The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Even if he did, he’d be an independent that caucused with them...kinda like Bernie and Angus with the DNC

You don’t caucus with a party that kicked you out. C’mon. 

[hpslugga 4062]

5 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

But no Democrat voted to convict. It’s imprecisely stated, but that’s what he was driving at.

And it’s still not much of an accomplishment. A single GOP senator voting to convict is kinda like someone in Hawaii voting for David Duke as president. Yeah they could do it, but let’s not pretend it’s of any significance.

 

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

You don’t caucus with a party that kicked you out. C’mon. 

You assume he has principles. He doesn’t. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

And it’s still not much of an accomplishment. A single GOP senator voting to convict is kinda like someone in Hawaii voting for David Duke as president. Yeah they could do it, but let’s not pretend it’s of any significance.

 

You assume he has principles. He doesn’t. 

 

Romney voting to convict has significance because he is in fact actually fucking right. It robs trump of his partisan bullshit argument, it takes away the corrupt GOP of their cover, and it gives cover to the vulnerable dems who voted to do that right thing. What is your deal here minimizing this? It is in fact very significant. Why, because he and the dems are absolutely mother fucking right. Do you disagree? 

[TwiceHorn 31514]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

No.  There are serious separation of powers issue on that.  I think of the two, that one was by far the weakest claim as to whether obstruction of congress can be a high crime or misdemeanor without first securing a judicial ruling on the testimony or documents sought.

 

Seriously, though, if you refused to produce a witness in a federal employment discrimination case simply because some of the information known by that witness was privileged, what would you expect to happen?

There's a right way to do that, and Trump didn't do it.  There's an asshole, obstructionist, sanctionable way to do that and Trump did it.

The way Trump did it is going to require two trips through the judiciary.  It's obstructionist.  Every court in the country would call it that.

And you sure as fuck don't get to say "this lawsuit is a witchhunt, a hoax" and refuse to participate.  If that's the actual case, prove it.

Edited February 5, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[David Dennison 18940]

8 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

And it’s still not much of an accomplishment. A single GOP senator voting to convict is kinda like someone in Hawaii voting for David Duke as president. Yeah they could do it, but let’s not pretend it’s of any significance.

You assume he has principles. He doesn’t. 

It's significant for historians. Mitt Romney's vote is the only one that will be singled out 50 or 100 years from now.

[hpslugga 4062]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Romney voting to convict has significance because he is in fact actually fucking right.

So is a broken watch twice a day.

Quote

It robs trump of his partisan bullshit argument

You’re mistaken if you think that either Trump won’t peddle it all the same, that his minions in the GOP and on Fox News won’t peddle them all the same, and/or that it’ll have any meaningful effect this coming November. As others have said, so many voters will forget the whole thing when that comes around. In fact, Romney himself will undo his vote by endorsing Trump. He might do it very quietly, or maybe he’ll even take the “brave” step of not endorsing anyone, but he sure as shit isn’t endorsing the DNC nominee.

Quote

it takes away the corrupt GOP of their cover

Whose mind did he change?

Quote

and it gives cover to the vulnerable dems who voted to do that right thing. What is your deal here minimizing this? 

I’m not minimizing. You’re maximizing. Hell if it were up to me and I had to impeach trump, I wouldn’t have even wasted my time with this Ukraine business. There were other avenues that they could have pursued and the Democrats chose not to. I wonder why.

Edited February 5, 2020 by hpslugga

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

28 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Again, what exactly can Trump/the GOP actually do?

Romney is a multi-millionaire senator who presides over a seat that hasn’t belonged to a democrat since January of 1977.

Trump, as well as the GOP, literally has nothing to threaten him with. He’s rich and the Mormons fucking love him. This is a guy who carried Utah in the 2012 election with a percentage that rivaled Reagan’s in 1984.

In the Senate midterm election, facing the so called Blue Wave, he still managed to capture nearly 2/3rds of the vote. The only way that Mitt Romney loses that seat is if he retires or dies. He’s not getting voted out and he won’t face expulsion either. And even if they could manage to get him out, he’s not going to be suffering. Again, the guy’s net worth is somewhere in the $200 million range, and he cares about that more than he does being a senator.

The only thing rich fucks like that care about is their legacy since there’s nothing else to really worry about. He wouldn’t want to be known as the deciding vote, and in that alternate reality, he would be. 

I appreciate your willingness to concede the pettiness and vindictiveness of that party, but let’s not kid ourselves into believing that this was some brave act of heroism. It wasn’t. If he was as principled as you’re making him out to be, he would announce today that he’s switching parties. Watch him do exactly not that. Watch him, instead, take to Twitter how fucking great he thinks Rush Limbaugh is...

 

oh wait, he already did that.

this is all aggressively dumb

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

25 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Again, what exactly can Trump/the GOP actually do?

Romney is a multi-millionaire senator who presides over a seat that hasn’t belonged to a democrat since January of 1977.

Trump, as well as the GOP, literally has nothing to threaten him with. He’s rich and the Mormons fucking love him. This is a guy who carried Utah in the 2012 election with a percentage that rivaled Reagan’s in 1984.

In the Senate midterm election, facing the so called Blue Wave, he still managed to capture nearly 2/3rds of the vote. The only way that Mitt Romney loses that seat is if he retires or dies. He’s not getting voted out and he won’t face expulsion either. And even if they could manage to get him out, he’s not going to be suffering. Again, the guy’s net worth is somewhere in the $200 million range, and he cares about that more than he does being a senator.

The only thing rich fucks like that care about is their legacy since there’s nothing else to really worry about. He wouldn’t want to be known as the deciding vote, and in that alternate reality, he would be. 

I appreciate your willingness to concede the pettiness and vindictiveness of that party, but let’s not kid ourselves into believing that this was some brave act of heroism. It wasn’t. If he was as principled as you’re making him out to be, he would announce today that he’s switching parties. Watch him do exactly not that. Watch him, instead, take to Twitter how fucking great he thinks Rush Limbaugh is...

 

oh wait, he already did that.

So that I have a point of reference. What constitutes rich folks? $15,000 $50,000, $100,000 in a checking account? Please share what you define as rich.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

So is a broken watch twice a day.

You’re mistaken if you think that either Trump won’t peddle it all the same, that his minions in the GOP and on Fox News won’t peddle them all the same, and/or that it’ll have any meaningful effect this coming November. As others have said, so many voters will forget the whole thing when that comes around.

Whose mind did he change?

I’m not minimizing. You’re maximizing. Hell if it were up to me and I had to impeach trump, I wouldn’t have even wasted my time with this Ukraine business. There were other avenues that they could have pursued and the Democrats chose not to. I wonder why.

You sound like you’re glad Trump is still our president, blame the dems for everything, and think Romney has no backbone because he voted to convict a president of his own party.

Gary Johnson voter? 

[hpslugga 4062]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

You sound like you’re glad Trump is still our president

I just told you that there were better charges to stick him with. You need to pump the brakes on that. In fact I’ve got archived Facebook Live videos (weekly thing I do) on which I’ve categorically stated Trump should be tried for war crimes, convicted, and executed, so I’m certain that I’ve been a far harsher critic of his than you have.

Quote

blame the dems for everything

Such as?

Quote

Gary Johnson voter? 

Gary Johnson is a moron.

I voted Bernie in the primary of 2016, plan to do it again in a few weeks, and voted Hillary in the general.

Was there anything else?

Edited February 5, 2020 by hpslugga

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, hpslugga said:

I just told you that there were better charges to stick him with. You need to pump the brakes on that.

Such as?

Gary Johnson is a moron.

I voted Bernie in the primary of 2016, plan to do it again in a few weeks, and voted Hillary in the general.

Was there anything else?

Nah I’ll just stop arguing with you. We disagree on Romney. No biggie. 

[Gil Bang 25984]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

They do have that right.  They do not have the right to get to determine what and what is not covered by executive privilege.  That is for the courts.

and of course, you are aware that executive privilege was never asserted, but you don't give a fuck. 

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

https://www.axios.com/mitt-romney-trump-impeachment-vote-note-c09e8704-0196-41e9-8d7a-5d640f06c7f7.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

 

 

[4th&Five 41571]

 

[yoladu 4094]

44 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Wtf?

Clinton had 10 GOP senators vote for acquittal on one charge and 5 on the other. 

indeed. my mistake.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Mitt Romney’s speech just held up a mirror to the GOP Senators and guys like Johnny Sack, showing them exactly what pieces of shit they actually are by supporting their false God. 

They won’t learn, but that’s ok. Bernie is readying the gulags for them anyway. 

[yoladu 4094]

12 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.axios.com/mitt-romney-trump-impeachment-vote-note-c09e8704-0196-41e9-8d7a-5d640f06c7f7.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

 

 

polite, but not so thinly veiled

Edited February 6, 2020 by yoladu

[Nivek 16949]

And in the non-under-oath statements, wagging his finger at us and lying to our face pissed off a lot of people.
Remember when people got pissed off about a POTUS lying to their face one time?  Seems like 11,000,0000,0000 years ago.

Funny how angry the republicans were over bill lying about an affair. Yet they cared so little when Ronnie lied(iran contra), Bush (no new taxes, drugs sold across the street) and W’s WMDs and 17,000 lies by trump and counting.

[Nivek 16949]

I think it's reasonable to point out that the Republican Party 2020 is not the Republican Party 2008.  What Romney did today is far more substantial than it would have been 12 years ago.

You Lie!

[Jack Straw 2954]

99% of Republicans support a President who has told literally tens of thousands of blatant lies.  they LOVE Trump's dishonesty - it is an endearing quality to those who are themselves fundamentally dishonest people

[Sbbruin 21865]

31 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

 I’ve got archived Facebook Live videos (weekly thing I do) on which I’ve categorically stated Trump should be tried for war crimes, convicted, and executed, so I’m certain that I’ve been a far harsher critic of his than you have.

 

[Gil Bang 25984]

 

[Biff Tannen 45695]

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Says it all really.  "As a party"

[Tuco 5077]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

In case anyone is interested, here are the R senators up for re-election (or retiring) this year:

Elections leading to the next Congress[edit]

In these general elections, the winners will be elected for the term beginning January 3, 2021. All of the elections involve the Class 2 seats; ordered by state.

• Matt Innis (Republican)^[101]
• Chris Janicek (Democratic)^[102]
• Dennis Frank Maček (Democratic)^[102]
• Larry Marvin (Democratic)^[102]
• Angie Philips (Democratic)^[103]
• Ben Sasse (Republican)^[102]
• Alisha Shelton (Democratic) ^[104]
• Dan Wik (Democratic)^[105]

I'm going to shill for the Nebraska race.... 

I don't know Innis, Macek, or Marvin. 

I've known Chris Janicek for years, having played volleyball with a friend of his.  He's a local business owner (bakery), and has been traveling across Nebraska to raise funds.  He could use your support. http://www.janicekforsenate2020.com/

My wife knows Angie Phillips well, being in some political groups with her.  She grew up in rural Nebraska, and lives in Omaha.  She was one of the organizations of the 2017 Omaha Women's March. She could use your support. VoteAngieForSenate.com

Alisha Shelton is a mental health practitioner , recently working at one of the reservations.  There she saw how people were rationing their insulation, and has health care as her major issue. She could use your support. https://sheltonforsenate.com/

These are normal people with limited funds, trying fight a very uphill battle. Pick one, pick all, or pick someone in your state. It's all good. 

And this is Ben Sasse's rationalization for why it's okay for the President to use my tax dollars to attack a political rival. 

 

[Gil Bang 25984]

, Republicans Admit They Acquitted Trump Out of Fear

One journalist remarked to me, “How in the world can these senators walk around here upright when they have no backbone?”

By Sherrod Brown

Mr. Brown is a Democratic senator from Ohio.

• Feb. 5, 2020
• •  
  •  
  •  
  • 491

 

 

 

 

Fear of President Trump guides many Republicans in Congress. Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times

Not guilty. Not guilty.

In the United States Senate, like in many spheres of life, fear does the business.

Think back to the fall of 2002, just a few weeks before that year’s crucial midterm elections, when the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq was up for a vote. A year after the 9/11 attacks, hundreds of members of the House and the Senate were about to face the voters of a country still traumatized by terrorism.

Senator Patty Murray, a thoughtful Democrat from Washington State, still remembers “the fear that dominated the Senate leading up to the Iraq war.”

“You could feel it then,” she told me, “and you can feel that fear now” — chiefly among Senate Republicans.

 

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

 

For those of us who, from the start, questioned the wisdom of the Iraq war, our sense of isolation surely wasn’t much different from the loneliness felt in the 1950s by Senator Herbert Lehman of New York, who confronted Joe McCarthy’s demagogy only to be abandoned by so many of his colleagues. Nor was it so different from what Senator George McGovern must have felt when he announced his early opposition to the Vietnam War and was then labeled a traitor by many inside and outside of Congress.

 

Read another view by Ohio’s other senator, Rob Portman

Opinion | Rob Portman

Why I’m Voting to Acquit President Trump

Feb. 5, 2020

History has indeed taught us that when it comes to the instincts that drive us, fear has no rival. As the lead House impeachment manager, Representative Adam Schiff, has noted, Robert Kennedy spoke of how “moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle.”

 

Playing on that fear, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, sought a quick impeachment trial for President Trump with as little attention to it as possible. Reporters, who usually roam the Capitol freely, have been cordoned off like cattle in select areas. Mr. McConnell ordered limited camera views in the Senate chamber so only presenters — not absent senators — could be spotted.

And barely a peep from Republican lawmakers.

One journalist remarked to me, “How in the world can these senators walk around here upright when they have no backbone?”

 

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

 

Fear has a way of bending us.

Late in the evening on day four of the trial I saw it, just 10 feet across the aisle from my seat at Desk 88, when Mr. Schiff told the Senate: “CBS News reported last night that a Trump confidant said that Republican senators were warned, ‘Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.’” The response from Republicans was immediate and furious. Several groaned and protested and muttered, “Not true.” But pike or no pike, Mr. Schiff had clearly struck a nerve. (In the words of Lizzo: truth hurts.)

Of course, the Republican senators who have covered for Mr. Trump love what he delivers for them. But Vice President Mike Pence would give them the same judges, the same tax cuts, the same attacks on workers’ rights and the environment. So that’s not really the reason for their united chorus of “not guilty.”

For the stay-in-office-at-all-cost representatives and senators, fear is the motivator. They are afraid that Mr. Trump might give them a nickname like “Low Energy Jeb” and “Lyin’ Ted,” or that he might tweet about their disloyalty. Or — worst of all — that he might come to their state to campaign against them in the Republican primary. They worry:

“Will the hosts on Fox attack me?”

“Will the mouthpieces on talk radio go after me?”

“Will the Twitter trolls turn their followers against me?”

My colleagues know they all just might. There’s an old Russian proverb: The tallest blade of grass is the first cut by the scythe. In private, many of my colleagues agree that the president is reckless and unfit. They admit his lies. And they acknowledge what he did was wrong. They know this president has done things Richard Nixon never did. And they know that more damning evidence is likely to come out.

So watching the mental contortions they perform to justify their votes is painful to behold: They claim that calling witnesses would have meant a never-ending trial. They tell us they’ve made up their minds, so why would we need new evidence? They say to convict this president now would lead to the impeachment of every future president — as if every president will try to sell our national security to the highest bidder.

I have asked some of them, “If the Senate votes to acquit, what will you do to keep this president from getting worse?” Their responses have been shrugs and sheepish looks.

They stop short of explicitly saying that they are afraid. We all want to think that we always stand up for right and fight against wrong. But history does not look kindly on politicians who cannot fathom a fate worse than losing an upcoming election. They might claim fealty to their cause — those tax cuts — but often it’s a simple attachment to power that keeps them captured.

As Senator Murray said on the Senate floor in 2002, “We can act out of fear” or “we can stick to our principles.” Unfortunately, in this Senate, fear has had its way. In November, the American people will have theirs.

Sherrod Brown (@SenSherrodBrown), a Democrat, is the senior United States senator from Ohio and is the author of “Desk 88: Eight Progressive Senators Who Changed America.”

The Times is committed to publishin

[bolverk 29700]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

It certainly ain't the most beautiful or romantic language -- though sexier than you'd realize if whispered in your ear -- but their creative use of compound nouns certainly lends German with an impressive degree of precision.

Steigbügelhalter

steigen + Bügel + Halter

To step + handle/rod + holder

In other words, this is a handle/rod thingy you step into and he'll hold your foot. The instructions are built into the word itself.

Don't ask me how we came up with the damn word "stirrup." It don't make no sense. What the hell are we stirring up?

Edited February 6, 2020 by bolverk
PS Fuck Trump & all his stirrup holding cowards.

[TwiceHorn 31514]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

I also think that eventually enough people will just get tired of the continual freak show that is DJT and want to move back to more stable times.  We'll see.

As much as anything else, personal disdain for the asshole, and dislike of his "policies," this is me.

[Incredulity 11679]

52 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Funny how angry the republicans were over bill lying about an affair. Yet they cared so little when Ronnie lied(iran contra), Bush (no new taxes, drugs sold across the street) and W’s WMDs and 17,000 lies by trump and counting.

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

[Cacti 191]

On a lighter note—and before Romney’s vote is old news—I’d like to remind Surly that there was a prominent poster who, last year, said they would eat a MAGA hat if even one Republican voted to convict. I don’t remember who said that, so the would-be-hat-eater needs to fess up. With pictures, please.

[Nivek 16949]

Republicans look up to Neville Chamberlain and think, wow, that guy is tough!  Spineless, shit they don't even have a notochord.

[Nivek 16949]

8 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

Well one is a myth and the other was actually true.  I know you are so down the rabbit hole you can't tell if we were always at war with eurasia.  Trade Wars are easy!  Mexico is going to pay for it!  We're all going to be so rich!  The debt was going to be fixed!  We care about fiscal conservation!  I won't golf!  I'll release my taxes.  Obama is a secret Kenya Muslim who attends Church run by a pissed off Vietnam Vet! 

[Incredulity 11679]

14 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Well one is a myth and the other was actually true.  I know you are so down the rabbit hole you can't tell if we were always at war with eurasia.  Trade Wars are easy!  Mexico is going to pay for it!  We're all going to be so rich!  The debt was going to be fixed!  We care about fiscal conservation!  I won't golf!  I'll release my taxes.  Obama is a secret Kenya Muslim who attends Church run by a pissed off Vietnam Vet! 

You should look into gainful employment.

you’ll have more self respect.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

And she will do it.

 

[Biff Tannen 45695]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

, Republicans Admit They Acquitted Trump Out of Fear

One journalist remarked to me, “How in the world can these senators walk around here upright when they have no backbone?”

By Sherrod Brown

Mr. Brown is a Democratic senator from Ohio.

• Feb. 5, 2020
• •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  • 491

 

 

 

 

Fear of President Trump guides many Republicans in Congress. Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times

Not guilty. Not guilty.

In the United States Senate, like in many spheres of life, fear does the business.

Think back to the fall of 2002, just a few weeks before that year’s crucial midterm elections, when the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq was up for a vote. A year after the 9/11 attacks, hundreds of members of the House and the Senate were about to face the voters of a country still traumatized by terrorism.

Senator Patty Murray, a thoughtful Democrat from Washington State, still remembers “the fear that dominated the Senate leading up to the Iraq war.”

“You could feel it then,” she told me, “and you can feel that fear now” — chiefly among Senate Republicans.

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

 

For those of us who, from the start, questioned the wisdom of the Iraq war, our sense of isolation surely wasn’t much different from the loneliness felt in the 1950s by Senator Herbert Lehman of New York, who confronted Joe McCarthy’s demagogy only to be abandoned by so many of his colleagues. Nor was it so different from what Senator George McGovern must have felt when he announced his early opposition to the Vietnam War and was then labeled a traitor by many inside and outside of Congress.

Read another view by Ohio’s other senator, Rob Portman

Opinion | Rob Portman

Why I’m Voting to Acquit President Trump

Feb. 5, 2020

History has indeed taught us that when it comes to the instincts that drive us, fear has no rival. As the lead House impeachment manager, Representative Adam Schiff, has noted, Robert Kennedy spoke of how “moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle.”

 

Playing on that fear, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, sought a quick impeachment trial for President Trump with as little attention to it as possible. Reporters, who usually roam the Capitol freely, have been cordoned off like cattle in select areas. Mr. McConnell ordered limited camera views in the Senate chamber so only presenters — not absent senators — could be spotted.

And barely a peep from Republican lawmakers.

One journalist remarked to me, “How in the world can these senators walk around here upright when they have no backbone?”

ADVERTISEMENT

Continue reading the main story

 

Fear has a way of bending us.

Late in the evening on day four of the trial I saw it, just 10 feet across the aisle from my seat at Desk 88, when Mr. Schiff told the Senate: “CBS News reported last night that a Trump confidant said that Republican senators were warned, ‘Vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.’” The response from Republicans was immediate and furious. Several groaned and protested and muttered, “Not true.” But pike or no pike, Mr. Schiff had clearly struck a nerve. (In the words of Lizzo: truth hurts.)

Of course, the Republican senators who have covered for Mr. Trump love what he delivers for them. But Vice President Mike Pence would give them the same judges, the same tax cuts, the same attacks on workers’ rights and the environment. So that’s not really the reason for their united chorus of “not guilty.”

For the stay-in-office-at-all-cost representatives and senators, fear is the motivator. They are afraid that Mr. Trump might give them a nickname like “Low Energy Jeb” and “Lyin’ Ted,” or that he might tweet about their disloyalty. Or — worst of all — that he might come to their state to campaign against them in the Republican primary. They worry:

“Will the hosts on Fox attack me?”

“Will the mouthpieces on talk radio go after me?”

“Will the Twitter trolls turn their followers against me?”

My colleagues know they all just might. There’s an old Russian proverb: The tallest blade of grass is the first cut by the scythe. In private, many of my colleagues agree that the president is reckless and unfit. They admit his lies. And they acknowledge what he did was wrong. They know this president has done things Richard Nixon never did. And they know that more damning evidence is likely to come out.

So watching the mental contortions they perform to justify their votes is painful to behold: They claim that calling witnesses would have meant a never-ending trial. They tell us they’ve made up their minds, so why would we need new evidence? They say to convict this president now would lead to the impeachment of every future president — as if every president will try to sell our national security to the highest bidder.

I have asked some of them, “If the Senate votes to acquit, what will you do to keep this president from getting worse?” Their responses have been shrugs and sheepish looks.

They stop short of explicitly saying that they are afraid. We all want to think that we always stand up for right and fight against wrong. But history does not look kindly on politicians who cannot fathom a fate worse than losing an upcoming election. They might claim fealty to their cause — those tax cuts — but often it’s a simple attachment to power that keeps them captured.

As Senator Murray said on the Senate floor in 2002, “We can act out of fear” or “we can stick to our principles.” Unfortunately, in this Senate, fear has had its way. In November, the American people will have theirs.

Sherrod Brown (@SenSherrodBrown), a Democrat, is the senior United States senator from Ohio and is the author of “Desk 88: Eight Progressive Senators Who Changed America.”

The Times is committed to publishin

Well said.

 

[Biff Tannen 45695]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

So an imagined $2500 is enough to sell out your country?  Fucking traitor.

[Incredulity 11679]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So an imagined $2500 is enough to sell out your country?  Fucking traitor.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

[jimmyjazz 46001]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

Should have been easy for your savior DJT to fix, but hey, who knew he lied right to your face?  You must feel really stupid right now.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

Obamacare works.  If you don’t. 

[Gil Bang 25984]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

I'm going to give you a serious response, although I suspect you don't deserve one. 

Yes, Obama stated, incorrectly, that "you can keep your doctor". 

It turns out, that was not 100% correct.  

Comparing that to Trump's lies is beyond moronic.  If I said "the niners will win the super bowl" before the game, am I a liar?  No, I made a bad prediction.

Trump would tell you today that not only did the niners win, but that they won the greatest victory in the history of all of sports.   And take that hypothetical lie, and multiply it by 20000 or so.  

Of course, you already know this.   But you don't care because you slobber on the tiny, orange, mushroom cock. 

[Gil Bang 25984]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Obamacare works.  If you don’t. 

I do, sir.  And I happen to purchase my insurance from the CA exchange.  And I'm saving money by doing so.   

I assume you work for a firm and get your insurance provided by them.  If so, kindly shut the fuck up. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

22 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I do, sir.  And I happen to purchase my insurance from the CA exchange.  And I'm saving money by doing so.   

I assume you work for a firm and get your insurance provided by them.  If so, kindly shut the fuck up. 

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   
 

I get better coverage with a CIGNA ppo for about $1400 less a month in premiums with significantly lower deductibles and out of pockets.  And 3 doctor visits per year per person that aggregate for the family and rollover at no cost.  
 

All aca did and does was fuck over working people in employee plans who don’t have preexisting conditions to subsidize people who do.  And then of course subsidies for low income people.  
 

so yeah, people who already had insurance get to pay sky high premiums with the added bonus of their deductibles and out of pockets exploding due to them paying for other people’s risk pool.   Best of fucking both worlds.  Expensive insurance you can’t afford to use.  
 

there was no cost saving functions in Obamacare.  All it did was increase costs and redistribute wealth.  
 

you want to really save money? Investigate a non ACA compliant plan assuming your family is healthy. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Johnny Sack

[Nivek 16949]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

You should look into gainful employment.

you’ll have more self respect.

Deflect!  Deflect!  

[Mdhorn 5975]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So an imagined $2500 is enough to sell out your country?  Fucking traitor.

$2500 is a real cheap whore in the political circuit.  Sack is right though, Republican interests serve money rather than country. Wonder if Sack spits, swallows or just straight chugs. My guess is it's all the same when $2500 is your selling point.  Has to be about quantity at that price.  

What gets me is their open disdain for anything military--it's why they support people who defer while continuously putting soldiers in harms way.  Didn't DOTARD give out a medal of freedom to another deferment soldier Rush Limbaugh?  But I guess they now support whatever country puts money in Trumps coffers for "protection" -- just ensuring US military lives protect some other country or Trump's private interests in the Middle East. As long as that country isn't in NATO, right?  

If anybody ever asks how America split apart--it's because $2500 for some was just worth more.  

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Mdhorn

[horn4life 3778]

So what kind of GOP whore do you think is the best kind?

The kind that is willing to have their wife called ugly and their dad called a presidential assassin? 

Or the kind that fucks a porn star,  and then sticks the same dick into his green card wife?

Or more of a Susan Collins' hope of a lesson by ignoring her oath to God (isn't that sort of a GOP Joke now?) and country?

Or maybe a man I actually used to think had some principles? I thought Lindsey was an independent thinker and an ally against government taking the wrong path. Sadly in the end , Trump turned him into just  another cocksucker.  I would rather characterize the only gay member of the GOP Senate differently, but oh how Lindsay misses the moral compass of John McCain. 

I will also say that I have always respected courage. Doing the hard right thing is alway the best path, even if not always the most profitable. I wonder how I would answer a smart grandchild about my complete lack of curiosity about truth as I tried to give them wisdom.  Not the kind of wisdom a shitty parent pretends to give their children, but the sort of wisdom that only a person of honor can relay to their offspring. It's good to know that out of 250+ Republicans, one has honor.

What kind of GOP whore do you thing is the best for our country?

 

PS- johnny before you respond I can probably get you laid at most any bar.  No need to always go fo da hoe.

 

[bolverk 29700]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   
 

I get better coverage with a CIGNA ppo for about $1400 less a month in premiums with significantly lower deductibles and out of pockets.  And 3 doctor visits per year per person that aggregate for the family and rollover at no cost.  
 

All aca did and does was fuck over working people in employee plans who don’t have preexisting conditions to subsidize people who do.  And then of course subsidies for low income people.  
 

so yeah, people who already had insurance get to pay sky high premiums with the added bonus of their deductibles and out of pockets exploding due to them paying for other people’s risk pool.   Best of fucking both worlds.  Expensive insurance you can’t afford to use.  
 

there was no cost saving functions in Obamacare.  All it did was increase costs and redistribute wealth.  
 

you want to really save money? Investigate a non ACA compliant plan assuming your family is healthy. 

Agreed that the ACA didn't have sufficient cost control mechanisms, but premiums were already skyrocketing before its passage. That said, the rate of increase did slow somewhat, but it's entirely a joke to suggest that a noncompliant plan is a "good deal" so long as you don't get sick or injured, especially if you're already living on the margins.

Of course, your response would likely be: "Don't be a poor."

Sack O'Shit: "Human beings, you see, have no inherent value other than the money they earn. Cats have value, for example, because they provide pleasure to humans. But a deadbeat on welfare? Well, they have negative value. So, ipso facto, a rich man's death is more tragic than the death of a wasteling."

 

[StruggleBus 3922]

52 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I do, sir.  And I happen to purchase my insurance from the CA exchange.  And I'm saving money by doing so.   

I assume you work for a firm and get your insurance provided by them.  If so, kindly shut the fuck up. 

Do you have pre-existing conditions? Are you low income?

I’m not interested in arguing the Trump/Obama shit. But if you can answer no to both of those questions, you’re doing yourself a huge disservice by purchasing ACA compliant insurance from an exchange.

[bolverk 29700]

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

Do you have pre-existing conditions? Are you low income?

I’m not interested in arguing the Trump/Obama shit. But if you can answer no to both of those questions, you’re doing yourself a huge disservice by purchasing ACA compliant insurance from an exchange.

Until you're not, then it's useless.

[StruggleBus 3922]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Until you're not, then it's useless.

I’m not following. What would the logic be for a moderate/high earning healthy person purchasing insurance through an exchange?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

35 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

assuming your family is healthy. 

This shit is very complicated and I won't get into it all here but this is what cracks me up.  BOTH fucking sides say (only one means it) that you and your family will continue to be protected by whatever the R's come up with to replace ObamaCare.  You can't go around comparing shit and argue based on 'if you're healthy'.  And that's exactly why Trump and the R's talk as much shit as you do...yet have come up with nothing.  The pre-existing conditions thing is a very real problem.  In fact it's a bigger problem now - with the exchanges insurance companies are more eager than ever to dump your ass if you get expensive...then go to an exchange where they can recoup a lot more on the same damn patient.  So going back on ObamaCare now is much harder than it would have been if they did it on day 2.  You're opening up Pandora's box and the R's will talk shit til they're blue in the face and come up with nada.  

[pacman 7366]

The very essence of our current government, talk shit but come up with nada.