The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's the damned truth.  A sleazy, corrupt private citizen whose first answer to any question is "what's in it for me?"

mob-boss mentality.  deny everything, never apologize, challenge everyone, pay no one, sue everybody.  surround yourself with yes-men.  if anyone gets out of line, they get whacked.  

[TwiceHorn 31265]

2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

The people who care about this narrative were never going to be persuaded anyway.

Probably right.  But when people applaud Schiff for his lawyerly prowess, I think of both of these things and cluck.  Both were akin to making an opening statement where you can't deliver the evidence in support, ie really elementary blunders.

[Gil Bang 25897]

39 minutes ago, Blotto said:

So true. Setting aside any criminal prosecutions, as soon one of the GOP Senators strays from the pack, Trump will shit all over them and effectively end their career in the GOP, the party of Trump. They have no way forward in politics unless they continue stroking Trump's cock. If they had any concern for the well being of this country they would have ensured that Trump wasn't  the nominee in the first place. They are in it til the end, whatever that may be. The f'n spineless twats that remain would rather watch Trump shit all over the constitution and fleece the country than look for another gig. 

Not Mitt.

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

mob-boss mentality.  deny everything, never apologize, challenge everyone, pay no one, sue everybody.  surround yourself with yes-men.  if anyone gets out of line, they get whacked.  

Anytime anyone accuses you of a crime, accuse them for the same crime. 

[Gil Bang 25897]

Graham wants to blow "Shifty" Schiff

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Anytime anyone accuses you of a crime, accuse them for the same crime. 

You’re a towel

[DDD Dad 14251]

You’re a towel

You called?

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Joe Biden should be jumping at the opportunity to testify in this thing. 

Yep. And let the republican turds call hunter as well to further cement their legacy in history as complete shitheads.

[otisdog 365]

If  I may travel back a couple of pages and ask a question about the electoral college....the discussion inspired me to go to the '270 to win' website, where I saw both Maine and Nebraska had a striped graphic, and notes that explain that these states have 'split electoral votes' with state and district votes coming into play. How does that work, and why are these two state different from the rest?  Thanks 

 

[TexasEd 8064]

20 minutes ago, otisdog said:

If  I may travel back a couple of pages and ask a question about the electoral college....the discussion inspired me to go to the '270 to win' website, where I saw both Maine and Nebraska had a striped graphic, and notes that explain that these states have 'split electoral votes' with state and district votes coming into play. How does that work, and why are these two state different from the rest?  Thanks 

 

The other states are all or none.

The effect is that states like Texas that go 55-45 Republican get skipped in the presidential election visits except to raise money because the outcome is a foregone conclusion.  

[Born to Run 6565]

 
No offense meant to you for arriving late. It's not something a rational person should easily believe. When the evidence gathers before your eyes, it is, indeed, alarming, my friend.
As it sinks in that the thing is far worse than you comprehend now, it goes from alarming to depressing to absurd to the realization that it's a whole different game.
On top of your own realization weighing upon you, you get to watch all of this through the media who is behind your own pace of perception. They yuck it up as they share inside insights about partisanship that are naive and hopelessly dated. They're witnesses to a huge story of the death of a republic, but they can't see it. They're intellectually limited and lazy.
It's all so painfully obvious, but the most important people refuse to believe their eyes.

Nice take and I agree. NPR MSM etc reporting on all this is maddening.

It comes across as " we have live footage of Donald Trump shooting someone on 5th Ave, he just confessed and we have the gun;. What do you think the president meant to say with this shooting/ what is being said around Washington? "

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

Graham wants to blow "Shifty" Schiff
 
 

Graham has aged 30 years since Trump was elected.

[Gil Bang 25897]

Graham wants to "gum" Shifty Schiff?

[TDunk 590]

5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Graham has aged 30 years since Trump was elected.

Fucking "LED" light bulbs be damned.  

Edited January 23, 2020 by TDunk
"For Gil"

[Born to Run 6565]

yeah, my understanding in regards to emoluments is that there is some precedent-setting case already out there, and they just don't see the use in throwing more shit on the pile.
one of the more underrated criminal acts of this administration is the outright abuse of the judicial system.  tax returns?  go to court.  evidence?  go to court.  witnesses?  go to court.  court's taking too long?  oh well lol.  
the most transparent president.  ever. 

It's like a bunch of chucklefuck honkeys renacting Goodfellas. " Fuck you I'll sue you; don't like I'll sue you!!"

[Born to Run 6565]

one of my college professors had been a lower-level Nixon staffer.  
He once talked about Nixon's trip to China.  Several weeks before the trip, the staff prepared a 1000 page briefing book for Nixon.  Within a few days, Nixon returned it to the staff, with margin notes on most of the pages. 

True. I kinda hate that fucker a lot but his house in San Clemente is sweet as fuck and he actually read things; I'd pay money for that asshole to replace Dotus.

some real dumb fucks have followed Nixon. If anything his HOF stock keeps rising and at the rate we are going Tricky Dick might make the cut over W or Dotus

[TwiceHorn 31265]

42 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

The other states are all or none.

The effect is that states like Texas that go 55-45 Republican get skipped in the presidential election visits except to raise money because the outcome is a foregone conclusion.  

Just like states can decide on most things election-related, cf. Bush v. Gore, a state may decide how to allocate its electoral votes.  So, some states vote them proportionally to the popular vote, others give them all to the winner, no matter how slim the majority.  Most are the latter and that's a further distortion to the popular vote.

[RPM 26215]

2 hours ago, pacman said:

I laugh every time Trump apologists say the Democrats decided to impeach Trump when he was elected.

TBH, I said he'd do something to get impeached before he was elected. My Trumpkin friends laughed. I take no pride in being correct.

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Graham has aged 30 years since Trump was elected.

Blackmail will do that to a guy. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

This needs more play and more pressure. Regarding that phone call in September with Zelensky. The aid was released on September 12, IIRC. Pence met with Zelensky on Sept 1 in Warsaw. Prior to leaving, Jennifer Williams, in her testimony, said:
 

Quote

 

MS WILLIAMS: It may have even been that Saturday, either August 30th on 31st.

THE CHAIRMAN: So August 30th on 31st was when Senator Johnson was trying to reach the Vice President?

MS. WILLIAMS: My understanding from Senator Johnson's staff was that the Senator was looking to have a phone call with the Vice President, either before the Vice President went to Warsaw to talk about Ukraine on, if that wasn't possible, possibly night after the Vice President had met with Zelensky that Sunday because Senator Johnson was traveling out to Kyiv the following week. And so, it would be an opportunity for them to compare notes and for the Vice President to convey what he had heard from Zelensky before SenatorJohnson saw Zelensky.

 

The public needs to know, but we never will. Hate Fox with their mute. Hate the corrupt senators and a big F U to Senators Cruz and Cornyn.

[Fozzz 152]

lmao what a fucking clown 

 

[Captainant 27442]

29 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lmao what a fucking clown 

 

That's literally the point of NATO lol. What's your point? That the US shouldn't aid allies in conflict with our adversaries who are trying to forcefully annex portions of a sovereign state for the first time since WWII?

[horn4life 3755]

So another day of Republican Senators pretending to listen, obvious facts presented and dismissed as meaningless because of a singular reason, an (R) behind the name.  I guess the only thing I can take heart in is that if the shoe was on the other foot the Dems would break the ice and defect in support of honesty and fairness. The big question for 2020 is going to be do young people and non-whites show up to the polls?  Will the uneducated whites keep have a huge turnout in support of Trump and shore up underwater Senatorial polling? A landslide in November, is becoming a distinct possibility, and the reason is the clear unfairness and rigged nature of the Senate trial. 

Here is a Pew Research snapshot of where things stand right now. https://www.people-press.org/2020/01/22/by-a-narrow-margin-americans-say-senate-trial-should-result-in-trumps-removal/  When the GOP votes straight down party lines to prevent a single piece of subpoenaed information from being allowed to be presented in a "trail?" Corruption will be what the image of the GOP will become to the majority of the country.

White educated women are gone for the GOP this cycle. That's not gonna change, just differ by how strong a tilt to the Dems. But the key is that right now people under 30 believe by a 63% -35% that Donald Trump should be removed from office.  WITHOUT any witnesses or facts presented voluntarily by the white house. These are the widest numbers by a large, large margin demographically against Trump and these are the voters of the future. When the GOP closes ranks and protects Trump from a fair trial these numbers will permanently transfer to the GOP.  These numbers are BEFORE the "trial" actually began.

Trump was NEVER going to be removed from office. What is happening now is that the Republican Party is cementing the view in the minds of educated and young voters in particular that they are corrupt.  Purely and completely corrupt.  Now this is not to say that a solid 41-43 percent of all voters think the GOP should prevent even a single scrap of paper be presented by the Trump administration in this "trial."  It's easy to see the corruption if you don't purposefully blind yourself.  I believe that a majority of Americans still have a sense of need for fairness.  I also have always felt that if the DEMs framed the trail as a fight for fairness and search for truth it would be a hard narrative to counter for the GOP.  One more day we are going to see a simply plea to find the truth.  In two days the argument will be, Trump should not be required to do anything but what he wants to do. The GOP will stand firmly behind this assertion and Moscow Mitch will have presided over a perfect Soviet style "trial."  Of course facts will trickle out over the Summer and Fall showing the clear fraud, and Trump's guilt will only become more, not less apparent.

And 2020 will be a wipeout. As the tilt from the educated whites, the young, and the non-white will surge a few percent.  And that solid Trump 43% will see it coming in the Fall and Republican enthusiasm will wane.  More importantly the young people of our Nation will view themselves for years as anything but Republican.

Edited January 23, 2020 by horn4life

[bernorange 8348]

Apologies if this has already been discussed as I'm just skimming this thread periodically and not reading every page, much less every post, but it appears that Schiff may have fucked up. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/schiff-may-have-mischaracterized-parnas-evidence-documents-show/ar-BBZchl2?ocid=st2

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by bernorange

[Captainant 27442]

1 minute ago, bernorange said:

Apologies if this has already been discussed as I'm just skimming this thread periodically and not reading every page, much less every post, but it appears that Schiff may have fucked up. 

https://us24news.com/blog/2020/01/22/adam-schiff-caught-fabricating-evidence-in-huge-blow-to-democrats-in-senate-impeachment-trial/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/24-news/

Of course a propaganda outlet is going to throw stones at Schiff. It's their job.

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's literally the point of NATO lol. What's your point? That the US shouldn't aid allies in conflict with our adversaries who are trying to forcefully annex portions of a sovereign state for the first time since WWII?

So it's your belief that if we weren't arming Nazis in Ukraine we would be fighting the Russians in North America?  That doesn't sound insane at all to you? lol.

[Captainant 27442]

Just now, Fozzz said:

So it's your belief that if we weren't arming Nazis in Ukraine we would be fighting the Russians in North America?  That doesn't sound insane at all to you? lol.

What in tarnation? Arming nazis in ukraine? Are you just throwing unsubstantiated conspiracy theories out there now?

[bernorange 8348]

I edited my post to include the link to the primary source.  Sorry about that.  Is Politico/MSN also a propaganda outlet?  (the answer is yes, but not in the same sense that you meant it)

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What in tarnation? Arming nazis in ukraine? Are you just throwing unsubstantiated conspiracy theories out there now?

Try googling the pro-Nazi Azov Battalion.  

[Captainant 27442]

22 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I edited my post to include the link to the primary source.  Sorry about that.  Is Politico/MSN also a propaganda outlet?  (the answer is yes, but not in the same sense that you meant it)

You don't appear to have included any link to a source. The tweet you linked with a link to politico inside of it has no references to nazis. You're just throwing unsubstantiated shit out and hoping people will believe you sight unseen.

Reply to this post with your sources. I'm not googling your shitty conspiracy theories for you.

EDIT: just realized I was responding to bernorange thinking he was fozz. My bad. However, that all could be cleared up if the GOP would allow evidence in their trial.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Captainant

[TXSG8R 3360]

10 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Try googling the pro-Nazi Azov Battalion.  

ok

Quote

The Special Operations Detachment "Azov", often known as Azov Battalion, Azov Regiment, or Azov Detachment, (Ukrainian: Полк Азов) is a Ukrainian National Guard regiment,^[1][2][3][4] based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region.^[5] It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014.^[3] Initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis, on 12 November 2014, Azov was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine.^[6] All regiment members were contract soldiers serving in the National Guard of Ukraine.^[7]

Since its inception, the regiment lost 43 soldiers in the course of the War in Donbass.^[8] In 2014, it gained notoriety after allegations emerged of torture and war crimes, as well as neo-Nazi sympathies and usage of associated symbols by the regiment itself, as seen in their logo featuring the Wolfsangel, one of the original symbols used by the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich. Representatives of the Azov Battalion claim that the symbol is an abbreviation for the slogan Ідея Нації (Ukrainian for "National Idea") and deny connection with Nazism.^[9] In 2014, a spokesman for the regiment claimed around 10-20% of the unit were neo-Nazis.^[10] In 2018, a provision in an appropriations bill passed by the U.S. Congress blocked military aid to Azov on the grounds of its white supremacist ideology.^[11] Members of the regiment come from 22 countries and are of various backgrounds including Jews.^[12][13]

More than half of the regiment's members speak Russian and come from eastern Ukraine,^[14] including cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.^[15] The regiment's first commander was far-right nationalist Andriy Biletsky, who led the neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly and Patriot of Ukraine.^[16][17] In its early days, Azov was the Ministry of Internal Affairs' special police company, led by Volodymyr Shpara, the leader of the Vasylkiv, Kiev, branch of Patriot of Ukraine and Right Sector.^[18][19][20] Under the "Azov" umbrella were also created the non-governmental organization "Azov Civil Corps" and the political party National Corps.^[21]

And this is funny.

Quote

The Ukrainian military decided to turn all volunteer battalions into regular military units for internal policy reasons. The Ukrainian government has opted to deploy only volunteer units to the Donbass front.^[56]

AKA, we are going to throw our untrained stuff up front to soak up bullets.  Congrats nazis, you go first.  

Edited January 23, 2020 by TXSG8R

[Fozzz 152]

4 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

ok

 

lol members of Azov have bragged about receiving arms and being trained by the US in the past and that legislation has no real enforcement mechanism to ensure that such support comes to a stop.  

Quote

But the highly problematic truth is that the U.S. currently has no real way of ensuring that members of neo-Nazi groups like the Azov Battalion are not being trained by U.S. forces, because most, if not all, have not committed a “gross human rights violation.” Even more difficult to determine is whether ex-U.S. military are training crypto-Nazis in a private capacity, and the issues speaks volumes about the complexities that have to be confronted by the United States in its efforts to help Ukraine defend itself from the Russian-supported secessionists.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Sgt. Ivan Kharkiv of the Azov battalion talks about his battalion’s experience with U.S. trainers and U.S. volunteers quite fondly, even mentioning U.S. volunteers engineers and medics that are still currently assisting them. He also talks about the significant and active support from the Ukrainian diaspora in the U.S. As for the training they have and continue to receive from numerous foreign armed forces. Kharkiv says “We must take knowledge from all armies… We pay for our mistakes with our lives.”

Those U.S. officials involved in the vetting process obviously have instructions to say that U.S. forces are not training the Azov Battalion as such. They also say that Azov members are screened out, yet no one seems to know precisely how that’s done. In fact, given the way the Ukrainian government operates, it’s almost impossible.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

[Judge Roybeanbag 11807]

19 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I edited my post to include the link to the primary source.  Sorry about that.  Is Politico/MSN also a propaganda outlet?  (the answer is yes, but not in the same sense that you meant it)

Well regardless, it could all be cleared right up if Parnas were allowed to testify, right?

[bernorange 8348]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You don't appear to have included any link to a source. The tweet you linked with a link to politico inside of it has no references to nazis. You're just throwing unsubstantiated shit out and hoping people will believe you sight unseen.

Reply to this post with your sources. I'm not googling your shitty conspiracy theories for you.

What the fuck are you on about?  You seem to be confusing my post with some others.  I didn't link any tweets.  What "unsubstantiated shit" am I throwing?  Are you going to eat crow when you sober up from your bender and stop your ad hominem crusade?

Oh, and here's the link (again), since scrolling up and re-reading my initial post is hard:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/schiff-may-have-mischaracterized-parnas-evidence-documents-show/ar-BBZchl2?ocid=st2

Edited January 23, 2020 by bernorange

[TXSG8R 3360]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol members of Azov have bragged about receiving arms and being trained by the US in the past and that legislation has no real enforcement mechanism to ensure that such support comes to a stop.  

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

Quote

In 2018, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a provision blocking any training of Azov members by American forces, citing its neo-Nazi background. In previous years, between 2014 and 2017, the U.S. House of Representatives passed amendments banning support of Azov, but due to pressure from the Pentagon, the amendments were quietly lifted.

Quote

On 26 June 2015, the Canadian defence minister declared as well, that training by Canadian forces or support would not be provided to Azov.

 

[Captainant 27442]

15 minutes ago, bernorange said:

What the fuck are you on about?  You seem to be confusing my post with some others.  I didn't link any tweets.  What "unsubstantiated shit" am I throwing?  Are you going to eat crow when you sober up from your bender and stop your ad hominem crusade?

Oh, and here's the link (again), since scrolling up and re-reading my initial post is hard:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/schiff-may-have-mischaracterized-parnas-evidence-documents-show/ar-BBZchl2?ocid=st2

Mea culpa, I confused your post for fozz's since you were posting a propaganda outlet as an authoritative source.. I edited my post accordingly. Hard to keep track of all the bad faith attacks against the impeachment prosecution.

So, you're saying the dems don't have complete evidence and the proceedings should include further evidence to establish a factual basis? I agree! 

Say, how do you feel about the president's staff lying repeatedly during their opening statements?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Captainant

[bernorange 8348]

Just now, Captainant said:

Mea culpa, I confused your post for fozz's. I edited my post accordingly. Hard to keep track of all the bad faith attacks against the impeachment prosecution.

So, you're saying the dems don't have complete evidence and the proceedings should include further evidence to establish a factual basis? I agree! 

Say, how do you feel about the president's staff lying repeatedly during their opening statements?

1. I appreciate the acknowledgement that you fucked up.

2. You mention "bad faith attacks" sandwiched between several ad hominem attacks and a fabricated assertion which you attributed to me.  Look in a mirror some time.

3. I didn't actually post any value judgement at all other than Schiff fucked up.  I didn't make any claims about the significance or irrelevance of the act.

Unlike most peeps here on Surly, I actually think the chances for the Senate to convict Trump and remove him from office is possible.  Schiff making errors like the one mentioned won't help that outcome though.

[TXSG8R 3360]

11 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol members of Azov have bragged about receiving arms and being trained by the US in the past and that legislation has no real enforcement mechanism to ensure that such support comes to a stop.  

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

From your link.

Quote

But the highly problematic truth is that the U.S. currently has no real way of ensuring that members of neo-Nazi groups like the Azov Battalion are not being trained by U.S. forces, because most, if not all, have not committed a “gross human rights violation.” Even more difficult to determine is whether ex-U.S. military are training crypto-Nazis in a private capacity, and the issues speaks volumes about the complexities that have to be confronted by the United States in its efforts to help Ukraine defend itself from the Russian-supported secessionists.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Sgt. Ivan Kharkiv of the Azov battalion talks about his battalion’s experience with U.S. trainers and U.S. volunteers quite fondly, even mentioning U.S. volunteers engineers and medics that are still currently assisting them. He also talks about the significant and active support from the Ukrainian diaspora in the U.S. As for the training they have and continue to receive from numerous foreign armed forces. Kharkiv says “We must take knowledge from all armies… We pay for our mistakes with our lives.”

Pretty sure first bold ties into the second, because AFAIK, we have no one operating in or near their active front.  What we have over there are largely training and logistical personnel.  

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/27/heres-the-us-military-footprint-in-the-black-sea-region/

Quote

The Azov Battalion not only answers directly to the Ministry of Interior, but it is ingrained deeply in that structure. The founder and head of Azov, Andriy Biletsky works closely with the Ukrainian Ministry of Interior and as the BBC reported last year, “The Azov Battalion was formed and armed by Ukraine’s interior ministry.”

Biletsky claims, however, that his battalion hasn’t been trained by the U.S. military. In a comment to The Daily Beast, he said: “No, American army representatives do not train and had never trained the battalion. What I know so far is that there are regular training of the Ukrainian armed forces and Azov has nothing to do with it.”

The rest of the article basically asks how the US can stop an Azov guy from sneaking into training.  None of the article mentions arming the Azov battalion (your original point), all of it boils down to some guys possibly sneaking training by hiding among the national guard units being trained in bulk.  

[TwiceHorn 31265]

Ultimately, I don't think it makes any difference, but again Schiff being sloppy at a time when precision and understatement is the order of the day.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11807]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ultimately, I don't think it makes any difference, but again Schiff being sloppy at a time when precision and understatement is the order of the day.

Maybe, but it feels like arguing about whether the toilet paper roll is hanging the right way, while the kids are shitting all over the bath mat.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ultimately, I don't think it makes any difference, but again Schiff being sloppy at a time when precision and understatement is the order of the day.

As it turns out, people make mistakes.  It was a mistake.  Sure, the Republicans will run with it, but in point of fact their opening statements were riddled with lies, not mistakes, lies.  The Democrats need to arm themselves to combat the inevitable.

[TXSG8R 3360]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ultimately, I don't think it makes any difference, but again Schiff being sloppy at a time when precision and understatement is the order of the day.

Its hard to expect perfection when you're presenting for 24 hours.  The Rs would find things to harumph about regardless.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

As it turns out, people make mistakes.  It was a mistake.  Sure, the Republicans will run with it, but in point of fact their opening statements were riddled with lies, not mistakes, lies.  The Democrats need to arm themselves to combat the inevitable.

 

6 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Its hard to expect perfection when you're presenting for 24 hours.  The Rs would find things to harumph about regardless.  

Yes to both. The wonderfully incorrect placard the minority House members had during the Inquiry probably didn't  make the record, though. But, in the grand scheme of things Schiff is at least trying to have something in the records that will show an attempt to stop the regime. Until the Archives gets ahold of it.

[Fozzz 152]

10 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

From your link.

Pretty sure first bold ties into the second, because AFAIK, we have no one operating in or near their active front.  What we have over there are largely training and logistical personnel.  

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/27/heres-the-us-military-footprint-in-the-black-sea-region/

The rest of the article basically asks how the US can stop an Azov guy from sneaking into training.  None of the article mentions arming the Azov battalion (your original point), all of it boils down to some guys possibly sneaking training by hiding among the national guard units being trained in bulk.  

lol so it's perfectly fine for us to be training and providing logistical support to neo-nazis?  You act like Azov is some rouge group when it's run by Ukraine's Interior Minister and is incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard. Of course they are going to receive training and the Leahy vetting process is not intended to screen-out the majority of their membership.

Also, the fact that Azov has received US weapons through the US embassy is not a secret.

Quote

A shipment of 100 PSRL-1 systems reportedly arrived in Ukraine in April 2017, as confirmed by both the contract leaked by Southfront and Ukrainian journalist Yury Butusov. According to a Facebook post by Butusov, many of these 100 PSRL-1 systems were sent to military units in the Donbas, including military unit 3057 based in Mariupol—more widely known as the unit made up of soldiers from the “Azov Battalion,” the notorious detachment that has been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.
Butusov identified the Azov Battalion as a recipient of the PSRL-1 systems. On July 10, 2017, the Azov Battalion was introduced to the new weapons, as their press service stated that they would “soon” receive the grenade launchers.

 

Quote

Two weeks ago, Voice of America spoke with the CEO of AirTronic in Texas, who described how the manufacturer is “continuing deliveries” to Ukraine up to the current moment in “very close coordination with the U.S. Embassy, with the U.S. State Department, with the U.S. Pentagon and with the Ukrainian government.”

 https://medium.com/dfrlab/american-lethal-weapons-could-already-be-on-the-ukrainian-front-line-9dc6fd98630d

[Captainant 27442]

Fozz, quit derailing this thread with your conspiracy theory whose only piece of evidence is being unable to prove a negative. 

[Fozzz 152]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Fozz, quit derailing this thread with your conspiracy theory whose only piece of evidence is being unable to prove a negative. 

If the US arming of neonazis is simply a conspiracy theory without any substance, then why did Ro Khanna fight for those amendments to begin with?  

[hayden_horn 11360]

anyways, i mean, it's whatever, republicans:

i think the reason that the % of republicans wanting witnesses is so high is because they want hunter biden, joe biden, and adam schiff to testify. maybe the whistleblower too. 

i think the republicans might be hoisting themselves up by their own petard.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

If the US arming of neonazis is simply a conspiracy theory without any substance, then why did Ro Khanna fight for those amendments to begin with?  

WTF does any of this have to do with the Senate trial of Donald J. Trump?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Someone challenge Trump on Twitter:

LET THEM SPEAK!

READ THE DOCUMENTS!!

FLUSH TRUMP TEN TIMES!!

 

Edit: Left one out

Edited January 23, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
Addition

[Biff Tannen 45491]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i think the reason that the % of republicans wanting witnesses is so high is because they want hunter biden, joe biden, and adam schiff to testify. maybe the whistleblower too. 

I suspect you are correct and it's fucking pathetic.