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The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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I would be worried about the Bolton Trap. 

Get the trial done. If there needs to be another investigation, so be it. But don't go in blind with Bolton. Know what he is going to say - if you rely on him at all. I wouldn't after the mess he and his neocon friends sold the country on with the war with Iraq. He is not a friend of Democrats in the Senate based on his past conflict with them. 

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TexArcher
TexArcher

Of course we're not getting witnesses and of course Trump is getting acquitted.  This was only going to end one way. Schiff was brilliant.  And none of the people who needed to hear it did.

Zavala
Zavala

DAMN YOU RUSSIA!

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Blotto

Blotto 23498

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4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I would be worried about the Bolton Trap. 

Get the trial done. If there needs to be another investigation, so be it. But don't go in blind with Bolton. Know what he is going to say - if you rely on him at all. I wouldn't after the mess he and his neocon friends sold the country on with the war with Iraq. He is not a friend of Democrats in the Senate based on his past conflict with them. 

Yeah, something about this feels off. But the whole goddamn political universe is spinning off its axis, so what the hell do I know. 

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5793

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27 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I would be worried about the Bolton Trap. 

Get the trial done. If there needs to be another investigation, so be it. But don't go in blind with Bolton. Know what he is going to say - if you rely on him at all. I wouldn't after the mess he and his neocon friends sold the country on with the war with Iraq. He is not a friend of Democrats in the Senate based on his past conflict with them. 

Yeah, but Bolton didn't want this information to get out, the White House leaked it. Wait, what 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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9 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Yeah, something about this feels off. But the whole goddamn political universe is spinning off its axis, so what the hell do I know. 

I don't know either, but remember Bolton was in the Drain the Swamp boat with Trump. And the defense has always been this was impeachment created by a Swamp coup attempt. Bolton knows that narrative. I would be wary.

Bolton is in the back protecting Trump's backside. And remember Bolton brought on Fleitz - the guy dedicated to draining the IC swamp, and also the guy who called shenanigans on the Ukraine whistleblower as part of a greater conspiracy in the IC community.  

https://www.lifezette.com/2019/09/whistleblower-cia-had-help/

That is a huge red flag that Bolton may come in and say - Trump shouldn't have done that, but all the things he HAS done has been "great" for the country. Stretch out this trial and Trump will use it as a campaigning event for 2020. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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How about have Bolton just testify to the truth.  In a narrow sense, that's all we should care about here.  Someone's lying their asses off.  Let's get it right. Cool?

This neocon stuff you're bringing up in this matter is like your FISA slant on the other thread.  It's as if you discovered an old house was ablaze with a family inside as you walked by on the sidewalk, and your first thought was to run call an electrician to suggest they check for knob and tube wiring in the attic.

***

 

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washparkhorn

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1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

How about have Bolton just testify to the truth.  In a narrow sense, that's all we should care about here.  Someone's lying their asses off.  Let's get it right. Cool?

This neocon stuff you're bringing up in this matter is like your FISA slant on the other thread.  It's as if you discovered an old house was ablaze with a family inside as you walked by on the sidewalk, and your first thought was to run call an electrician to suggest they check for knob and tube wiring in the attic.

Some of us know the arsonists better than you when said the Neocons would be frogmarched out of the Bush II White House. They weren't. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

ok you need a 24-hour break from “neocon”. 

and “neoliberal”, while we’re at it.  

Do you want definitions? Words have meanings.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp

What Is Neoliberalism? 

Neoliberalism is a policy model—bridging politics, social studies, and economics—that seeks to transfer control of economic factors to the private sector from the public sector. It tends towards free-market capitalism and away from government spending, regulation, and public ownership.

Definition of neoconservative

1: a former liberal espousing political conservatism

2: a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and U.S. national interest in international affairs including through military means

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neoconservative

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

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Pure speculation but if Bolton is implying that Yovanovich was pushed for removal because of business interests of Rudy’s clients, is it really hard to believe that Rudy isn’t somehow kicking back some funds to trump? That would be a natural instinct for trump to want a piece of the pie so why would we think he wouldn’t demand it?

Important to remember that there are zero witnesses to trump and Rudy’s conversations. Mulvaney always leaves the room.

at some point in the future I guarantee that some offshore company of eric or don jr will he discovered.

edit: it will be late but hopefully some future administration will fully investigate the trump WH. Even if people are dead and/or have pardons, the truth needs to be revealed.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pure speculation but if Bolton is implying that Yovanovich was pushed for removal because of business interests of Rudy’s clients, is it really hard to believe that Rudy isn’t somehow kicking back some funds to trump? That would be a natural instinct for trump to want a piece of the pie so why would we think he wouldn’t demand it?

Important to remember that there are zero witnesses to trump and Rudy’s conversations. Mulvaney always leaves the room.

at some point in the future I guarantee that some offshore company of eric or don jr will he discovered.

edit: it will be late but hopefully some future administration will fully investigate the trump WH. Even if people are dead and/or have pardons, the truth needs to be revealed.

I wouldn't be surprised at all regarding an investigation discovering that the Trump children/Kushner were able to profit from the LNG or were stalled in their attempt due to the revelations. I wouldn't be surprised if there were attempts by sharks circling in the waters prior to the current Administration as well. The Harry Sargeant types, friends of Perry (that is ALWAYS how he rolls) that were dealing with a Democratic Administration but not gaining any traction as well as the Russian interests. When you have the corruption already in place as a feature, the destabilization is what they take advantage of to make their move. The Trump Family Syndicate took it to another level with a many pronged front all over the globe.

Bolton I view as a live hand grenade and be careful before one pulls the pin. A grenade is rather indiscriminate as to where the pieces go. He has never given any indication that he is helpful toward the Inquiry. He seems rather self-promoting and self-sustaining just from my shallow observation. He also appears to have an ego rather as outsized as the President so who knows. But I would view him as a Trojan Horse that may or may not be friendly with Mr. Toad...Barr.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

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While I hope that at least 4 gop senators call for witnesses, it would be glorious if it was a 50-50 tie AND Roberts breaks the tie by asking for witnesses.  Trump would explode.

and btw, it shouldn’t be just up to 4 gop senators that want some questions answered.  It should be 53.  Not too mention that the senate appears to be treating the Clinton impeachment trial as the guide including direct testimony from 3 people. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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13 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

[GOP]Bolton is a lying, leftist, liberal hack who can't be trusted on at all. We can't believe we ever listened to him on anything. All he cares about is making money.  He is fake news.[/GOP]

 

 

 

Like clockwork, Chapter 2:

 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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5 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

And all I am saying is find out what he will say before he testifies. Bolton and his buddies understand the game. 

There's no legitimate reason why a book that is being vetted for publication can't be reviewed by the Gang of Eight.  

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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1 minute ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

why is triple assuming if Bolton testifies he will tell the truth?  Have we not learned anything about this admin?

Can't answer for Triple, but to a segment of our population, he will be lying even if he tells the truth.

Not a defender of Bolton or his ideologies, but at this point, what is his incentive to lie, other than to possibly get rid of Trump (and that is even a stretch given the Senate GOP).

And there's this.  Nice title (thanks Hamilton!) and imagery on the cover:

EPQjnVnWAAEGAeB?format=jpg&name=large

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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A comment on polling: 

The most anti-impeachment poll is the Wapo/ABC poll that indicates 45% pro-removal/51% anti-removal of registered voters.  Of all adults, that tightens to 47%/49%.  

But, as with most of these polls, the impeachment still looks favorable to the Dems overall:

Do you approve of the House vote to impeach Trump: 52 yes/46 no (registered voters) 

Do you approve of the way Trump is handling the impeachment: 42 yes/ 48 no (registered voters) 

Do you think the Senate should call new witnesses: 65 yes/29 no (registered voters) 

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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32 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

why is triple assuming if Bolton testifies he will tell the truth?  Have we not learned anything about this admin?

I want the floodgates to open.  Figure it out as the water recedes.  Also there's jokes about Senate GOP brows being furrowed above, but there is a difference between knowing you're perping a coverup versus perping while knowing that the general public is about to become very aware of it.  GOP Senate may out-furrow anyone, but they do not want to be in the latter category. at all.

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6th Street

6th Street 6392

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2 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

I want the floodgates to open.  Figure it out as the water recedes.  Also there's jokes about Senate GOP brows being furrowed above, but there is a difference between knowing you're perping a coverup versus perping while knowing that the general public is about to become very aware of it.  GOP Senate may out-furrow anyone, but they do not want to be in the latter category. at all.

Let me point you to the age old Costanza quote: "It's not a lie if you believe it"

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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21 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Let me point you to the age old Costanza quote: "It's not a lie if you believe it"

There's truth in that jest, but see the previous rat and boa analogy I used regarding Pelosi's approach.  Given evidence to the contrary, a lie in isolation is a lot easier to believe than a continuous train of lies.  The continuous train of lies erodes under constant attack until you reach the proverbial tipping point.  The House understands this.  It's probably part of the reason they didn't impeach with everything they had including Mueller report, emoluments, etc.  Instead it's going to be a slow sustained squeeze, and GOP Senate suddenly has an ankle in a coil.

 

Re Boltons' notes: I think I read somewhere that whatever notes Bolton took with him after he left the WH staff are not covered by Executive Privilege.  House might want to take a look at those. Wait, did Schiff just say something about notes ?

 

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heso

heso 2794

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57 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

 

That seems to be why it’s so important to get the senate trial over and done with as quickly as possible without Bolton testifying. 

During the house investigation: “what’s the rush?” Fight the subpoenas in court. Delay delay delay, in hopes that it drags on until they can run out the clock before the election. 

Then they get the draft of the book and realize Bolton could blow the whole thing up. The message changes to “why is Nancy holding up the senate trial? We need to get this over and done with ASAP.”

then Mitch coordinates with the WH to rush through the trial as quickly as possible without witnesses before what’s in Bolton’s can be leaked out. 

the GOP PR machine would have no trouble deflecting the noise if Bolton’s book contents came out after the acquittal. But it becoming public before, or worse yet, right now, puts them in a bind to vote to acquit with no witnesses while this is live in the news cycle. 

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heso

heso 2794

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10 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Programming note:

 

He has to tweet about it because the ratings of his defense  vs the prosecution’s ratings matter. 

Hannity spent a segment of his show talking about how low the ratings for the prosecution were and how terrible the production was. “These are the people that brought you the wizard of oz and they couldn’t make it more interesting than droning on and on like that?”

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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On 1/25/2020 at 12:46 PM, Bruh Man said:

It's a cloudy 55 degree day in D.C. Nobody on the left thought it was a good idea to take a break from tweeting and organize a march today?

This is a good question. My guess, in short, is that everyone is busy.  

My wife is an activist, so that makes me an activist once removed.  She spends quite a few nights and weekends doing research, meeting with fellow activists. I just lift heavy shit when she needs me to.  A year ago, the focus was generally on postcard parties, protests/marches/rallies, that kind of stuff to put pressure on elected officials.  But we are now less than 10 months away from the (ever-cliche, but actually true) most important election in our lifetime.  Anyone* who has the passion, talent, and time to focus on things like marches, is currently running for office, or working on a campaign.  Most of our political efforts are geared to supporting one of the Democratic candidates in the NE-2 Congressional race.  But, yesterday afternoon, we spent a couple of hours knocking doors for a state senator candidate who is running against a Republican, which was part of action one of her activist groups is planning on doing once a month.  I look around at the other activists in my community, and it's pretty much the same story, and I think it can be extrapolated to most activists across the nation.  

Marches are cool.  I don't want to diminish their importance in any way.  Going to the first Women's March in DC was one of the most inspirational things I have ever done, and it happened at a time I needed that inspiration. But marches don't change legislation, vote to remove Presidents for corruption, or release brown kids from cages.  And, much to my disappointment, they haven't resulted in the pressure to get the elected officials to do those things. We need to vote them out.  We need to elect good people to do good things. Certainly there will continue to be marches, planned with adequate time so you can work the effort around commitments.  But the focus is going to be on the elections. Planning a march on short notice is a major effort, that just can't be worked around other things. 

*Footnote on "Anyone" - it's obviously not everyone.  There are people with the passion, talent, and time, that just don't know what the first step is.  There are people reading this post who could plan a march.  My wife was not an activist until Trump was elected.  She had to learn, experiment, and struggle to figure it out.  And she did.  There are resources that can help with Indivisible.org and/or MoveOn.org.  

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heso

heso 2794

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12 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

There has to be a significant segment of the Republican population, especially politicians, that absolutely despise trump and everything that he his. But because the base has made him their god, they have to tread very carefully about where they put their votes. If they wholesale abandon Trump, the doom themselves. But they can’t enjoy seeing what he’s doing to the country.

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