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The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

tx 3 putt

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TexArcher
TexArcher

Of course we're not getting witnesses and of course Trump is getting acquitted.  This was only going to end one way. Schiff was brilliant.  And none of the people who needed to hear it did.

Zavala
Zavala

DAMN YOU RUSSIA!

Longhorn_Fan68
Longhorn_Fan68

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The Royal We

The Royal We 3072

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Ha. Trump's going to be so pissed. Cue the Romney wanted a cabinet positions, endorsement or something else that the morons who hang on every instance of bullshit will eat up. 

"He begged for it like a dog."

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

In an empty gesture guaranteed to do nothing but generate headlines. Sorry for the cynicism, but it’s easy to make a good speech when you know the outcome isn’t in doubt

Come on man.  He and his whole family will be put through the ringer by a bunch of poo flinging Trumpkins over this.  Let's not act like this was the easy thing for him to do.

Edited by The Royal We
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mdmost

mdmost 43011

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

In an empty gesture guaranteed to do nothing but generate headlines. Sorry for the cynicism, but it’s easy to make a good speech when you know the outcome isn’t in doubt

This is way different than voting for witnesses. This is standing up to the entire GOP power structure because you have actual balls and know right from wrong. It's a huge deal. 

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Amos Moses

Amos Moses 795

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

wow. a republican with some kind of integrity. knock me over with a feather.

He’s been pretty consistent all along.  I have a hard time believing this is just an empty gesture.  In any event, change has to start somewhere, and it takes one before there are others.  To be clear there will be no others here.  But I give him a ton of credit for being thoughtful and rising above the pressures of team first.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

In an empty gesture guaranteed to do nothing but generate headlines. Sorry for the cynicism, but it’s easy to make a good speech when you know the outcome isn’t in doubt

yeah, i hear what you are saying. just like in the vote for witnesses, it's easy to be votes 48 and 49 when you know for a fact that you have the 51 votes you need to say no to witnesses. hell, susan collins can't even bring herself to vote to convict trump after being denied witnesses from the last vote. what a joke she is. i'm just saying the mitt apparently has the courage of his convictions.

Just now, David Dennison said:

Yeah, but it sucks that the Democrats won't be united. I expect a couple of deserters.

yeah, that is also a real shame. who would you expect? manchin?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, i hear what you are saying. just like in the vote for witnesses, it's easy to be votes 48 and 49 when you know for a fact that you have the 51 votes you need to say no to witnesses. hell, susan collins can't even bring herself to vote to convict trump after being denied witnesses from the last vote. what a joke she is. i'm just saying the mitt apparently has the courage of his convictions.

yeah, that is also a real shame. who would you expect? manchin?

Manchin, Jones, Sinema.

We'll see.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29360

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

Manchin, Jones, Sinema.

We'll see.

Jones has already announced he's voting to convict. Don't think Manchin or Sinema have announced their vote yet, but I can't see them voting to acquit now that Romney has announced he's voting to convict.

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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey 12631

Posted
Posted

calculated move by Romney to invoke his "oath before God" rather than his "oath under the Constitution" as commanding him to do this.  it's always smart to use the religion force field to shield from criticism.

"hey, God told me to do it."  Mitt is still gonna get stoned by the cult, but always invoke God for protection.

 

 

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8719

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

it has huge implications of blowback on him.  it is in no way an empty gesture.

He’s up for re-election in 2026, right? I guess I just don’t believe that there will be many political consequences for him. Mean tweets from Trump Jr aren’t really going to affect his day to day. 

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Goredho

Goredho 17413

Posted
Posted

Good on Romney.  I think it's a lot more than an empty gesture.  He's risking his political future and if we're right about where things are headed, possibly more serious ramifications than that.  It also keeps Trump from being able to say its all a hoax perpetrated by do nothing democrats.

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The Royal We

The Royal We 3072

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He’s up for re-election in 2026, right? I guess I just don’t believe that there will be many political consequences for him. Mean tweets from Trump Jr aren’t really going to affect his day to day. 

Right, because that's all the poo flinging magaites do these days.  They would never mail pipe bombs, call in death threats, or threaten other types of physical violence to objects of Trump's scorn.

I'm very cynical of all things GOP at the moment, but I'm going to take Mitt at his word on this one.  This is going to create a significant amount of PITA for him.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29360

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Royal We said:

Right, because that's all the poo flinging magaites do these days.  They would never mail pipe bombs, call in death threats, or threaten other types of physical violence to objects of Trump's scorn.

I'm very cynical of all things GOP at the moment, but I'm going to take Mitt at his word on this one.  This is going to create a significant amount of PITA for him.

Yeah, he deserves some kudos. He's probably confident whatever security he's got is capable of protecting him, but he'll certainly get some scary threats.  I don't think it was much of a political risk though. He's not up for reelection until 2024, it's not even clear he wants to be in the Senate after that, and he certainly doesn't need to worry about money when he leaves office. Politically speaking, he's got nothing to lose and I'm sure he likes being historically significant (the first senator to ever vote to remove a president of their own party), but Trump's brownshirts will certainly harass and threaten him for a long time.

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

They all know they'd vote to remove a Democratic President for half the shit Trump has done. 

For none of it. They already voted to remove Clinton when he did nothing except bang an intern. And this was a president that actually worked fairly well with Republican Congress and ran a balanced budget. 

When you think about it that moment was the beginning or very near the beginning of the radical slide downward that this country has taken

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105180

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

They already voted to remove Clinton when he did nothing except bang an intern.

No, that's not all he did.  He lied under oath.  That matters.  It should always matter.

Now, nothing matters.  Team bullshit like this is part of the reason we are where we are -- the ends justify the means, my team over all, including the Constitution and the rule of law.

I supported Clinton's impeachment.  I supported Trump's impeachment.  I tend to think a lot MORE folks need to be impeached, not a lot fewer.  Then again, maybe I have ridiculously high standards, what with expecting elected officials to follow the law and shit.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

No, that's not all he did.  He lied under oath.  That matters.  It should always matter.

Now, nothing matters.  Team bullshit like this is part of the reason we are where we are -- the ends justify the means, my team over all, including the Constitution and the rule of law.

I supported Clinton's impeachment.  I supported Trump's impeachment.  I tend to think a lot MORE folks need to be impeached, not a lot fewer.  Then again, maybe I have ridiculously high standards, what with expecting elected officials to follow the law and shit.

i mean, so did trump in that questionnaire submitted to mueller. 

but you are definitely right. nothing matters any longer.

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Does anyone really think he would vote this way if the outcome was uncertain

I think so because unless he's going to switch parties and he's doing this to galvanize support for a conservative branch of the democratic party like used to exist under the Dixiecrats what does he have to gain from doing this? It's going to piss off his own party and cause him headaches going forward. 

In this new horrific era of American politics where tribalism and effective polarization reign supreme doing something like this can be a massive pain in your ass. 

Edited by Junior Miller
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troph

troph 24895

Posted
Posted

Romney deserves a lot of credit. But his cover isn’t within the party it’s the brand of conservatives in Utah that will ultimately give him cover. He can run as an independent and win Utah for as long as he wants to. Mormons are not suffering the fool of Donald Trump the way evangelicals are. And while there are matters I take issue with when it comes to their religion, their consistency on morality when it comes to Trump is something is not one of them. I think Romney’s constituents support his vote and will keep him in office as long as he wants to stay.

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, troph said:

Romney deserves a lot of credit. But his cover isn’t within the party it’s the brand of conservatives in Utah that will ultimately give him cover. He can run as an independent and win Utah for as long as he wants to. Mormons are not suffering the fool of Donald Trump the way evangelicals are. And while there are matters I take issue with when it comes to their religion, their consistency on morality when it comes to Trump is something is not one of them. I think Romney’s constituents support his vote and will keep him in office as long as he wants to stay.

By 2024 when Romney is up for re-election, standing up against Trump will be a feather in his cap, not a weight around his neck. Trump will either lose this year and be irrelevant in 2024. Or win and preside over the coming recession while dealing with his ever increasing dementia. He will not be well liked in 2024, regardless of the results this year. 

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Goredho

Goredho 17413

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Posted

While Clinton acted illegally and deserved to be impeached, ultimately what he was guilty of did not result in much public harm.  Perhaps an erosion of public trust in the moral authority of the President, but that's about it.  I probably would not have voted to remove him because of that, but supported censure and similar measures.

Trump harms the public on a weekly if not daily basis.  Some of it is illegal, some of it legal but immoral, some of it are simply probes of what he can get away with that no other President has had the insane audacity to attempt.  He has not lied under oath like Clinton, but that is only because he will not comply with any attempt to get his sworn testimony and has extended that to a circle around him that makes himself immune from the constraints of the law.  The swath of damage he is doing to our democracy is deep and wide and possible irrecoverable.

I don't think there really is any precedent for what we are seeing out of Trump and the GOP protecting him and comparisons to impeachments past are not really valuable.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

While Clinton acted illegally and deserved to be impeached, ultimately what he was guilty of did not result in much public harm.  Perhaps an erosion of public trust in the moral authority of the President, but that's about it.  I probably would not have voted to remove him because of that, but supported censure and similar measures.

Trump harms the public on a weekly if not daily basis.  Some of it is illegal, some of it legal but immoral, some of it are simply probes of what he can get away with that no other President has had the insane audacity to attempt.  He has not lied under oath like Clinton, but that is only because he will not comply with any attempt to get his sworn testimony and has extended that to a circle around him that makes himself immune from the constraints of the law.  The swath of damage he is doing to our democracy is deep and wide and possible irrecoverable.

I don't think there really is any precedent for what we are seeing out of Trump and the GOP protecting him and comparisons to impeachments past are not really valuable.

 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14346

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, that's not all he did.  He lied under oath.  That matters.  It should always matter.

Now, nothing matters.  Team bullshit like this is part of the reason we are where we are -- the ends justify the means, my team over all, including the Constitution and the rule of law.

I supported Clinton's impeachment.  I supported Trump's impeachment.  I tend to think a lot MORE folks need to be impeached, not a lot fewer.  Then again, maybe I have ridiculously high standards, what with expecting elected officials to follow the law and shit.

He also engaged in witness tampering.

I supported Clinton's impeachment and removal as well.

The Democrats paved the way for the result here by choosing to keep their popular president instead of make a tough decision like Romney.

Edited by DDD Dad
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21865

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

It took brass balls to do that, but he garnered a ton of respect from Republicans like myself who have strongly denounced the actions and character of this President.  All these fucking bootlick sycophant Congressmen and Senators will hopefully get their comeuppance for bending over for this assclown.  Good on ya, Mitt.  Wish he were running in the GOP primary against the buffoon.  

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8719

Posted
Posted

This President committed felonies while in the White House and no one gave a shit (writing checks to pay Cohen back for hush money covering up his affair with a porn star was a violation of federal election laws).
 

This President regularly abuses his office to personally profit, and not one elected GOP official gives a shit.

This President has abused the clearance and top secret classification process at an alarming rate and not one elected GOP official gives a shit.

This President, without authority, withheld Congressionally approved aid to Ukraine to get them to announce an investigation into the Bidens. And that’s apparently A-OK. 
 

Nothing matters. Only power matters. 

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8719

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

He also engaged in witness tampering.

I supported Clinton's impeachment and removal as well.

The Democrats paved the way for the result here by choosing to keep their popular president instead of make a tough decision like Romney.

Blaming Dems for GOP abdicating all integrity sure is rich

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Pig Bellmont said:

This President committed felonies while in the White House and no one gave a shit (writing checks to pay Cohen back for hush money covering up his affair with a porn star was a violation of federal election laws).
 

This President regularly abuses his office to personally profit, and not one elected GOP official gives a shit.

This President has abused the clearance and top secret classification process at an alarming rate and not one elected GOP official gives a shit.

This President, without authority, withheld Congressionally approved aid to Ukraine to get them to announce an investigation into the Bidens. And that’s apparently A-OK. 
 

Nothing matters. Only power matters. 

If he committed felonies, you should let Nancy know ASAP.  She left them out of the articles.

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troph

troph 24895

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

That’s not accurate. Andrew Johnson fell only 1 vote short of conviction.

That’s not what I’m referring to, this is the first time there has been any - as in a single vote of - bipartisan support.  To me that’s closer than the likely one vote difference compared to Johnson.

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