The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

  I imagine it will be clearly impermissible for the President to invoke a blanket privilege and refuse to produce a witness after the Supremes get ahold of it.

 

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Cute. 

I believe you are referring to the wrong person. Once the President turns to Justice Roberts and sings, "Rescue Me," he will be channeling Aretha not Diana unless you were referring to their hit, "There's No Stopping Us Now."

[TwiceHorn 31520]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Cute. 

We shall see.

[Chad Fuck 17726]

If there were ever a SCOTUS decision against Trump going forward, I would expect it to go like this:

“John Marshall has made his decision;

now let him enforce it.”

[Brandywine 1316]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:39 AM, UpperWestside said:

It just winds up being fatal for the part of the country that wanted something better. Instead we get 51 cowards who do not give one iota about our country. Party and money over country. I am embarrassed to be an American right now. We have so much potential to do good, but we have a raging 5 year old constantly throwing a temper tantrum in the Oval Office and he has an entire party of enablers 

I will say this again. If you are sticking with this party, even if you are a county clerk, you are complicit in this. You are actively supporting our country being run by a thief and someone who lies everytime he opens his fat ass mouth. I hope y'all feel pride sticking it to the libs and acting exactly like the worthless shitstain holding the highest office in the land. 

Trump has his finger on 2 things that scare the living shit out of Republicans. Nuclear button and Twitter. 

[Red Five 40880]

I tuned into a few seconds of closing arguments and heard the ol' "this is all a hoax and an attempt to overturn the 2016 election" defense. I'm confused; I thought they had shifted to "ok he did it and we don't care". 

[heso 2813]

5 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I tuned into a few seconds of closing arguments and heard the ol' "this is all a hoax and an attempt to overturn the 2016 election" defense. I'm confused; I thought they had shifted to "ok he did it and we don't care". 

Depends on the constituency of the senator. 

[Red Five 40880]

Depends on the constituency of the senator. 

I could have sworn I heard Dershowitz say the “it’s no big deal” version. They should all get on the same page.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, Brandywine said:

Next Dem Prez should call Russia and ask them to investigate Don Jr and his father. 

 

Perhaps offer to unfreeze some oligarch accounts if they do.

I'm sure Turkey has some dirt on a Republican or two. I'm also sure there is something Turkey wants or needs from the US.

I bet there are lots of countries with lots of dirt on lots of Republicans.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33884]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Perhaps offer to unfreeze some oligarch accounts if they do.

I'm sure Turkey has some dirt on a Republican or two. I'm also sure there is something Turkey wants or needs from the US.

I bet there are lots of countries with lots of dirt on lots of Republicans.

as does our current president

[Francisco 2.0 32408]

 

 

[Francisco 2.0 32408]

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

On 2/1/2020 at 8:41 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

This is Pelosi the political grandmaster. Getting Roberts on her side.

[SquishMitten 10425]

22 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Good question. I don't think anyone knows when/how executive privilege expires. 

Yes Obama could do that and let the courts sort it out. 

Executive privilege is at its strongest when it implicates national security, so I would guess that that kind of information remains privileged after the presidency.  Less sensitive information probably does not. 

It also only applies if the executive branch wishes it to remain concealed. Even if former presidents can invoke the privilege, Trump would have the ability to overrule that claim by declassifying anything he wanted to.

Editing because I saw you responded to someone else on the same basic thought I had. 

TH: Executive privilege exists apart from any security classification.  It applies to "deliberative" matters in the executive. That is, discussions among the President, White House staff, and Cabinet members pertaining to executive action of some sort.  And documents/records generated in the course of those deliberations. Some of those deliberative matters "implicate" national security even if they aren't, strictly speaking, classified.  Other deliberative matters have nothing to do with national security and could not conceivably be classified, but are privileged nonetheless.

I said declassify, but I used that term generally. I would think the current executive has the authority to release any communications/records from a prior executive regardless of whether they are officially classified. I can't imagine Obama would have the right to prevent Trump from releasing anything he wanted.

Edited February 3, 2020 by SquishMitten

[Biff Tannen 45702]

serious question.  this was kind of floated earlier, but I say we go for broke.

now that the senate has rubber stamped foreign interference, why would the Dems not go to every one of our allies, or our enemies for that matter, and try to get them to turn over whatever they have on the dotard?  You know they have TONS of info.

would be the ultimate "hey, you just said this was cool, what gives?" card.

[TXSG8R 3362]

8 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

It also only applies if the executive branch wishes it to remain concealed. Even if former presidents can invoke the privilege, Trump would have the ability to overrule that claim by declassifying anything he wanted to.

Editing because I saw you responded to someone else on the same basic thought I had. 

TH: Executive privilege exists apart from any security classification.  It applies to "deliberative" matters in the executive. That is, discussions among the President, White House staff, and Cabinet members pertaining to executive action of some sort.  And documents/records generated in the course of those deliberations. Some of those deliberative matters "implicate" national security even if they aren't, strictly speaking, classified.  Other deliberative matters have nothing to do with national security and could not conceivably be classified, but are privileged nonetheless.

I said declassify, but I used that term generally. I would think the current executive has the authority to release any communications/records from a prior executive regardless of whether they are officially classified. I can't imagine Obama would have the right to prevent Trump from releasing anything he wanted.

IANAL, but I think they are different.  The president's classification authority is pretty clear, but the executive privilege would probably still carry over for previous administrations.  If for no other reason than understanding by making that precedent and decloaking previous administrations dirt, you would be setting your own up for release as soon as the next president comes in.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

2 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

IANAL, but I think they are different.  The president's classification authority is pretty clear, but the executive privilege would probably still carry over for previous administrations.  If for no other reason than understanding by making that precedent and decloaking previous administrations dirt, you would be setting your own up for release as soon as the next president comes in.  

That is assuming there will ever be another president and not a string of authoritarian fascist leaders. Trump wins reelection and no information will exist save what they choose  not to rewrite.

[TXSG8R 3362]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

That is assuming there will ever be another president and not a string of authoritarian fascist leaders. Trump wins reelection and no information will exist save what they choose  not to rewrite.

That would require changing or ignoring the presidential records act.  It would be sad (and funny, mostly sad) if the archivist of the US wound up being the guy to take Trump and his administration down.  

[deech 2291]

13 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

serious question.  this was kind of floated earlier, but I say we go for broke.

now that the senate has rubber stamped foreign interference, why would the Dems not go to every one of our allies, or our enemies for that matter, and try to get them to turn over whatever they have on the dotard?  You know they have TONS of info.

would be the ultimate "hey, you just said this was cool, what gives?" card.

Honestly, what happens to the relationship between the US and these allies if Dotard is elected to another four years?  

I mean if you are England or France or Germany - do you actively interfere in US elections on behalf of the party of the idiots who keep losing to the stupidest President in history and his party of criminal cohorts and Putin allies or sit still for 4 more years and hope that the next guy is a pendulum back to the side of truth/justice/a return to a great relationship with a long term ally?

IMHO - all of our allies need to make sure they are all prepared for a full on military war with the United States.  They should be spending hundreds and billions on defense to prepare for the worst case scenario a war against the US

[Disco Strangler 1882]

17 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

IANAL, but I think they are different.  The president's classification authority is pretty clear, but the executive privilege would probably still carry over for previous administrations.  If for no other reason than understanding by making that precedent and decloaking previous administrations dirt, you would be setting your own up for release as soon as the next president comes in.  

Ever notice that IANAL is Lanai spelled backwards?  Coincidence?

[Cairn Horn88 8278]

Adam Schiff...an American hero.  What a speech.

[TXSG8R 3362]

5 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Adam Schiff...an American hero.  What a speech.

Yea, hes got a line of people waiting to shake his hand.  He brought it home.  

[Guest Lobo]

He said it much more eloquently than I would have.  My closing line to the GOP Senators in the room would have been, "And your grandchildren will remember your legacy each and every time they get the shit beat out of them after school.  You brought our Republic to its knees for such an unremarkable man.  And one day soon, you will be brought to your knees for your unremarkable service to the Nation.  And I will be there to violate your wife, ruin your family, and skull-fuck your corpse.  If you had done this for Lincoln, or even Hoover...I would respect you.  But you did this for nothing."  

 

If I'm Gillibrand or Feinstein or Harris (all women in politics look alike to me/noracist), I get out of the way so Schiff can move up to the Senate.  He's needed there more than you are. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Lobo

[TwiceHorn 31520]

54 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

IANAL, but I think they are different.  The president's classification authority is pretty clear, but the executive privilege would probably still carry over for previous administrations.  If for no other reason than understanding by making that precedent and decloaking previous administrations dirt, you would be setting your own up for release as soon as the next president comes in.  

No one really knows how the executive privilege pans out.  We've only had a few court cases over it because normally in this country the branches of government come to a compromise and don't often invoke the judicial "tiebreaker."

Executive privilege would have to be invoked (or waived) by elements of the administration that generated the information.  At some point the privilege would expire because what happened 10, 15, 20 years ago is no longer of great "secret" importance, similar to the way classified information eventually becomes unclassified.  But there is a blurring between "classified" information and executive privilege information.  There's probably complete overlap between classified and executive privileged, but not the other way around.

[Gil Bang 25990]

35 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Adam Schiff...an American hero.  What a speech.

Like fucking James Brown on Letterman.  

One for the ages.

[Gil Bang 25990]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

He said it much more eloquently than I would have.  My closing line to the GOP Senators in the room would have been, "And your grandchildren will remember your legacy each and every time they get the shit beat out of them after school.  You brought our Republic to its knees for such an unremarkable man.  And one day soon, you will be brought to your knees for your unremarkable service to the Nation.  And I will be there to violate your wife, ruin your family, and skull-fuck your corpse.  If you had done this for Lincoln, or even Hoover...I would respect you.  But you did this for nothing."  

 

If I'm Gillibrand, I get out of the way so Schiff can move up to the Senate.  He's needed there more than you are. 

Schiff's from California.  It's Feinstein the he needs to replace. 

[Guest Lobo]

Shit, I actually meant Feinstein.  I don't know I had Gillibrand in my head.  I think something from the previous dropout by her in the pOTUS race.  Whoops.

[woohorn 1131]

Forget it, he's rolling...

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No one really knows how the executive privilege pans out.  We've only had a few court cases over it because normally in this country the branches of government come to a compromise and don't often invoke the judicial "tiebreaker."

Executive privilege would have to be invoked (or waived) by elements of the administration that generated the information.  At some point the privilege would expire because what happened 10, 15, 20 years ago is no longer of great "secret" importance, similar to the way classified information eventually becomes unclassified.  But there is a blurring between "classified" information and executive privilege information.  There's probably complete overlap between classified and executive privileged, but not the other way around.

Yea, thats what I was getting at.  Classification is thoroughly documented and understood.  The release of executive privilege is more of an unwritten rule or gentleman's agreement I would think.  I would assume most presidents wont touch their peer's stuff until they have passed on just to keep from having to answer awkward questions, especially at an advanced age.  

[Bama Chick 28596]

He said it much more eloquently than I would have.  My closing line to the GOP Senators in the room would have been, "And your grandchildren will remember your legacy each and every time they get the shit beat out of them after school.  You brought our Republic to its knees for such an unremarkable man.  And one day soon, you will be brought to your knees for your unremarkable service to the Nation.  And I will be there to violate your wife, ruin your family, and skull-fuck your corpse.  If you had done this for Lincoln, or even Hoover...I would respect you.  But you did this for nothing."  
 
If I'm Gillibrand or Feinstein or Harris (all women in politics look alike to me/noracist), I get out of the way so Schiff can move up to the Senate.  He's needed there more than you are. 

Why the fuck would you include Gillibrand?

Is Schiff moving to New York?

And your whole assertion is frankly dumb as hell; he’s much more effective in House leadership - hopefully SotH someday - than being in the minority in the do-nothing Senate of today.

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Why the fuck would you include Gillibrand?

Is Schiff moving to New York?

And your whole assertion is frankly dumb as hell; he’s much more effective in House leadership - hopefully SotH someday - than being in the minority in the do-nothing Senate of today.

 

I had a brain freeze thinking Feinstein and typed Gillibrand.  I always welcome your scathing rage.  He wouldn't be in a do-nothing Senate.  He could help win the body for his party and Feinstein is on her way out.  You don't think he'd serve as a heavy reminder to the 40+ Senators that would still be serving when he would be elected a few years from now?  My god, to look those folks in the eye each morning...that's infinitely more valuable to defeating this hate-filled GOP than waiting 10 years to serve as Speaker.  

And I don't think yet another White male as a Speaker is a good look for Democrats.  Pelosi is gonna cling to power for another 2-3 election cycles.  After that, I think  a Lujan or Jeffries or Cortez makes for a more compelling ascension to the Gavel.  But yeah, let's keep Schiff out of the Senate because you said so.  

Edited February 3, 2020 by Lobo

[Biff Tannen 45702]

2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Why the fuck would you include Gillibrand?

Is Schiff moving to New York?

And your whole assertion is frankly dumb as hell; he’s much more effective in House leadership - hopefully SotH someday - than being in the minority in the do-nothing Senate of today.

 

[Gil Bang 25990]

53 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Why the fuck would you include Gillibrand?

Is Schiff moving to New York?

And your whole assertion is frankly dumb as hell; he’s much more effective in House leadership - hopefully SotH someday - than being in the minority in the do-nothing Senate of today.

 

I'm not sure that I agree.  We are all impressed with Schiff, but we don't know if he'd be an effective speaker.  Pelosi happens to be really good at it.  Tip O'Neill was one of the greats.  Schiff is a very different person than those people.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33884]

 

[Biff Tannen 45702]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

That oughta do it, thanks very much Joe.

[Satchel 6941]

He's looking for a way to weasel out of voting to convict, but this move could force some GOP senators to criticize dear leader.

[NWBuck 8579]

Schiff's closing argument.

 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

20 hours ago, Disco Strangler said:

Surly attorney here say that Pat Cippolone violated ethics rules by participating in the defense while he was a fact witness to the meeting directing the quid pro quo.  Needs to lose his law license over that.  
 

Did Loretta Lynch ever get sanctioned?

[Satchel 6941]

10 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Did Loretta Lynch ever get sanctioned?

For?

[DDD Dad 14346]

Because of course.

[hobbes2702 13052]

2 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Did Loretta Lynch ever get sanctioned?

Oh tell us why? Please!!!!!

[NameAlreadyInUse 5114]

NM

Edited February 4, 2020 by NameAlreadyInUse

[Tom 2959]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Because of course.

 

 

That's so strange.  Between this and Lindsey Graham saying we need to investigate Biden and his son, it almost sounds like there's some impeachment retaliation going on between Trump, the GOP, and their impeachment rivals.  I can't believe it because just a couple of days ago @GRHorn was saying this was crazy to even suggest and a waste of bandwidth.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Tom

[TDunk 590]

[TwiceHorn 31520]

5 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I'm not sure that I agree.  We are all impressed with Schiff, but we don't know if he'd be an effective speaker.  Pelosi happens to be really good at it.  Tip O'Neill was one of the greats.  Schiff is a very different person than those people.

Schiff is a good to great orator.  He may have or be a great speechwriter.  Some of his strategic and tactical decisions seem to be suspect, though.

[Mo Horn 8853]

It is literally part of their constitutional duty. 

[jimmyjazz 46057]

What the fuck is Sekulow blathering on about?

[jimmyjazz 46057]

"Bulkwark"

"Recuklous".

"House of Representative".

 

Jesus.

[Brandywine 1316]

8 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

It is literally part of their constitutional duty. 

I love how they twist and turn things around to sound credible. Lawyers. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

9 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

It is literally part of their constitutional duty. 

Every accusation is a confession.  Every. Single. Time.  It's truly unbelievable.

[Fozzz 152]

the real upshot of this farce