The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[bolverk 29700]

10 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

I’m not following. What would the logic be for a moderate/high earning healthy person purchasing insurance through an exchange?

Your answer: "Insurance."

Meaning protection from the unpredictable. The way that works is to equitably distribute that risk across the universe of patients.

You and your loved ones will need real care one day. It's inevitable, and insurance companies will do everything in their power to not cover the expenses. Going with the Yugo model "insures" you'll get fucked.

For a better answer, read ChiTown's response below.

Edited February 6, 2020 by bolverk
Or above.

[Bozo_Casanova 26511]

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   
 
I get better coverage with a CIGNA ppo for about $1400 less a month in premiums with significantly lower deductibles and out of pockets.  And 3 doctor visits per year per person that aggregate for the family and rollover at no cost.  
 
All aca did and does was fuck over working people in employee plans who don’t have preexisting conditions to subsidize people who do.  And then of course subsidies for low income people.  
 
so yeah, people who already had insurance get to pay sky high premiums with the added bonus of their deductibles and out of pockets exploding due to them paying for other people’s risk pool.   Best of fucking both worlds.  Expensive insurance you can’t afford to use.  
 
there was no cost saving functions in Obamacare.  All it did was increase costs and redistribute wealth.  
 
you want to really save money? Investigate a non ACA compliant plan assuming your family is healthy. 

$18k? Shit, if you pony up the extra $2k you could pay to watch rats fuck twice.

[Burt 4089]

9 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

clinton? he lied about fucking the intern. 

 

9 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

He lied about his history of having sex with subordinates in the workplace, which is pretty fucking pertinent in a workplace sexual-harassment lawsuit.

Yeah, but its not what he was originally investigated about.  He was investigated for something that may have happened before he was even president (Whitewater).  When that fell through, they pinned a blow job on him.  Very small potatoes, and, in my mind, insignificant.  Especially compared to this current shit show.

[tx 3 putt 77246]

All the house Dems did was hand him a huge victory, during an election year. Very short sighted on their part. I hope he does go after some of them, serves them right for being so dumb 

all their time and effort would have been better spent flipping state houses and focusing on the November election. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by tx 3 putt

[JimmyJames 12271]

A good barometer when determining how triggered the Trumpkins are is how much is the Sack posting in the surly cloak room. And the last couple days he’s been on a posting rampage/bender. So you know it’s bad.
 

Triggered level at level 10 with the Pelosi hate rally speech rip and senator mitt telling all the Trumpkins the truth they don’t want to hear. That they are all a bunch of pieces of shit. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21208]

18 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

A good barometer when determining how triggered the Trumpkins are is how much is the Sack posting in the surly cloak room. And the last couple days he’s been on a posting rampage/bender. So you know it’s bad.
 

Triggered level at level 10 with the Pelosi hate rally speech rip and senator mitt telling all the Trumpkins the truth they don’t want to hear. That they are all a bunch of pieces of shit. 

These men are cowards, Jimmy.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 hours ago, Incredulity said:

You forgot the $2500 I was going to save on health insurance not to mention keeping my plan and doctor. NBD

Sorry those kinds of lies are OK.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

32 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

These men are cowards, Jimmy.  

The whining the last couple days has been at levels not seen since the Dem persecution of donkey dong Doug, PJ, Squi and the rest of the handsy frat pack. 
 

Although can ya blame them? This was supposed to be dear leaders triumphant moment where he gives a SOTU amidst a unanimous Republican acquittal where the congress proves it’s worthless by bending the knee. 
 

Instead the Trumpkins are going crazy on the net, radio and Fox News because the only thing anyone will ever remember about dear leader donnies stupid speech was that Nancy ripped it up afterward, and the next day Mitt told the world what we all know, he’s guilty and the republicans/Trumpkins are too shitty people to care. 
 

Being a nihilist trumpkin must really suck. But I don’t feel sorry for them. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by JimmyJames

[Nivek 16949]

23 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sorry those kinds of lies are OK.  

You cannot even tell truth from a lie.  That is how deluded you are.   

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

You cannot even tell truth from a lie.  That is how deluded you are.   

Please show your work, cause I remember hearing, and seeing him make that comment several times.

Typical cabal comment >>>> "nuh uhh nuh uhh !!"  

Still waiting for the $2,500 back in my pocket for less expensive health care my family, and the rest of the nation were promised would be coming.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

7 hours ago, pacman said:

The very essence of our current government, talk shit but come up with nada.

It's a reality tv show. Perception is all that matters in a simulated reality. 

[Tuco 5077]

4 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

all their time and effort would have been better spent flipping state houses and focusing on the November election. 

What does that mean?  What actions do you think they should be doing that they are not doing already?    

Edited February 6, 2020 by Tuco

[Texas Jeff 1945]

8 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   

We are all one tiny little test away from having a pre-existing condition.  You go to the doctor, say hey what's up with this?  Doc orders a test.  You're fine but hey look we found this little thing...  Now you have a pre-existing condition and good luck getting insurance.

Lots of folks are walking around today with pre-existing conditions that are undiscovered.  And, when the condition is discovered, they will want treatment that covers it even though they have been paying less into the system for years.  Many of them have been getting a great deal on insurance for years because their condition was not known.

A younger me would have agreed with you, just pay for coverage for yourself depending on your situation.  I'm older now and I've seen enough surprises among friends and family to know that there are always issues lurking about, waiting to be discovered.  And you can't perfectly predict who will be affected or when it will happen.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

15 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

We are all one tiny little test away from having a pre-existing condition.  You go to the doctor, say hey what's up with this?  Doc orders a test.  You're fine but hey look we found this little thing...  Now you have a pre-existing condition and good luck getting insurance.

Lots of folks are walking around today with pre-existing conditions that are undiscovered.  And, when the condition is discovered, they will want treatment that covers it even though they have been paying less into the system for years.  Many of them have been getting a great deal on insurance for years because their condition was not known.

A younger me would have agreed with you, just pay for coverage for yourself depending on your situation.  I'm older now and I've seen enough surprises among friends and family to know that there are always issues lurking about, waiting to be discovered.  And you can't perfectly predict who will be affected or when it will happen.

 

All 50 states had provisions for preexisting conditions if you had insurance.  So long as there wasn’t a gap.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 hours ago, Burt said:

 

Yeah, but its not what he was originally investigated about.  He was investigated for something that may have happened before he was even president (Whitewater).  When that fell through, they pinned a blow job on him.  Very small potatoes, and, in my mind, insignificant.  Especially compared to this current shit show.

He lied under oath twice. And obstructed justice multiple times by influencing witnesses to submit false testimony under oath and false affidavits.  Those are each actual criminal acts.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

8 hours ago, bolverk said:

Agreed that the ACA didn't have sufficient cost control mechanisms, but premiums were already skyrocketing before its passage. That said, the rate of increase did slow somewhat, but it's entirely a joke to suggest that a noncompliant plan is a "good deal" so long as you don't get sick or injured, especially if you're already living on the margins.

Of course, your response would likely be: "Don't be a poor."

Sack O'Shit: "Human beings, you see, have no inherent value other than the money they earn. Cats have value, for example, because they provide pleasure to humans. But a deadbeat on welfare? Well, they have negative value. So, ipso facto, a rich man's death is more tragic than the death of a wasteling."

 

I have better coverage if I get sick or injured than an aca plan.  

[Dbeasy 15076]

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   
 
I get better coverage with a CIGNA ppo for about $1400 less a month in premiums with significantly lower deductibles and out of pockets.  And 3 doctor visits per year per person that aggregate for the family and rollover at no cost.  
 
All aca did and does was fuck over working people in employee plans who don’t have preexisting conditions to subsidize people who do.  And then of course subsidies for low income people.  
 
so yeah, people who already had insurance get to pay sky high premiums with the added bonus of their deductibles and out of pockets exploding due to them paying for other people’s risk pool.   Best of fucking both worlds.  Expensive insurance you can’t afford to use.  
 
there was no cost saving functions in Obamacare.  All it did was increase costs and redistribute wealth.  
 
you want to really save money? Investigate a non ACA compliant plan assuming your family is healthy. 

You’ve taken an incredibly selfish view on this topic with an incredible lack of empathy for people that have serious health issues. Insurance is meant to pool risks. Your arbitrary claim that sick people shouldn’t be in your pool is a flawed argument. I’m not a fan of ObamaCare either but your lack of empathy and selfish views are disgusting.

[Nivek 16949]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Please show your work, cause I remember hearing, and seeing him make that comment several times.

Typical cabal comment >>>> "nuh uhh nuh uhh !!"  

Still waiting for the $2,500 back in my pocket for less expensive health care my family, and the rest of the nation were promised would be coming.

You first. Where are the WMD's? Where is the trickle down economics v1.0, v2.0, v3.0?  I believe my health care is supposed to be cheaper according to your boy and cover more as well, $19 a year he said.  He won't golf he said.  Mexico is going to pay for the wall, he said.  Oil will pay for the war, the other one claimed.  The best wall, that gets taken out by wind?  Trade wars are easy.   Going to pay off the debt in 8 years, and yet it only seems to be getting larger?  And 17,000 other lies by this current clown.  

You know damn well you are lying about the $2500.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/27/jeb-bushs-incorrect-claim-about-a-silly-obama-health-care-promise/  But that is all you have.  So keep fucking that chicken.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

 

You’ve taken an incredibly selfish view on this topic with an incredible lack of empathy for people that have serious health issues. Insurance is meant to pool risks. Your arbitrary claim that sick people shouldn’t be in your pool is a flawed argument. I’m not a fan of ObamaCare either but your lack of empathy and selfish views are disgusting.

 

Insurance is shifting the risk of economic loss for a fee.  That’s all it is.  
Why in the world would I pay more for it than absolutely necessary?   I don’t live in a flood plane.  I pay a lot less for flood insurance than people who do.  
 

pre aca there were protections for people with preexisting conditions.  They had insurance and could keep it so long as there was no gap.  
 

what you couldn’t do is get insurance after your house burned down or your car crashed. 

[DDD Dad 14346]

I have better coverage if I get sick or injured than an aca plan.  

Congrats.

[David Dennison 18940]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Insurance is shifting the risk of economic loss for a fee.  That’s all it is.  
Why in the world would I pay more for it than absolutely necessary?   I don’t live in a flood plane.  I pay a lot less for flood insurance than people who do.  
 

pre aca there were protections for people with preexisting conditions.  They had insurance and could keep it so long as there was no gap.  
 

what you couldn’t do is get insurance after your house burned down or your car crashed. 

This is all a perfect description of why insurance has no place in health care.

[Js1 85451]

16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

You’ve taken an incredibly selfish view on this topic with an incredible lack of empathy for people that have serious health issues. Insurance is meant to pool risks. Your arbitrary claim that sick people shouldn’t be in your pool is a flawed argument. I’m not a fan of ObamaCare either but your lack of empathy and selfish views are disgusting.

 

For a political party who is huge fans of private insurance being adequate enough for our health insurance, they sure seem not to understand how it works. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is all a perfect description of why insurance has no place in health care.

That’s a position I can understand.  I disagree.  There should be insurance for most.  Most people should have catastrophic coverage and a prescription plan. And pay cash directly to provider at time of service.  Would save billions in bureaucracy and people would shop for best deals and self ration care.  And a government backstop for the rest.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

China bending the knee before Don MAGA. Cutting tariffs in half.  
 

Trump lied to me.  I’m not getting tired of the wins.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21208]

Isn't there a HC thread floating around here somewhere?

As for the trial, it was never going to go to removal.  I'm very  pleased that all these Rep traitors are on the record as being anti-American and pro-Russian.  History will not be kind. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by DigglerontheHoof

[David Dennison 18940]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

That’s a position I can understand.  I disagree.  There should be insurance for most.  Most people should have catastrophic coverage and a prescription plan. And pay cash directly to provider at time of service.  Would save billions in bureaucracy and people would shop for best deals and self ration care.  And a government backstop for the rest.  

Fine. Let's go back and do that for people 65 and over, too.

[David Dennison 18940]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

China bending the knee before Don MAGA. Cutting tariffs in half.  
 

Trump lied to me.  I’m not getting tired of the wins.  

Create a problem, then come up with half a solution to solve it. Very Trumpian.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Fine. Let's go back and do that for people 65 and over, too.

Fine with me. Would put a lot of money in my pocket getting rid of that payroll tax. 

[David Dennison 18940]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Fine with me. Would put a lot of money in my pocket getting rid of that payroll tax. 

Lolz. You are a clown.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Jobless claims down another 15,000 as well. Close to a 50 year low once again.

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/04c43a9...w-u.s.-jobless-claims-fall.html?.tsrc=applewf

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20466]

Edited February 6, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[David Dennison 18940]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jobless claims down another 15,000 as well. Close to a 50 year low once again.

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/04c43a9...w-u.s.-jobless-claims-fall.html?.tsrc=applewf

Keep that Obama economy rolling along.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

I’m not following. What would the logic be for a moderate/high earning healthy person purchasing insurance through an exchange?

Every state is different. NY, for example, still has its own exchange and has state law that mirrors the ACA somewhat. I imagine CA has something similar.  You can buy plans off the exchange, but they are identical, right down to having the same names, and you also don't get subsidies without the exchange even if you qualify for them. So the exchange remains the way to go here. There are other alternatives besides the open market and the exchange though. There are many orgs which allow small employers or freelancers to pool into one group and price group plans together. 

TX never ran its own exchange, and if IIRC, also shit down it's leg instead of taking some federal subsidies for low income people. 

Part of the reason for the high cost is that insurance still isn't truly portable across state lines. We have nearly maximized possible administrative costs. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[ndawg 1242]

Y’all gotta start recognizing when folks are arguing in bad faith.

If a Dem were president, none of these pro-Trump fascists would be arguing the economy is any good. They’d be arguing that the deficit is out of control, that the quality of jobs is declining, and that the next recession is going to be the Dem’s fault.

The only truly shocking thing I’ve read from any of them is just how many dumbass Cletuses Johnny must have unleashed on this world to stand to save over $1k a month on healthcare with one of those shitty non-ACA plans.

[Incredulity 11679]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Keep that Obama economy rolling along.

This quote in picture form

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

14 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Y’all gotta start recognizing when folks are arguing in bad faith.

If a Dem were president, none of these pro-Trump fascists would be arguing the economy is any good. They’d be arguing that the deficit is out of control, that the quality of jobs is declining, and that the next recession is going to be the Dem’s fault.

The only truly shocking thing I’ve read from any of them is just how many dumbass Cletuses Johnny must have unleashed on this world to stand to save over $1k a month on healthcare with one of those shitty non-ACA plans.

It’s better than an ACA plan.  Much better.  But stay ignorant.  

[ndawg 1242]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

It’s better than an ACA plan.  Much better.  But stay ignorant.  

I used to have one of those plans. Really glad I switched from it.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I used to have one of those plans. Really glad I switched from it.

You like paying a lot more for less coverage?

[Biff Tannen 45696]

Fucking christ, here we go!

[SquishMitten 10422]

You’ve taken an incredibly selfish view on this topic with an incredible lack of empathy for people that have serious health issues. Insurance is meant to pool risks. Your arbitrary claim that sick people shouldn’t be in your pool is a flawed argument. I’m not a fan of ObamaCare either but your lack of empathy and selfish views are disgusting.

It’s the R way. I get mine, screw everyone else. If I can’t get mine, as long as you’re also screwing everyone else, you can screw me just as hard.

[Chuckie Finster 22703]

Jesus Christ Johnny, take your discussion to the Healthcare thread.

[ndawg 1242]

3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

 

It’s the R way. I get mine, screw everyone else. If I can’t get mine, as long as you’re also screwing everyone else, you can screw me just as hard.

Bingo. R's are dumb enough to believe that not only will a serious health catastrophe will never happen to them, they think that even if it did, their insurance companies won't do everything they legally can to get off the hook. Like, underneath it all, I bet they think that megacorporations are their friends because the those megacorps buy the politicians they support.

It's the same as with the senate trial. They like the outcome, and can't see ahead to when those in power no longer need the rubes to maintain control.

Edited February 6, 2020 by ndawg

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13586]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I save probably $18k a year at a minimum because trump killed the inidvidual mandate. Because I can buy underwritten insurance for healthy people without preexisting conditions that is non aca compliant.   
 

I get better coverage with a CIGNA ppo for about $1400 less a month in premiums with significantly lower deductibles and out of pockets.  And 3 doctor visits per year per person that aggregate for the family and rollover at no cost.  
 

All aca did and does was fuck over working people in employee plans who don’t have preexisting conditions to subsidize people who do.  And then of course subsidies for low income people.  
 

so yeah, people who already had insurance get to pay sky high premiums with the added bonus of their deductibles and out of pockets exploding due to them paying for other people’s risk pool.   Best of fucking both worlds.  Expensive insurance you can’t afford to use.  
 

there was no cost saving functions in Obamacare.  All it did was increase costs and redistribute wealth.  
 

you want to really save money? Investigate a non ACA compliant plan assuming your family is healthy. 

Conservative using near meaningless personal anecdote as his go-to evidence, example one gazillion.

 

We've been through this before, but let's review again:

1. Obamacare gave the GOP virtually everything they claimed they wanted in the 1993 counterproposal to the Clinton Universal Healthcare Initiative when they were the roadblock to healthcare reform, including the individual mandate, an idea that came from the Heritage Foundation.

2. After blocking healthcare reform and controlling the House, Senate, and presidency for 4 of W's 8 years, the GOP proposed nothing.

3. The final version of the Obamacare bill contained 161 GOP amendments. The public option was removed. Despite this, the GOP pushed a narrative that the Dems railroaded Obamacare through Congress- a complete fucking lie.

4. The results of Obamacare have been a net positive for the country.

  a. Millions of more Americans insured

  b. Rate of healthcare costs slowed (moreso in states that took advantage of the Medicaid expansion provision).

  c. Medical bankruptcies cut in half

https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/22/affordable-care-act-controls-costs/

https://www.consumerreports.org/personal-bankruptcy/how-the-aca-drove-down-personal-bankruptcy/

5. The GOP House was found guilty in federal court of violating the law, defunding the risk corridors designed to foster competition, prevent provincial monopolies, and shield insurance companies from catastrophic losses in the first 3 years of entering a brand new market. They deliberately roiled the markets with uncertainty through endless threats and attempts of repeal, effectively cancelled a funding stream of the individual mandate (their own idea) through the courts, and generally done anything to tamp down the modest success of a law that's almost identical to what they were advocating years ago before they were apoplectic in opposition. They now are hilariously asking the Supreme Court to hold off on a decision on their own suit challenging the constitutionality of a law they claim is a self-evident disaster until after the election.

6. Like the first 4 years of W's term, and for the 2nd time the GOP controlled the House, Senate, and presidency, the GOP failed to put forth any plan of their own addressing healthcare reform in Trump's first 2 years.

 

[Biff Tannen 45696]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

We've been through this before, but let's review again:

[Rougarou 594]

Don't mind Johnny, he's just drunk is all.

I tell you boys even I'm worried when Johnny runs this outfit, God have mercy!

[David Dennison 18940]

38 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

This quote in picture form

 

Here's a question for all the true believers: In which of the following areas has the rate of growth slowed over the first three years of Donald Trump's presidency compared to the final three years of Obama?

a) The stock market,

b) GDP,

c) Employment,

d) All of the above

[Dbeasy 15076]

Insurance is shifting the risk of economic loss for a fee.  That’s all it is.  
Why in the world would I pay more for it than absolutely necessary?   I don’t live in a flood plane.  I pay a lot less for flood insurance than people who do.  
 
pre aca there were protections for people with preexisting conditions.  They had insurance and could keep it so long as there was no gap.  
 
what you couldn’t do is get insurance after your house burned down or your car crashed. 

You would and should pay more because the insurance industry is regulated for a reason, and that reason is to keep insurance companies from improperly offering insurance products that harmed a large number of Americans. It’s why this country has many regulations in many industries.

Under your argument, a furniture maker could produce furniture that killed children or car makers could make death traps. A Nobel Prize winning professor at UT puts it best. Some level of government regulations is required to reduce and avoid significant human suffering. You need to take a basic economics class. Flood is a whole different scenario. People make a choice to incur that risk. People don’t choose to have a pre-existing condition or want to get killed by a faulty car.

And on the topic of pre-existing conditions, you are wrong. For example, prior to ObamaCare the only way to get insurance coverage in Texas if you had certain pre-existing conditions was to go under a STATE run healthcare program.

[Incredulity 11679]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Here's a question for all the true believers: In which of the following areas has the rate of growth slowed over the first three years of Donald Trump's presidency compared to the final three years of Obama?

a) The stock market,

b) GDP,

c) Employment,

d) All of the above

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Insurance talk in the Senate Trial Topic not going away....

Now that the President is free to do as he pleases, this *reminder from Ms. Hill is appropriate now that Trump will be credentialing new Ambassadors today:
 

Quote

 

Fiona Hill, Trump’s former national security adviser for Europe and Russia, painted a similarly vivid picture of White House disarray. Testifying last fall, Hill said she was shocked to learn that Gordon Sondland, Trump’s ambassador to the European Union, was put in charge of Ukraine policy, an unusual portfolio for him since Ukraine is not part of the EU. She said he also didn't appear to be receiving the required briefings for meetings he was holding with key foreign leaders.

“It's like basically driving along with no guardrails and no GPS on an unfamiliar territory,” she said. Plus, Sondland was giving out his cell phone number – and hers – to foreign officials whose communications were vulnerable to Russian espionage. 

“We had all kinds of officials from (foreign governments) … literally appearing at the gates of the White House, calling on our personal phones,” she recounted. “I'd find endless messages from irate officials who'd been told that they were supposed to meet with me by Ambassador Sondland."

 

This is not over, not by a long shot. We had for a number of years, a robust layer of civil servants who protected our country from untoward sources and influences as much as they wee able. Now erryone open to the highest bidder.

*From USA Today:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/02/05/trump-acquitted-senate-impeachment-trial-heres-what-we-learned/2858160001/

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

You would and should pay more because the insurance industry is regulated for a reason, and that reason is to keep insurance companies from improperly offering insurance products that harmed a large number of Americans. It’s why this country has many regulations in many industries.

Under your argument, a furniture maker could produce furniture that killed children or car makers could make death traps. A Nobel Prize winning professor at UT puts it best. Some level of government regulations is required to reduce and avoid significant human suffering. You need to take a basic economics class. Flood is a whole different scenario. People make a choice to incur that risk. People don’t choose to have a pre-existing condition or want to get killed by a faulty car.

And on the topic of pre-existing conditions, you are wrong. For example, prior to ObamaCare the only way to get insurance coverage in Texas if you had certain pre-existing conditions was to go under a STATE run healthcare program.

 

That is not true.  HIPAA was passed in 1996.  Under HIPAA, if you switched jobs or take a new job that offers a group health plan, you couldn't be denied access to that healthcare plan just because you had a pre-existing condition. The new group plan could, however, exclude you from coverage for that particular pre-existing condition for up to 12 months. This is a compromise that HIPAA brought about. Before the law, the plan could just deny you coverage for that condition forever.  Moreover, so long as you had continuous coverage, HIPAA reduced or eliminated the 12 month exclusion period (meaning coverage that had breaks no longer than 63 days).