetheless.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

13 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

He getting lit up in the comments. But what does he care?

Our democracy is in shambles. A political party has turned into a cult whose one job is protect the mafia boss at all costs. But at least Alexander is getting ratio'd like a motherfucker. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13540]

interesting twist the McConnell may agree to a delay to vote for acquittal until Wed.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/politics/impeachment-trial-final-vote-timing/index.html

Quote

The resolution may set up a process that would allow senators to speak about their views on the floor in an open session. Senators who have not spoken on the floor for days are eager to get a chance to speak.

My guess is that some of the GOP senators, especially those in elections want to plead their stance in front of a national audience. Two surprising aspects would be that I don't think these senators will universally say that Trump had the perfect call, and he may face some open criticism.  And he would have the SOTU on Tuesday night prior to the vote.

[deech 2311]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

Can we stop calling it a trial now? That is misleading given that it in no way resembles a trial.

Right after they stop calling it a transcript.

[hayden_horn 11365]

4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

interesting twist the McConnell may agree to a delay to vote for acquittal until Wed.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/politics/impeachment-trial-final-vote-timing/index.html

My guess is that some of the GOP senators, especially those in elections want to plead their stance in front of a national audience. Two surprising aspects would be that I don't think these senators will universally say that Trump had the perfect call, and he may face some open criticism.  And he would have the SOTU on Tuesday night prior to the vote.

it keeps bernard and klobs and warren out of iowa, where the vote is monday. i suspected that mitch would draw it out, once he was assured of victory, and require the democrats to remain in dc.

[Firemans4Horn 18304]

Outdated 250 year old traditions that can never be changed:

electoral college

2 senators per state

2nd amendment

 

But the senate has now declared impeachment is an anachronism that overrules the will of the people. 

[Chad Fuck 17843]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I have little doubt that Bolton's book has some classified or top secret information.  NSA review of such publications is routine. https://www.nsa.gov/resources/everyone/prepub/

What the NSC (the letter did come from the NSC, not the White House per se) did NOT claim was that the information subject to redaction/deletion was anything pertaining to Ukraine and Trump.  That cat is out of the bag.

Now, it is possible or even likely that Trump is going to subvert this process, which will entail a lawsuit from Bolton, which will be a dandy platform for revealing Ukraine information in a formal setting, likely under oath.  

So help me out.  GOP tells me Bolton's book is full of lies and nothing is in there is true.

But NSC says it's chock full of Top Secret shit.

So is it all lies, are true top secrets?

[hayden_horn 11365]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

So help me out.  GOP tells me Bolton's book is full of lies and nothing is in there is true.

But NSC says it's chock full of Top Secret shit.

So is it all lies, are true top secrets?

the answer is nothing matters

[TwiceHorn 31685]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

So help me out.  GOP tells me Bolton's book is full of lies and nothing is in there is true.

But NSC says it's chock full of Top Secret shit.

So is it all lies, are true top secrets?

Lol.  Bottom line is, Bolton's book is coming out and the Ukraine stuff with it.

[TwiceHorn 31685]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Gen X is OK, there are just too few of them to matter.

Well, we probably did spawn the demographic that will save the nation.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13540]

5 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

So help me out.  GOP tells me Bolton's book is full of lies and nothing is in there is true.

But NSC says it's chock full of Top Secret shit.

So is it all lies, are true top secrets?

The NSA and WH also have the ability to read his manuscript and decide to classify areas that weren't previously classified. And I presume they don't have to give reasons and I don't know how Bolton could easily appeal anything himself. I guess he can sue the NSA.

[jimmyjazz 46475]

Trump will probably just classify the entire book.

[TXSG8R 3362]

22 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If Trump wins, we will most likely be here again in 18 months.  Double jeopardy doesn't apply here as this isn't a criminal case. In 18 months, either the House can either have collected more testimony via court opinions and/or the Dems can muster more votes.  

The Rubio is sad because he's basically saying that he would vote to impeach if Trump was a Democrat. But impeachment isn't a criminal process, it's political so why expect politics to not come into play.

That is still a win for the Rs though.  RGB cant hold on for much longer, another supreme would completely tilt the court.  Then you have all the federal judges they can continue to pump out, foreign policy shifts, etc.  I think that math is a big reason a lot of Rs are holding their noses and playing along under a guy that they hated 4 years ago.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The NSA and WH also have the ability to read his manuscript and decide to classify areas that weren't previously classified. And I presume they don't have to give reasons and I don't know how Bolton could easily appeal anything himself. I guess he can sue the NSA.

The president is the original classification authority.  He can say something is classified, and it is.